Misunderstanding of Hell

[Tombo]

Fair enough , Tom. But I believe that we CAN really not truly KNOW what will happen to unbelievers' souls when they die, thetefore, I do not want to greatly err thinking doctrine is saying one thing when it could indeed not be saying what I think it says at all. God does not want us to.be false teachers.

God will punish false teachers, forget being lucky and getting to wait until you die for that judgment, you will get God's wrath and rage on Earth

God bless you, too, Tom, i pray your zeal to rescue people with this 'punishment and destroying of souls' doctrine understanding does not cause God to deal with you harshly, because, I truly believe He could because you are lessening the motivation of people to stay moral .

And, 2knowHim's belief of 'a Loving God won't send ANYONE to Hades' is even more the doctrine that will
(Not 'can') make believers think doing sinful things now is fine , and, that will unleash God's wrath on that kind of great stumbling of believers.

My beliefs of teaching wrong doctrine. But will this kind of doctrine teaching cause your soul to go to Hades?
I am not Judge, but, as I feel, 2knowhim, tombo, others 'beliefs of hell state, i feel they are saying them.out of personal understanding which is ignorance and God will open the Truth up to you for this 'Paul' persecution of others.

God forbid that I base my conclusions on what I "feel" instead of what God's word says. I have shown many verses throughout this thread about the contrast betwwen eternal lie and death.
Let's just go through 1st John for a bit:

1st John 2:17 "And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever."
Does this verse say the wicked abide forever? No.

1st John 2:25 "And this is the promisse that He made to us---eternal life."
This verse is speaking of believers given the promise of eternal life. If the condemned go on forever in torment, they too would have eternal life. But the Bible never says that. It always speaks of eternal life as a gift from God to the saved.

1st John 3:13-15 "Do not be surprised, brothers, that the world hates you. We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."
If no murderer has eternal life abiding in him, how can he go on forever being punished??? That would be eternal life too.

1st John 5:11-13 "Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life."
Again, the clear contrast between having eternal life and not having eternal life. John doesn't mention anything in this letter (or in his gospel account) about the unsaved having eternal life, or of being punished forever. Because to be able to be punished forever would mean that they too (the unsaved) would have to have eternal life.

This is not something I hold to because I just want to. And the argument that eliminating the teaching of everlasting punishment we will lesson the motivation of people to stay moral is false. Believers want to obey God out of gratitude for His great love towards us, not because of hell, because we've already seen that believers are given eteranl life that they can never lose. And unbelievers have heard the teaching of everlasting punishment in hell for two thousand years and that never stopped them from sinning.
I hope I've helped you to see it more clearly.
God bless!!!!

Tom

 

[2knowhim]

God forbid that I base my conclusions on what I "feel" instead of what God's word says. I have shown many verses throughout this thread about the contrast betwwen eternal lie and death.
Let's just go through 1st John for a bit:

1st John 2:17 "And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever."
Does this verse say the wicked abide forever? No. No, it says:1Jn 2:15 Love not ye the world, nor the things in the world; if any one doth love the world, the love of the Father is not in him,
1Jn 2:16 because all that is in the world--the desire of the flesh, and the desire of the eyes, and the ostentation of the life--is not of the Father, but of the world,

The things of The World that people love is passing away, not the people. In fact it says nothing about the wicked, you have added that, just because these things are not of the Father, is no sign that the people who are loving them are Wicked. And All of us have had our time in this world loving the same things.

A proper translation will reveal much. 1Jn 2:17 and the world doth pass away, and the desire of it, and he who is doing the will of God, he doth remain--to the age.

This causes many to misinterpret scripture, Not knowing that Eternal is only used when speaking of God or His Power. But when it refers to us, it never says Eternal Life, or Eternal Death. So in this you do err.


1st John 2:25 "And this is the promisse that He made to us---eternal life."
This verse is speaking of believers given the promise of eternal life. If the condemned go on forever in torment, they too would have eternal life. But the Bible never says that. It always speaks of eternal life as a gift from God to the saved. Ok, this I agree with in part, there is no such thing as Eternal torment.

Let's see how this scripture is properly translated:1Jn 2:25 and this is the promise that He did promise us--the life the age-during.

Notice again it is Age during, Life, it has to do with time, the present physical world we live in, now.

1st John 3:13-15 "Do not be surprised, brothers, that the world hates you. We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."
If no murderer has eternal life abiding in him, how can he go on forever being punished??? That would be eternal life too. That is true. 1Jn 3:14 we--we have known that we have passed out of the death to the life, because we love the brethren; he who is not loving the brother doth remain in the death.
1Jn 3:15 Every one who is hating his brother--a man-killer he is, and ye have known that no man-killer hath life age-during in him remaining,
1Jn 3:16 in this we have known the love, because he for us his life did lay down, and we ought for the brethren the lives to lay down;

Why does John say we have known? Because we have been Quickened, made alive in Christ, they have not, in this John is stating a fact.
Again here he is talking about this present life, this age we live in.


1st John 5:11-13 "Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life."
Again, the clear contrast between having eternal life and not having eternal life. John doesn't mention anything in this letter (or in his gospel account) about the unsaved having eternal life, or of being punished forever. Because to be able to be punished forever would mean that they too (the unsaved) would have to have eternal life. Agreed, but he is still talking about in this present age, the physical world we live in.

1Jn 5:11 and this is the testimony, that life age-during did God give to us, and this--the life--is in His Son;
1Jn 5:12 he who is having the Son, hath the life; he who is not having the Son of God--the life he hath not.
1Jn 5:13 These things I did write to you who are believing in the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that life ye have age-during, and that ye may believe in the name of the Son of God.

Again this life is IN His Son. And there are those who do not have this Life. IN this Age.
This is not something I hold to because I just want to. And the argument that eliminating the teaching of everlasting punishment we will lesson the motivation of people to stay moral is false. Believers want to obey God out of gratitude for His great love towards us, not because of hell, because we've already seen that believers are given eteranl life that they can never lose. And unbelievers have heard the teaching of everlasting punishment in hell for two thousand years and that never stopped them from sinning. In this I totally agree, it has not change anything, why because they have not been granted repentance unto the acknowledging of the Truth, they may have heard, but do not have The Power of The Holy Spirit to keep them.
I hope I've helped you to see it more clearly.
God bless!!!!

Tom

Ok, I think even you can see that it is important to study the Greek and Hebrew words, they change a lot. Does it have to do with our believing unto Salvation? No. But if your going to teach doctrine, it does.

On another note, it is also error to teach that if someone does not receive Salvation in this age and perish, that all hope is lost for them, and that the Judgments that is to come upon them at the time appointed, is to Annihilation either.

A close examination of the scriptures concerning the Lake of Fire will show how careful The Holy Spirit was to make a distinction of who is tormented in that fire from age to age, day and night, and who it is that will experience The Second Death.

Rev 20:10 and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night--to the ages of the ages.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them;
Rev 20:12 and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls--according to their works;
Rev 20:13 and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works;
Rev 20:14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;
Rev 20:15 and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.


Notice, it is The Devil, The False Prophet, and The Beast, these are the ones (entities) that will be Tormented from age to age, again present world tense. There is also no mention of a Second Death for them.

But from vs. 11-15 These are the ones that will experience The Second Death, Which in laymen's terms
means they will die the same death as we have, Through the Cross, Through The Christ, Through the baptism of Fire, Through the same WAY as we have. It is The death of The old man, The man of sin, The son that perisheth, son of perdition as it is known in the KJV.

Point blank it is The Nature of The firstborn Adam. It is SELF, Soulish, Earthy.

For our God is a Consuming Fire, and He does Purge, and Refine.

1Co 15:26 the last enemy is done away--death; (This is not the Death of the physical body, This is The Death of Death, the Death of Self, The first Adam, so the All in Christ, The Last Adam
Shall be made Alive, Quickened the same as you and me.)
1Co 15:27 for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, it is evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him,
1Co 15:28 and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.

When he says All things will be made "Subject to Him" Look at what it means.

hupotassō
hoop-ot-as'-so
From G5259 and G5021; to subordinate; reflexively to obey: - be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.


The same as you and I are, Through the Working by which He is also able to Subdue All things unto Himself.

Tom, Go beyond the book you read that brought you out of the Eternal torment Doctrine, and Go further with it. And you will see That God will Be All in All as the scriptures Declare.


God Bless you

 

[Tombo]

2kowhim, I'm sad to say that you don't know Him at all. All I can do is pray for your salvation. It's clear that you are not of God or you would not contine to hold and propagate these unbiblical teachings. I just feel bad for anyone that is being sucked into your schemes. But God knows His own and will reveal His truth to them.
You are taken captive by satan to do his will. I pray that God has mercy on you and leads you to the truth, and the path of life through Christ. It's clear that I (and many others here) cannot convince you from God's word of your heresy.
It makes me sad to see you answer anyones posts on these forums because I know you will spew the same poison.
I warn everyone here to stay clear of this woman. She will only lead you to confusion and heresy.


Tom

 

[Israel]

2kowhim, I'm sad to say that you don't know Him at all. All I can do is pray for your salvation. It's clear that you are not of God or you would not contine to hold and propagate these unbiblical teachings. I just feel bad for anyone that is being sucked into your schemes. But God knows His own and will reveal His truth to them.
You are taken captive by satan to do his will. I pray that God has mercy on you and leads you to the truth, and the path of life through Christ. It's clear that I (and many others here) cannot convince you from God's word of your heresy.
It makes me sad to see you answer anyones posts on these forums because I know you will spew the same poison.
I warn everyone here to stay clear of this woman. She will only lead you to confusion and heresy.


Tom

You outta be ashamed of yourself! Listen to the darkness in your heart as you make your bed with death. Out of your own quoted verses you stated that he who does not love abides in DEATH! How DARE you spew such evil and spirits of uncleanness and think that you are doing God's work!

You and anyone who thinks this way can really frustrate me at times reading all of the confusion and contradictions YOUR WAY OF THINKING has gotten the world. No wonder they laugh and make fool of the name of our Father! Thousands of years later and christians are STILL devouring one another on things as eating pork and going to church on sunday. I say to you that the end of all these things is death!

Beloved.... ALL of you! Please understand that since you claim you see, you yet remain blind. We all know. Some have more knowledge than others. But knowledge puffs up. I have a nice thick strong's concordance. I was excited to finally look up words in greek or hebrew, but of a truth when He was first revealed to me I never used it again.

From then I knew that the bible was an excellent tool for learning of Him, but that is not what saved me. No no no. What is in me something that lives in a book! We can quote verses all day long but that does not edify. You can quote as many verses as you would like about those who sin and do not believe and how they will never inherit eternal life, but I ask: of what sin(s) will you die for!? Or have your bible and your law NOTconcluded that NO flesh and blood shall inherit the kingdom? But I ask you of which is greater, the law, or the LAWGIVER?

I see Him when I look at my wife or my kids. I see Him when I look at my mother and my father. Surely they do things I'm not fond of but I forgive them. I love them, they are a part of ME! I see Him at the job or out in the streets. How could I not! They are my brothers and sisters. I love them, they are a part of me.

How do I know this? Because as surely as I will die, they will too!

You who would be a man of God, I ask you what IS the purpose of an unclean vessel? For aren't these the same people you see doomed?

 

[Israel]

Sorry I meant that He does NOT live in a book! I didn't beat the editing time I guess.

 

[GreenNnice]

You outta be ashamed of yourself! Listen to the darkness in your heart as you make your bed with death. Out of your own quoted verses you stated that he who does not love abides in DEATH! How DARE you spew such evil and spirits of uncleanness and think that you are doing God's work!

You and anyone who thinks this way can really frustrate me at times reading all of the confusion and contradictions YOUR WAY OF THINKING has gotten the world. No wonder they laugh and make fool of the name of our Father! Thousands of years later and christians are STILL devouring one another on things as eating pork and going to church on sunday. I say to you that the end of all these things is death!

Beloved.... ALL of you! Please understand that since you claim you see, you yet remain blind. We all know. Some have more knowledge than others. But knowledge puffs up. I have a nice thick strong's concordance. I was excited to finally look up words in greek or hebrew, but of a truth when He was first revealed to me I never used it again.

From then I knew that the bible was an excellent tool for learning of Him, but that is not what saved me. No no no. What is in me something that lives in a book! We can quote verses all day long but that does not edify. You can quote as many verses as you would like about those who sin and do not believe and how they will never inherit eternal life, but I ask: of what sin(s) will you die for!? Or have your bible and your law NOTconcluded that NO flesh and blood shall inherit the kingdom? But I ask you of which is greater, the law, or the LAWGIVER?

I see Him when I look at my wife or my kids. I see Him when I look at my mother and my father. Surely they do things I'm not fond of but I forgive them. I love them, they are a part of ME! I see Him at the job or out in the streets. How could I not! They are my brothers and sisters. I love them, they are a part of me.

How do I know this? Because as surely as I will die, they will too!

You who would be a man of God, I ask you what IS the purpose of an unclean vessel? For aren't these the same people you see doomed?

-----
I understand your iré, but speak out in Love. Judgment is reserved for God and God alone, I say this to everyone, we all fault at times in talking to fellow believers who understand doctrine differently than ourselves. No matter what someone shouts out, a reciprocal outburst, be it loud or quiet, is not what Jesus would do is it? No, Jesus would speak in peace .

How do we speak in peace , so we are blessed , and for God's glory ?

Letting he Spirit lead us

This subject of Hell is intense and saying your say of your belief regarding it is fine but don't think you will change, for instance , a Catholic or Orthadox church's definition of it with your words.

Just pray, then say your say, document with Truth, as you believe, and strengthen it, do a little butressing too , , but we need to be on here in Love ,
, ACCEPTING others' doctrinal beliefs, praying for them and letting the Spirit work. He saves them/changes them/convicts them, NOT you

 

[Israel]

-----
I understand your iré, but speak out in Love. Judgment is reserved for God and God alone, I say this to everyone, we all fault at times in talking to fellow believers who understand doctrine differently than ourselves. No matter what someone shouts out, a reciprocal outburst, be it loud or quiet, is not what Jesus would do is it? No, Jesus would speak in peace .

How do we speak in peace , so we are blessed , and for God's glory ?

Letting he Spirit lead us

This subject of Hell is intense and saying your say of your belief regarding it is fine but don't think you will change, for instance , a Catholic or Orthadox church's definition of it with your words.

Just pray, then say your say, document with Truth, as you believe, and strengthen it, do a little butressing too , , but we need to be on here in Love ,
, ACCEPTING others' doctrinal beliefs, praying for them and letting the Spirit work. He saves them/changes them/convicts them, NOT you

I judge no man according to the flesh. That being said my judgement is that if one man died for all, then all were dead.

People should fear hell. But if such a soul is destined even to the lowest hell, even there God is with them and will save them; even if it took that hell for such a one to realize it.

 

[Tombo]

I judge no man according to the flesh. That being said my judgement is that if one man died for all, then all were dead.

People should fear hell. But if such a soul is destined even to the lowest hell, even there God is with them and will save them; even if it took that hell for such a one to realize it.

I maintain that the Bible in NO WAY teaches universal salvation. It is just not there. And for you, or anyone else, to keep pushing that false doctrine, is wrong. You make a mockery out of what Christ did for us on the cross. According to your teaching, the calling of God, justification, sanctification, and glorification mean nothing. You say that people can live their entire life with no eveidence of being saved, with no profession of trusting in Christ alone, and still go to heaven. You lull people into a false sense of security and hope. It is just the kind of thing satan revels in!!!! He loves to keep people blind to the truth. If he can keep people like you who say to others that they don't need Christ, that no matter what they do or how they live, they will still be accepted by God in the end, then you are doing satan's will.
It is a hard thing for me to rebuke anyone like this, but you must be silenced. This is such a great evil you are propagating that I can not remain silent. It would be sin for me to remain silent while you lead people on the path to destruction. I want all to be saved according to God's word. As I've said, God knows His own, and His purposes for His own will never be thwarted, but that does not take away from the wickedness of your teaching or your responsibility for spreading it.
I beg you to look to Jesus alone for your salvation and to stop spreading this awful lie to everyone. Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." It is Jesus ALONE who delivers us from the wrath to come.
May God open your eyes to His truth.

Tom

 

[Israel]

I maintain that the Bible in NO WAY teaches universal salvation. It is just not there. And for you, or anyone else, to keep pushing that false doctrine, is wrong. You make a mockery out of what Christ did for us on the cross. According to your teaching, the calling of God, justification, sanctification, and glorification mean nothing. You say that people can live their entire life with no eveidence of being saved, with no profession of trusting in Christ alone, and still go to heaven. You lull people into a false sense of security and hope. It is just the kind of thing satan revels in!!!! He loves to keep people blind to the truth. If he can keep people like you who say to others that they don't need Christ, that no matter what they do or how they live, they will still be accepted by God in the end, then you are doing satan's will.
It is a hard thing for me to rebuke anyone like this, but you must be silenced. This is such a great evil you are propagating that I can not remain silent. It would be sin for me to remain silent while you lead people on the path to destruction. I want all to be saved according to God's word. As I've said, God knows His own, and His purposes for His own will never be thwarted, but that does not take away from the wickedness of your teaching or your responsibility for spreading it.
I beg you to look to Jesus alone for your salvation and to stop spreading this awful lie to everyone. Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." It is Jesus ALONE who delivers us from the wrath to come.
May God open your eyes to His truth.

Tom

There you go again calling that which is pure, evil! Tell me man of God and have an answer for me. Is it lawful for a God who desires ALL to come to repentance, to actually do what pleases Him!?

I never said there were other ways other than Jesus. But I say of a truth that to follow HIM, you MUST pick up your cross.too!

Now if you who believe and would claim to want to save all, CAN'T BELIEVE that ALL WILL BE SAVED, Why even teach at all? You are like the doctor who would rather patch an illness instead of curing it.

You say the bible does not teach salvation for all, looking upon it with the eyes of men and only seeing death as if your boo boo is better than the man who does not believe, KNOWING full well that you are helpless to remove even your own stains!

I look upon the bible with the mind of Christ. Not by the appearance as it is God who kills and makes alive. It is God who destroys and builds again.

I asked you a question O man of God, I'll ask it again. Why did God make unclean vessels?

 

[Tombo]

It will do no good for me to go on about this with you, you are blinded and only God can open your eyes. That is my sincere prayer for you and others teaching this heresy.
It will get to the point that I will just be casting the greatest Pearl, the Lord Jesus, before swine, and we are told not to do that. I won't be part of your sin. You do not bring the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Tom

 

[2knowhim]

Tom,

I wasn't going to reply to you at all, because I know the fear that is in your heart, but, you have made a
claim that we who believe in The Salvation of All, has implied that there is another Way that we are preaching, and that is a LIE.

This is a quote from my post to you, #122:


But from vs. 11-15 These are the ones that will experience The Second Death, Which in laymen's terms
means they will die the same death as we have, Through the Cross, Through The Christ, Through the baptism of Fire, Through the same WAY as we have. It is The death of The old man, The man of sin, The son that perisheth, son of perdition as it is known in the KJV.


Even though your words hurt me deeply, I do forgive you, and pray for you.

Don't you think we know that this message is not going to be received by many?
This message, can't be sold or bought, The Lord has revealed to me that,
It's "NOT MARKETABLE" .

1. Being in demand by especially employers
2. Fit to be offered for sale
3. Capable of being marketed

See, It won't sell, you know, like those other books, The Apocalypse,
Eternal Damnation, Left behind, The Rapture.....etc. etc..


But, if it's not from God, don't worry it won't stand, but, if this message of TSOA is from Him, you will not be able to stop it.

God Bless you.

 

[Israel]

Tom, if you REALLY believed your own message, then how could you even sleep at night? You should be out in the streets night and day trying to save as many as you can!

 

[GreenNnice]

IKnowHim, it comes down to what you want to believe, like i said before, 'It just doesn't matter,' however, I believe that there is a Hell and that people will go there and stay IF they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Saviour.

I also believe that they will be condemned. Scripture is clear on this, and, scripture is clear on Satan being thrown into a 'bottomless pit,' and, scripture is clear about his followers going there too.
What does 'Death' mean? I think that is central to everything said and I believe it is forever and forever sufferage and I think our human natures, a good majority anyway, NEED this kind of incentive to follow Christ. Most do not just CHOOSE Christ , they have something happen in their life that shows them God's Love, usually through a dire situation, thus the many testimonies people tell of their lives.
Either way, John 3:16 is clear, if you believe in Christ, you will have eternal life and if not you will perish.

Now does perish mean you will just die a death, like I said, understanding the 'death' word is central to understanding the differece of Heaven and Hell.

One last thing that I believe, the word 'perish' relates to fruit and fruit does eventually rot away but it goes through a process in its perishing, IF that makes any sense.

Either way, whether hell is as you believe, not being where ANYONE goes, that universal salvaton belief, fine, that's your belief, like I said, it won't condemn you to Hell to believe that and it won't condemn Tombo to hell either. it is JUST a belief in where we go, it is NOT a belief in Christ, which IS central to Salvation

Thanks for pointing out that Revelation does not have weeping and gnashing of teeth, I really thought it did. Nevertheless, there is many points in it that speak of hell being a place of torment , and, that is, ultimately, what I think hell is, a place that we will be in 'mental anguish' forever and ever, a seperation from God and KNOWING we made the wrong choice

God bless -l

Yes, IKnowHim, the bible says that everyone after they die will have their time of Judgment before God, they will either be judged good and go into the Lamb's book of life or be thown out (to Hades forever living in 'death,' in torment)

I think the word 'death' is conformed to people's own want when it may not be what God wants . I am not judging, just what I think. what I think God has taught me.

Again, Death and dying is NOT something that should keep those who beliieve Christ died and Christ will come again apart. It, like 'universal salvation' is something God will make KNOWN in His time. Because He knows

John 8:47 .

You are bound to believe what you do.

But, the word Condemned is a English word translated from the Greek, which means Judge or Judgment.

It's very easy to check these things out, the same as Eternal Life and Eternal punishment,...

There is no such thing as either in the Greek or The Hebrew, God alone is Eternal.

KJV

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


See if you can see the difference.

CLV
Joh 10:27 My sheep are hearing My voice, and I know them, and they are following Me."
Joh 10:28 And I am giving them life eonian, and they should by no means be perishing for the eon, and no one shall be snatching them out of My hand."


YLV
Joh 10:27 according as I said to you: My sheep my voice do hear, and I know them, and they follow me,
Joh 10:28 and life age-during I give to them, and they shall not perish--to the age, and no one shall pluck them out of my hand;

Iz, and, IKnowHim, I just don't think it is right to THINK that God is going to have mercy on everyone. It is a nice thought but is it a God thought.We all want peaceful ends for everyone in our hearts, but our HUMAN NATURE is not good, it is WHAT got us into this mess 2000 years ago with Eve and Adam.

And, I am fine with what you say, YOU are right, I am so stauch in the Spirit and making certain I am following Him best I can in my life that I don't need the incentive of Hell a real place unbelievers go when they die, or, after a 1000 years of God trying to get them to believe, they THEN go to Hell because they just won't believe. I find it hard to believe that people would choose hell over heaven when they are in the post-tribulation time but that may be a time, too, that some (many), despite their believer friends already carried up into the sky . God does give the account of the Lazarus and Dives that at the end of Luke 16 that there will be those that just won't believe EVEN if someone who is IN HELL comes back to telll them, 'Hey, I've been to Hell, it is the WORST ! Repent and be saved and go be with God forever !'

Won't matter, 'those' will still choose to live their unbelieving life

Again, as I said above, the word 'death' must be thoroughly examined along with the verses of the bible that use this word regarding the body's dying.

____
This all said, as I mentioned John 8:47, and, really that whole chapter is very eye opening to me for how we should find our Truth by abiding in God's Word, let's speak from Him and you will know, IF you let the Spirit lead you, if the words said are of The Word

 

[Tombo]

2 Thess.1:7-10 "and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His might, when He comes on that day to be glorified in His saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed..."

This verse shows no other way for the unsaved to be saved. No matter how you twist the scriptures, it will not conform to your teaching. To tell others that even though they don't believe and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ in this life, that they will still have another chance after this life, is a teaching of the evil one.
I have no fear in my heart at all about saying this, or of your heresy. My only concern is that God would (if it be His will) turn you from your wickedness, and that others don't fall prey to your unbiblical, ungodly, teaching.


Tom

 

[krisbrian]

Universal salvation is a dangerous doctrine not only for the person you teach it to, but also for the person who teaches it. You go around telling people that eventually all people will be saved and like the above poster said, you lull them into a false since of security. You are responsible for what you teach, and if people end up in hell because you taught them that no one will spend eternity in hell, and they saw that as an invitation to have their sex, drugs, and rock n roll in life, so to speak.....you are in part responsible for that. Because they are gonna think "What the heck, why not live life however we want. We all are going to eventually end up in heaven anyway".

 

[loveme1]

Universal salvation is a dangerous theory, and will assist the evil agenda in implementing their one world order.
The mark of the beast etc, is the only universal part of the Bible, and it is clear what happens to those.

 

[GreenNnice]

Yes, IKnowHim, the bible says that everyone after they die will have their time of Judgment before God, they will either be judged good and go into the Lamb's book of life or be thown out (to Hades forever living in 'death,' in torment)

I think the word 'death' is conformed to people's own want when it may not be what God wants . I am not judging, just what I think. what I think God has taught me.

Again, Death and dying is NOT something that should keep those who beliieve Christ died and Christ will come again apart. It, like 'universal salvation' is something God will make KNOWN in His time. Because He knows

John 8:47 .



Iz, and, IKnowHim, I just don't think it is right to THINK that God is going to have mercy on everyone. It is a nice thought but is it a God thought.We all want peaceful ends for everyone in our hearts, but our HUMAN NATURE is not good, it is WHAT got us into this mess 2000 years ago with Eve and Adam.

And, I am fine with what you say, YOU are right, I am so stauch in the Spirit and making certain I am following Him best I can in my life that I don't need the incentive of Hell a real place unbelievers go when they die, or, after a 1000 years of God trying to get them to believe, they THEN go to Hell because they just won't believe. I find it hard to believe that people would choose hell over heaven when they are in the post-tribulation time but that may be a time, too, that some (many), despite their believer friends already carried up into the sky . God does give the account of the Lazarus and Dives that at the end of Luke 16 that there will be those that just won't believe EVEN if someone who is IN HELL comes back to telll them, 'Hey, I've been to Hell, it is the WORST ! Repent and be saved and go be with God forever !'

Won't matter, 'those' will still choose to live their unbelieving life

Again, as I said above, the word 'death' must be thoroughly examined along with the verses of the bible that use this word regarding the body's dying.

____
This all said, as I mentioned John 8:47, and, really that whole chapter is very eye opening to me for how we should find our Truth by abiding in God's Word, let's speak from Him and you will know, IF you let the Spirit lead you, if the words said are of The Word

Yes, I believe so much in God against 'universal salvation' because it makes everyone, believers and non-believers, get into a thinking that what they do on Earth doesn't matter. Satan will get to you for thinking this way, he is not stronger than God but he is stronger than your human nature. And, even IF you want to stay with God, IF you are teaching and preaching and living a false understanding of salvation to others then God will have no choice but to take away His shield of protection from you because you will be living for the Enemy two and God is clear, through Jesus' teachings, we can NOT serve to masters.

I STILL try to just let the Lord lead because I realize that beliefs other than mine are out there and God is a gentle
God, not just a great God, and, I want those that are being misled to find the way, maybe, it's just find their way back, and, IF I am being condescending and attacking and, generally, unkind and judgmental then God has that much harder of a time of getting that person back . Like I likened false teaching before, I see those that lead others wrong as like Paul who was torturing Christians and when God finally had him alone one time on a walk down the road (to Damascus) He could talk to Paul (quite a talk, eh ) and so, it is with those that teach false and do harm to other believers, it is important we still let the Lord lead through the Spirit speaking through us and EVERYTHING we say should be to BRING them back to God and eternity so the angels can cheer, not to mention, so YOU can be blessed. And, you will .

Your leading others to Christ can be likened to 'Clarence' in movie, 'It's a wonderful life,' where the angels sing or clap, or whatever they did, clanged symbols when Clarence FINALLY earned his wings for helping 'George' down on Earth.

Universal salvation is a dangerous theory, and will assist the evil agenda in implementing their one world order.
The mark of the beast etc, is the only universal part of the Bible, and it is clear what happens to those.

Hi, LoveMe, I am just saying hi God bless you, milady .
_______--
Hi, tommyBgood, yes, amen, may God bless you for putting that down, I see those 1 Thessalonians verses picks is true, there will be vengeance for those that have not chosen Him, and, there will be great blessings for those He will take with Him up to the sky, great joy, what a day IF I am here alive when Jesus descends, Hallelujah as I see it, nice pull, Christ bro

 

[Israel]

2 Thess.1:7-10 "and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His might, when He comes on that day to be glorified in His saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed..."

This verse shows no other way for the unsaved to be saved. No matter how you twist the scriptures, it will not conform to your teaching. To tell others that even though they don't believe and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ in this life, that they will still have another chance after this life, is a teaching of the evil one.
I have no fear in my heart at all about saying this, or of your heresy. My only concern is that God would (if it be His will) turn you from your wickedness, and that others don't fall prey to your unbiblical, ungodly, teaching.


Tom

Beloved, who has bewitched you?

2 Corinthians 5:6

6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

Did you catch that man of God? WHILE WE ARE HOME IN THE BODY, ALL ARE ABSENT FROM THE LORD. This coincides with the whole "no flesh and blood may enter the kingdom" theme. You try really hard to be that one exception though!

 

[Tombo]

Beloved, who has bewitched you?

2 Corinthians 5:6

6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

Did you catch that man of God? WHILE WE ARE HOME IN THE BODY, ALL ARE ABSENT FROM THE LORD. This coincides with the whole "no flesh and blood may enter the kingdom" theme. You try really hard to be that one exception though!

2 Thess.1:7-10 "and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His might, when He comes on that day to be glorified in His saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed..."

You cannot face the fact (written as clear as day in these verses) that the lost will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction. To you destruction doesn't mean destruction. With your teaching words have no meaning.
Your comparison of 2 Cor,5:6 is totaly unrealted to the punishment and destruction of the ugodly at the judgment. All that verse is saying is that believers are absent from God's presence in heaven while here on earth. Here we walk by faith.
Repent, my freind. Your teaching is leading you and those you teach to the path of eternal destruction.

Tom

 

[Israel]

2 Thess.1:7-10 "and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His might, when He comes on that day to be glorified in His saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed..."

You cannot face the fact (written as clear as day in these verses) that the lost will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction. To you destruction doesn't mean destruction. With your teaching words have no meaning.
Your comparison of 2 Cor,5:6 is totaly unrealted to the punishment and destruction of the ugodly at the judgment. All that verse is saying is that believers are absent from God's presence in heaven while here on earth. Here we walk by faith.
Repent, my freind. Your teaching is leading you and those you teach to the path of eternal destruction.

Tom

My Jesus seeks those that are lost. And he lost not one. How is it unrelated? The verses you mentioned stated that away from the presence of the Lord people will suffer eternal damnation. The verse I stated says that all are not in the Lord's presence. We too are absent! Again along the same lines that all were subject to vanity. THOSE THAT ARE LOST AS WELL AS THOSE WHO BELIEVE. All will die. The believer AND the unbeliever as ONE! So that when He lifts you up, He will lift the unbeliever as well.

It's amazing the darkness in your heart. You make it seem as if because I believe or rather KNOW that all men will be saved, I live a raucous lifestyle. What do you do to honor God that is better than how I do it?

Stop hiding behind verses and say it plainly man of God. I see you victorious in Christ along with all my brethren. Do you really see me burning in the lake for eternity for having the gall to believe that Jesus really did take away the sins of the world?