Sabbath made for Man

[Spiritual_Plague]

No, this is not Christians observing the Sabbath day. These are Jews observing the Sabbath day in their jewish synagogues and Christians going to Jewish meeting places to teach them about Jesus Christ.

Gentiles knew that the Christians came out to preach to the Jews every Sabbath and wanted to learn the gospel when the Christians came back to preach.

Act 18:4 "And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks."

Act 18:12-13 "When Gallio was proconsul of Achaia, the Jews with one accord rose up against Paul and brought him to the judgment seat, 13 saying, "This [fellow] persuades men to worship God contrary to the law.""

The Context of the scriptures clears up all the questions you posed.

The point you brought up between John 5 and Colossians 2 isn't true to their contexts either. In the context of Colossians 2 it is talking about requirements of the law that we are not under anymore: things regarding eating and drinking, festivals and sabbaths. Chapter 2 isn't about being judged by practicing these things, it's about being judged by NOT practicing these things. The requirements have been wiped away and so has the obligation to observe them. There were people who were still trying to force observations of eating and drinking, and festivals and sabbaths onto new covenant Christians, and Paul was telling them they have no such obligation to observe those things anymore.

 

[loveme1]

No, this is not Christians observing the Sabbath day. These are Jews observing the Sabbath day in their jewish synagogues and Christians going to Jewish meeting places to teach them about Jesus Christ.

Gentiles knew that the Christians came out to preach to the Jews every Sabbath and wanted to learn the gospel when the Christians came back to preach.

Act 18:4 "And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks."

Act 18:12-13 "When Gallio was proconsul of Achaia, the Jews with one accord rose up against Paul and brought him to the judgment seat, 13 saying, "This [fellow] persuades men to worship God contrary to the law.""

The Context of the scriptures clears up all the questions you posed.

The point you brought up between John 5 and Colossians 2 isn't true to their contexts either. In the context of Colossians 2 it is talking about requirements of the law that we are not under anymore: things regarding eating and drinking, festivals and sabbaths. Chapter 2 isn't about being judged by practicing these things, it's about being judged by NOT practicing these things. The requirements have been wiped away and so has the obligation to observe them. There were people who were still trying to force observations of eating and drinking, and festivals and sabbaths onto new covenant Christians, and Paul was telling them they have no such obligation to observe those things anymore.

We are not under the Law of Moses, No... but the 10 Commandments are what condemned you, it is what you needed Salvation from the penalty of your trespass....

I see how the same words mean different things to each of us, and having read the Old testament through to the New testament I received a very different understanding.


But what comes to my mind between you and I is that if we put this verse between our understandings:

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

You my friend with regret have fallen on the side of teaching against.

Think not I consider my self great, but since yesterday this verse came to me and it can define which of us be doing what Yahshua the Messiah said do and which of us he said not to.

You have become a"paul says", not that paul taught wrong, it is just many use his writing to justify disobedience to Yahvah God. Which paul himself would of rebuked you for.

He was teaching the New covenant which is :

31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Yahshua the Messiah is the only way to be part of the New covenant.

 

[loveme1]

1 Corinthians

10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

 

[Spiritual_Plague]

Yes, the law including the 10 commandments gave knowledge of sin (Romans 7:7), but I've been delivered from the law including the 10 commandments according to the context of Romans 7 and have been joined to Christ with His commands to observe, not the law's.

Rom 10:4 "For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

Gal 5:22-23
"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law."

-About the scriptures you mentioned in Matthew-

Take some time to read it over a few times and consider that the scriptures have a clear answer to the questions drawn from Matthew 5:17-18.

Matthew 5:17-18
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

Why did Jesus come?
"To fulfill" (v.17)

When will things of the law pass away?
When "all is fulfilled" (v.18)

Was all fulfilled?
Yes, that's how it was possible for the law to change at all:
Hbr 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law."

Jesus accomplished what He came to do.

-Concerning the new covenant-

Jesus Christ Himself IS the new covenant. HE brought His own law with His own commandments to be observed.

Isa 42:1, 4
"Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One [in whom] My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles...4 the coastlands shall wait for His law."

This elect one was coming with His own law.

Isa 42:6 "I, the LORD, have called You in righteousness, And will hold Your hand; I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the Gentiles,"

The elect one was the covenant.

So when you read the prophecy of the New Covenant in Jeremiah you need to notice carefully that it is NOT according to the covenant that was made before. The covenant before was the 10 commandments. The New covenant according to the prophecies is Jesus Christ and the Law spoken of is NOT the 10 commandments, it is Jesus' law that He taught for us to observe.

Mat 28:19 "Go therefore [fn] and make disciples of all the nations...20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you"

 

[loveme1]

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Yahshua the Messiah summarized the 10 Commandments with 2, you are ignoring scripture.

The idea that we can be forgiven of trespassing the 10 Commandments by Yahshua the Messiah, only to say then that we must not obey the 10 Commandments that condemned us, does not make sense.


And surely not a loving obedience always favours our Yahvah God's 10 Commandments even if you have doubt, is it not better to put the doubt in favour of obeying Yahvah God?


Are you not walking over the New covenant by not obeying that which condemned you?

Why will so many spend time and effort teaching people not to keep the 10 Commandments.

Grace is what saves us, not works.....

Does that Grace not humble you to want to please Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah?

Why is keeping the Sabbath any different to loving thy neighbour? or thou shall not steal?

Is it because you may have to give up something to observe it?

If you love Yahshua the Messiah you love Yahvah God who sent him, is that love shown by doing his will?

Or by making it void by scripture that was never intended for that use?

Psalm 111

111 Praise ye the Lord. I will praise the Lord with my whole heart, in the assembly of the upright, and in the congregation.

2 The works of the Lord are great, sought out of all them that have pleasure therein.

3 His work is honourable and glorious: and his righteousness endureth for ever.

4 He hath made his wonderful works to be remembered: the Lord is gracious and full of compassion.

5 He hath given meat unto them that fear him: he will ever be mindful of his covenant.

6 He hath shewed his people the power of his works, that he may give them the heritage of the heathen.

7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.

8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.

9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

 

[Spiritual_Plague]

Everything commanded in the New Covenant scriptures is what I observe.

All but one of the 10 commandments is commanded to be observed in the New Covenant writings, and I'm sure you know which one that is.

I live like that, because that's how Jesus said to live under the law He was prophesied to bring:

Mat 28:19 "Go therefore [fn] and make disciples of all the nations...20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you"

 

[loveme1]

To me this verse:


Revelation 14

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Affirms the message I received.

I actually use it often and should re-name myself by it

I have come to see how that verse means something different to others.

Sabbath is 1 of 10 Commandments and Salvation is by Grace...

Just be careful not to partake in teaching against 1 of the 10 even if you only keep 9.

Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

 

[gotime]

Yes, the law including the 10 commandments gave knowledge of sin (Romans 7:7), but I've been delivered from the law including the 10 commandments according to the context of Romans 7 and have been joined to Christ with His commands to observe, not the law's.

I would check that again if I were you. Paul clearly shows that we are delivered from the condemnation of the law. however read his illustration in the beginning of chapter 7, notice that it us us that dies not the law (Vs 4). we die to self and live now because of Jesus. Paul is very clear that the law is good and Holy and just. (Vs 12)

Rom 10:4 "For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

Gal 5:22-23
"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law."

-About the scriptures you mentioned in Matthew-

Take some time to read it over a few times and consider that the scriptures have a clear answer to the questions drawn from Matthew 5:17-18.

Matthew 5:17-18
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

Why did Jesus come?
"To fulfill" (v.17)

When will things of the law pass away?
When "all is fulfilled" (v.18)

Was all fulfilled?
Yes, that's how it was possible for the law to change at all:
Hbr 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law."

Here you are mixing things up a little, If you go back to Mathew chapter 5 you might notice something. Notice verse 18 says that the law will not be fulfilled until heaven and earth pass away. now the last time I checked the earth is still here and we are still waiting for the new heavens and the new earth of revelation. Thus it is an improper use of Jesus words to suggest that the law passed away at the cross, when Jesus clearly states that the earth will pass away before the law is fulfilled.

now Hbr 7, I suggest you read the rest of Hebrews. chapter 8 talks about the priesthood and the sanctuary pointing to the real heavenly sanctuary where Jesus would act as high priest. chapter 10 tells us that it is the law of sacrificing animals that changes. why? because they were all pointing to Jesus sacrifice. Contextually you have no grounds in Hebrews to say the commandments are changed. on top of that the sanctuary showed that the ark was in the most Holy Place and the purpose of the ark was to hold the 10 commandments. which is mentioned in Hebrews also. so the very primes of Hebrews is that the law of God is in heaven also. John say the ark of the testimony in heaven also in revelation.

Jesus accomplished what He came to do.

-Concerning the new covenant-

Jesus Christ Himself IS the new covenant. HE brought His own law with His own commandments to be observed.


Isa 42:1, 4
"Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One [in whom] My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles...4 the coastlands shall wait for His law."

Continue reading and you will see in vs 20 of that same chapter that the Jesus would magnify the law and make it honorable. Now Magnify indicates making it plainer. now go read matt 5 again and notice the law that will not be fullfilled before the earth passes away is magnified by Jesus. Make it honorable, The law is based on love, Jesus emphasis that Love is the foundation of the law. If you love me he said keep my commandments.

This elect one was coming with His own law.

Isa 42:6 "I, the LORD, have called You in righteousness, And will hold Your hand; I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the Gentiles,"

The elect one was the covenant.

So when you read the prophecy of the New Covenant in Jeremiah you need to notice carefully that it is NOT according to the covenant that was made before. The covenant before was the 10 commandments. The New covenant according to the prophecies is Jesus Christ and the Law spoken of is NOT the 10 commandments, it is Jesus' law that He taught for us to observe.

Read Hebrews and see what Jeremiah was meaning. see how the author of Hebrews interperates Jeremiah 31, Heb 8:10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:.

Notice that he says that God will put his laws into their mind and write them in their hearts. so all that is happening here is the law is now in them rather than outside them on stone.

Mat 28:19 "Go therefore [fn] and make disciples of all the nations...20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you"

Amen all things. commandments included, Jesus did teach to keep the 10 commandments often. I did not go into detail here, take a look at the verses. I am sure you love the lord and are following what you believe is right but I challenge you to take away your bias for a moment and read all these passages again. Blessings

 

[Red33]

No, you see our New covenant is Yahshua the Messiah.

Grace takes the condemnation of sin!!!!

You are making your own idea of the covenant up here, you must stop...


He did not take the Law away, he took the penalty of breaking the Law of Yahvah God.

He fulfilled the Law of Moses to be the only sin offering for our Trespass.

To you, what does it mean for a believer to be continuously filled with the Spirit? If we are filled with the Spirit are we going to fulfill the lust of the flesh? No! If we are filled with the Spirit are we going to walk in the light of truth and fulfill the royal law of love? Yes! As believers we are to abide in Christ and let His words abide in us so the Spirit can guide us, lead us and fill us with the fruit of the Spirit. When we have this going on in our soul we are going to walk by faith and have the promises of God to live and trust God for in the details of life. To make the commandments as something we must keep and live by without the filling of the Spirit and the promises of God is just striving in the flesh to please God and in that there is nothing good.

To be filled with the fruit of the Spirit, against that there is no law to keep or be judged by. Many try to keep the commandments in place of being filled with the Spirit to feel that they have accomplished something for God and honored His commandments. I am not against the commandments but I am against how we fulfill them in our walk. They can not be legislated and must be fulfilled and maintained by faith through the grace of God. Any work that we take on concerning the things of God must be done through Christ by grace and through faith or it counts for nothing.

When Christ fulfilled the law He made it possible for us to come to Him and rest in His accomplishment and abide in Him. Abiding in Him takes out the 'work complex' that so many are oriented to because of how they view justification and the righteousness of God in relationship to right living. Through grace the believer must be oriented in believing the promises of God which God will be faithful to keep. We take those promises and mix faith with them in the will of God and do what God leads and calls us to do in the details and work of His plan. The servant of the Lord must not strive but be faithful to what he is called to do and continue to rest in Christ. To the Spirit-filled believer the Sabbath-rest is a condition of the soul they have through Christ that keeps them and not something they have to keep.

 

[loveme1]

To you, what does it mean for a believer to be continuously filled with the Spirit? If we are filled with the Spirit are we going to fulfill the lust of the flesh? No! If we are filled with the Spirit are we going to walk in the light of truth and fulfill the royal law of love? Yes! As believers we are to abide in Christ and let His words abide in us so the Spirit can guide us, lead us and fill us with the fruit of the Spirit. When we have this going on in our soul we are going to walk by faith and have the promises of God to live and trust God for in the details of life. To make the commandments as something we must keep and live by without the filling of the Spirit and the promises of God is just striving in the flesh to please God and in that there is nothing good.

To be filled with the fruit of the Spirit, against that there is no law to keep or be judged by. Many try to keep the commandments in place of being filled with the Spirit to feel that they have accomplished something for God and honored His commandments. I am not against the commandments but I am against how we fulfill them in our walk. They can not be legislated and must be fulfilled and maintained by faith through the grace of God. Any work that we take on concerning the things of God must be done through Christ by grace and through faith or it counts for nothing.

When Christ fulfilled the law He made it possible for us to come to Him and rest in His accomplishment and abide in Him. Abiding in Him takes out the 'work complex' that so many are oriented to because of how they view justification and the righteousness of God in relationship to right living. Through grace the believer must be oriented in believing the promises of God which God will be faithful to keep. We take those promises and mix faith with them in the will of God and do what God leads and calls us to do in the details and work of His plan. The servant of the Lord must not strive but be faithful to what he is called to do and continue to rest in Christ. To the Spirit-filled believer the Sabbath-rest is a condition of the soul they have through Christ that keeps them and not something they have to keep.

It is by being filled with the Holy spirit that I have a loving obedience toward the 10 Commandments of Yahvah God.


It is the Holy Spirit that changed me from within.

I can only witness that which i received.


Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

I never felt the "you must", I always felt the "I shall"

Some here fail to see the message being relayed, they see not that scripture is for what I share and against what they share.

 

[JaumeJ]

Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

In the above quote of Yeshua from the KJV we understand that the Son of Man (Yeshua) is Lord also of the sabbath.

Below, in context, anyone is able to understand this was true with the men of King David even under the Mosaic laws. Jesus, Yeshua, was also tempted by the hypocrites about healing on the sabbath, and again it is indicated that there is no time off from doing good if it is YHWH's will. So we may help others, heal and whatever other good deed on the sabbath, but this by no means makes null and void YHWH's commandment to keep the sabbath on the seventh day, the day He, Himself, rested from creating all that we know of as creation, and it is a lesson of what is to come the true eternal resting in YHWH because of Jesus, Yeshua.

Mar 2:23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
Mar 2:24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
Mar 2:25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?
Mar 2:26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

 

[Red33]

Keeping the Sabbath holy means to remember the Sabbath, when God rested from all His works. They were great works of creation and reveal the goodness of God toward man and for man who He created, but the work of redemption that God sent His Son to accomplish on the cross is a greater work that we are to remember and keep holy. To find and keep this Sabbath-rest we must come to Christ and cease from all our labours, even those labours that involve keeping the law through the flesh.

This Sabbath-rest is made for man through the redemption that is in Christ. Jesus Christ is the Lord of this Sabbath-rest. We rest in Him, who created all things and by Him all things consist. The seventh day Sabbath of God's work of creation is only a shadow of the Sabbath-rest we have in Christ, our Creator, Saviour and our Redeemer. God created man in His image and through the fall that image was lost to sin. God sent His Son to redeem us and makes us new creatures in Christ and to give us eternal rest for our souls. This Sabbath-rest far exceeds any Sabbath that man can keep on a given day. This Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath, this is why Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath. He was pointing to Himself when He made that statement in (Mk 2:27,28).

 

[gotime]

Keeping the Sabbath holy means to remember the Sabbath, when God rested from all His works. They were great works of creation and reveal the goodness of God toward man and for man who He created, but the work of redemption that God sent His Son to accomplish on the cross is a greater work that we are to remember and keep holy. To find and keep this Sabbath-rest we must come to Christ and cease from all our labours, even those labours that involve keeping the law through the flesh.

This Sabbath-rest is made for man through the redemption that is in Christ. Jesus Christ is the Lord of this Sabbath-rest. We rest in Him, who created all things and by Him all things consist. The seventh day Sabbath of God's work of creation is only a shadow of the Sabbath-rest we have in Christ, our Creator, Saviour and our Redeemer. God created man in His image and through the fall that image was lost to sin. God sent His Son to redeem us and makes us new creatures in Christ and to give us eternal rest for our souls. This Sabbath-rest far exceeds any Sabbath that man can keep on a given day. This Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath, this is why Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath. He was pointing to Himself when He made that statement in (Mk 2:27,28).

How exactly is the 7th day Sabbath a shadow?

Answer: its not. look up where shadow is used with examples and you will see that a shadow points forward to the greater. however the 7th day Sabbath does not point forwards but backwards to something that is already done. In this case creation. Thus the 7th day Sabbath is a manorial of creation and until the creation account changes, the Sabbath wont change.

The problem with your argument is that you change the original Sabbath meaning. It clearly points back to creation, and yes Jesus is the creator as seen in John and colosions etc.

Yes we find rest in Christ from sin, but how exactly does that change the reason for the Sabbath according to creation?

Answer: it doesn't, however Jesus death did do something to the Sabbath. it enhanced it and made it more honorable.

If you read the account Jesus finished his work on earth on the cross and then rested on the 7th day Sabbath in the grave. now again he rested "after" he had done all his work on earth.

Key Point, both in creation and in redemption Jesus rested after he had done the work. Thus the 7th day Sabbath remains a memorial to both creation and redemption. funny how people want to change that.

but remember that the primary reason for the 7th day Sabbath is creation. Jesus death totally added to its meaning.

When we put aside the Sabbath we put aside the creator and redeemer. we put aside Jesus so that we can do our own thing.

 

[Red33]

How exactly is the 7th day Sabbath a shadow?

Answer: its not. look up where shadow is used with examples and you will see that a shadow points forward to the greater. however the 7th day Sabbath does not point forwards but backwards to something that is already done. In this case creation. Thus the 7th day Sabbath is a manorial of creation and until the creation account changes, the Sabbath wont change.

The problem with your argument is that you change the original Sabbath meaning. It clearly points back to creation, and yes Jesus is the creator as seen in John and colosions etc.

Yes we find rest in Christ from sin, but how exactly does that change the reason for the Sabbath according to creation?

Answer: it doesn't, however Jesus death did do something to the Sabbath. it enhanced it and made it more honorable.

If you read the account Jesus finished his work on earth on the cross and then rested on the 7th day Sabbath in the grave. now again he rested "after" he had done all his work on earth.

Key Point, both in creation and in redemption Jesus rested after he had done the work. Thus the 7th day Sabbath remains a memorial to both creation and redemption. funny how people want to change that.

but remember that the primary reason for the 7th day Sabbath is creation. Jesus death totally added to its meaning.

When we put aside the Sabbath we put aside the creator and redeemer. we put aside Jesus so that we can do our own thing.

I have only one multiple question for you. Tell me what you consider to be greater... creation or the Creator, works or faith in the blood of the Lamb, the law or the grace of God, Moses or Christ, the flesh or the Spirit, resurrection life or death, the cross or self preservation, the living God or the god of this world system, the promises of God or the commandments?

 

[gotime]

I have only one multiple question for you. Tell me what you consider to be greater... creation or the Creator, works or faith in the blood of the Lamb, the law or the grace of God, Moses or Christ, the flesh or the Spirit, resurrection life or death, the cross or self preservation, the living God or the god of this world system, the promises of God or the commandments?

Interesting question.

The creator is greater than the Creation, yet how do I honor the creator while ignoring his creation?

Faith is greater than works, yet faith without works is dead. so how do i live in faith without works?

Grace is great indeed but so is law. are they not both a revelation of the creator? Law reveals the justice and love of the creator while Grace reveals the forgiveness and love of the creator. How can I accept one part of Gods Character and ignore the other?

Christ is greater than Moses, as the creator is greater than the creation, yet if I do not love the creation then how can I love the creator?

The Spirit is greater than the Flesh, yet the Flesh represents sin in most passages or els it simply means flesh matter/ our body. One can not deny we have a body, but obviously the Spirit leads to righteousness while the flesh leads to sin. clearly the Gods Spirit is greater than our flesh.

Life is greater than death, the Cross greater than self, the one true God greater than false Gods,

The promise of God or the commandments. problem there is the commandments play a big part in the promise of God. If you love me, keep my commandments.

Your argument is based on flawed logic. you are trying to say that because one is greater then the other that the lesser is obsolete and useless. This is no biblical. shall I love God and not man because man is lesser than God? God fobid! Because God is great and I love Him I will love my fellow man who is created.

Because God is the creator do I make obsolete "His" I say again "His" holy day that "He" gave and "He" made Holy?

lets stop baptism because its only a symbol and is not as great as Jesus actual death and Resurrection. Lets not carry our cross because Jesus carried it for us.

See where this logic goes. Lets stop having communion, yeah lets stop the eating of bread and the wine. after all its only a symbol or memorial to remember what Jesus did by giving his body and blood. Jesus actual body and blood is greater than communion.

If you are going to do away with the Sabbath for that reason then you should do away with everything God commanded so that we may remember. Both the sabbath and communion were commanded as a memorial one of creation the other of the death of Jesus for our sins.

I think my point is clear.

blessings

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

How exactly is the 7th day Sabbath a shadow?

colossians 2:16-17..."Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

 

[gotime]

colossians 2:16-17..."Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

Good quote, one that in no way upholds the position against the 7th day Sabbath.

Notice that a shadow in verse 17 is of things to come. That means the thing is not yet (that is it is not yet when the shadow is instituted). So now we also need to acknowledge that there are ceremonial Sabbaths which are joined to Jewish feasts and there is the 7th day Sabbath.

It's really easy to know which Paul has in mind hear for two reasons.

1: he mentions with the Sabbath days, new moons, religious festival and eating and drinking. all these were common on ceremonial feasts which actually pointed to Jesus.

So yes the feast Sabbath's which you can find in Leviticus and else where fit what Paul is saying here.

2: The 7th day Sabbath never pointed forward but rather pointed backwards as a memorial to something that was already done. The very reason the Sabbath was made Holy is because it pointed backwards/remember, to an already fulfilled application. Thus there is no way that the 7th day Sabbath fits the meaning given by Paul here.

blessings

 

[feedm3]

The entire Law of Moses was but a shadow of Christ and the church. From the tabernacle, to the slaying of a lamb without blemish. The tabernacle had two rooms, the holiest and most holiest separated by a veil. These rooms represent the body of Christ, and heaven.

The 7th day of God's rest represents the past, creation, and the future, Christ's rule when he would be given all authority in heave and earth, and rule over His people - Matt 28:18, Col 1:28. This is the NT this is God's rest, in which the Sabbath foreshadowed.

Matt 28:18 And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth

I Cor 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death

I Cor 15:28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all

Christ is reign now, God has given him, the church, the body of the saved - Mat 16:18-19.
He will rule until the end, when he destroys death, and delivers up the kingdom to God, and submits to the Father himsel - I Cor 15:58.

The 7th day sabbath, was a part of the Law, a shadow of the reign of Chirst, which is why he said, "he was Lord of the Sabbath" - Matt 12:8


Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of the good things to come, not the very image of the things, can never with the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect them that draw nigh

The 7th day is a shadow of the reign of Christ:
Hebrews Chapter 4 - Two rests spoken of here: God's rest, as in the NT during Christ's reign, and the "sabbath rest" which is heaven, in which we will rest.
1 Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard.

3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest;( we are already in this rest, it is the NT, the rest of God) even as he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.(They the Jews that hardened their hearts, they did not enter into the NT, nor the promise land as this symbolized because of their stubboness, symbolic or shadow, of those who rejected Christ)

4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;
5 and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto, and they to whom the good tidings were before preached failed to enter in because of disobedience, (The gospel was first preached to the Jews, rememeber when Christ gave the limited commission, go not unto the Gentiles but unot the lost sheep of the house of Isreal - Matt 10:5-10)

7 he again defineth a certain day, To- day, saying in David so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before), To- day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God. (This rest we are in now is not the sabbath rest, during the "sabbath rest" we will also cease from our works, as God did from his, now we are in God's rest and Christ's reign).

10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his.( This is heaven, in which we are to strive for)
11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest,(Heaven) that no man fall after the same example of disobedience (the jews, in the time of the wilderness and in the time of Chirst).

 

[feedm3]

Good quote, one that in no way upholds the position against the 7th day Sabbath.

Notice that a shadow in verse 17 is of things to come. That means the thing is not yet (that is it is not yet when the shadow is instituted). So now we also need to acknowledge that there are ceremonial Sabbaths which are joined to Jewish feasts and there is the 7th day Sabbath.

with due respect, that is wrong. He says they are a shadow - meaning they are still being practiced, of the the things to come.

Not meaning these things have not come, even though it would sound that way. We know this because of what he says next:
"But the body is of Christ". The word "is" is probably in italics in your translations as it is in mine. Meaning "is" was added for clarification. Yet these sometimes can be misplaced by the translators because they miss the message of the passage.

The passage literally says in the Greek "The body of Christ". So the passage as a whole says, "which are a shadow of thing the to come , "the body of Christ".

This makes since without the "is". They foreshadowed the body of Christ. What is the body of Christ? It is the church - Col 1:18, he is head of the Body, the church.

The church had already came, and Paul wrote in Eph 4, "there is one body". The Law foreshadowed this body, including the sabbath, as Paul says we cannot be judged for anymore.

The reason he say "of things to come" was to show the purpose of the law while it was valid. It's job was to foreshadow the things to come. Paul's point in saying that was that the true image of what it foreshadowed, has came, so their is no need in living under the shadow, same message as in Hebrews.

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation

Now we have the true image in which it foreshadowed, including the Sabbath: - Gal 4:4, when the fullness of times was come, God sent forth his son...

1: he mentions with the Sabbath days, new moons, religious festival and eating and drinking. all these were common on ceremonial feasts which actually pointed to Jesus.

So yes the feast Sabbath's which you can find in Leviticus and else where fit what Paul is saying here.

2: The 7th day Sabbath never pointed forward but rather pointed backwards as a memorial to something that was already done. The very reason the Sabbath was made Holy is because it pointed backwards/remember, to an already fulfilled application. Thus there is no way that the 7th day Sabbath fits the meaning given by Paul here.

Wrong again, the sabbath symblozied two things. God's rest during Creation, and God's rest during the reign of Christ. Also our rest in Heaven is called a "sabbath rest".

So it fits perfect with what Paul said in Col. That is why he said it, He would not say that which does not fit.
Notice also that that in that passages, Paul "and of the Sabbath days", again "days" in written in Italics, so Literally, Paul said "and of the Sabbath", giving the Idea of the the Sabbath day as it is called by the Jews, simply the Sabbath".

Also Jesus said he was Lord of the Sabbath, showing it was pointing to him, and we should not abide by any part of the Law, we are under the NT, in which we are never commanded to keep the sabbath day. NOwhere is that found, because it does not apply to us.

 

[gotime]

The entire Law of Moses was but a shadow of Christ and the church.Where in the bible is that taught?From the tabernacle, to the slaying of a lamb without blemish. The tabernacle had two rooms, the holiest and most holiest separated by a veil. These rooms represent the body of Christ, and heaven.



The 7th day of God's rest represents the past, creation, and the future, Christ's rule when he would be given all authority in heave and earth, and rule over His people - Matt 28:18, Col 1:28. This is the NT this is God's rest, in which the Sabbath foreshadowed. So you acknowledge that the Sabbath is about creation yet seem to think that creation has changed now that Jesus has died. You do know that Jesus rested in the grave after saying "it is finished" he rested on the 7th day Sabbath according to the Gospel

Matt 28:18 And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth

I Cor 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death

I Cor 15:28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all

Christ is reign now, God has given him, the church, the body of the saved - Mat 16:18-19.
He will rule until the end, when he destroys death, and delivers up the kingdom to God, and submits to the Father himsel - I Cor 15:58.

The 7th day sabbath, was a part of the Law, a shadow of the reign of Chirst, which is why he said, "he was Lord of the Sabbath" - Matt 12:8That is an interesting spin on what Jesus said. I though he said he was Lord of the Sabbath because he was Lord of the Sabbath. In fact the verse before that shows that the creation is in mind when he says "the sabbath was made for man" Jesus is the creator and if Jesus created then he is the Lord of creation and Lord of the Sabbath. lets not give it any old meaning that fits our view.


Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of the good things to come, not the very image of the things, can never with the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect them that draw nighGood verse, however you ignore the very fact that the law spoken of here is the law of sacrifices clearly shown in the verse itself. remember a shadow looks forward, the sacrifices pointed to Jesus the lamb who takes away the sins of the world. You would be pretty hard pressed to say that the law here is the 10 commandments. in fact there is no backing at all for that view within the context of Hebrews.

The 7th day is a shadow of the reign of Christ:
Hebrews Chapter 4 - Two rests spoken of here: God's rest, as in the NT during Christ's reign, and the "sabbath rest" which is heaven, in which we will rest.
1 Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard.

3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest;( we are already in this rest, it is the NT, the rest of God) even as he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.(They the Jews that hardened their hearts, they did not enter into the NT, nor the promise land as this symbolized because of their stubboness, symbolic or shadow, of those who rejected Christ)

4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;
5 and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto, and they to whom the good tidings were before preached failed to enter in because of disobedience, (The gospel was first preached to the Jews, rememeber when Christ gave the limited commission, go not unto the Gentiles but unot the lost sheep of the house of Isreal - Matt 10:5-10)

7 he again defineth a certain day, To- day, saying in David so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before), To- day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God. (This rest we are in now is not the sabbath rest, during the "sabbath rest" we will also cease from our works, as God did from his, now we are in God's rest and Christ's reign).

10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his.( This is heaven, in which we are to strive for)
11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest,(Heaven) that no man fall after the same example of disobedience (the jews, in the time of the wilderness and in the time of Chirst).

I will tackle Hebrews in a seperat post after this one.