RAPTURE, PRE OR POST?
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If your spirit is not in the Light, where is it? Isn't it in the darkness? The darkness described by revelations where there is no light from the moon or the sun or the stars...
If your spirit is in this darkness, wouldn't you say that was some pretty great Tribulation? I would. Is there greater Tribulation than being separated from God?
Revelation 12:10-11
10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
This is now, right now. By the Blood of the Lamb and the word of your testimony you are drawn to the Light.
When was the accuser of our brethren cast down?
Colossians 2:14-15
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Right there. Right at the Cross.
Hallelujah
We are more than Conquerors in Him!!
stand fast ,,,they who will take you before the kings and the synagogs,,,,,,,,,,,they do not understand,,,stand fast,,for the lords names sake,,,it is all that will make them understand,,,,,,,what is my life worth if i will not lay it down for the testimony?,,,,,,,,suffer it,suffer the loss,,,,,,,speak the Gospel,,,you were born on the cross at Calvary you will not die the second death,,,,,,,,,suffer it,,,,,
P
Thanks for replying and keeping this conversation nice.
If there is no great tribulation for 3 ½ years in the end, then could you explain this.
Jesus said
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time.
And when we go to the book of Daniel we see for the first time the abomination of desolation Daniel 9:27.
It just happens that it’s in the middle of the last 7 years, thus making the great tribulation 3 ½ years.
And could you explain this.
The two end time witnesses preach for 3 ½ years/1260 days, then are resurrected from the dead, in the clouds, at the sound of the last trumpet, after hearing the voice saying come up hither.
If there is no great tribulation for 3 ½ years in the end, then could you explain this.
Jesus said
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time.
And when we go to the book of Daniel we see for the first time the abomination of desolation Daniel 9:27.
It just happens that it’s in the middle of the last 7 years, thus making the great tribulation 3 ½ years.
And could you explain this.
The two end time witnesses preach for 3 ½ years/1260 days, then are resurrected from the dead, in the clouds, at the sound of the last trumpet, after hearing the voice saying come up hither.
John 5:28,29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good (the just) unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil (the unjust), unto the resurrection of damnation.
Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.
That's why the gathering together is totally different - Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years THEN v5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
In Christ. . . .
Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.
That's why the gathering together is totally different - Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years THEN v5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
In Christ. . . .
No, I'm sorry. I'm still just a little one in the spirit. Lots of things are still a mystery to me.
Although if you look out into the world you can see lots of abomination. You can see lots of tribulation.
Wherever God's Truth is not allowed would be to me an abomination of desolation.
Years, and weeks, and times, and half a time. I haven't really gotten into all that. It seems that when men think they know what it is they end up looking foolish. Like that guy that said the rapture was going to be in october, then he changed it to march.
peter the"bride" her name is changed at the time of her marriage,,,,,,,,,,the son is named after the father,,,,,,,,,so the fathers name is the same as the son,,,,,,,,and the brides name is then the sons at the marriage,,,,,,,,"she has the fathers name write in her forehead",,,,,,the name that only he he will give,,,,,"his fathers name",,,,,,the bloodline rev 19;12-,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the name you ask for is the opposite if this"Isiah 62;2",,,,,rev.3;12,,,,rev,11-16,,,,,,,,,,,it is not the name of the father,,,,,,,,it is everyone else s name,,,,,,,,,,do you have a pin number in your forhead that represents your name?????????
P
1Cor 7:15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it israised in incorruption:
corruption is raised in incorruption: that puts the resurrection at the gathering/rapture
John 2:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the
resurrection at the last day.
And that puts the resurrection at the last day.
The two end time witnesses are resurrected from the dead when the seventh angel sounds, the last trumpet sounds.
That puts the resurrection at the end of the tribulation at the last day. there should be time no longer
Rv10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
The second resurrection is after the 1000s years
corruption is raised in incorruption: that puts the resurrection at the gathering/rapture
John 2:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the
resurrection at the last day.
And that puts the resurrection at the last day.
The two end time witnesses are resurrected from the dead when the seventh angel sounds, the last trumpet sounds.
That puts the resurrection at the end of the tribulation at the last day. there should be time no longer
Rv10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
The second resurrection is after the 1000s years
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That is an excellent point. In the United States if you don't have a Social Security number you pretty much don't exist. This number everyone has memorized. You need this number to get a drivers license, a bank account, a credit card or any credit for that matter.
You can't even get a job in the US without a SS#. You can't file your taxes without it. The govt. gets real grumpy if you don't file your taxes...
I've never thought of it like that before. Thats a lot to think about...
First I want to thank you for carrying on a decent conversation whether we agree or disagree; it is nice to be able to compare differences without hostility. 
The word of God shows that the return of Christ (parousia) has two parts. The first part is his coming for his church (in the air), the body of Christ (Thessalonians & 1 Corinthians) - At that time the dead in Christ will be raised incorruptible and the living in Christ will put on immortality. The second part of the return of Christ (parousia) is Christ coming with his church of the body upon the earth. During this period, called apokalupsis (revelation, revealing, making manifest, unveiling) occur the resurrections of the just and the unjust (the rest of the dead).
In Christ. . . .
The word of God shows that the return of Christ (parousia) has two parts. The first part is his coming for his church (in the air), the body of Christ (Thessalonians & 1 Corinthians) - At that time the dead in Christ will be raised incorruptible and the living in Christ will put on immortality. The second part of the return of Christ (parousia) is Christ coming with his church of the body upon the earth. During this period, called apokalupsis (revelation, revealing, making manifest, unveiling) occur the resurrections of the just and the unjust (the rest of the dead).
In Christ. . . .
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Whenever you get a new job, move to a different state, file your taxes, get or change your medical insurance, apply for credit, get a bank account.
If you wish to sell items to the public you must have a federal ID#. This number is either your SS# or a number directly linked to your SS#.
Interesting, wouldn't you say? I haven't even studied into this yet. This is just what I know off the top of my head. I'm sure there is much more...
P
Yes I agree. Sorry if I put you in the same pot with some of the others pre-tribulation teaching Christians.
I have to remember Gods word, and treat you as an innocent pre-tribulation teaching Christians, until your doctrine has been exposed. And then you come under the category of rebuke.
Ezekiel Chapter 33:7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked [man], thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
All that makes three resurrections not two, and we know there are only two resurrections not three.
The first resurrection we shall rule and reign with Christ a thousand years.
Rv20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. That’s the second resurrection
6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power
Yes two parts as far as I can see.
Jesus comes and gets us, and we meet him in the air, at the last trumpet in the clouds after the voice of the ark angel, this is the first resurrection.
And we are at the marriage supper of the lamb, and then God pours out his wrath upon the men that have the mark of the beast.
Rv15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
There we are standing on the sea of glass after getting the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark.
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
And we are at the marriage supper of the lamb, and then the vials/wrath of God is poured out upon the men with the mark of the beast.
Rv16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and [upon] them which worshipped his image.10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
And on the six vial/wrath the wicked gather together gather to the battle of that great day of God Almighty, And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
And then we return with Christ to make war, and rule and reign with Christ a thousand years.
Thus a two part coming.
Rv19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
<< Matthew 20 >>
King James Version
1For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. 2And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. 5Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. 6And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? 7They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
8So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. 9And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. 10But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. 11And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, 12Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. 13But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? 14Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. 15Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? 16So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
17And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, 18Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, 19And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.
20Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him. 21And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. 22But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. 23And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
24And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren. 25But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
29And as they departed from Jericho, a great multitude followed him. 30And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou Son of David. 31And the multitude rebuked them, because they should hold their peace: but they cried the more, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou Son of David. 32And Jesus stood still, and called them, and said, What will ye that I shall do unto you? 33They say unto him, Lord, that our eyes may be opened. 34So Jesus had compassion on them, and touched their eyes: and immediately their eyes received sight, and they followed him.
King James Version
1For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. 2And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. 5Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. 6And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? 7They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
8So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. 9And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. 10But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. 11And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, 12Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. 13But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? 14Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. 15Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? 16So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
17And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, 18Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, 19And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.
20Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him. 21And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. 22But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. 23And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
24And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren. 25But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
29And as they departed from Jericho, a great multitude followed him. 30And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou Son of David. 31And the multitude rebuked them, because they should hold their peace: but they cried the more, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou Son of David. 32And Jesus stood still, and called them, and said, What will ye that I shall do unto you? 33They say unto him, Lord, that our eyes may be opened. 34So Jesus had compassion on them, and touched their eyes: and immediately their eyes received sight, and they followed him.
I don't think the the SS# comes anywhere close to what you are looking for. It isn't stamped on our head, it doesn't spread throughout the world. And it most cases you are told to keep it secret.
Identification numbers doesn't mean that you are subject to the mark of the beast. It means you are subject to an identification number.
Identification numbers doesn't mean that you are subject to the mark of the beast. It means you are subject to an identification number.
P
No that’s not right.
Nowhere in Rev, or the book of Daniel, or anywhere else in the Bible as it ever said, the first part of the 7 years, there is 3 ½ years of peace.
Just because the Antichrist comes peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries it doesn’t mean there will be peace for the first part of the 7 years.
Daniel 11:21And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
before the tribulation starts, Jesus called it the beginning of sorrows.
Matt24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
There will be wars and rumours of wars, nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
They will deliver you up to be afflicted,
And shall deliver you up to councils
And brother shall betray the brother to death
Mark 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death,
All this is the beginning of sorrows.
Then after that Jesus goes on to say concerning the tribulation
Matt24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Nowhere in Rev, or the book of Daniel, or anywhere else in the Bible as it ever said, the first part of the 7 years, there is 3 ½ years of peace.
Just because the Antichrist comes peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries it doesn’t mean there will be peace for the first part of the 7 years.
Daniel 11:21And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
before the tribulation starts, Jesus called it the beginning of sorrows.
Matt24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
There will be wars and rumours of wars, nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
They will deliver you up to be afflicted,
And shall deliver you up to councils
And brother shall betray the brother to death
Mark 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death,
All this is the beginning of sorrows.
Then after that Jesus goes on to say concerning the tribulation
Matt24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.