The dead are asleep

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krisbrian

Guest
#201
#201
krisbrian said:
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The word "have" is present tense when it says "have everlasting life". That means you have everlasting life NOW, if you believe.

Everlasting
G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

Everlasting
G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
Thayer Definition:
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, NEVER TO CEASE, everlasting
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Explain to me how soul sleep can be true without John 3:16 being a lie?

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

"have" is in the present tense so there is now way its talking about we will recieve everlasting life in the future resurrection. Its saying you have everlasting life NOW.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#202
#202
krisbrian said:
Explain to me how soul sleep can be true without John 3:16 being a lie?

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

"have" is in the present tense so there is now way its talking about we will recieve everlasting life in the future resurrection. Its saying you have everlasting life NOW.
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First you show me from the Bible what does the Bible mean when it calls death a sleep? I asked this at the start of the thread. Show me from the Bible your answer
 
K

krisbrian

Guest
#203
#203
Laodicea said:
First you show me from the Bible what does the Bible mean when it calls death a sleep? I asked this at the start of the thread. Show me from the Bible your answer
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Gen 25:8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.

Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Mat 22:32 I am (present tense) the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.


So obviously, sleep is a description of the flesh after death, not the spirit.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#204
#204
krisbrian said:
Gen 25:8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.

Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Mat 22:32 I am (present tense) the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.


So obviously, sleep is a description of the flesh after death, not the spirit.
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That does not explain anything about death as a sleep, you have not addressed the texts I put up, you have just used the same old texts that you always do like a broken record. Please address the texts I put up in this post
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/38967-dead-asleep-10.html#post664171
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#205
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#205
Tombo said:
You weren't frustrated with me at all??? Come on shroom, no one uses the language you did in a happy manner!!!! Be truthful.

Tom
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I was angry with you, not "happy" or frustrated. I stand by what I said, and would say it again.
 
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Tombo

Guest
#206
#206
shroom2 said:
I was angry with you, not "happy" or frustrated. I stand by what I said, and would say it again.
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I have no doubt you would. When truth is subjective instead of relying on God's objective word, anything goes.

Tom
 
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shroom2

Banned
#207
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#207
Tombo said:
I have no doubt you would. When truth is subjective instead of relying on God's objective word, anything goes.

Tom
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Indeed. For some, apparently they feel their "truth" gives them the right to declare who is Christian and who isn't.
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#208
#208
shroom2 said:
Indeed. For some, apparently they feel their "truth" gives them the right to declare who is Christian and who isn't.
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Anyone who denies the divinty of Christ, or insists that all will be saved, does not have the truth the Bible speaks of.
Sorry, but that's not subjective, that is Biblical truth.

Tom
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#209
#209
shroom2 said:
I was angry with you, not "happy" or frustrated. I stand by what I said, and would say it again.
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Please refrain from this and stick to the topic
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#210
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#210
Tombo said:
Anyone who denies the divinty of Christ -snip- does not have the truth the Bible speaks of.
Sorry, but that's not subjective, that is Biblical truth.

Tom
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No, it's religion.

I'm going to honor Laodicea's request and not respond on this subject any more in this thread.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#211
#211
shroom2 said:
No, it's religion.

I'm going to honor Laodicea's request and not respond on this subject any more in this thread.
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It is ok to respond as long as you stay with the subject matter
 
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LawofLove

Guest
#213
#213
Israel said:
Do all people sleep at death? What of those that have eternal life in them now?
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""Do all people sleep at death?""
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
The end of death will coincide with the end of sin. When there is no more sin, there will be no more death, for death results from sin (see on Rom. 6:21, 23; James 1:15).

""What of those that have eternal life in them now?""
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


 
J

jb

Senior Member
#214
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#214
shroom2 said:
Jesus Christ plainly called it a vision. It was not real....
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I nearly fell off my chair laughing at this! :D

You're certainly good for a laugh dude...go on, pick another cherry! :p
 
K

krisbrian

Guest
#215
#215
Laodicea said:
That does not explain anything about death as a sleep, you have not addressed the texts I put up, you have just used the same old texts that you always do like a broken record. Please address the texts I put up in this post
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/38967-dead-asleep-10.html#post664171
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I have nothing more to say. I have provided enough verses to prove beyond any doubt that the dead dont sleep, only their flesh is "asleep". You just cant or wont accept it. The words of Jesus have made it very clear that the dead dont sleep. So, your interpretation of all the verses in the first post of this thread must be wrong....period, unless you want to say Jesus has lied. And you are right, this whole thread has become a broken record. The evidence is there, accept it or dont.
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#216
#216
krisbrian said:
I have nothing more to say. I have provided enough verses to prove beyond any doubt that the dead dont sleep, only their flesh is "asleep". You just cant or wont accept it. The words of Jesus have made it very clear that the dead dont sleep. So, your interpretation of all the verses in the first post of this thread must be wrong....period, unless you want to say Jesus has lied. And you are right, this whole thread has become a broken record. The evidence is there, accept it or dont.
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I accept the Bible But, not your interpretation of it. In my first post I did not offer an opinion Just quoted the Bible. It is the Bible that says the dead are asleep, it is the Bible that says the dead do not know anything. You have not shown beyond any doubt, in your own mind you think it is beyond doubt. You have an incorrect understanding of the spirit and soul. This will explain what is the spirit and soul.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/38496-what-spirit-soul.html#post653427

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/38496-what-spirit-soul-2.html#post663558

Go to this thread and respond to what is the spirit and soul.


In all the Bible there is no text that says the spirit or soul is eternal.
 
K

krisbrian

Guest
#217
#217
Laodicea said:
I accept the Bible But, not your interpretation of it.
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Basically this is what it boils down to. We just dont see it the same way. Like when people look at that picture of a vase, and some people see two faces, and other people just simply see a vase. We can look at the same verses and we are just not going to see the same thing. Its obvious your mind is made up about the matter, and so is mine....so really....whats the point in continuing? Do you have any intention of changing your view? Probably not, and neither do I.
 
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C

cfultz3

Guest
#218
#218
In studying the Bible, I came across this verse and I would like to share it with this thread. Take note that the angel, which can also be translated as messegener, said that he was John's brother from the prophets. For him to have been a prophet, then he must have been a man once. Then one must ask if he is one who was raised with Jesus, a New Testament saint, or even, cannot think of the names atm, one of the two who was translated to Heaven in the Old Testament. Which ever group he is from, one must answer for themselves if we do or do not experience spiritual death until Jesus comes back or the saints are with Him now, still fulfilling the Gospel.

Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#219
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#219
cfultz3 said:
In studying the Bible, I came across this verse and I would like to share it with this thread. Take note that the angel, which can also be translated as messegener, said that he was John's brother from the prophets. For him to have been a prophet, then he must have been a man once. Then one must ask if he is one who was raised with Jesus, a New Testament saint, or even, cannot think of the names atm, one of the two who was translated to Heaven in the Old Testament. Which ever group he is from, one must answer for themselves if we do or do not experience spiritual death until Jesus comes back or the saints are with Him now, still fulfilling the Gospel.

Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
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Who do you think this angel (messenger) of (v.8) is being referring to, a literal angel from the host of heaven or a messenger sent as a fellowservant, of the brethren of the prophets who keep the sayings of this book?
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#220
#220
Red33 said:
Who do you think this angel (messenger) of (v.8) is being referring to, a literal angel from the host of heaven or a messenger sent as a fellowservant, of the brethren of the prophets who keep the sayings of this book?
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I do not know. But, what stricked me the most was that he said he was a brother from the prophets. But if I am pressed for an answer, I would say a messenger who was once a prophet, and thus, was a fellow human servant. I think if he were an angel, he would have said something along the line that he was a created being also.

I understand that prophets are messengers,
I understand that Revelation was written for humans (Rev 1:1),
I understand that humans are to keep the sayings of Revelation.

But, of course, this is assumption and I would like to be either corrected or affirmed ONLY from Scripture.

What do you think?
 
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