The dead are asleep

[Spiritual_Plague]

When you die, you die. Your body rots, soul simply gives life to the body, it dies, and holy spirit, for those who had it, returns to God who gave it.

hmmm Dead people are dead.

When the body dies, the soul does not die:

Mat 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul..."

The soul continues to live after the body dies. To say otherwise contradicts Jesus' teaching about it.

 

[shroom2]

The transfiguration of Christ was real it was not a vision.

Jesus Christ plainly called it a vision. It was not real. Moses and Elijah are still dead, and will be raised at the resurrection of the just.

Moses was resurrected

John 3:13

while Elijah was translated

into the sky to underscore the transfer of authority to Elisha.

and they represent the coming of Christ and 2 classes of God's people, those who will be resurected and those who will be translated

No, they do not.

The transfiguration was a vision given by God to Jesus Christ, which others saw, to strengthen him, to show him what the future would be like if he stood faithful unto death.

 

[Spiritual_Plague]

Mat 17:9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead."

The same greek word for vision is also used in:

Act 12:9 So he went out and followed him, and did not know that what was done by the angel was real, but thought he was seeing a vision.



Act 7:31 "When Moses saw [it], he marveled at the vision; and as he drew near to observe, the voice of the Lord came to him,


The word vision is used for things that weren't really happening and things that really were happening (unless you can prove that the burning bush didn't actually happened).


So to use the word "vision" and claim it did happen isn't enough evidence that it did, nor is using the word "vision" and claim that it did not happen is not enough evidence that it did not happen.

 

[shroom2]

When the body dies, the soul does not die:

Mat 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul..."

The soul continues to live after the body dies. To say otherwise contradicts Jesus' teaching about it.

Read it again. It does not say the soul lives on. You are reading into it, and plucking out the phrase that seems to support your belief.

Here is the full verse:

28) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Jesus was about to send the apostles out witnessing. He was telling them not to be afraid of men. The worst they can do is kill you. He was telling them to fear God, who at the time of judgment has the power to give eternal life or destroy.

 

[Laodicea]

God said
Genesis 2:17
(17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Satan said
Genesis 3:4
(4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

 

[Spiritual_Plague]

I read it again... to kill the body does not kill the soul, otherwise men could kill the soul.

Mat 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul..."

men cannot kill the soul...only the body. If men kill the body...the soul is still alive.

 

[krisbrian]

This is turning into a never ending tennis match.....just going back and forth, back and forth. I think the evidence has been laid out very clearly. If people still want to believe they cease to exist when they die, let them. They are just going to be pleasantly surprised when they take their last breath and then open their spiritual eyes and see a new reality.

 

[krisbrian]

God said
Genesis 2:17
(17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Satan said
Genesis 3:4
(4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[Laodicea]

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

John 11:24-25
(24) Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
(25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

 

[shroom2]

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

The context is at the resurrection.

 

[krisbrian]

The context is at the resurrection.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Everlasting
G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

 

[Laodicea]

I read it again... to kill the body does not kill the soul, otherwise men could kill the soul.

Mat 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul..."

men cannot kill the soul...only the body. If men kill the body...the soul is still alive.

It does not say that the soul is eternal. There is no text in the Bible that links eternal and soul. Although people may die or even be killed God can resurrect people
John 5:28-29
(28) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
(29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 6:39-40
(39) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
(40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


I ask this to all, do a search in the Bible and give me an honest answer, Is there a text in the Bible that links eternal with soul

 

[Laodicea]

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Everlasting
G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

When do the wicked perish? When are God's people given immortality?

 

[krisbrian]

When do the wicked perish? When are God's people given immortality?

I believe our spirit becomes immortal the moment we accept Christ.

The wicked are spiritually dead right now...

Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Physical death is separation of the spirit from the body. Spiritual death is separation of the spirit from God.

 

[Laodicea]

I believe our spirit becomes immortal the moment we accept Christ.

The wicked are spiritually dead right now...

Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Physical death is separation of the spirit from the body. Spiritual death is separation of the spirit from God.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[krisbrian]

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Not "will" have everlasting life but "HATH" everlasting life....perpetual

 

[Laodicea]

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Not "will" have everlasting life but "HATH" everlasting life....perpetual

Romans 8:1-2
(1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[krisbrian]

We have tried to help you see the truth...if you still cant see it, then....I can do nothing for you son! - YouTube

 

[peacefulbeliever]

read all of John 11, Martha thought Jesus was referring to the resurrection in the last days too, but He said that in response to her statement.. she said this " “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

I bet Lazarus was upset when he was already in heaven having a great blessed time and all of a sudden he was jerked back to life here on earth. John 11 This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God that the Son of God might be glorified. Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. . .I am t he resurrection and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?. . .Yea Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world. This was done to show the glory of God for the people which stood by that they could believe God had sent him. Then many of the Jews which came to Mary and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him. We will die but we shall live again.

IF you are not dead and buried in Christ cruxification and raised again into NEW life with the Holy Spirit leading you then it you have not been born again. To be born again you are transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of Light.

Spiritually I am dead and buried in Christ and spiritually I have been given new life through the gift of holy spirit and I have been transferred spiritually from darkness into the kingdom of light. And because of all this I will literally be raised in the resurrection.

1 co 15: 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.”[d] The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear[f] the image of the heavenly Man.
it talks about being born again and receiving the HOLY SPIRIT....

No - this is speaking of the resurrection.
seriously... you have to be joking...

Psalm 116
3 The pains of death surrounded me,
And the pangs of Sheol laid hold of me;
I found trouble and sorrow.
4 Then I called upon the name of the Lord:
“O Lord, I implore You, deliver my soul!”
5 Gracious is the Lord, and righteous;
Yes, our God is merciful.
6 The Lord preserves the simple;
I was brought low, and He saved me.
7 Return to your rest, O my soul,
For the Lord has dealt bountifully with you.
8 For You have delivered my soul from death,
My eyes from tears,
And my feet from falling.
9 I will walk before the Lord
In the land of the living.
10 I believed, therefore I spoke,
“I am greatly afflicted.”
11 I said in my haste,
“All men are liars.”
12 What shall I render to the Lord
For all His benefits toward me?
13 I will take up the cup of salvation,
And call upon the name of the Lord.
14 I will pay my vows to the Lord
Now in the presence of all His people.
now WHERE are God's People?

They are in the grave awaiting their deliverance at the resurrection of the just. v9 I will walk before the Lord in the land of the living - v14 I will pay my vows to the Lord Now in the presence of all His people. Now in the land of the living.

Hebrews 12
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Future - Rev. 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God which is the new Jerusalem which cometh down out of heave from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 21:1,2,10,23 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away:. . .And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, . .

interesting you ignore these verses from the same psalm:
3 O Lord, You brought my soul up from the grave;
You have kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.[a]

How did God bring his soul (life) up from the grave and kept him alive so that he wouldn't go down to the grave - He healed him. (v2)

that was a heartfelt prayer... God's answer is in Psalm 91. ..

?

dead referred to here are the spiritually dead idol worshipers. the Faithful say this "18 But we will bless the Lord From this time forth and forevermore."
from this time forth and forevermore... hmmm does forever still mean forever?

Yes, you are correct - I apologize for using this verse out of context. Yes, we will bless the Lord while we are living and after we are resurrected.

yes satan can make people quite depressed.... ever heard of a metaphor? they use the word "as"
John 14
19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”

23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

25 “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28 You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said,[e] ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.

read in context you can see He is talking about sending the HOLY SPIRIT....those who have been born again SEE Christ through His Holy Spirit for Jesus said "I am going away and coming back to you" and that He would not leave them orphans.

Yes, and many other figures of speech employed throughout the Bible.
Yes, he v27b Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid (v1) v28 You have heard me say to you I am going away and coming back to you (v2&3) He is coming back to receive us unto himself that where he is there we shall be also. That is when - "because I live, ye shall live also" (v19b) will become a reality.

why do you think this has to do with Jesus second coming to destroy the world and replace it with a NEW Heaven and NEW Earth? If it was to do with the final Judgement day, then why would there be a need for mansions in Heaven? for Revelations 21 reveals that the saints dwell in the NEW Earth. therefore it makes more sense for Jesus to take those who die in Him to Heaven with Him.

You would have to ask Jesus why he said "In my Father's house are many mansions". Key -" I will come again, and receive you unto myself that where I am there ye may be also."

the dead in Revelation 20 are referring to those who rejected Jesus as their Savior and were not born again in the Spirit. they did not receive the Morning Star. they did not have Jesus living within them.

2 Peter 1
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed,[a] which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God[c] spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
<snip>

Right - no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation - it needs to be taken as a whole - and must have harmony throughout. We are also to Study to shew ourselves approved unto God rightly dividing the word of truth so that we will not be ashamed. (2 Tim. 3:15)

God bless.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

This is turning into a never ending tennis match.....just going back and forth, back and forth. I think the evidence has been laid out very clearly. If people still want to believe they cease to exist when they die, let them. They are just going to be pleasantly surprised when they take their last breath and then open their spiritual eyes and see a new reality.

With this I agree - And actually that is how it is going to be even for us who believe that we cease to exist when we die - In a moment in the twinkling of an eye - we sleep and the next remembrance will be the resurrection. So when we take our last breath and open our eyes - we will be in the presence of God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

God bless.