The dead are asleep

peacefulbeliever · Mar 29, 2012

I believe that yes, I will die - but I will live at the resurrection and in that sense I will never die.

A person as a "whole" person dies - that "whole" person will live again at the return of Christ and only then and in the following order:

1 Co. 15:22-24 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end (telos) when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God even the Father, when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Psalm 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints. Precious is the Hebrew word - yakar - and means of great price, costly. It cost God a lot for one of us to die - that is one less that praise Him and testify of Him.

Psalm 30:9 what profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the dirt? shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth.

Psalm 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah. Shall thy loving kindness be declared in the grave?

Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Psalm 143:3 For the enemy hath persecuted my soul; he hath smitten my life down to the ground; he hath made me to dwell in darkness, as those that have been long dead.

John 14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again; that where I am; there ye may be also.

2 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. Which will be at the end (telos) "And death and hell (hades -grave) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Rev. 20:15

God bless.

Spiritual_Plague · Mar 29, 2012

That scripture is referring to David's body. David's spirit is not dead.

Elizabeth619 · Mar 29, 2012

Literal Sleep

The word “sleep” is used literally of the state of the body in normal, unconscious repose. On one occasion when Jesus and his disciples were crossing the Sea of Galilee, the Lord was sleeping on a cushion in the stern of the boat (Mk. 4:38). This is but one of the many evidences which argue for the true humanity of the Savior.
It is interesting that the Scriptures refer to different levels of sleep. At Troas, Eutychus, in a late-night church service, was borne down with “deep sleep,” and fell from an upstairs window to the ground (Acts 20:9). Science makes a distinction between a lighter sleep (REM = Rapid Eye Movement, i.e., the dream stage) and a deeper sleep (non-REM). This is determined by the measurement of brain waves on an electroencephalograph (EEG). In adults, deep slumber represents about 75% of one’s sleeping time.

Sleep as a Symbol

The term “sleep” is used symbolically in several different senses in the Bible. A consideration of these makes a fascinating study.

The concept of sleeping is biblically employed to stress certain truths about God. In emphasizing the fact that the Lord is ever watchful of our needs, a psalmist wrote: “He will not allow your foot to slip; he who keeps you will not slumber. Behold, he who keeps Israel will neither slumber nor sleep” (Psa. 121:3-4). As a result of the Lord’s providential care, the faithful saint takes consolation. “In peace will I both lay me down and sleep; for you, Jehovah, alone make me dwell in safety” (Psa. 4:8).

On the other hand, when the Hebrew people drifted into sin, and the Lord allowed them to suffer the consequences of their rebellion, it was as if he was asleep, i.e., he did not intervene to deliver them from certain calamities. They exclaimed: “Awake. Why do you sleep, O Lord? Arise, do not cast us off forever” (Psa. 44:23).
Sometimes sleep is used as the equivalent of being lazy. “Do not give sleep to your eyes, nor slumber to your eyelids …. Go to the ant, O sluggard. Observe her ways and be wise …. How long will you lie down, O sluggard? When will you arise from your sleep? A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest. And your poverty will come in like a vagabond, and your need like an armed man” (Prov. 6:4-11).
Sleep can portray the utter and final punishment of a wicked power that has stood in opposition to God. The prophet Jeremiah foretold the complete destruction of the evil Babylonian regime. “… Babylon shall become heaps, a dwelling-place for jackals, an astonishment, and a hissing, without inhabitant …. When they are heated, I will make their feast, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith Jehovah” (51:37-39). (For a full discussion of precisely how this was accomplished, see the author’s commentary, {glossSub (“Courier Publications”,“Jeremiah & Lamentations”)}, 175-86.)
Sometimes spiritual lethargy is represented as a sleep. To the brethren in Rome Paul wrote: “And this, knowing the season, that already it is time for you to awake out of sleep: for now is salvation nearer to us than when we first believed” (Rom. 13:11). The apostle subsequently amplifies the significance of the figure by suggesting that the pursuit of an ungodly lifestyle is tantamount to a spiritual coma (v. 13).

A similar thought is suggested in Paul’s letter to the Ephesians: “Awake, you who are sleeping, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall shine on you” (Eph. 5:14).
Sleep can suggest the notion of being unprepared to meet the Lord at the time of his return. Jesus warned: “Watch therefore: for you do not know when the lord of the house is coming … lest he come suddenly and find you sleeping” (Mk. 13:35-36). When Paul corresponded with the brothers in Thessalonica, he warned about a false sense of security. Folks will be relaxing in a delusional state of “peace and safety,” when suddenly destruction will come upon them. And so he admonished: “… let us not sleep, as do the rest, but let us watch and be sober” (1 Thes. 5:3-6). To be awake is thus to be vigilant, ever prepared.
Sleep is commonly used as a designation for death, both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament. David petitioned the Creator: “Consider and answer me, O Jehovah my God: Lighten my eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death” (Psa. 13:3).

When Lazarus of Bethany died, Jesus informed the disciples: “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep ….” The Master’s men did not comprehend the nature of his language. They initially thought that Christ spoke of natural sleep; he therefore had to tell them plainly: “Lazarus is dead” (Jn. 11:14).

Why is death figuratively depicted as sleep? First, there is a common appearance between a sleeping body and a corpse. The analogy is thus quite natural.

Second, just as the soul of the sleeper still exists, though oblivious to its material surroundings, even so, in death the soul of man is not extinct; rather, it is only unaware of earth’s environment. Solomon asserted that the dead have neither knowledge of, nor reward for, anything transpiring “under the sun,” i.e., on earth (Eccl. 9:5-6).

Third, as the sleeping person awakes and rises from his bed, just so, the dead will rise from their graves at the time of the Lord’s return. We must briefly pause and comment further about these final two points.

It is not the case, as alleged by some, that the dead are unconscious, i.e., they are in a state of mindless sleep, awaiting the day of judgment. There is ample evidence that the dead are entirely conscious in their own realm of existence. Both the rich man and Lazarus were cognizant (Lk. 16:23-25), and so were the martyred souls in John’s heavenly vision (Rev. 6:9-11). (For a more detailed discussion of this theme, see “Are the Dead Conscious?”)

Whenever the Bible describes death as a “sleep,” it is only the body that is under consideration. For example, Daniel referred to those who “sleep in the dust of the earth” (12:2). Note that the part of man which sleeps is that part which is planted in the dust. A common Greek word for the “sleep” of death is koimaomai (cf. Mt. 27:52), a kindred term to koimeterion, from which derives our word “cemetery,” the abode of dead bodies (see “Asleep,” W.E. Vine, Expository Dictionary).
Finally, as suggested above, the term “sleep” implies the future resurrection of the human body. In spite of the fact that there are some who say, “there is no resurrection of the dead” (cf. 1 Cor. 15:12), e.g., the advocates of “realized eschatology,” the Bible unequivocally teaches this doctrine.

Paul argues that Christ “is the firstfruits of them that are asleep” (1 Cor. 15:20). This is a clear affirmation that Christ’s bodily resurrection is Heaven’s pledge that we shall be raised similarly – the firstfruits being the initial harvest (cf. Ex. 23:16), and the guarantee of that which is to follow. As the Lord awoke from the dead, so shall we.

“Sleep” is an intriguing study – both from the literal and figurative perspectives. May we be enriched by an investigation of this theme.

shroom2 · Mar 29, 2012

jb said:

Most people's "fundamental problem" is that they believe tradition over what the bible says. You're taught your entire life by the church that when you die you "go to be with Jesus". It's not true. The devil is thrilled that most of Christianity believes it. They think death isn't that big of a deal, because they'll "be with Jesus".
Death is the end of life until the future rapture, when the dead in Christ shall be raised.

Laodicea · Mar 29, 2012

People can be decieved by satan impersonating dead people if we believe that we do not die. If we believe what the bible says that the dead do not know anything then we cannot be decieved

Tombo · Mar 29, 2012

shroom2 said:

I guess you've never been taught any Biblical truth by anyone or followed any traditions, shroom2? You came to all of your conclusions on your own with no input from anyone, ever???

Tom

shroom2 · Mar 29, 2012

Tombo said:

Of course not. No man is an island, and it's dangerous to be the lone ranger. Every man is taught by someone (Acts 8:31).

My point was that all your lives you were taught wrongly. And it freaks a lot of people out, they just cannot accept it.

I am fully aware that believing dead people are actually dead is not "the norm" for orthodox Christianity. But I also absolutely believe it's the truth of scripture.

God bless.

Tombo · Mar 29, 2012

shroom2 said:

I absolutely believe by the scriptures that you are wrong, and it has nothing to do with tradition or the Church. As you know, by my own study I've come to the conclusion that eternal conscious torment of the unsaved (something held by many Churches) is not a Biblical teaching. But when I've studied the question of the saved dead ceasing to exist, I cannot go along with it because of the overwhelming evidence of scripture. I see it plainly. I don't need to call some verses a hallucination when Moses and Elijah were speaking with the Lord about His upcoming suffering, or move commas around to support my case. I think that in your case you are following someone's tradition. You said you have a home fellowship and don't go to church. Why is that? Is it because you have found all that the Church teaches is false?
We must be careful when pointing the finger, we all follow teachers and traditions, some right, some we find to be wrong. But when someone says they have all truth apart from the Church, I get leery.

Tom

AnandaHya · Mar 29, 2012

peacefulbeliever said:

read all of John 11, Martha thought Jesus was referring to the resurrection in the last days too, but He said that in response to her statement.. she said this " “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

IF you are not dead and buried in Christ cruxification and raised again into NEW life with the Holy Spirit leading you then it you have not been born again. To be born again you are transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of Light.

1 co 15: 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.”[d] The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear[f] the image of the heavenly Man.

it talks about being born again and receiving the HOLY SPIRIT....

seriously... you have to be joking...

Psalm 116
3 The pains of death surrounded me,
And the pangs of Sheol laid hold of me;
I found trouble and sorrow.
4 Then I called upon the name of the Lord:
“O Lord, I implore You, deliver my soul!”
5 Gracious is the Lord, and righteous;
Yes, our God is merciful.
6 The Lord preserves the simple;
I was brought low, and He saved me.
7 Return to your rest, O my soul,
For the Lord has dealt bountifully with you.
8 For You have delivered my soul from death,
My eyes from tears,
And my feet from falling.
9 I will walk before the Lord
In the land of the living.
10 I believed, therefore I spoke,
“I am greatly afflicted.”
11 I said in my haste,
“All men are liars.”
12 What shall I render to the Lord
For all His benefits toward me?
13 I will take up the cup of salvation,
And call upon the name of the Lord.
14 I will pay my vows to the Lord
Now in the presence of all His people.

now WHERE are God's People?

Hebrews 12
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

interesting you ignore these verses from the same psalm:

3 O Lord, You brought my soul up from the grave;
You have kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.[a]

that was a heartfelt prayer... God's answer is in Psalm 91. ..

dead referred to here are the spiritually dead idol worshipers. the Faithful say this "18 But we will bless the Lord
From this time forth and forevermore."

from this time forth and forevermore... hmmm does forever still mean forever?

yes satan can make people quite depressed.... ever heard of a metaphor? they use the word "as"

John 14
19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”

23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

25 “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28 You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said,[e] ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.

read in context you can see He is talking about sending the HOLY SPIRIT....those who have been born again SEE Christ through His Holy Spirit for Jesus said "I am going away and coming back to you" and that He would not leave them orphans.

why do you think this has to do with Jesus second coming to destroy the world and replace it with a NEW Heaven and NEW Earth? If it was to do with the final Judgement day, then why would there be a need for mansions in Heaven? for Revelations 21 reveals that the saints dwell in the NEW Earth. therefore it makes more sense for Jesus to take those who die in Him to Heaven with Him.

the dead in Revelation 20 are referring to those who rejected Jesus as their Savior and were not born again in the Spirit. they did not receive the Morning Star. they did not have Jesus living within them.

2 Peter 1
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed,[a] which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God[c] spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Revelation 2
25 But hold fast what you have till I come. 26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

27 ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’[j]—
as I also have received from My Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star.

Revelation 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

Revelation 3
18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

nit all...

Spiritual_Plague · Mar 29, 2012

peacefulbeliever said:

This statement isn't true though. Jesus taught something different:

Mat 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul..."

When the body dies, the soul still lives.

shroom2 · Mar 29, 2012

Tombo said:

I have never said, nor do I believe, that we have "all truth". That would be ludicrous, and the pinnacle of pride.

You're going to believe what you want, Tom, and be convinced you're right, and insist you have the "overwhelming evidence of scripture" on your side. As will I. I believe the bible teaches the concept of immediate life after death is false. The dead in Christ shall be raised. They are dead, they shall be raised. You insist that "absent from the body" proves we split apart at death, that death is merely a "separation". I believe the bible says death is an enemy, and that we will be absent from the body when Jesus Christ returns. People live and die. They don't "separate". God will raise people from the dead, not "bodies to be reunited with their soul".

For the record, I have never called any verse a "hallucination".

God bless.

AnandaHya · Mar 30, 2012

Laodicea said:

???

Satan and his demons possess living people and lead others astray all the time. Mediums are forbidden so how does that have anything to do with the conversation of where the righteous saints go upon death?

Saul had a medium try and raise Samuel who was a prophet of God, he was condemned for it. why would people follow his bad example and try and contact people who have passed on?

the Spiritually dead do not know anything, we are talking about those God finds blameless....

AnandaHya · Mar 30, 2012

shroom2 said:

hmmm wonder what you do with this verse then...

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

dust = body,,, breath of life = spirit....

hmmm sounds like they get separated to me... one goes to Earth other goes to God who gave it.....

Laodicea · Mar 30, 2012

The spirit or breath of life does go back to God but the breath of life does not have conciousness. The breath of life is the life giving force which comes from God.

Tombo · Mar 30, 2012

shroom2 said:

Not in so many words, but your teaching does. Anyone who reads the account of the disciples seeing their Lord transformed into His true glory and speaking with Moses and Elijah about His impending death at Jerusalem, and then says it's a vision, Moses and Elijah aren't really there, they are dead, is calling it a hallucination. A hallucination is seeing something or someone that isn't there.

Tom

Laodicea · Mar 30, 2012

The transfiguration of Christ was real it was not a vision. Moses was resurrected while Elijah was translated and they represent the coming of Christ and 2 classes of God's people, those who will be resurected and those who will be translated

Laodicea · Mar 30, 2012

Also Jesus said that some would not see death till the had seen Christ coming. Peter, James and John seen Christ's coming in type.

Spiritual_Plague · Mar 30, 2012

Not so sure about that, but He did say...

Mar 9:1 "And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power."

Laodicea · Mar 30, 2012

Jesus was referring to the transfiguration cause it happened just after he said that

shroom2 · Mar 30, 2012

AnandaHya said:

hmmm... lets see.

"Living being" is nephesh. Soul. Man is a living soul, made of breath life and a body.

No. Breath of life is soul. Soul is simply breath life. It is not spirit.

What returns to God in Ecc 12:7 is the spirit from God. Holy spirit. It's not "you", it's the holy spirit you have from God (for those who have it).

When you die, you die. Your body rots, soul simply gives life to the body, it dies, and holy spirit, for those who had it, returns to God who gave it.

hmmm Dead people are dead.

The dead are asleep

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