RAPTURE, PRE OR POST?

[Grandpa]

Wow, did you get a body like unto Jesus’s new body?

I don’t know about you, but I am getting a body fashioned like unto his glorious body.

But if you got your body already then good look with that.


Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.



Not sure what you are getting at, but I think you are saying that the resurrection is already past.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

I think you are trying to overthrow the faith of some with your nonsense doctrine .

I didn't say it was already past. I said the Kingdom of God is now. The Resurrection is Now. Right Now.

The Dead is made alive. Right NOW.

1 Corinthians 15


42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


The truth of the word is Right Now. Being Born again of the Spirit is Right Now.

 

[Grandpa]

Peter, brother you're wasting your time with these few people. They are not interested in the truth of the word.

Says who?

You...

 

[Grandpa]

1 John 4
4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10Herein is love, not that we loved God , but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

 

[Grandpa]

Matt 24:29-34
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The Words of Jesus Christ. This generation (whom He was speaking to in ~33 A.D.) shall not pass till ALL these things be fulfilled.

Thats the "great Tribulation" you speak of.

 

[Grandpa]

Matthew 24:37-39
37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

If the whole world has the bible and all they have to do is look up into the sky to tell when the "great Tribulation" is, how is it going to be a surprise to everyone except a few???

That's because the whole world is looking with their carnal eyes and using their carnal mind.

This is spiritually discerned. You won't see it with your carnal eyes. You won't understand it with your carnal mind.

 

[Grandpa]

Matthew 24:48-51
48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Don't think this is a future thing. The resurrection is happening now. The Lord is not delaying His coming.
The Kingdom of God is at Hand. Right Now.

 

[peterT]

If you've been saved then your new body has already been resurrected.

There's no future resurrection. The resurrection is right now.

You haven’t go your new body yet

Do you still go to the toilet?

Do you still break out in pimples/zits?

Do you go to the doctor when you are sick?

Do you feel pane?

Do you still shed a tear?

Do you still recognise that you are naked; like when Adam and eve bit the apple?

I can’t see how you think you have been raised in incorruption and have your new bobby already.

The carnal mind is enmity against God; what’s not still corrupt about that?

Your doctrine is full of holes; what’s not still corrupt about that?

You still go to the toilet; what’s not still corrupt about that?

Sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

Your new body has already been resurrected, I think NOT.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews, had a hard time getting his head around that saying, and it look you have the same problem.

Romans8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

 

[peterT]

Peter, brother you're wasting your time with these few people. They are not interested in the truth of the word.

Probably not Avinu, but I am trying to look at the big pitcher, somebody must be listening, somebody must interested in the word of the Lord.

love you and yours

 

[peterT]

I am not responsible for anyone's faith in God - they either have faith or not. If by saying that I believe born again believers don't go through the tribulation I shake that person's faith - their weakness is not my fault!

Your comments remind me of these verses


1 Samuel 2:3 Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the LORD [is] a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.


John10:10: 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.


Your comments don’t sound like you would lay down your live for the brethren

 

[Red33]

Your comments remind me of these verses


1 Samuel 2:3 Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the LORD [is] a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.


John10:10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.


Your comments don’t sound like you would lay down your live for the brethren

To lay your life down you can't count your life dear to yourself and that includes any contrived intellectual self knowledge of the scriptures you might have that puffs up through a spirit of pride. To lay your life down in the love of God you have to leave it in that humble position of being laid down and wait for God to raise it up so that the flesh is not involved and God gets the glory. Self knowledge is a contrived attempt to get understanding and reveal the knowledge of God that can only be acquired in Christ through the humility of faith.

The plan and will of God for the church is contained in the mystery of Christ and the church. The Spirit reveals the word and knowledge of that mystery to the heart of the believer that has been hid in God. When we were placed in Christ at salvation we were hid with Christ in God, and in that hiding place we receive the things of God that pertain to Christ and the church. Now if you want the verses for this I can give them to you but they will just go right over your head because they must be spiritually discerned through grace and knowledge of Christ and not through the self-knowledge of contrived intellectualism that has nothing to do with the mind of Christ.

 

[loveme1]

Matthew 24:48-51
48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Don't think this is a future thing. The resurrection is happening now. The Lord is not delaying His coming.
The Kingdom of God is at Hand. Right Now.

Are you saying that you think we are living in the Kingdom of Yahweh?
It is a future day, when the harvest will gather good crop from this world...

You seem to bypass much scripture to allow your idea to stand true in your mind.

"Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of' Judgement" Matthew 12:36. "He that rejecteth me and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him. The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day" John 12:48.

15 The Lord will come with fire. He will ride on the wings of a storm to punish those he is angry with. 16 By fire and sword he will punish all the people of the world whom he finds guilty-and many will be put to death. 17 The Lord says, ... 24 ... "The worms that eat them will never die, and the fire that burns them will never be put out. The sight of them will be disgusting to all people."


We are set free by accepting Salvation and await the Judgement day, as though we were prisoners, that just got told they can go home soon.

Our heart and soul will remain full of love, and forever grateful.

We will correct those speaking against the truth, and use the Bible and Holy spirit to point others into the direction of Salvation.

This is not the Kingdom of Yahweh Almighty God, and scripture really does correct your idea....

 

[enochson]

I didn't say it was already past. I said the Kingdom of God is now. The Resurrection is Now. Right Now.

The Dead is made alive. Right NOW.

1 Corinthians 15


42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


The truth of the word is Right Now. Being Born again of the Spirit is Right Now.

Preach it brother the Lord God of the here and now and not of pie in the sky.

 

[enochson]

Are you saying that you think we are living in the Kingdom of Yahweh?
It is a future day, when the harvest will gather good crop from this world...

You seem to bypass much scripture to allow your idea to stand true in your mind.

"Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of' Judgement" Matthew 12:36. "He that rejecteth me and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him. The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day" John 12:48.

15 The Lord will come with fire. He will ride on the wings of a storm to punish those he is angry with. 16 By fire and sword he will punish all the people of the world whom he finds guilty-and many will be put to death. 17 The Lord says, ... 24 ... "The worms that eat them will never die, and the fire that burns them will never be put out. The sight of them will be disgusting to all people."


We are set free by accepting Salvation and await the Judgement day, as though we were prisoners, that just got told they can go home soon.

Our heart and soul will remain full of love, and forever grateful.

We will correct those speaking against the truth, and use the Bible and Holy spirit to point others into the direction of Salvation.

This is not the Kingdom of Yahweh Almighty God, and scripture really does correct your idea....

And what does man think happean on the day he was awaken by God. Please tell if you where not cut to the heart and felt like a A-O before the glory of that day awaken you to the glory that god had done?

 

[2knowhim]

Religion will always put off things to a future coming.
And miss what they could be having now.

Just like the Religious did in The Lord's Day.

How much more could He do? He gave His Life for us, so that we could have peace, and joy unspeakable.

When they read the book of Revelation, they Don't see Blessings and the Finished Work, but destruction, and Death, I'm sick of it too.

I'm in agreement with Grandpa, every born again person should have experienced The Rapture already,
They should have been caught up already and seated in the heavenlies In Christ.

YOU SHOULD KNOW WHO THE MAN OF SIN IS, AND WHO THE SON OF PERDITION IS.
AND THAT HE'S NOT TO COME..........BUT HE IS WITHIN YOU!

WHAT COULD THE LORD POSSIBLY DO MORE, THAN WHAT HE HAS ALREADY DONE.

 

[loveme1]

And what does man think happean on the day he was awaken by God. Please tell if you where not cut to the heart and felt like a A-O before the glory of that day awaken you to the glory that god had done?

So where is the Judgement day for those that do not accept Salvation?

Yes i know the glory, and i also know that from the start to the end, we have been working toward Great tribulation end times.... The Bible is clear.


But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before. 26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Scripture speaks for itself.

 

[loveme1]

Religion will always put off things to a future coming.
And miss what they could be having now.

Just like the Religious did in The Lord's Day.

How much more could He do? He gave His Life for us, so that we could have peace, and joy unspeakable.

When they read the book of Revelation, they Don't see Blessings and the Finished Work, but destruction, and Death, I'm sick of it too.

I'm in agreement with Grandpa, every born again person should have experienced The Rapture already,
They should have been caught up already and seated in the heavenlies In Christ.

YOU SHOULD KNOW WHO THE MAN OF SIN IS, AND WHO THE SON OF PERDITION IS.
AND THAT HE'S NOT TO COME..........BUT HE IS WITHIN YOU!

WHAT COULD THE LORD POSSIBLY DO MORE, THAN WHAT HE HAS ALREADY DONE.

Where have you people found this teaching, is it from that book you quoted in another post?

Who cares if you are sick of it, Almighty Yahweh is long suffering and he does things his way not yours or mine.

When i read revelation, i see the end result of mans wicked ways, and how salvation is through Yeshua son Almighty Yahweh God.

He is within you yes in spirit, but he also will return for all those with the spirit within them.....

How these people twist scripture to lead people away is sickening..

 

[2knowhim]

Where have you people found this teaching, is it from that book you quoted in another post?

Who cares if you are sick of it, Almighty Yahweh is long suffering and he does things his way not yours or mine.

When i read revelation, i see the end result of mans wicked ways, and how salvation is through Yeshua son Almighty Yahweh God.

He is within you yes in spirit, but he also will return for all those with the spirit within them.....

How these people twist scripture to lead people away is sickening..

This teaching is in The Spirit of Truth.
Why do you expect Him to return again?
What is it that you expect Him to do that He hasn't done?

Or is it because of YOUR incompleteness in Him now?

 

[loveme1]

This teaching is in The Spirit of Truth.
Why do you expect Him to return again?
What is it that you expect Him to do that He hasn't done?

Or is it because of YOUR incompleteness in Him now?

Answer to all above, is because the Bible says so...................

You really have twisted scripture, or someone did..........

You accept he was the Sacrifice for our sin, but you deny his return?

I can't get my head round your mentality of scripture, you accept the sacrifice part, you accept sin...

Then you deny his return.

And that all must accept salvation, to overcome evil?

You have sent me in a spin.............

Someone took much time and effort to write the book that supports this.

 

[2knowhim]

Answer to all above, is because the Bible says so...................

You really have twisted scripture, or someone did..........

You accept he was the Sacrifice for our sin, but you deny his return?

I can't get my head round your mentality of scripture, you accept the sacrifice part, you accept sin...

Then you deny his return.

And that all must accept salvation, to overcome evil?

You have sent me in a spin.............

Someone took much time and effort to write the book that supports this.

We live by the same Spirit that wrote the book.

I do not deny His coming, for me He has returned and for many who looked for Him a second time
unto our Salvation.

I suppose you still do need to look for Him further, for He must appear unto us to Salvation without sin.

For many of us this has happened.

 

[loveme1]

Maybe we are talking about a different person?

I am of Almighty Yahweh God and Yeshua is my saviour.
And I am born of the Holy spirit, and he will return.

Maybe that is where we differ...

Free will must be observed so, peace be with you and may your find the truth.