I love Jesus and I don't hate science

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rainacorn

Guest
#41
We're creating atheists??? That's a good one. So when that atheist stands before God on judgement day, is he gonna be able to blame me for his unbelief??
No... but when you stand before God on judgement day, are you going to be able to say that you didn't act as a stumbling block for others by making up a standard for who can be a Christian and who can't?
 
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rainacorn

Guest
#42
I love NdGT and this is a nice video, but he is part of a group that believes religion is pointless and we'd be better off if it were done away with. I am glad that he keeps that in the category of his personal opinion rather than taking some kind of professional stance on it.

I think what he says in this video is right... there's no inherent conflict. People just want there to be one. It's not just religious people thinking science is of the devil, but there are many atheists that think religion cannot or should not continue to exist in a scientific age. The fight between the two exists in the fringe, but like he said in this video, they're more vocal so you think it's more widespread than it is.
 

TheKringledOne

Senior Member
Dec 25, 2009
423
4
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#43
I think its a shame that many people, both Christians and atheists, believe that there isn't coherent interpretations of the bible, and thus Christianity, that co-exist with the scientific knowledge gained over the years. This misunderstand most likely causes many people to make bad decisions because they lack proper information on issue concerning the subject of both science and Christianity.


My problem with ''science'' is that much of it is pure fantasy with zero evidence to back it up. Every bit of so called evidence for the evolution theory has been proven to be fraudulant. A live penguin was once carbon dated to be 1000 yrs old. Science still teaches that the earth is millions of yrs old, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Science is based on observation. Some theories that are used today have aspects involved that have not been observed, these are predictions made by the theory that currently cannot be tested for, but still make real world predictions and explanatory power. This means that those theories that have certain aspects based solely on making the models make accurate predictions have a lot of utility even if those aspects have not yet been justified through observation.

As for the penguin, I don't know of this exact example. However, I do know of a problem with carbon dating that has been called the "reservoir effect" which caused by carbon within the environment is already aged compared to atmospheric carbon. This is definitely an issue when dating marine, or any aquatic, objects using the carbon dating method. The thing is that this effect is well understood, the mechanics of the issue are known, and therefore experts in the field know when and when not to use carbon dating in order to determine the estimated age of something.

The most accepted models, based on the evidence, has the earth being 4.5 ± 0.5 billion years old. This is based on an overwhelming amount of evidence and is considered by experts in the field to be demonstrable.

You can make whatever models you like based on what evidence you want to look at. However, scientific peer review is harsh and models need to be able to be functional enough to explain a plethora of data in order to be accepted and used. You can believe what you want about the age of the earth and how God created it, but that doesn't mean it necessarily was the case. I just think you should realize that the Christian god, some interpretations of him at least, is still a possibility using the current scientific models.


actually, sicentific theories teah everything happened by chance

the bible says there is a methodology, a plan to it all
- Science prooves things are NOT random, they are too ordered for that

- thus, even sicence points to a creator
You say that scientific theories say that everything happened by "chance". Even though the vast majority of scientific theories are deterministic and therefore are not by chance at all. Just because things are ordered does not point to a creator. Also just because things are explainable by these processes does not mean that there was no creator who forged the rules for them to occur. The Christian god is still possible within scientific models however the models do not point or imply Him.
 
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Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
13,172
1,183
113
#44
No... but when you stand before God on judgement day, are you going to be able to say that you didn't act as a stumbling block for others by making up a standard for who can be a Christian and who can't?
I'm not saying anything that the word of God doesnt say...It's Jesus Christ or hell...it's really that simple
 
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rainacorn

Guest
#45
I'm not saying anything that the word of God doesnt say...It's Jesus Christ or hell...it's really that simple
You've so completely missed the points being made in this thread.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
13,172
1,183
113
#46
Its not that christians refuse to aknowledge science. There are scientific facts mentioned in the Bible. We just understand that real science points to a creator. The problem is that science refuses to aknowledge God
 
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rainacorn

Guest
#47
Its not that christians refuse to aknowledge science. There are scientific facts mentioned in the Bible. We just understand that real science points to a creator. The problem is that science refuses to aknowledge God
Scientists maybe.

Science is incapable of opinions or beliefs.
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#48
You say that scientific theories say that everything happened by "chance". Even though the vast majority of scientific theories are deterministic and therefore are not by chance at all. Just because things are ordered does not point to a creator. Also just because things are explainable by these processes does not mean that there was no creator who forged the rules for them to occur. The Christian god is still possible within scientific models however the models do not point or imply Him.
hence the bit about sience prooves it does not happen by chance, it is contradictive. So many scientists say the big bang just happened, that animals just happened to evolve the way they do, yet they talk about things that are complex and not random at all. Or, maybe I just have bad luck, running into the ones saying strange things.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against science, I just have a problem with scientists that say "(we know that) it all just happened, but we dont know how".... then how do they KNOW it happened that way?
 
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IWTD

Guest
#49
hence the bit about sience prooves it does not happen by chance, it is contradictive. So many scientists say the big bang just happened, that animals just happened to evolve the way they do, yet they talk about things that are complex and not random at all. Or, maybe I just have bad luck, running into the ones saying strange things.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against science, I just have a problem with scientists that say "(we know that) it all just happened, but we dont know how".... then how do they KNOW it happened that way?
...really?No problem against science?What if one day a discovery will be made that will contradict your belief in God will you stop believing in God? Does evolution theory contradicts your belief?
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#50
well, that is why i say I have no problem with science, but I do have a problem with theories attempting to do that, many are biased, even if they claim not to be
 
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IWTD

Guest
#51
well, that is why i say I have no problem with science, but I do have a problem with theories attempting to do that, many are biased, even if they claim not to be
Which theory exactly is attempting to do that?So does the theory of evolution contradicts your belief or not?How about other religions?Islam for example, does it contradict christianity?
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#52
exacyly what point are you attempting to make asking me that?
 
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IWTD

Guest
#53
hmmm...as yet I'm attempting to get you answer.But my point is this - what kind of evidence you would need to believe that the evolution theory is true(if you deny it - as many people in this thread).
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#54
What would it take for you to believe in the bible's version? :) ;)
 
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IWTD

Guest
#55
You avoid answering my questions...so...What bible's version?And if you say that you don't really care how old is the earth...why would you even care for other scientific facts? If one specific book is all you need...(?) What would it take for me to believe in bible's version?Probably it would take the same to believe in other sacred books - (like quran) - All you need is pure faith.
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#56
I never answer questions that clearly are looking to trap me, so yes, I am avoding them ;) adios :) God bless
 
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IWTD

Guest
#57
I'm just looking for answers, it wasn't my intention to trap you(or anyone else).If your faith is strong you shouldn't be afraid to answer any question.Farvel :)
 
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rainacorn

Guest
#58
I would be interested to see more of the transitional animals. Right now it's like we assume things are related and that's a reasonable assumption, but to see it in action would be very cool.
 
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IWTD

Guest
#59
There are transitional animals/fossils People who deny evolution simply are not interested in finding scientific papers on the subject(just keep repeating all over again that such transitional animals don't exist) If you have children you can see evolution in action ;)
 
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rainacorn

Guest
#60
There are transitional animals/fossils People who deny evolution simply are not interested in finding scientific papers on the subject(just keep repeating all over again that such transitional animals don't exist) If you have children you can see evolution in action ;)
I don't deny evolution and I would still like to see more of them. I think it would be cool.

Understanding that certain traits are passed on from parent to child is not the same thing as speciation. My child will not be a new species.