misunderstandings between Catholics and Christians

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dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
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Luke 1:43 shows Elizabeth, mother to John the Baptist calling Mary by the title "Mother of my Lord" using the same term "Lord" used specifically for God (Adonai). So, why are people upset when we Catholics use the same title to refer to the Virgin Mary? After all, it's recorded in Scripture itself.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Luke 1:43 shows Elizabeth, mother to John the Baptist calling Mary by the title "Mother of my Lord" using the same term "Lord" used specifically for God (Adonai). So, why are people upset when we Catholics use the same title to refer to the Virgin Mary? After all, it's recorded in Scripture itself.
The word Adonai has many connotations, here are some:
master
sir
lord
owner
ruler
possessor
commander
proprietor

Mr.
Sarah called Abraham "lord."
 

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
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The word Adonai has many connotations, here are some:
master
sir
lord
owner
ruler
possessor
commander
proprietor

Mr.
Sarah called Abraham "lord."
Ahh, but in this instance, it's important to look at WHO is being addressed. Mary is being given this title. And who is Mary the mother of? The Lord Jesus Christ.

So, seeing as the title of Mother of my Lord is biblical, why is it a problem when others address Mary using an equivalent title? After all, is not her son, Jesus Christ, God?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,270
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Ahh, but in this instance, it's important to look at WHO is being addressed. Mary is being given this title. And who is Mary the mother of? The Lord Jesus Christ.

So, seeing as the title of Mother of my Lord is biblical, why is it a problem when others address Mary using an equivalent title? After all, is not her son, Jesus Christ, God?
You know I refer to GOD, as you call Him. I have been informed that most are refering to Jesus only, however, living in Spain I know many simply believe Mary is the mother of God which is totally impossible. If you do not wish to cause confusion amongst your own people you really should say as I do, the mother of God incarnate, big difference. Even the mother of God on earth, but the title God means the three persons of God to many, and YES, YHVH is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Three persons is simply a description not another dogma.
 

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
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You know I refer to GOD, as you call Him. I have been informed that most are refering to Jesus only, however, living in Spain I know many simply believe Mary is the mother of God which is totally impossible. If you do not wish to cause confusion amongst your own people you really should say as I do, the mother of God incarnate, big difference. Even the mother of God on earth, but the title God means the three persons of God to many, and YES, YHVH is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Three persons is simply a description not another dogma.
No, that merely is a variant of the Modalist heresy. Jesus is fully God, and fully Man. Denying Mary her rightful title of "mother of God" is merely another way of saying that Jesus isn't God. And I will never accept that viewpoint.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,090
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No, that merely is a variant of the Modalist heresy. Jesus is fully God, and fully Man. Denying Mary her rightful title of "mother of God" is merely another way of saying that Jesus isn't God. And I will never accept that viewpoint.
Then you will continue to accept the heresy of your catholic organisation.

May you seek and find the truth my friend, Peace be with you.


Mathew 3

13Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,270
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Here in Spain, in one town this week, Elche, the catholic faithful are to crown La Dolorosa for the second time, this will costs tens of thousands, and this the second coronation of this madonna. In some towns in this country a goat is thrown off the bell tower to honor the town saint, while in others flammable balls are placed on the horns of a bull, they are set on fire and the people are entertained watching the poor beast dash to and fro in a panicked frenzy. The list goes on and on. In Sevilla there are two "main" Marys, one is called La Macarena, and the other is called La Esperanza, and they are competitors in the city. In Madrid the Almudena IMAGE is reputed to have been brought to Madrid to the people by Santiago (James). The list goes on and on. The Word of God has nothing to do with this schizoid behavior. It is diabolical, and no person who is truthful in the sight of Yahweh and having read and understood His Word will remain in the clutches of this evil grasp. There are innocents in all the theologies, and in Yahweh's time they will come out of them. May Yahweh bless all who are in Yeshua, and all who will come to Him, amen. Thank You Father, amen.
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
Here in Spain, in one town this week, Elche, the catholic faithful are to crown La Dolorosa for the second time, this will costs tens of thousands, and this the second coronation of this madonna. In some towns in this country a goat is thrown off the bell tower to honor the town saint, while in others flammable balls are placed on the horns of a bull, they are set on fire and the people are entertained watching the poor beast dash to and fro in a panicked frenzy. The list goes on and on. In Sevilla there are two "main" Marys, one is called La Macarena, and the other is called La Esperanza, and they are competitors in the city. In Madrid the Almudena IMAGE is reputed to have been brought to Madrid to the people by Santiago (James). The list goes on and on. The Word of God has nothing to do with this schizoid behavior. It is diabolical, and no person who is truthful in the sight of Yahweh and having read and understood His Word will remain in the clutches of this evil grasp. There are innocents in all the theologies, and in Yahweh's time they will come out of them. May Yahweh bless all who are in Yeshua, and all who will come to Him, amen. Thank You Father, amen.
I'm not quite sure how reputable your reports are at this point. My uncle lives in Seville and he's never reported anything of the sort (the goat and bull thing however is well documented). Plus in the three weeks I spent in Italy and the month I spent in Bavaria I've never seen anything of the sort.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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I'm not quite sure how reputable your reports are at this point. My uncle lives in Seville and he's never reported anything of the sort (the goat and bull thing however is well documented). Plus in the three weeks I spent in Italy and the month I spent in Bavaria I've never seen anything of the sort.

When some thinks someone is a liar, one should have nothing to do with that person. The goat throwing is not in Sevilla, nor did I say it is, however it is in Spain. The bull torture occur mostly in Catalonia and Valencia Autonomies. What I have related is according to Spanish news, and I am quite certain you could Google it if you really want to. I am sorry about your uncle not being aware, even though he lives in Sevilla, but I am aware, of course I am not a papist. If it embarrasses you that I expose what goes on just here in Spain, it makes me wonder how badly you would feel were you to recognize the barbarities of the many other catholic countries? God bless you. Again, if you think I am a liar, Google can settle that, but if you do not want to know about the activities of your people here in Spain, then you may call me a liar, they did worse to my Master.
 

Matthew4Jesus

Senior Member
May 7, 2011
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Two genuine questions, although a yes to the first answer is a prerequisite to answer the second one:
1. Do Catholics pray to Mary?
2. If so, why?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,270
6,556
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I'm not quite sure how reputable your reports are at this point. My uncle lives in Seville and he's never reported anything of the sort (the goat and bull thing however is well documented). Plus in the three weeks I spent in Italy and the month I spent in Bavaria I've never seen anything of the sort.
Having been made aware of the practices of animal torture via Television Español only, I decided to Google this information myself, and to my surprise, I understated the extent of these practices. The goat being tossed from the belfry of the church (catholic) is practiced in several parts of Spain, from way up north all the way down to and including the province of Malaga where they also go even further in kicking a donkey to death. All of these practices are recognized and enacted with the blessing of the local church. It is simply disgraceful, and I am informed by catholics in this forum that Spain is a very advanced catholic country, interesting if it were not so disgusting. Now, the Spanish people, have just as many decent folk as any other country, however the most heinous acts are carried out in honoring saints..................sorry, I speak the truth regarding these facts, I lie not. May God have mercy on these people that they repent of this abomination...
 

jandian

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2011
772
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My first problem with Catholicism, is the interference with the word of God.
For example the Catholics ten commandments is different form the ten commandments in the bible and that really scares me
 
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crissy17

Guest
I raised in a catholic family so i know a lot of catholic beliefs..Christianity is not a religion. By reading the Word alone and studying it, many of these questions can be answered. However, some scriptures are manipulated, and it is best to study that specific reading on your own. Religion is rules, Christianity is salvation through the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, (Holy Trinity since The Father and Holy Spirit each abide in Jesus as Jesus abides in them). Reading all of these comments can easily be bias, so I encourage everyone to read the Word of God (Holy Bible) since it is the Truth. Again, Religion can easily blind a person in such a way that they may live a life that leads to the second death, and as described in Luke 13:22-30, you shouldn't wait! It may be too late by the time you discover the truth, therefore time should not be wasted. Catholics have the Roman Catholic Church as the main Church, but Christians are the church, Jesus Loves the church, which is us. Therefore seek Him, because He is Holy and Just, don't think that this is it, God created the Heavens and the Earth. The bible says if you search for Him, you will be found..
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,270
6,556
113
I raised in a catholic family so i know a lot of catholic beliefs..Christianity is not a religion. By reading the Word alone and studying it, many of these questions can be answered. However, some scriptures are manipulated, and it is best to study that specific reading on your own. Religion is rules, Christianity is salvation through the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, (Holy Trinity since The Father and Holy Spirit each abide in Jesus as Jesus abides in them). Reading all of these comments can easily be bias, so I encourage everyone to read the Word of God (Holy Bible) since it is the Truth. Again, Religion can easily blind a person in such a way that they may live a life that leads to the second death, and as described in Luke 13:22-30, you shouldn't wait! It may be too late by the time you discover the truth, therefore time should not be wasted. Catholics have the Roman Catholic Church as the main Church, but Christians are the church, Jesus Loves the church, which is us. Therefore seek Him, because He is Holy and Just, don't think that this is it, God created the Heavens and the Earth. The bible says if you search for Him, you will be found..
Thank you, Crissy...
 

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
0
Then you will continue to accept the heresy of your catholic organisation.

May you seek and find the truth my friend, Peace be with you.


Mathew 3

13Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
So tell me, do you believe that Jesus IS God?
 
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StMichaelTheArchangel

Guest
I raised in a catholic family so i know a lot of catholic beliefs..Christianity is not a religion. By reading the Word alone and studying it, many of these questions can be answered. However, some scriptures are manipulated, and it is best to study that specific reading on your own. Religion is rules, Christianity is salvation through the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, (Holy Trinity since The Father and Holy Spirit each abide in Jesus as Jesus abides in them). Reading all of these comments can easily be bias, so I encourage everyone to read the Word of God (Holy Bible) since it is the Truth. Again, Religion can easily blind a person in such a way that they may live a life that leads to the second death, and as described in Luke 13:22-30, you shouldn't wait! It may be too late by the time you discover the truth, therefore time should not be wasted. Catholics have the Roman Catholic Church as the main Church, but Christians are the church, Jesus Loves the church, which is us. Therefore seek Him, because He is Holy and Just, don't think that this is it, God created the Heavens and the Earth. The bible says if you search for Him, you will be found..
Christianity is not a religion? Okay, then what is the definition of religion? Religion is exactly what Christianity is, if you deny that then you deny Scriptures which say, "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27).
I think you are confusing what religion really means, its not something evil or corrupt, it is totally biblical. Protestants like to use that word because they think it expresses the corruption of Catholicism, but it doesn't, it expresses Christianity in general.

You said, "Religion is rules", well then what do you call that book we call The Bible? A set of rules and doctrines. You said, "Christianity is Salvation through Jesus Christ", however, what is salvation? Is it an instant mental affirmation? Is it a moral change? It is a spiritual change? How can someone be assured that they have salvation just by reading the Bible? Did Jesus tell us to read the Bible to be saved? Jesus did not tell us to read the Bible to be saved.

You said, "Christians are the Church", but if Christians are the Church, why then did the Apostle Paul describe the Church as being a "House of God, the Pillar and Ground of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15)?


You said you fell away from the Catholic Church and that it "blinded you", it did not blind you, that is impossible because you were blind already and did not even know it.
 
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StMichaelTheArchangel

Guest
Two genuine questions, although a yes to the first answer is a prerequisite to answer the second one:
1. Do Catholics pray to Mary?
2. If so, why?
As an Orthodox Christian (often mistaken for Catholics yet similar), yes, we do.

Why? Because Mary is the Mother of Jesus Christ and therefore is a very important figure both to Christ and to the Christian Faith. We pray to her because (1), Holy Tradition that has been passed down to us; (2), Because she is the most direct and stable link to Jesus Christ being that she bore God in the flesh and is His own mother, (3), She is considered the holiest of all God's Saints and therefore her prayers are especially powerful.

But we do not see Mary as some sort of deity, that would be blasphemous.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,090
191
63
As an Orthodox Christian (often mistaken for Catholics yet similar), yes, we do.

Why? Because Mary is the Mother of Jesus Christ and therefore is a very important figure both to Christ and to the Christian Faith. We pray to her because (1), Holy Tradition that has been passed down to us; (2), Because she is the most direct and stable link to Jesus Christ being that she bore God in the flesh and is His own mother, (3), She is considered the holiest of all God's Saints and therefore her prayers are especially powerful.

But we do not see Mary as some sort of deity, that would be blasphemous.

Where in the Bible does it say to pray to Yahshua the Messiah's Mother?

where does it say she is the stable link?

Where does the Bible say she is the Holiest Saint?

Where does it say her prayers are especially powerful?
 
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Laodicea

Guest
I am a devout Catholic. I am curious what you find out what you think are the most difficult teachings of the Catholic Church.

I don't want to get into any discussions on this thread, I just want to hear from you personally what you disagree with from a theological perspective so I can know where to focus my studies.

try not to read other peoples responses until you have posted. Also try to list them in order with the teachings that you believe are least likely to be scripturaly supported at top.

The things I find most difficult with common protestant theology is
1) sola fide,
2) sola scriptura,
3) and the lack of infant baptism.
There would be a few things but, just to mention 2 things
1) Sabbath-There is no text in the Bible that says to keep the first day holy as the sabbath. The Papacy even claim to have changed the sabbath.

2) State of the dead-The Bible says the dead do not know anything while the Catholics teach otherwise.