The dead are asleep

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L

Laodicea

Guest
#161
#161
krisbrian said:
These verse's prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that we can exist outside the body, unless Paul was badly mistaken, and if he was, then that opens up a serious can of worms.

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

And these verse's prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that the dead are still alive. And notice what they were talking about....it proves the conversation was in real time.

Deu 34:7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died:

Luk 9:30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
Luk 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
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2 Corinthians 12:1
(1) It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
Deuteronomy 34:6
(6) And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.
Jude 1:9
(9) Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Paul had a vision while Moses died was buried and resurrected

 
K

krisbrian

Guest
#162
#162
Laodicea said:


Paul had a vision while Moses died was buried and resurrected
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Pure conjecture and you often accuse others of not using the bible to prove a point?

The only resurrection that has ever occurred was after Jesus's death on the cross.

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#163
#163
krisbrian said:
Pure conjecture and you often accuse others of not using the bible to prove a point?

The only resurrection that has ever occurred was after Jesus's death on the cross.

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
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The verse in Jude shows that Moses was resurrected
 
K

krisbrian

Guest
#164
#164
Laodicea said:
The verse in Jude shows that Moses was resurrected
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It shows no such thing. Only that there was a dispute over his body. As to what that dispute is about, is pure conjecture.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#165
#165
krisbrian said:
It shows no such thing. Only that there was a dispute over his body. As to what that dispute is about, is pure conjecture.
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Moses is in heaven so it was over his resurrection. Why else would they be disputing over Moses body?
 
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K

krisbrian

Guest
#166
#166
Laodicea said:
Moses is in heaven so it was over his resurrection. Why else would they be disputing over Moses body?
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We simply dont know.

Here is one suggestion, but once again, its a guessing game. Some think the Devil wanted to use the body of Moses as an object of Idol worship to lead the children of Israel away.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#167
#167
krisbrian said:
These verse's prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that we can exist outside the body, unless Paul was badly mistaken, and if he was, then that opens up a serious can of worms.

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

And these verse's prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that the dead are still alive. And notice what they were talking about....it proves the conversation was in real time.

Deu 34:7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died:

Luk 9:30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
Luk 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
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When we die our soul dies
Leviticus 21:11
(11) Neither shall he go in to any dead body, nor defile himself for his father, or for his mother;

The word body in red is translated from the same word as soul/ For more info on the soul go to this:-
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/38496-what-spirit-soul-2.html#post663558
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#168
#168
krisbrian said:
We simply dont know.

Here is one suggestion, but once again, its a guessing game. Some think the Devil wanted to use the body of Moses as an object of Idol worship to lead the children of Israel away.
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But the Bible does say Moses is alive. The Bible does say that Moses died and was buried. The Bible does say that they disputed the body of Moses. So if we put together the info in the Bible about Moses what do we have? Resurrection.

Acts 3:20-23
(20) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
(21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
(22) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
(23) And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Moses was a type of Christ, Moses was resurrected so was Christ

 
K

krisbrian

Guest
#169
#169
Laodicea said:
But the Bible does say Moses is alive. The Bible does say that Moses died and was buried. The Bible does say that they disputed the body of Moses. So if we put together the info in the Bible about Moses what do we have? Resurrection.
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Of course this is the only possible explanation for those who hold to the soul sleep doctrine. I believe Moses is alive. I believe Moses is in Heaven. It does not require that Moses have a resurrected body for me to believe this.

I will at least give you credit for acknowledging the fact that Moses is alive instead of trying to explain that away in a ridiculous matter like others do.
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#170
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
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#170
Josh 1:2) Moses my servant is dead;

John 3:13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Moses is still dead. He will be raised at the resurrection of the just.
 
2knowhim

2knowhim

Banned
#171
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
0
#171
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, (made alive) except it die:

Moses died long before The Lord buried him. When Moses buried the Egyptian in the sand, he was declaring his own death. Ex.2:11,12



1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


Blessings
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#172
#172
krisbrian said:
Of course this is the only possible explanation for those who hold to the soul sleep doctrine. I believe Moses is alive. I believe Moses is in Heaven. It does not require that Moses have a resurrected body for me to believe this.

I will at least give you credit for acknowledging the fact that Moses is alive instead of trying to explain that away in a ridiculous matter like others do.
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Moses is in heaven with a real body not some spirit, that is why they disputed Moses body
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#173
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
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#173
2knowhim said:
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, (made alive) except it die:

Moses died long before The Lord buried him. When Moses buried the Egyptian in the sand, he was declaring his own death. Ex.2:11,12

1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


Blessings
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I have no idea what you're saying.

Moses buried the Egyptian because he didn't want to get caught.
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#174
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
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#174
Laodicea said:
Moses is in heaven with a real body not some spirit, that is why they disputed Moses body
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John 3:13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#175
#175
shroom2 said:
John 3:13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
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Moses was taken to heaven he did not ascend into heaven on his own, first he was resurrected with a new body then he was taken to heaven as was Elijah it says he was taken
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#176
#176
shroom2 said:
Our "souls" do not "go" anywhere. We, as people, as living beings, simply die. It really is that simple.
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So, Jesus, who was a man like us, did not go to Hades? Will you explain to me why He said, "You (God) will not leave my soul in Hades"? Why did He say to the thief on the cross, "You will be with me in Paradise today"? The theif did not go either?


Sorry about all the questions, but I am confused because it "seems" people are saying that the Bible teaches that we die and await for Jesus second coming. That is, He forsakes us in Hades even if for a second until He returns. And yet, others are saying that He would never forsake us and that we will be with Him at His return to receive our bodies.

So, are we dead or with Him?
 
2knowhim

2knowhim

Banned
#177
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
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#177
shroom2 said:
I have no idea what you're saying.

Moses buried the Egyptian because he didn't want to get caught.
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Shroom, see with the eyes of The Spirit, Moses was raised in the house of Pharoah as an Egyptian.

Him killing the Egyptian was a type of him declaring his death to the old man, and him burying him in the sand, the dust of the earth, is a type of where Adam came from.

Here is where he chose to suffer the reproach of the children of Israel, than to enjoy the wealth of Egypt.


Blessings
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#178
#178
Laodicea said:

All the words in red in these verses are all translated from the same word, so according to all this what does it mean when the Bible talks about sleep in death?
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I do not mean to be argumentative, just trying to understand. Listen to my reasoning and correct me if I am wrong:

For me to sleep means I am taking a rest from my deeds, in the very same way God took a rest from His deeds, and called that rest Sabbath.

So, if my body is dead, then I am resting from my body's deeds.

What is your take of sleep?
 
K

krisbrian

Guest
#179
#179
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The word "have" is present tense when it says "have everlasting life". That means you have everlasting life NOW, if you believe.

Everlasting
G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

Everlasting
G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
Thayer Definition:
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, NEVER TO CEASE, everlasting
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#180
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#180
2knowhim said:
Shroom, see with the eyes of The Spirit, Moses was raised in the house of Pharoah as an Egyptian.

Him killing the Egyptian was a type of him declaring his death to the old man, and him burying him in the sand, the dust of the earth, is a type of where Adam came from.

Here is where he chose to suffer the reproach of the children of Israel, than to enjoy the wealth of Egypt.

Blessings
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We are to see the spiritual meaning when there is one. I believe you often see what is not there.
 
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