TRUE GRACE MEANS YOU SIN NO MORE

[Deadtosin]

What you mean with that I said "it wasn't clear"? I did not say that. The law of God is clear on that internal and external sins are both equally sins before God. It is displayed for example in the command "thou shalt not covet" (Exo.20:17). Jesus taught nothing new, He taught exactly in line with what Torah (the law of God says) in full on the matter. The pharisees had a shallow sin concept that primarily dealt with the external.

I never suggested that the original 10 are not sins. I am saying that there was an improvement made. Such a vast improvement that the 10 commandments is outdated. They are still sins, but there are infinitely more sins than the OT states clearly. You may say all sins fall under those categories, okay. I see in my heart enough details of sin that a book could never carry enough words to describe. I could sin against God by simply not doing what He asks me to do. Literally. Was it a sin in the OT not to give a homeless guy my last dollar? it can be now, if the Spirit of the Lord commands me too and I don't obey.

 

[Deadtosin]

oh and when I said "you say it wasn't clear" I was just stating to the best of my ability that you are saying the Pharisees were confused on the internal as well as external significance of sin written in the OT.

 

[OFM]

WE SINN LESS AND LESS EACH DAY BUT WE R NOT YET SIN FREE HERE ON EARTH BUT WILL BE IN HEAVEN FOREVER ETERNALLY SIN FREE.

 

[tribesman]

I never suggested that the original 10 are not sins. I am saying that there was an improvement made. Such a vast improvement that the 10 commandments is outdated. They are still sins, but there are infinitely more sins than the OT states clearly. You may say all sins fall under those categories, okay. I see in my heart enough details of sin that a book could never carry enough words to describe. I could sin against God by simply not doing what He asks me to do. Literally. Was it a sin in the OT not to give a homeless guy my last dollar? it can be now, if the Spirit of the Lord commands me too and I don't obey.

There was no "improvement". What would need to be "improved"? "The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple" (Ps.19:7). There is no "new" law. Actually Jesus did not teach anything "new", He honored His Father's law. God gave but one law, He is not commanding anything more or less than that.

 

[Deadtosin]

There was no "improvement". What would need to be "improved"? "The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple" (Ps.19:7). There is no "new" law. Actually Jesus did not teach anything "new", He honored His Father's law. God gave but one law, He is not commanding anything more or less than that.

Jeremiah 31:33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Brother, we both believe the same thing. We are arguing over nothing. I have faith in the Spirit of God within me. I don't have to read a law, I have it inside of me. And it is more detailed than any 10 written anywhere. You see both all in 1. There is no problem with us admiring a painting in different ways
God bless you brother.

 

[edward99]

I'm sorry, you either do not have the ability to express your thoughts correctly, or, you are one very confused person. That doesn't mean that I do not love you, however, as a minister I believe you need to do some more study in God's word. We are all sinners until the day we are glorified and not until then. May I ask what Bible you are using and if it applies, what denomination you follow? Cheers

I believe Moe was saying that he is a minister.

Thanks Tribesman, I see it now.
Sorry Moe.

 

[Adhis]

What you mean with that I said "it wasn't clear"? I did not say that. I will say that the law of God is clear on that internal and external sins are both equally sins before God. It is displayed for example in the command "thou shalt not covet" (Exo.20:17).

Jesus taught nothing new, He taught exactly in line with what Torah (the law of God) says in full on the matter. The pharisees had a shallow sin concept that primarily dealt with the external.

I agree that Jesus came to reinforce the law by making it more clear to us exactly what the law was intended for . He brought a better understanding. There is a saying that the" heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart". For even the external sin to be committed it originated from the heart. The heart (internal) of man is the root problem this is where sin is and this is what Jesus made clear to us.

I believe the early leaders misunderstood what the law meant and what it was for, that is why they challenged Jesus with the law thinking that He was going against. But He made it clear that He wasn't

Be blessed everyone

 

[Hurricane1]

You are right about fornication being one of the sins that overtake some of the israelites who fell away in the desert. Oftentimes this fornication was tied to idolatry and idolatry is essentially spiritual fornication. Also remember that idolatry includes making an idol in one's mind/heart (making up a god of one own's thoughts of how "God" should be).

Anyways, we could go on and on with examples. It seems we are agreeing on the essentials here: that there is a difference between not living in sin and being sin-free and that believers can say no to temptations and that that is the normal mode and that sins can not excused. I am very sorry to hear what your former wife did against you. A most clear example indeed of justifying sin. And you know what the law says about the penalty for such sin and what the end will be if she does not repent.

Here I cannot say that I fully agree. Of course God's law has everything to do with christianity. Paul, the apostle of the gentiles, testified that he believed ALL that is written in the law and the prophets (Acts 24:14). True though, through the new birth the law of God is written on our circumcized hearts. But I don't see a contradiction between this and what you call "the written law". They are the same. Are you dispensationalist or similar?

Stay on!

The only thing I would caution you on here is equating the written law with the law being written on our hearts and in our minds. There is a HUGE difference here. The written law is externally applied and has human effort to obey that law. The laws being written on our hearts has everything to do with the Lord leading us through our hearts and mind. He causes us to have a true change of heart and obedience to the law due to that change of heart. Do you see the difference? One is external and of the flesh, the other is internal and is spiritual. Please read Romans 2, paying special attention to verse 14, Paul talks about this very issue.

Stay strong brother

 

[Hurricane1]

I agree that Jesus came to reinforce the law by making it more clear to us exactly what the law was intended for . He brought a better understanding. There is a saying that the" heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart". For even the external sin to be committed it originated from the heart. The heart (internal) of man is the root problem this is where sin is and this is what Jesus made clear to us.

I believe the early leaders misunderstood what the law meant and what it was for, that is why they challenged Jesus with the law thinking that He was going against. But He made it clear that He wasn't

Be blessed everyone

You must also understand that Jesus was born under, taught under and died under the Old Covenant. The New Covenant started upon His death, burial and ressurection. Everything that Jesus said about obedience to the law was put through the lens of the Old Covenant and thus, the law. Under the New Covenant, we under grace... not the law. Read Romans 2 paying special attention to verse 14.