IS IT ALLRIGHT to Pray To Others Than Jesus,like the Virgin Mary Or Saints???

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Do U Believe in Praying To Others Besides Jesus Such as The Virgin Mary Or Saints???

  • YES I DO

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • NOT SURE ON THIS.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No I Do Not.

    Votes: 12 92.3%

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .
C

cfultz3

Guest
#41
Perhaps I should I have referenced my quote.

That's a direct quote from Scripture by Our Lord, in the gospel of Mark actually. Mark 12:27 actually.

So tell me, who should I believe... You? Or Our Lord's own words who testify that the saints in Heaven are alive?
In this point you are correct in saying that the saints are not dead. But to imply that it is ok to pray (venerate, intreat, etc...) to anyone except God is contracy not only to Scripture but pure logic. Both sides of that contraction I pointed out is penned in the knowledge that God and God alone is to be venerated, intreated. There is only one Mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ. Who else is needed to act on your behalf? The Son is not able to perform His own position?
 
K

kayem77

Guest
#42
If it's not in the Bible, don't do it. If there aren't any examples of people doing it, if not one of the Apostles ever adviced you to do it, why do you incorporate those practices? And no, praying for your friends on earth is not the same, and I don't pray to them anyway, I pray FOR them to God through Jesus Christ.

God would have made it clear if it was necessary to pray to others than himself, our God is not a God of chaos, I think he would have made it clear and the Apostles would have mentioned something in their epistles. Another thing to consider is that in actual practice most catholics pray to those saints, they don't ask them to pray for them, they pray TO THEM, their send their petitions to them, they cry out to them, they put their faith on them, which makes it even worse.

PS. I'm not being a hater, but when I see false teaching, I just can't stand it. Especially when I was personally involved in those doctrines, as it is my family.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,246
6,538
113
#43
Perhaps I should I have referenced my quote.

That's a direct quote from Scripture by Our Lord, in the gospel of Mark actually. Mark 12:27 actually.

So tell me, who should I believe... You? Or Our Lord's own words who testify that the saints in Heaven are alive?
Are you saying the resurrection has occurred? There is no sounding of the last trumpet? The dead will not rise first followed by those who are living to meet Jesus in the clouds?

If so, where are you getting your information? Is this from the hierarchy of your organization? The teachings to which I refer are from the Word. These teachings are also in the Bibles used by the Roman church.

I will only stand on the teachings guided by the Holy Spirit, as do all who believe Them.
 

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
0
#44
Are you saying the resurrection has occurred? There is no sounding of the last trumpet? The dead will not rise first followed by those who are living to meet Jesus in the clouds?

If so, where are you getting your information? Is this from the hierarchy of your organization? The teachings to which I refer are from the Word. These teachings are also in the Bibles used by the Roman church.

I will only stand on the teachings guided by the Holy Spirit, as do all who believe Them.
And God has sent His Holy Spirit to His Church, to guide and protect it from error. Remember it is the Church which is the pillar and foundation of Truth according to Scripture.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,246
6,538
113
#45
And God has sent His Holy Spirit to His Church, to guide and protect it from error. Remember it is the Church which is the pillar and foundation of Truth according to Scripture.
Repost:
There was a time long ago when the people who believe Jesus were just as I am. They knew He was a Jew, and they knew He is the Word of God Who created all that is. There was no such thing as a procession, because they were taught to worship God, and to never make images to worship. When they spoke of those who slept, they spoke only of them and never to them, because the loving Father warned them not to do so.
These faithful were comprised first of Jews who believe Jesus, Whom they called by His name given by God, Yeshua. Second came the people of the nations who gladly received the gospel of Yeshua because all the world had wandered from the Living God, of course this was allowed by God until this point in what we now call time.
Bit by bit, a little here and a little there, the other nations, being jealous of the chosen nation, distanced themselves as much as they were able from God's people. By the way, at this point, God's people were comprised of Jews who believe Yeshua and non-Jews who embraced the faith of Abraham and were transformed into the people of God also.
Those others began by changing the name, Yeshua, to Jesus. This is not important as long as the believer knows He was born a Jew, and recognizes their own nation, Israel of God. The capital of the Israel of God, New Jerusalem is not yet here, but it will come down from God on His day.
The jealous of God's people hated them so much that they soon began a steady stream of changing the Word of God as though it proceeded from God Himself. They changed the decalogue of God given to Moses in denying the seventh day as the legitimate Sabbath declared by God, Himself. They began to make images of individuals canonized and sainted by man and not by God. Then they began worshipping these wooden, marble, plastic and all materialed images with a myriad of names for some of them totally confusing the ignorant masses. Those who know better have been noted, and this will not go unrewarded.
Yeshua warned the apostasy would abound by the time He returns, and it does, although it has always existed to some extent, today many feigned faithful are speaking in place of Yahweh. The decent believers are now talking amongst themselves about this, and Yahweh is hearing every detail.
Yahweh has not changed the faith nor Himself, but people with sinful motivation have damned much of humanity in their heathen teachings.
This is what I believe based on studying the Word in prayer and meditation for many years. There are many more who believe the same, and we actually may say in faith, we know this.
Yahweh bless all who love the truth of His Word, always in Yeshua, amen.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#46
Repost:
There was a time long ago when the people who believe Jesus were just as I am. They knew He was a Jew, and they knew He is the Word of God Who created all that is. There was no such thing as a procession, because they were taught to worship God, and to never make images to worship. When they spoke of those who slept, they spoke only of them and never to them, because the loving Father warned them not to do so.
These faithful were comprised first of Jews who believe Jesus, Whom they called by His name given by God, Yeshua. Second came the people of the nations who gladly received the gospel of Yeshua because all the world had wandered from the Living God, of course this was allowed by God until this point in what we now call time.
Bit by bit, a little here and a little there, the other nations, being jealous of the chosen nation, distanced themselves as much as they were able from God's people. By the way, at this point, God's people were comprised of Jews who believe Yeshua and non-Jews who embraced the faith of Abraham and were transformed into the people of God also.
Those others began by changing the name, Yeshua, to Jesus. This is not important as long as the believer knows He was born a Jew, and recognizes their own nation, Israel of God. The capital of the Israel of God, New Jerusalem is not yet here, but it will come down from God on His day.
The jealous of God's people hated them so much that they soon began a steady stream of changing the Word of God as though it proceeded from God Himself. They changed the decalogue of God given to Moses in denying the seventh day as the legitimate Sabbath declared by God, Himself. They began to make images of individuals canonized and sainted by man and not by God. Then they began worshipping these wooden, marble, plastic and all materialed images with a myriad of names for some of them totally confusing the ignorant masses. Those who know better have been noted, and this will not go unrewarded.
Yeshua warned the apostasy would abound by the time He returns, and it does, although it has always existed to some extent, today many feigned faithful are speaking in place of Yahweh. The decent believers are now talking amongst themselves about this, and Yahweh is hearing every detail.
Yahweh has not changed the faith nor Himself, but people with sinful motivation have damned much of humanity in their heathen teachings.
This is what I believe based on studying the Word in prayer and meditation for many years. There are many more who believe the same, and we actually may say in faith, we know this.
Yahweh bless all who love the truth of His Word, always in Yeshua, amen.
My blessed Brother,

Your words speaks volumn to those who love Truth, march on. Even if one can be saved, it is all worth it.


Until we meet in Heaven
 
I

Inaperfectworld93

Guest
#47
I just read about praying to saints and yes, it's wrong.

John attempted to "worship" an angel he responded with "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!" [Revelations 22:9-10]
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,086
190
63
#48
And God has sent His Holy Spirit to His Church, to guide and protect it from error. Remember it is the Church which is the pillar and foundation of Truth according to Scripture.

According to scripture, your catholic church is full of Abominable things that Almighty Yahvah God detests.

When did Almighty Yahvah God change his Ten commandments? He did not.

How can you believe that the catholic church is of Almighty Yahvah God?

All they did was infiltrate the truth to bring the sheep back into their fields.

Well, not all the sheep feed from their field, and they like to tell fellow sheep to come to the green pastures, on behalf of Almighty Yahvah God and Yahshua our Messiah.
 
K

kujo313

Guest
#49
And God has sent His Holy Spirit to His Church, to guide and protect it from error. Remember it is the Church which is the pillar and foundation of Truth according to Scripture.
You must test the spirits to see if it's from God. God's Spirit will not go against His Word.

Jesus said that He is THE Way and no one goes to the Father but by Him. Therefore, we are to go TO God in Jesus' Name.

It is not of God to go another way or a detour. There is one name in Heaven for which we are saved.
 

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
0
#50
I just read about praying to saints and yes, it's wrong.

John attempted to "worship" an angel he responded with "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!" [Revelations 22:9-10]
"Worship" is different from "pray"

We don't worship saints. We never had, and it's a grave sin to do so.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#51
"Worship" is different from "pray"
We don't worship saints. We never had, and it's a grave sin to do so.
Take, just for one example, the prayer to st. Dymphna - Hope which is found at: Saint - Prayers - Catholic Online
 
Good St. Dymphna, --- Jesus said, "Why call me good? None is good but one, God." - Mat 19:17, Mat 19:17

you placed all your hopein Christ's promises, and sacrificed even your life in that hope. --- Jesus placed His hope in God, and sacrificed His life in that hope.

The Lord, God, rewarded your constancy by making your name known and loved over many centuries by the thousands --- Because Jesus did place His hope in the Father's good work of salvation, God placed His name above every other name. - Php 2:9

whom you have aided in time of difficulty. Please assist us now in our present necessity, --- Help comes from the Lord. - Hos 13:9, Mat 15:25, Mar 9:22, Act 26:22, Heb 4:16

and intercede before God for our intentions. --- There is but one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. - 1Ti 2:5

Obtain for us a firm hope like your own in God's unfailing protection. --- Hope comes from faith in Jesus doing what He said He will do. If one has faith, that hope is assured from the indwelling Comforter. - Rom 5:5

Amen. --- Who is this saint that you say, "So be it" to him? You affirm this diviation from true worship by saying, "of a truth" in affirmation. "Surely" you have made the substance of what was said your own.
 
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dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
0
#52


Take, just for one example, the prayer to st. Dymphna - Hope which is found at: Saint - Prayers - Catholic Online
 
Good St. Dymphna, --- Jesus said, "Why call me good? None is good but one, God." - Mat 19:17, Mat 19:17

you placed all your hopein Christ's promises, and sacrificed even your life in that hope. --- Jesus placed His hope in God, and sacrificed His life in that hope.

The Lord, God, rewarded your constancy by making your name known and loved over many centuries by the thousands --- Because Jesus did place His hope in the Father's good work of salvation, God placed His name above every other name. - Php 2:9

whom you have aided in time of difficulty. Please assist us now in our present necessity, --- Help comes from the Lord. - Hos 13:9, Mat 15:25, Mar 9:22, Act 26:22, Heb 4:16

and intercede before God for our intentions. --- There is but one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. - 1Ti 2:5

Obtain for us a firm hope like your own in God's unfailing protection. --- Hope comes from faith in Jesus doing what He said He will do. If one has faith, that hope is assured from the indwelling Comforter. - Rom 5:5

Amen. --- Who is this saint that you say, "So be it" to him? You affirm this diviation from true worship by saying, "of a truth" in affirmation. "Surely" you have made the substance of what was said your own.
Wow. You really are desperate to disprove us right?

So let me get this straight. We're not allowed to call ANYONE else "good" because only God is good. And apparently we're not supposed to point to the examples of other Christians who were rewarded by God either in our lives. Nor are we to ask other Christians for assistance and ask them to intercede (IE pray for us). So you're not allowed to ask your family to pray for you, nor can you ask your church, or pastor. Because after all, there's ONE mediator and asking ANYONE else to pray for you is a grave sin apparently. Nor can we tell our fellow Christians that we want to have a hope in Christ's mercy either.

Yea.... Not sure I want to follow your particular version of Christ because it's pretty lonely and well, cruel. I'll put my faith in the Christ who encourages us to pray for each other, who allows us to recognize the good in other people and strive to imitate it, and who has no issues with us asking our beloved family members to pray for us and ask God to give us hope.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#53
Wow. You really are desperate to disprove us right?
Will you stop using personal pronoun. I have said too many times that it is not the person who I refute in the Truth, but that damnable thing itself. Again, it is not my place to convince, but the Holy Spirit's.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#54
So let me get this straight. We're not allowed to call ANYONE else "good" because only God is good. And apparently we're not supposed to point to the examples of other Christians who were rewarded by God either in our lives. Nor are we to ask other Christians for assistance and ask them to intercede (IE pray for us). So you're not allowed to ask your family to pray for you, nor can you ask your church, or pastor. Because after all, there's ONE mediator and asking ANYONE else to pray for you is a grave sin apparently. Nor can we tell our fellow Christians that we want to have a hope in Christ's mercy either.
Have you not read any of my posts? Surely if you did, you would have seen where I said that a prayer from a LIVING saint prevails much.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#55
Yea.... Not sure I want to follow your particular version of Christ because it's pretty lonely and well, cruel. I'll put my faith in the Christ who encourages us to pray for each other, who allows us to recognize the good in other people and strive to imitate it, and who has no issues with us asking our beloved family members to pray for us and ask God to give us hope.
If you would have read my posts, then you would have concluded from such that Christ encourages us to pray to the Father. Did not Jesus ONLY prayed to God? As to recognizing good in others, did not Paul, who was living, say, "be imitators of me"? How can you imitate the dead?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,246
6,538
113
#56
Wow. You really are desperate to disprove us right?

So let me get this straight. We're not allowed to call ANYONE else "good" because only God is good. And apparently we're not supposed to point to the examples of other Christians who were rewarded by God either in our lives. Nor are we to ask other Christians for assistance and ask them to intercede (IE pray for us). So you're not allowed to ask your family to pray for you, nor can you ask your church, or pastor. Because after all, there's ONE mediator and asking ANYONE else to pray for you is a grave sin apparently. Nor can we tell our fellow Christians that we want to have a hope in Christ's mercy either.

Yea.... Not sure I want to follow your particular version of Christ because it's pretty lonely and well, cruel. I'll put my faith in the Christ who encourages us to pray for each other, who allows us to recognize the good in other people and strive to imitate it, and who has no issues with us asking our beloved family members to pray for us and ask God to give us hope.
I am quite surprised you, claiming to be a follower of Yeshua, are not aware that only Yahweh is good. This is extremely basic regarding being understandable. My experience alone tells me only Yahweh is good. We, as creatures, are not even capable of knowing what is perfect and good unless our Father instructs us and is our Light. Blessed be the family in Yeshua, amen.
 

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
0
#57
Have you not read any of my posts? Surely if you did, you would have seen where I said that a prayer from a LIVING saint prevails much.
And I've posted Scripture references that show that the saints in Heaven are alive and well aware of us. So what's the issue then?
 

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
0
#58
I am quite surprised you, claiming to be a follower of Yeshua, are not aware that only Yahweh is good. This is extremely basic regarding being understandable. My experience alone tells me only Yahweh is good. We, as creatures, are not even capable of knowing what is perfect and good unless our Father instructs us and is our Light. Blessed be the family in Yeshua, amen.
All good does come from God, but to say that we can't point to someone here on earth and say, "They're a good person" is kinda silly. But according to some here in this thread, we can't even point to a famous Christian in history such as St. Paul and say, "He was a good man and led many to Christ" because only God is good.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,246
6,538
113
#59
All good does come from God, but to say that we can't point to someone here on earth and say, "They're a good person" is kinda silly. But according to some here in this thread, we can't even point to a famous Christian in history such as St. Paul and say, "He was a good man and led many to Christ" because only God is good.
We may judge for ourselves (NOT FOR OTHERS OR ALL) what is right, but judgment dealing with salvation we have not been given to execute in this age, it will be handed over to the saints (all who love Yeshua) on that day when the thrones are set up for judgment.
I would like all to meditate on just who they think is good enough to bear us from here to heaven, and the Only reply can be Yeshua. Ëven after repenting and being a loyal child of Yahweh, we are still not perfected, only Yeshua was perfect. It is written we will be perfected on His Day. If you are perfect now, you are good, and I know none of the brethren are perfect in this age.
 
T

thefightinglamb

Guest
#60
dscherk and other roman catholics,

I think it would be worthwhile for you to meditate on where and how you think a saint exists after death. Do you beleive they are everywhere, like God alone? Do you believe people in multiple places can 'speak with' a saint at the same time? I believe the answer to both of these questions is yes. And there you see, if you would open your eyes, how you cannot pray to a saint who would still be limited by a certain amount of space even after death...

There is another perspective to consider as well: say the saints are in heaven, praying on our behalf, then would they not naturally be praying for those who are living? Would they need the 'sacrifice' of words or 'prayers' to themselves to do something that would be holy without being asked? And if they did not naturally delight in praying for those living, would 'sacrifice' make it holy for them to do so? It seems if they were not naturally praying on our behalf if they could do so, then they would be devilish.

I am just saying this to try and help you all. I do not want an immediate response, just for you all to consider these things...

God bless
tony