The dead are asleep

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
T

Tombo

Guest
#21
the spirit is the breath of life and is separate from the soul. the breauh of life goes back to god who gave it. the bible does not say only the breath of life from good people go to god. the bible never calls the soul eternal. show me 1 verse in the bible that says the soul is eternal with the 2 words actually linked together.
I absolutely don't believe the soul/spirit is immortal, not naturally. But believer's are given immortality in their spirits when they are saved. As I've said many times, the unsaved are dead until the end, and will be raised up to face judgment and the destruction of their body and soul. The saved are dead in body but alive in their spirit. They will remain alive in their spirit with the Lord until the end.
God bless, Laodicea.

Tom
 
K

krisbrian

Guest
#22
I guess Moses talks in his sleep...

Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Mar 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Luk 9:30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
Luk 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.


Apparently Abraham talks in his sleep too...

Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


The rich man likes to talk in his sleep also....

Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.


Here are some more people talking in their sleep...

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
 
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#23
You've just about got it right. He will bring us back with Him to receive our raised up glorified bodies and to change the living believers bodies into their immortal bodies. Don't scare me now and make me think you've actually got it!!!!:D
Really, I know you are trying to understand and want to hold to the truth, so I don't fault you for that. I just wish you can see this glorious truth.
God bless you, PB.

Tom
I have understanding and I do hold to the truth.

1) Christ's comes for his saints 2) events in Revelation - Christ's coming with his saints 3) the first and second resurrections and finally 4) the end telos when death is destroyed and all things are subdued to God.

God bless you also, Tom
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#24
I have understanding and I do hold to the truth.

1) Christ's comes for his saints 2) events in Revelation - Christ's coming with his saints 3) the first and second resurrections and finally 4) the end telos when death is destroyed and all things are subdued to God.

God bless you also, Tom
I know you are intelligent, PB. I hope I didn't give the impression that I think you, or anyone else here, are stupid. I was just making a joke when I said "Don't scare me now and make me think you've actually got it!!!!." I hope you don't think I'm trying to be hateful or mean, I just have a zeal for the truth. But I think in my zeal I sometimes say things (unwisely) that sound unduly harsh.
I am really a sweetheart of a guy when I'm not fighting for the truth:).
Really, no joke, I apologize for any offense I may have caused.
God bless, PB.

Tom
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#25
The spirit is the breath of life and has no conciousness. No where in the BIble does it say the people go to heaven when they die. Moses was resurrected, Elijah and Enoch were translated
 
K

krisbrian

Guest
#26
Our spirit is much more than just "breath". Translate the word ruach and pneuma "breath" in every verse those words are mentioned and see just how silly some verses sound.

Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in breath: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 12:43 When the unclean breath is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a breath hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Joh 4:24 God is a breath: and they that worship him must worship him in breath and in truth.

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the breaths in prison;
 
K

krisbrian

Guest
#27
No where in the BIble does it say the people go to heaven when they die.
Sure it does, you just wont accept it.

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Php 1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Php 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
 
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#28
I absolutely don't believe the soul/spirit is immortal, not naturally. But believer's are given immortality in their spirits when they are saved. As I've said many times, the unsaved are dead until the end, and will be raised up to face judgment and the destruction of their body and soul. The saved are dead in body but alive in their spirit. They will remain alive in their spirit with the Lord until the end.
God bless, Laodicea.

Tom
One thought or question for you to consider in reference to the soul of man. When we are redeemed by the blood of Christ, how is that redemption applied to us as a whole man? We know that the body goes in the grave waiting for its redemption (Rom 8:23). If redemption applies to the soul with the forgiveness and cleansing of all sin (which also includes the conscience - Heb 9:14) and with that the gift of eternal life, then the soul of the wicked, who have no redemption are condemned to eternal damnation and in their soul and body are cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death (Mt 10:28, Rev 20:12-15). The soul of every person will live forever, either in the presence of God or separated from God in the second death.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#29
Please explain my 1st post on this thread usinh the Bible for your explanation without trying to counteract the verses
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#30
I found this. Interesting read. What do yall think about it?

There are two significant words in the Greek New Testament for the English term “sleep.” Each of these is used both literally and figuratively, that is, for natural sleep, and also as a symbol for death.
(1) The term katheudo occurs 22 times in the New Testament. In a literal sense it is used of “natural sleep” (Mt. 13:25; 25:5). The term is employed with reference to death in only one passage. The daughter of a Jewish synagogue ruler, whose name was Jairus, had died (Mk. 5:35). Christ was bidden to the place where the girl was. When he arrived at the home, the Lord confidently said: “…the child is not dead, but is sleeping” (v. 39). That the maiden actually was dead admits of no doubt. The Savior used the term “sleep” figuratively, in view of the fact that this death was to be a temporary heartache. He then raised the twelve-year-old girl from her state of death. Luke says that her “spirit returned” and she rose up immediately (Lk. 8:55).
(2) Another term in the New Testament for “sleep” is koimaomai (a form of koimao). The word is found 18 times. While koimaomai may refer on occasion to normal sleep (Mt. 28:13; Lk. 22:45), predominately (15 of the 18 times) this word is used figuratively for the “sleep” of death (see Mt. 27:52; 1 Cor. 15:20; 1 Thes. 4:13-15). This metaphorical use of “sleep,” to describe the death of a body, is ancient. It is found in classical Greek (e.g., Homer, Illiad 11.241; Sophocles, El.509; et al.) and in the Septuagint (e.g., 36 times in 2 Kgs. & Chron, as in “he slept with his fathers” — cf. 2 Kg. 14:16).
Here is a fact that must be underscored. When the term “sleep” is used to depict the death of a person, the allusion is always to the disposition of the body, not the soul. There is no passage in the Scriptures that reflects the notion that one’s soul sleeps (i.e., is unconscious) in death. The case to the contrary may be argued briefly in the following fashion.
(2) The prophet Daniel affirmed that those who “sleep [katheudonton] in the dust of the earth shall awake” (Dan. 12:2). Note that the part of man that “sleeps” is that which is deposited in the “dust of the earth.” This obviously is a reference to the physical body. The awakening, then, is a reference to the bodily resurrection.
(3) Jesus once said to his disciples: “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep [kekoimetai — the perfect, passive of koimao]; but I go that I may awake him out of sleep” (Jn. 11:11). In view of the subsequent context, the “awakening” clearly refers to the resurrection of Lazarus’ body (vv. 43-44). The verb koimao derives from the root keimai, “to lie down.” In death, it is only the “body” that lies down (not the soul); hence, it is the body that sleeps.
W.E. Vine notes that keimai, “to lie down,” stands as an antonym to “resurrection” (anastasis — from ana, “up”, and histemi, “to cause to stand” – see: Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words under “Asleep”). Since that which will “stand up” is the body; it follows that the element of man that “lies down” or “sleeps” likewise is the body. The early Christians even called their burial grounds koimeteria, “sleeping places,” and from this term derives our modern word, “cemetery,” a place to which we transport the bodies of our loved ones. The term sleep says absolutely nothing about the state of the soul after death.
Noted scholar D. Edmond Hiebert observed:
“…[T]he figure of death as sleep cannot be pressed to establish the teaching that in the intermediate state the soul is in unconscious repose (soul sleep) …. the body only is thought of as being asleep, no longer in communication with its earthly environment. As sleep has its awakening, so the body of the believer will have its awakening. The theory of soul sleep is inconsistent with Paul’s assertion in [1 Thes.] 5:10 that God’s purpose for us is the whether we live or die we should live together with Christ. At death the believer’s ‘earthly house of our tabernacle’ is dissolved (2 Cor. 5:1) and returns to the dust, but the spiritual part of man, the soul, his self-conscious personality, departs ‘to be with the Lord’ (2 Cor. 5:8). Since to depart from the world in death to ‘be with Christ’ is described by Paul as ‘very far better’ (Phil. 1:23) than the present state of blessed communion with the Lord and happy activity in His service, it is evident that ‘sleep’ as applied to believers cannot be intended to teach that the soul is unconscious” (The Thessalonian Epistles, Chicago: Moody, 1971, pp. 188-89).
The Consciousness of the Soul After Death

There are those, who identify themselves with Christianity, who contend that the dead are not conscious in the intermediate state, i.e., in that condition of existence between the time of one’s death and that of the resurrection of his body. Martin Luther once taught that the condition between death and the resurrection is “a deep and dreamless sleep without consciousness and feeling” (see Paul Althaus, The Theology of Martin Luther, Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1966, pp. 414-416).
There have been some among the churches of Christ who have advocated this concept. For example, in a speech delivered at Pepperdine University in April of 1988, F. LaGard Smith (now affiliated with David Lipscomb University) asserted the theory of “soul-sleeping.” But this position is seriously flawed and is refuted by considerable biblical evidence.
(1) The narrative regarding the rich man and Lazarus unquestionably demonstrates the consciousness of humanity (of both the evil and the righteous) in the intermediate state (Lk. 16:19ff). While some would dismiss this account as a mere parable, the evidence is against that view. (a) The text has traits that suggest it is not a parable (e.g., Lazarus and Abraham being named). (b) It would not matter if it were, for a parable portrays circumstances that are true to life (unlike, for example, the fable). For a more detailed consideration of this matter, see the author’s article: ""Are the Dead Conscious?"", December 9, 1999).
(2) On the mountain of Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah appeared and spoke with Christ regarding his impending death in Jerusalem (Lk. 9:30-31). These Old Testament worthies certainly were not in a state of “dreamless sleep.”
(3) On the cross, Jesus promised the penitent robber, “Today you will be with me in Paradise” (Lk. 23:43). The language demands association and consciousness later that day in the realm of the righteous dead. If not, of what value was the pledge?
(4) As Hiebert mentioned (see above), Paul described the state of departing to be with the Lord (i.e., dying in Christ) as being “very far better” than earthly Christian fellowship (Phil. 1:23). Could one affirm that unconsciousness is “very far better” than the sweet communion among the children of God? Moreover, what value would there be in desiring to “depart” to be “with Christ” if one was unconscious, and thus did not even know that he was “with Christ.”
(5) In the book of Revelation John saw a vision of the “souls” of those who had been slain upon the earth (Rev. 6:9-11). These souls were petitioning the Lord for information as to when their blood would be avenged, and they were encouraged to wait patiently until Heaven’s plan had reached fruition. It is impossible to eliminate post-death consciousness from this sacred scene.
These arguments represent but a fraction of the case that can be made for the conscious state of the dead in the post-death, pre-resurrection state of human existence. Those who deny this clear biblical teaching reveal that they have been influenced by doctrines that are alien to the scriptural view of man.
 
K

krisbrian

Guest
#31
Good read, but there will be weak attempts to explain it away.
 
I

IMINJC

Guest
#33
laodicea



YOU SAID: The spirit is the breath of life and has no conciousness. No where in the BIble does it say the people go to heaven when they die.


Now Laodicea...you know this is not true. You already know all the scriptures that I would site to prove you wrong. You have seen them a thousand times and by now could probably argue soul consciousness after death better than I could as well as I could argue soul sleep....only thing is I can't find (1) scripture that says that the Soul Sleeps...

Your still "The Man" though as far as I'm concerned.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#34
1 Kings 2:10
(10) So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.
1 Kings 11:43
(43) And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.
1 Kings 14:31
(31) And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess. And Abijam his son reigned in his stead.
1 Kings 15:8
(8) And Abijam slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead.
1 Kings 16:28
(28) So Omri slept with his fathers, and was buried in Samaria: and Ahab his son reigned in his stead.

New Testament
John 11:11-14
(11) These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
(12) Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
(13) Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
(14) Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Mark 5:35-39
(35) While he yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue's house certain which said, Thy daughter is dead: why troublest thou the Master any further?
(36) As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.
(37) And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James.
(38) And he cometh to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and seeth the tumult, and them that wept and wailed greatly.
(39) And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
1 Corinthians 15:51
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

People will be woken when Jesus returns
Daniel 12:2
(2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


In a latter quote you asked readers to read your orginal post and go from there. If you allow me, I will give it a shot.

If you will notice from your verses, and all others pertaining to the subject: they all speak of sleeping. Generally speaking, "sleeping" is rest from activity. Biblically, "sleeping" is resting from our deeds, it could be thought of as a person's sabbath.

If you would, also notice that in each instance, it is speaking about the physical body. In Job 7:21, it is the body which turns back to dust, and that is considered sleep. Dan 12:2, looking towards the Judgment Day, says on the wise, "And many of them who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Are we not told that all who are in the graves shall come forth? What is in graves if not the physical body?

What great promise we have in Christ, whether we are awake or sleep (in the grave), we should live together with Him (1Th 5:10). We are alive to God through Jesus Christ (Rom 6:11). There is no adverse sentence to those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1).

The consequences of sin is spiritual death. But, we, those who are in Christ, do have remission of sin. If we have remission of sin, then there is no record of sin, as God said that He will have forgotten them. If there is no sin to be mentioned, then there is no consequences to face. Indeed, there is no spiritual death to those who are in Christ. Bless my Almighty God, for He has granted to us a ripping of the veil which separated use from Him. God, centainly, sees us through the same eyes He looks upon that most blessed Lamb which took our place in Hades. The same Lamb which took my adverse sentence and give in its place, everlasting life. Amen my Lord.



 
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#35
I have been reading a book by EW Bullinger - The Church Epistles: Romans to Thessalonians. In this book he takes each Church Epistle and shows the structure and build up of each epistle for further understanding and meaning. It is really remarkable to see how God's word has such symmetry and harmony. I thought just for enlightening (not to argue a point for I feel there is no need and it's not getting us anywhere) - but just to see the beauty of how God's word fits together in such a remarkable way. I would like to look at the structure of 1 Thess. 4:13-18 and its correlation with 1 Thess. 5:1-11 in what we need to know and what we do not need to know as far as our - Instruction: Our Resurrection and Ascension before the Day of the Lord and how both 4;13-19 and 5:1-11 are written for our comfort and encouragement:
a. 4:13 Instruction necessary as to "them that fall asleep" (to go to sleep involuntarily)
b. v14. First reason: For, those who have fallen asleep God (by Jesus) will bring again from the dead
c. v15. Second reason: For those who "are alive and remain" shall not precede.
d. v16,17. Third reason: Because both shall be caught up together at the descension of the Lord into the air.
e. v18. Encouragement: "Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

a. 5:1 Instruction not necessary as to "the times and seasons" of our Resurrection and Ascension which will take place before the Day of the Lord
b. v2-6 First reason: For they already knew the character of "the Day of the Lord." (fully aware v2) Contrast (v4,5) children of light, children of the day - not of the night or of the darkness (v6) Exhortaiton: "therefore let us not sleep" (to go to sleep voluntarily or opposite of watchfulness) but "let us watch"
c. v7,8 Second reason: "For them that sleep sleep in the night.: Contrast and Exhortation, " But let us, etc."
d . v9,10 Third reason: Because God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation (viz; in Resurrection) whether we watch or sleep, we should together live with him
e. v11 Encouragement: "Therefore encourage one another and build one another up ( as in "e" above "comfort one another")
I just think its amazing how scripture builds upon scripture and how precise God was in getting his word written and this is just ONE section! If His word is that important to Him then it behooves us to study and rightly divide the word of truth.
 
Last edited:
K

krisbrian

Guest
#36
I have been reading a book by EW Bullinger - The Church Epistles: Romans to Thessalonians. In this book he takes each Church Epistle and shows the structure and build up of each epistle for further understanding and meaning. It is really remarkable to see how God's word has such symmetry and harmony. I thought just for enlightening (not to argue a point for I feel there is no need and it's not getting us anywhere) - but just to see the beauty of how God's word fits together in such a remarkable way. I would like to look at the structure of 1 Thess. 4:13-18 and its correlation with 1 Thess. 5:1-11 in what we need to know and what we do not need to know as far as our - Instruction: Our Resurrection and Ascension before the Day of the Lord and how both 4;13-19 and 5:1-11 are written for our comfort and encouragement:


I just think its amazing how scripture builds upon scripture and how precise God was in getting his word written and this is just ONE section! If His word is that important to Him then it behooves us to study and rightly divide the word of truth.
While I like the companion bible by bullinger, it seems he was an advocate of "soul sleep" too. I think he was right about a lot things but he was also way wrong about things too. I still do enjoy the companion bible quite a bit (dont throw the baby out with the bath water).
 
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#37
While I like the companion bible by bullinger, it seems he was an advocate of "soul sleep" too. I think he was right about a lot things but he was also way wrong about things too. I still do enjoy the companion bible quite a bit (dont throw the baby out with the bath water).
I still do not really understand why it's called "soul sleep" but who cares!! As I said I was just wanting to show through Bullinger's work; how the word of God is so beautiful and perfect. All scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work. ESV Did anyone know that Thessalonians is the only Church Epistle that can stand by itself with no need for reproof or correction?

But since the beauty and perfectness of the structure probably won't even be considered - -

I'd also like to point this out from the same book:

Instruction was necessary as to those who had been taken away by death. The Thessalonian saints were "ignorant" as to what takes place after death, as all would have been had not god, who alone can know, seen fit to reveal it to us. As formerly heathen, they head been either Platonists or Epicureans; and, if Jews, then either Pharisees or Saducees. The former (Platonists and Pharisees) believed that no one died: death being merely life in another form. Indeed, this is the popular belief of the day: but those who hold it do not see that it does away with and denies the necessity of resurrection.
The latter (the Epicureans and Sadducees) believed that death was death, and that every one who died had died eternally. These denied the doctrine of the resurrection altogether. Holding one of these two creeds, these saints were therefore ignorant and were of course much concerned about their friends who had died; fearing, not that they had gone before, but would be left behind, and have no part with those who were alive and remained to the coming of the Lord. That's why ist is written: " I would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning them that are asleep, that ye sorrow not even as the others that have no hope."
Just a little extra information whether anyone wants to learn something from it or not is up to the individual - but thanks for taking the time to read.

God bless.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#38
1 Kings 2:10
(10) So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.
1 Kings 11:43
(43) And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.
1 Kings 14:31
(31) And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess. And Abijam his son reigned in his stead.
1 Kings 15:8
(8) And Abijam slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead.
1 Kings 16:28
(28) So Omri slept with his fathers, and was buried in Samaria: and Ahab his son reigned in his stead.

New Testament
John 11:11-14

(11) These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
(12) Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
(13) Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
(14) Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Mark 5:35-39
(35) While he yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue's house certain which said, Thy daughter is dead: why troublest thou the Master any further?
(36) As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.
(37) And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James.
(38) And he cometh to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and seeth the tumult, and them that wept and wailed greatly.
(39) And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
1 Corinthians 15:51
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

People will be woken when Jesus returns
Daniel 12:2

(2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


Sleep is a form of rest. When we sleep we are still able to perceive things in dreams and in a realm that we typically do not talk about but the Bible does mention. Many prophets in the Bible talk about having visions and messages from God during sleep or during dreams.

Therefore even sleep is not a soul death that people like to describe. There is more to the realm of sleep then many will be willing to discuss.

However if you agree that sleep is a form of rest then you will see that these verses talk about what happens to the soul after death:

Revelation 6
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Revelation 14:13
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”
 
Aug 1, 2009
349
9
18
#39
1 Kings 2:10
(10) So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.
1 Kings 11:43
(43) And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.
1 Kings 14:31
(31) And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess. And Abijam his son reigned in his stead.
1 Kings 15:8
(8) And Abijam slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead.
1 Kings 16:28
(28) So Omri slept with his fathers, and was buried in Samaria: and Ahab his son reigned in his stead.

New Testament
John 11:11-14

(11) These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
(12) Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
(13) Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
(14) Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Mark 5:35-39
(35) While he yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue's house certain which said, Thy daughter is dead: why troublest thou the Master any further?
(36) As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.
(37) And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James.
(38) And he cometh to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and seeth the tumult, and them that wept and wailed greatly.
(39) And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
1 Corinthians 15:51
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

People will be woken when Jesus returns
Daniel 12:2

(2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


At death, the body "sleeps" in the sense that it will "wake" when its spirit returns. For those in Christ, at death, the spirit departs to be with Christ (2nd Cor 5:8) until the resurrection of their bodies (Romans 8:3).
 
K

krisbrian

Guest
#40
Soul Sleep[5]

By Tal Davis
"To be or not to be: That is the question."
— William Shakespeare
One of the most vexing questions every person faces in life is, "What happens when I die?" The answer to that question is, therefore, one of the most crucial for any religious faith to provide for its adherents.
One answer some have proposed has been called "Soul Sleep" or, more accurately, the doctrine of "Conditional Immortality." This view asserts, simply put, that when people die, their physical body ceases to function and the life force of the spirit is removed. This means that their conscious existence ends while they wait in the grave for a resurrected body restored by God at the end times. Their perspective is that human beings are not naturally immortal and do not survive, in any sense, after physical death.
This doctrine is propagated dogmatically by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (Jehovah’s Witnesses). In their widely distributed book, Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life (Brooklyn: Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, 1995, p. 82) they state:
"When somebody dies, the spirit (life force) ceases to animate the body cells, much as a light goes out when the electricity is turned off. When the life force stops sustaining the human being, man — the soul — dies."
Further, in the same publication (p. 83) they assert:
"Therefore, God’s Word refers to the dead as being asleep. For example, upon learning that his friend Lazarus had died, Jesus Christ told His disciples 'Lazarus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awake him from sleep.'"
Another faith group that teaches the same view is the Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) Church. In their official doctrinal publication, Seventh-Day Adventists Believe … A Biblical Exposition of 27 Fundamental Doctrines (Hagerstown, MD: Review and Herald Publishing Assoc., 1988, p. 353) they state:
"The grave is not a place of consciousness. Since death is a sleep, the dead remain in a state of unconsciousness in the grave until the resurrection, when the grave (Hades) gives up its dead (Rev. 20:13)."
Both the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the SDA base this "Soul Sleep" doctrine on their interpretations of certain key biblical terms and passages. For example, both agree that both the Old Testament Hebrew sheol and the New Testament Greek term Hades refer to the common grave of mankind. Thus, they do not infer any concept of natural immortality of the soul at physical death. Old Testament passages like Ecclesiastes 3:19-21; 9:5, 6; 12:7; Job 14:10-12; Psalm 115:17; and others are often quoted to buttress this position. New Testament passages such as Matthew 9:24; Mark 5:39; John 11:11-14; Acts 7:20; 1 Corinthians 15:51, 52; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17; and 2 Peter 3:4, where dead people are referred to as "sleeping" or "asleep", are also utilized as proof that the dead are now in a sort of unconscious state of nonbeing. The term "sleep" (Greek: Koimao or Katheudo) was a common biblical euphemism for death. Paul used it only in reference to believers in Christ who had died.
We need to ask, however, do these passages actually prove unquestionably what the Jehovah’s Witnesses, SDAs, and others holding this position, assert? Obviously, we do not have space here to exegete every passage above. However, we can look carefully at a few Scriptures, particularly from the New Testament and the words of Jesus, that may lead us to a different conclusion than that summarized above.
Jehovah’s Witnesses, SDAs, and others holding to "Soul Sleep" are basically correct in saying that there is no dualism taught in the Bible between the human soul and physical life. Certainly the Hebrew view is not that man "has a soul," totally separate from his body, but that he "is a soul" which includes his mortal body and immortal spirit. Several significant passages indicate that a person has a conscious spiritual existence after death and prior to the resurrection of the body.
For instance, in Matthew 22:31-32, Jesus, in response to a pointed question about marriage, life after death, and the resurrection, quoted Exodus 3:6 and then added His authoritative comment to it. "Have you not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living." Jesus' words clearly imply that the Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were even at that point in Jesus' day still alive, in some way. Would he have made such an assertion were they totally dead spiritually?
Likewise, in Luke 16:19-31 Jesus told the story of Lazarus and the rich man. According to His story, the righteous poor Lazarus died and went immediately to "Abraham’s bosom," while the wicked rich man (unnamed) died and went to Hades. In both cases, they were presented as conscious, aware, and communicative. Soul Sleep advocates sometimes argue that the story was only a parable and not to be understood literally. If that is so, then it would be the only parable Jesus ever told that could not have been at least conceivably possible in real life. Even Jesus' other parables were true to life, even if they were not actual events. So, why in this case alone would the Lord use false information to convey such a critical truth as that regarding the fate of the dead?
Another key event wherein Jesus' words contradict Soul Sleep is when He spoke to the repentant thief on the cross (see Luke 23:39-43). Following the thief’s confession and appeal to Him for mercy, Jesus answered, "Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." This statement begs the question of the Soul Sleep position. What did Jesus mean by "today you will be with me." if the thief would have no conscious life when he died? Some have argued that translators have misrepresented the passage by placing a comma between the word "you" and "today." Their view is that since the original Greek text had no punctuation it could just as well correctly be read, "Truly I say to you today, you will be with me in Paradise" (a promise of the resurrection). This interpretation seems unlikely, however. Jesus used the phrase "Truly I say to you" many times as recorded in the Gospels as a validation of His divine authority. In no instance did He ever attach to it any temporal conditionality such as "today." Clearly the term "today" in the context was to be attached to the promise--that day the thief would be with Jesus in Paradise.
One of the most dramatic events that weighs on this issue was that of Jesus' transfiguration (see Matt. 17:1-8; Mark 9:2-8; Luke 9:28-36; and 2 Pet. 1:16-18). Peter, James, and John all personally heard the voice of God and witnessed the visible appearance of Moses and Elijah talking with Jesus. The obvious problem for Soul Sleep advocates is to explain how Moses, who had died centuries before (see Deut. 34:5, 6), could suddenly appear and converse with Jesus and Elijah (Elijah had not died but was taken to heaven in a fiery chariot--see 2 Kings 2:11).
Perhaps Jesus' classic statement in this regard was when He received the news of His friend Lazarus' death. Told by his sister Martha of her brother’s demise Jesus comforted and answered her by stating, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies."
The apostle Paul in his letters, likewise, presents evidence that there is no cessation of conscious life at death, at least for the believer in Christ.
In 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 (NASB) Paul was contemplating death.
"Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord--for we walk by faith, not by sight. We are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord." (NASB)
Paul implies that if he died he would be separated from his physical body for a time but, nonetheless, present with the Lord-that is Jesus Christ-in some spiritual sense. Thus, for Paul, anticipating death held no terror. This clearly contradicts the Soul Sleep perspective.
Later in the same epistle (see 2 Cor. 12:2-4) Paul described "a man" who, fourteen years before his writing, had been caught up "to the third heaven" or "Paradise." Most New Testament scholars believe he was talking about himself. In any case, Paul twice stated, that he did not know if the man "had been taken up in the body" or "out of the body." If no conscious existence apart from the body can exist, then he would have to have been "in the body." But Paul said only "God knows," implying at least the possibility of an immaterial conscious state of life.
In a similar light, Paul mulled his possible martyrdom in Philippians 1:12-26. He evidently did not think that he was going to be killed at that point since God still had much work for him to accomplish. Nevertheless, he acknowledged that, even if he were to die, it would actually be to his advantage:
"For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake" (Phil. 1:21-24, NASB)
Those advocating Soul Sleep are hard put to explain why Paul would make the above statements if he did not believe he was going to be with Jesus immediately upon his death, whenever and however it was to happen, but not in the flesh.
Another of Paul’s epistles also gives us some clue as to the fate of dead believers. In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Paul wrote about those who were "asleep" or "the dead in Christ." Those were believers who died before the Lord’s return. He states that they would accompany the Lord at His return and be the first to be resurrected from the dead. Those who advocate Soul Sleep would likely say this fits their perspective well. However, in chapter five of the same letter Paul, in speaking of the present state of both the living and dead, in expectation of the Lord’s future return says,
"For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we are [present tense] awake [alive] or asleep [dead], we may live together with Him." (I Thess. 5:9-10, NASB).
Conclusion
Bible students may sincerely differ on some doctrinal issues. In the case of "Soul Sleep" (or Conditional Immortality) it is our position that the doctrine contradicts the balanced survey of New Testament teachings, and especially the Words of Jesus. They teach that spiritual life, for believers in Christ, continues after death in an intermediate state of conscious being until the general resurrection of the dead at the return of Christ.