The official doctrine of the Antichrist / king / leader in the end

doulos · May 2, 2012

Not at all, Scripture tells us there are many antichrists, not just one. I understand that you use 1John2:18 to justify your belief that “antichrist shall come in the last time”. Unfortunately that is fallacy, let’s start with 1John2:18
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
Nothing in this verse suggests that there is a single antichrist in our future. If anything John was suggesting that the last time had already started and there were many antichrists. Let’s not forget that John also told us exactly who/what the antichrist they heard shall come was in 1John4:3.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Which shows it was already in the world. There have beeen antichrists past present and future not just one in the end.

Not all translations say kings or kingdoms.
Dan 7:17 "The four beasts are four earthly kingdoms. (CEV)
Was Daniel’s lion the kingdom of Babylon, or a knig? Was Daniel’s bear the kingdom of Medo-Persia, or a king? Was Daniel’s leopard the kingdom of Greece, or a king?

Maybe according to the way you interpret Scripture but if one applies sound hermeneutic principles to their studies they will find that almost all you believe is future has been unfolding right before our eyes for the last 2000 years or so. If you want to believe in the boogie man aka “the Antichrist go right ahead just be careful that you don’t get so busy looking over your shoulder for him you fail to recognize the beast(Islam) is ready to pounce and wants your head. Remember prophecy does not tell us what isn't there but what is and none of the verses that tell us about antichrist say he is an endtime leader or that there is only one in the end. Can you show us a verse that says antichrist is a king in the end times? No you can't, because not a single verse that tells us about antichrists says he is an end time world leader or that there is only one.

Be blessed my friend may God bless our studies.

jb · May 2, 2012

Dude653 said:

Another sectarian bigot here I see!

dscherck · May 2, 2012

Katy-follower said:

LOL!

Really? You really believe that? Next I suppose we'll be talking about how a group of lizards dressed up as men secretly run the world via the UN or something.

This thread == COMEDY GOLD!

peterT · May 2, 2012

1Christianwarrior316 said:

It's not unusual for a man of God to be tricked by Satan sometimes, and speak the words of the devil, words of the flesh sometimes.

Just take a look at David tricked by the devil to number Israel which displeased the Lord.
1 Chronicles 21
And Peter rebuked by Jesus for speaking nonsense and words of the flesh.

So a man of God can go astray, and I think that’s you when you preach Islam in the beast and that there is on antichrist leader in the end. For these things are not in the Bible.

I gave you other scripture from the Bible that show what is an antichrist but you just ignore it.

Daniel7:21I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them

Rv13:7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

He that makes war with the saints is an antichrist, and the little horn is a king.

For beasts are known as kingdoms and kings, NOT just kingdoms.

peterT · May 7, 2012

1Christianwarrior316 said:

Ok let me get this straight peterT. If I believe that there is not and end time antichrist king and that Islam is the beast, I am holding the doctrine of antichrist. Is this correct? Could you provide scripture as to what antichrist’s doctrine is? Book, chapter, verse please.
Since you will not find it in scripture let me show you the doctrine of antichrist…
019.088 They say: “(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!”
019.089 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!
019.090 At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin,
019.091 That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious.
019.092 For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.
004.157 That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
And this is found in the quran.
　
　
　
Now back to your post... if I believe there is not an end time antichrist king and Islam is the beast, then let me get this right, I am being accused by you of being a minister of Satan. Is that correct?
Well peterT I do believe this, and this also, that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, that Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, that Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God, and Jesus Christ was crucified, resurrected, and now sits on the right hand of power. I am no minister of Satan because I believe these things. I love the Lord with all my heart and find your accusation unbrotherly in Christ because I understand scripture the way the Lord has opened my eyes to see. It is my opinion that you should repent of making such an accusation. It is not our doctrine that saves us but our faith. And it is my opinion that you should go back and study what brotherly love is. And this I will tell you peterT, not you, nor anyone on this forum, neither death, nor life, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, separate me from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus my Lord!!! (Rom 8:38-39)

I will keep you in my prayers.

In Christ, 1Christianwarrior316

Your doctrine borders on racism and hatred.

You put all Muslims in the same box, head chopping Christian haters.

You interpreting their scripture for them in the worst possible light.

It’s just a small minority that have that extreme view and that interpreting scripture that way.

Even we Christians don’t interpret bible scripture the same way.

You need to take a closer look at what you are teaching. If we listened to you all Muslims would be potential head chopping Christian haters, buggy men, and we would never be able to witness to them.

Fear racism hatred, I think that might be the wrong spirit yes.

doulos · May 7, 2012

peterT said:

Actually it is your misunderstanding of that doctrine that leads you to believe that. In reality your claim is baseless.

peterT said:

So long as ALL the followers of Muhaamad believe that God has no Son they are denying the Son making all of them antichrists (1John2:22) There are over 100 verses in the quran calling the muslims to violence against those who refuse to submit to islam. Some of those verses specifically target those (Jews and Christians) of the book (Bible) as the following demonstrates:
Surah 9.29Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
It is not just a small minority, that believe that way. Those who follow Muhammad that do not believe that way are hypocrites and according to the quran will be punished by Allah.
Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."

The verses in the quran promoting violence are indisputable and all muslims recognize that they are instructed to wage jihad against all nonbelievers. Those who follow Muhammad and say differently are either lying(remember Muhammaads followers are allowed to lie when it comes to promoting Islam) or being hypocrites. The quran says the hypocrites who do not fight for Allah will be punished.(see quran9:38-39)

Actually if you would set your doctrinal filters aside take the time to read and understand what he (and some others here) are saying you would recognize that Islam is the beast of Rev13:2and the final enemy of the Gospel. Once one realizes that and gains an understanding of the beliefs Muhammad’s followers have, then and only then can one become an effective witness to those who have been deceived by Muhammad’s teachings. Before you can get them to take a serious look at the Scriptures you must first get them to see the fallacy in what they believe. One can only accomplish this if one takes the time to gain an understanding of what and why they believe the way they do.

Yes it is and if you believe that is what is being promoted it only demonstrates that you have not taken the time to gain an understanding of what and why he is making the statements he has made.

Now do you actually have something constructive to say or did you just reply to this post multiple times (see posts 8&9 this thread) so you could have an excuse to continue criticizing those who hold a different view then you?

Be blessed peterT and may God bless your studies!

IMINJC · May 7, 2012

doulos

YOU SAID : Nothing in this verse suggests that there is a single antichrist in our future.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

The writer was clearly indicating in scripture of what the people had heard and had been taught. What they had heard and were taught was that there would be a "Anti Christ" or a "Person" that would come before the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. He then points out to them (to convince them that they were in the last days) that there were many "anti christs" already in operation in their time, but this in no way changed the fact that they believed and were taught that a single individual would come and desecrate the Temple before the coming of Jesus.

doulos · May 7, 2012

IMINJC said:

Actually John told us exactly who/what the antichrist that they heard shall come was when he said “this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come”
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
As the verse shows the one they heard shall come had already come.

1Christianwarrior316 · May 7, 2012

peterT said:

No you have only showed doctrine that is based on the precepts of man. And the very roots of it can be traced back to it’s origin which leads us to the Jesuit priest, Francisco Ribera. In fact Francisco Ribera is called the father of futurism. While Ribera may be considered the father of futurism others added more to his teachings which can be read at this link…AN END TIME MYTH

The Word of God defines antichrist in the following verses,
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

God’s Word defines what antichrist is so why would one want to believe what mans definition is concerning antichrist. Nowhere is antichrist described as an end time king in the previous verses which define what antichrist is. And for you to assert that it is, if I may use the words you like to say, “You’re making it up.” It is only by your doctrine that is based on the precepts of man that you relate the verses you do. Are we to trust God’s Word or the words that you keep insisting on which is based on a false doctrine that entered the church many years before our parents or even our parents grandparents entered into this world.

Adam Clarke writes in his Bible commentary on 1John 2:18 and says,
“Antichrist shall come - Who is this αντιχριστος antichrist? Is he the Emperor Domitian, the Gnostics, Nicolaitans, Nazareans, Cerinthians, Romish pontiffs, etc., etc.! Ans. Any person, thing, doctrine, system of religion, polity, etc., which is opposed to Christ, and to the spirit and spread of his Gospel, is antichrist. We need not look for this imaginary being in any of the above exclusively. Even Protestantism may have its antichrist as well as Popery. Every man who opposes the spirit of the Gospel, and every teacher and writer who endeavors to lower the Gospel standard to the spirit and taste of the world, is a genuine antichrist, no matter where or among whom he is found. The heresies which sprang up in the days of St. John were the antichrist of that time. As there has been a succession of oppositions to Christianity in its spirit and spread through every age since its promulgation in the world, so there has been a succession of antichrists. We may bring this matter much lower; every enemy of Christ, every one who opposes his reign in the world, in others, or in himself, is an antichrist; and consequently every wicked man is an antichrist. But the name has been generally applied to whatever person or thing systematically opposes Christ and his religion.
Many antichrists - Many false prophets, false Messiahs, heretics, and corrupters of the truth.
Whereby we know that it is the last time - That time which our Lord has predicted, and of which he has warned us.
And I believe Adam Clarke nailed it on the head in the part of his comment I bolded.

As one lie entered into the church it has multiplied into many lies to this date and has caused the church to become lukewarm and some to be completely corrupt. Is it no wonder that our Lord says to the lukewarm Laodicean church, “ So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth”(Rev 3:16). Remember a little leaven leaventh the whole lump, (Gal 5:9) which John Gill explains very well in his commentary, “and the error was not a slight one, that as a little sour leaven influences and ferments a large mass, or lump of dough, and makes it of the same nature with it, so a small error in doctrine, as it may be thought to be, increases to more ungodliness, and eats as doth a canker; and though a few hands may be first concerned in propagating it, and but few be infected with it, yet these may soon spread the contagion through the whole society:”

Many churches are following the ways of the world and have turned to fables instead of sound doctrine and many of today’s Christians are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

I stand firm in my belief and there are many more people that are starting to realize the identity of the beast as they start seeking the truth in God’s Inspired Word. And why do you think this is? Is it because they have turned away from the false doctrine that is currently being taught and the error of it? Is it because they are opening their Bibles and searching for the truth instead of listening to teachers teaching to itching ears to satisfy the flesh and not the spirit? Is it because they are seeing the rape, torture, beheading, and murder of our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ because they will not deny their faith and love of our Lord and submit to the beast by those who follow Islam? Is it because the Lord is opening their eyes to see?
The beast is before our very eyes and growing at such an alarming rate that Europe will soon be dominated by it. And many Christians are seeing it take root in this country but because of being spiritually lukewarm and politically correct they jeopardize the religious freedom of future generations. Indeed what a sad spiritual state the church is in today when our fellow brethern are being persecuted in foreign countries while many Christians are following the doctrine of a Jesuit priest that can be traced back to the very birth of it’s inception. I have studied, researched and found that the precepts of man has manifested itself into the doctrine that is commonly being today. Which in my opinion is a lie, a fable, as scripture warns. 2Ti 4:3-4

My doctrine does not border on racism and hatred as you are suggesting. Islam which means submission is based on the false teachings of a False Prophet that was inspired by Satan. Islam is leading many souls away from salvation, but Glory be to God there are some missionaries that are doing God’s will and preaching the truth to those who are deceived by a False Prophet and who risk the possibility of death to preach the Gospel of Christ to these lost souls. I do not hate these people just their religion. And I keep these lost souls in my prayers daily that the Light of Truth may shine in their dark world.

Maybe you should yourself go into one of these Islamic countries and preach the Gospel and then maybe you might understand just what exactly I’m teaching.
I will no longer debate this with you peterT as your doctrine has blinded you to the truth, and your constant unchristian accusations to me or anyone else that rejects the doctrine you espouse.

Good day.
　
　
　
　
　

peterT · May 7, 2012

doulos said:

That’s you crossing the line again and encouraging Christians to read and study the Quran.
Exodus 23:13And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.
Joshua 23:7That ye come not among these nations, these that remain among you; neither make mention of the name of their gods, nor cause to swear by them, neither serve them, nor bow yourselves unto them:
Don’t you think that Christians should be encouraged to read and study there Bibles.

Your doctrine borders on racism and hatred.

You put all Muslims in the same box, head chopping Christian haters.

You interpreting their scripture for them in the worst possible light.

It’s just a small minority that have that extreme view and that interpreting scripture that way.

peterT · May 7, 2012

1Christianwarrior316 said:

No you have only showed doctrine that is based on the precepts of man. And the very roots of it can be traced back to it’s origin which leads us to the Jesuit priest, Francisco Ribera. In fact Francisco Ribera is called the father of futurism. While Ribera may be considered the father of futurism others added more to his teachings which can be read at this link…AN END TIME MYTH

The Word of God defines antichrist in the following verses,
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

God’s Word defines what antichrist is so why would one want to believe what mans definition is concerning antichrist. Nowhere is antichrist described as an end time king in the previous verses which define what antichrist is. And for you to assert that it is, if I may use the words you like to say, “You’re making it up.” It is only by your doctrine that is based on the precepts of man that you relate the verses you do. Are we to trust God’s Word or the words that you keep insisting on which is based on a false doctrine that entered the church many years before our parents or even our parents grandparents entered into this world.

Adam Clarke writes in his Bible commentary on 1John 2:18 and says,
“Antichrist shall come - Who is this αντιχριστος antichrist? Is he the Emperor Domitian, the Gnostics, Nicolaitans, Nazareans, Cerinthians, Romish pontiffs, etc., etc.! Ans. Any person, thing, doctrine, system of religion, polity, etc., which is opposed to Christ, and to the spirit and spread of his Gospel, is antichrist. We need not look for this imaginary being in any of the above exclusively. Even Protestantism may have its antichrist as well as Popery. Every man who opposes the spirit of the Gospel, and every teacher and writer who endeavors to lower the Gospel standard to the spirit and taste of the world, is a genuine antichrist, no matter where or among whom he is found. The heresies which sprang up in the days of St. John were the antichrist of that time. As there has been a succession of oppositions to Christianity in its spirit and spread through every age since its promulgation in the world, so there has been a succession of antichrists. We may bring this matter much lower; every enemy of Christ, every one who opposes his reign in the world, in others, or in himself, is an antichrist; and consequently every wicked man is an antichrist. But the name has been generally applied to whatever person or thing systematically opposes Christ and his religion.
Many antichrists - Many false prophets, false Messiahs, heretics, and corrupters of the truth.
Whereby we know that it is the last time - That time which our Lord has predicted, and of which he has warned us.
And I believe Adam Clarke nailed it on the head in the part of his comment I bolded.

As one lie entered into the church it has multiplied into many lies to this date and has caused the church to become lukewarm and some to be completely corrupt. Is it no wonder that our Lord says to the lukewarm Laodicean church, “ So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth”(Rev 3:16). Remember a little leaven leaventh the whole lump, (Gal 5:9) which John Gill explains very well in his commentary, “and the error was not a slight one, that as a little sour leaven influences and ferments a large mass, or lump of dough, and makes it of the same nature with it, so a small error in doctrine, as it may be thought to be, increases to more ungodliness, and eats as doth a canker; and though a few hands may be first concerned in propagating it, and but few be infected with it, yet these may soon spread the contagion through the whole society:”

Many churches are following the ways of the world and have turned to fables instead of sound doctrine and many of today’s Christians are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

I stand firm in my belief and there are many more people that are starting to realize the identity of the beast as they start seeking the truth in God’s Inspired Word. And why do you think this is? Is it because they have turned away from the false doctrine that is currently being taught and the error of it? Is it because they are opening their Bibles and searching for the truth instead of listening to teachers teaching to itching ears to satisfy the flesh and not the spirit? Is it because they are seeing the rape, torture, beheading, and murder of our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ because they will not deny their faith and love of our Lord and submit to the beast by those who follow Islam? Is it because the Lord is opening their eyes to see?
The beast is before our very eyes and growing at such an alarming rate that Europe will soon be dominated by it. And many Christians are seeing it take root in this country but because of being spiritually lukewarm and politically correct they jeopardize the religious freedom of future generations. Indeed what a sad spiritual state the church is in today when our fellow brethern are being persecuted in foreign countries while many Christians are following the doctrine of a Jesuit priest that can be traced back to the very birth of it’s inception. I have studied, researched and found that the precepts of man has manifested itself into the doctrine that is commonly being today. Which in my opinion is a lie, a fable, as scripture warns. 2Ti 4:3-4

My doctrine does not border on racism and hatred as you are suggesting. Islam which means submission is based on the false teachings of a False Prophet that was inspired by Satan. Islam is leading many souls away from salvation, but Glory be to God there are some missionaries that are doing God’s will and preaching the truth to those who are deceived by a False Prophet and who risk the possibility of death to preach the Gospel of Christ to these lost souls. I do not hate these people just their religion. And I keep these lost souls in my prayers daily that the Light of Truth may shine in their dark world.

Maybe you should yourself go into one of these Islamic countries and preach the Gospel and then maybe you might understand just what exactly I’m teaching.
I will no longer debate this with you peterT as your doctrine has blinded you to the truth, and your constant unchristian accusations to me or anyone else that rejects the doctrine you espouse.

Good day.　

I gave you other scripture from the Bible that show what is an antichrist but you just ignore it.

Daniel7:21I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them

Rv13:7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

He that makes war with the saints is an antichrist.

You must see that there are ten antichrist kings in the end from

Rv17 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
So there I show you ten antichrist kings in the end, NOT know antichrist kings as you put it.
And if there are ten antichrist kings in the end what makes you think that there won’t be another king that comes up like in Daniel 7?

The little horn is a king in the end that comes out of the ten.

Even if you don’t like Daniel 7 as an end time chapter then Rv 17 shows there are antichrist kings in the end. And not know kings as you put it.

peterT · May 7, 2012

IMINJC said:

doulos

YOU SAID : Nothing in this verse suggests that there is a single antichrist in our future.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

The writer was clearly indicating in scripture of what the people had heard and had been taught. What they had heard and were taught was that there would be a "Anti Christ" or a "Person" that would come before the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. He then points out to them (to convince them that they were in the last days) that there were many "anti christs" already in operation in their time, but this in no way changed the fact that they believed and were taught that a single individual would come and desecrate the Temple before the coming of Jesus.

Well put thanks.
But they add the letter “S” to the word antichrist to help them justify their doctrine.

I think their doctrine stinks of racism and hatred.

doulos · May 7, 2012

peterT said:

No one is suggesting they shouldn't. On the other hand if we are to be effective witnesses to them we must know enough about their beliefs to show the error in their belief. A fact you continue to ignore in order to justify your baseless attacks against those who try to educate about the violence Islam promotes.

Once again you make the same false statement, exposing the violence of islam is not promoting racism or hatred. Remember Islam is not a race but a false religion. Is it wrong to expose a false religion that requires all it's followers to deny God has a Son? Doesn't that make all who follow Muhamaad antichrists?

Once again you have leveled a false accusation. It was The false prophet Muhamaad that put them in that box when he taught them to believe God has no Son and to use a sword against all who believe differently.

No interpretation required, you either accept the truth that their are over 100 verses in the quran promoting violence or you deny the truth. Obviously you have chosen to deny the truth so you can continue to defending a false religion that requires all who follow Muhamaad to be antichrist. How very sad, why a Christian would defend a belief that requires one to be antichrist is inexcusable!

The fact is those who promote violence and jihad are the ones that do exactly what the quran tells them. Those who promote peace are considered apostate and according to the quran will be punished for being apostate. But again you would have known that if you would take the time to read and understand what others actually post instead of defending antichrists so you can find a way to attack those who have demonstrated the error of the doctrine you espouse. How very sad I'll keep you in my prayers!

doulos · May 7, 2012

peterT said:

Just another of your blatantly false misrepresentations you continue to use to stand by a doctrine that has been demonstrated to be in error many times.
As we can all see 1 John2:18 does tell us the are many antichrists (with an S read the verse). As for as the singular antichrist you insist is yet future, one must ignore the fact that John told us exactly who what that singular antichrist is in 1John4:3. John tells us it is a spirit and that it was already in the world, not some future boogieman.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Ignore the truth and stand by your doctrine if you choose.
Mar 7:13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

peterT · May 8, 2012

doulos said:

It’s only a small minority of Muslims that have that extreme belief NOT all. And some of them interpret it that way, as do you.
Your doctrine reminds me of that thread “God Hates Fags” post

There is no scripture saying Islam is the beast you are just making it up.
And there is no scripture saying there is on king in the end you are just making it up too.

Ignore the truth and stand by your doctrine if you choose.

1 Timothy 1:4Neither give heed to FABLES and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: [so do].

1 Timothy 4:7But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself [rather] unto godliness.

2 Timothy 4:4And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Titus 1:14Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
It sounds like you are adding the S to antichrist to me
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time

doulos · May 8, 2012

peterT said:

Apparently your reading and compreehension skills are severly lacking. The points you keep raising have been addressed numerous times. Do you have anything constructive to add to the conversation or are you just intent on defending your doctrine which has been proven false and results in you doing exactly as Christ warned against in Mark7:13.. Doesn't the verse you quoted tell us there are many antichrists with an S? Doesn't John tell us exactly who.what the antichrist they heard shall come was when he said this is that spirit of antichrist; whereof ye have heard should come and even now is it in the world'? Don't all muslims deny that God has a Son? Doesn't the quran have over 100 verses calling all muslims to wage jihad on those who refuse to accept islam?

You can keep burying your head in the sand and defending the antichrist religion of Islam or you can address the issues and answer the questions I have asked honestly. Of course you won't because if you did that you would have to admit that the antichrist they heard shall come is a spirit that was already in the world , not a future king as you claim. You would have to admit that all muslims deny God has a Son making all muslims antichrists and that they are all callled to wage jihad..I think we can all see how desparately you cling to your doctrine even though if we are intellectually honest with what the verses about antichrist, it is clear you are promoting fallacy that nullifies the truth of God's word. How very sad I'll keep you in my prayers.

PS As you like to say "your just making it up" there is no verse that says antichrist is a king " ROFL

IMINJC · May 8, 2012

DOULOS

1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

This verse reveals that the church of the day had not only been told and taught that the "antichrist" or "person" would come before the coming of Jesus (1Jn 2:18 ), but also that the "spirit" of that "antichrist" would also come before Christ would return.

Spirit in this context is speaking of a persons influence, idealogy, thoughts, ways, plans, pursuits, and vision that is being perpetrated and carried out by devoted followers in the persons absence.

1 John 4:2
2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

Simply put, these are individuals that are devoted followers of Jesus who are influenced by His idealogy, thoughts, ways, plans, pursuits and vision. Just because we are under the "Spirit" of Jesus, does not diminish the fact that Jesus is a "person," or "being." John the baptist ministered under the "spirit" and power of Elijah but Elijah was still a "person."

Just because the spirit of the antichrist is in the world does not diminish in any way the "person" of the antichrist that is to also come before the coming of our Lord.

peterT · May 8, 2012

doulos said:

Apparently your reading and compreehension skills are severly lacking. The points you keep raising have been addressed numerous times. Do you have anything constructive to add to the conversation or are you just intent on defending your doctrine which has been proven false and results in you doing exactly as Christ warned against in Mark7:13.. Doesn't the verse you quoted tell us there are many antichrists with an S? Doesn't John tell us exactly who.what the antichrist they heard shall come was when he said this is that spirit of antichrist; whereof ye have heard should come and even now is it in the world'? Don't all muslims deny that God has a Son? Doesn't the quran have over 100 verses calling all muslims to wage jihad on those who refuse to accept islam?

You can keep burying your head in the sand and defending the antichrist religion of Islam or you can address the issues and answer the questions I have asked honestly. Of course you won't because if you did that you would have to admit that the antichrist they heard shall come is a spirit that was already in the world , not a future king as you claim. You would have to admit that all muslims deny God has a Son making all muslims antichrists and that they are all callled to wage jihad..I think we can all see how desparately you cling to your doctrine even though if we are intellectually honest with what the verses about antichrist, it is clear you are promoting fallacy that nullifies the truth of God's word. How very sad I'll keep you in my prayers.

PS As you like to say "your just making it up" there is no verse that says antichrist is a king " ROFL

There is plenty and I have showed you them, but you have shown nothing.

There you go, there are ten kings in the end in Rv17.

And another comes up after them Daniel 7.

And another verse an antichrist shall come in the last time 1Jn 2:18.

What have you shown???? "NOTHING."

You are just making it up.

Your right wing politics belongs to the unbelievers, not to the Christian faith.

Why don’t you stop teaching the Quran and teach the Bible for a change

doulos · May 8, 2012

IMINJC said:

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

In the KJV the word antichrist is not selectively capitalized, and there was no upper/lower case in the original Greek. Clearly, from the verses above, antichrist is a SPIRIT, or THE spirit, that lives in the heart of anybody that denies that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, or denies that Jesus Christ IS come in the flesh, or denies that Jesus is the Christ (anointed one). Every man that denies the Son has not the Father and is antichrist, and also is an antichrist. Jewish blindness, however, is a separate issue as per Romans 11. Regarding SDA and other cults that label the Pope or Roman Church as antichrist, I would simply ask which of the above verses they believe, the Roman Church transgresses.

Since there are billions of antichrists - and no shortage from John's day forward - it would seem there cannot be a single antichrist - not in John's day - not today. An individual antichrist can only be just ANOTHER antichrist.

The following verse is sometimes understood to suggest an individual past or future "Antichrist", but Scripture shows us how to understand this verse perfectly:

1 John 2:18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

How could the above verse make any sense if the first use of the term antichrist were supposed to be an individual person as "The" "Antichrist", when six words later we learn there are many antichrists? This is the only verse of those above that is generally construed to indicate a single individual as such. Let's develop our understanding by looking to another verse that also uses the term antichrist in a singular fashion:
1 John 4:3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

You can see the singular "that", "spirit", "it" in this sentence and singular "antichrist", just like the singular "antichrist" in 1 John 2:18. The translators gave us a little extra push in 1 John 4:3 by inserting the word [spirit] a second time, further clarifying that the spirit of antichrist is this singular entity. Now look at how this makes the "little children" verse make perfect sense if, when you get to the first use of term antichrist, you understand it as THE SPIRIT OF antichrist:

1John 2:18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Finally look also at how beautifully parallel these two verse snippets are:

"ye have heard that antichrist shall come"
"ye have heard that it should come"

Look at the fruit of misunderstanding. Some say "The" "Antichrist" was Nero. Perhaps suggesting "he" is over and done with. Futurists are looking for some future individual "Antichrist" of the silver screen yet to come. Others you can find on the Internet, of which there is no shortage, proffer guesses from the leader of Spain, to the Pope, to Ronald Reagan.
Meanwhile there are 1.5 billion antichrists in Islam alone. This doesn't even count the atheist neighbor down your block where your kids go to hang out. The Church has been deceived into looking in the wrong place. Has the Church's looking for some individual "Antichrist", past or present, also made it look like so much buffoonery to those outside of the Church?

But here is how Satan succeeded the most through this concept. The term antichrist has been removed from the Christian vocabulary except when used to describe some individual boogeyman. Who would casually refer to the atheist that lives down the block as an antichrist, yet wouldn't this be correct? How much more soul searching might that individual do if we did? Who have you heard refer to the 1.5 billion Muslims as antichrists?

Consider also that God likely had John write so much later than the others so that he could address the myriad of heresies that had already infiltrated the Church, even in John's day. Consider all of the "overcommeth"ing of Revelation Chapters 2 and 3. The above verses in effect saying "you've heard that antichrist is coming, but it's already here!". Even if there had been such a concept of a single antichrist in the Church, consider the wording: "ye have heard". Perhaps like "ye have heard that toads give people warts", but that doesn't mean that it's true.
Consider a similar verse:

Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 4 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

IMINJC · May 9, 2012

DOULOS

YOU SAID: Clearly, from the verses above, antichrist is a SPIRIT, or THE spirit, that lives in the heart of anybody that denies that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, or denies that Jesus Christ IS come in the flesh, or denies that Jesus is the Christ (anointed one).

You are correct...The writer was definitely trying to show that there is a "Spirit" of antchrist in the hearts and minds of any person that denies that Jesus has come in the flesh. Just as there is a " Spirit" of Jesus that is in the hearts and minds of anyone who proclaims that Jesus has come in the flesh.

My point is this...The idealogies and philosophies that flows through the hearts and minds of men always come from a primary "Source." That source in it's self is never a "Spirit." It is always and I mean always, an intelligent "being" or "person." For example, the "Spirit" of Communisim was perpetrated by Karl Marx, those who still hold to his view of things one could say have a "Marxist Spirit" about them. The same could be said of Adolf Hitler, Charles Calvin, or anyone else who has had a major influence on the hearts and minds of people.

The primary source of the spirit of the antichrist is of course the devil, but scripture reveals that this antichrist spirit will manifest in the flesh just as the "Word" of God was manifested in the flesh in the earth. This person will be given a measure of rule over the entire earth for a very short time and in the end, he and his false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire alive by the Angel's of the Lord. The writer refers to this person in 1JN 2:18 as (The antichrist)...

Notice the writer does not say here that "You have heard that the spirit which is antichrist is to come".... It CLEARLY states that.... ".... and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come... Singular....and then to make it even more clear that he was referring to one individual he says the following... even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

You are mistaken when you say that antichrist is a spirit and nothing else. The Bible does not say that.

The official doctrine of the Antichrist / king / leader in the end

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