did Christ retrun in AD 70? Matthew 24

cronjecj · Jul 5, 2012

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets,
and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that,
if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is
in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret
chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and
shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming
of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles
be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall
the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her
light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the
powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in
heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds
of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a
trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from
the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch
is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that
summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things,
know that it is near, even at the doors.

..then in verse 34 He said something very interesting,

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation
shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled

"this generation" Jesus was referring to was the
generation in His time, wasn't it ?

if so then Christ did return (in Spirit) in that particular
generation's time thus receiving His Holy Spirit from
that time onwards as promised.

His kingdom has come, it is in us. This is a spiritual
resurrection.

when we die we receive heavenly bodies which could
be the bodily resurrection Paul was speaking about.

if this is all so then the scripture that states: generation
after generation, but the world abides forever is literal
forever.

2 resurrection,

receiving of the Holy Spirit = spiritual
resurrection

death of the corruptible body = incorruptible
bodily resurrection

loveme1 · Jul 5, 2012

The Bible is not written to suggest what you say is true.

Do you offer this by listening to the Holy Spirit?

Or is this the result of reading or listening to someones personal take on the Bible?

cronjecj · Jul 5, 2012

well it depends what you are
trying to say here.

what about you, have you
heard the Holy Spirit's
audible voice before ?

you question the study without
bothering to give your thoughts
on it.

loveme1 · Jul 5, 2012

cronjecj said:

I ask to try and understand where it comes from.

The only thing that comes to mind on this study is how it suits those with an evil agenda if people believe things have been fulfilled and not to come.

So, I asked you how you came to believe this?

I'm not against you... you will believe what you believe, I asked how you come to believe is all.

cronjecj · Jul 5, 2012

loveme1 said:

people with an evil agenda ?

so i ask you now, how you came to this?

enochson · Jul 5, 2012

this event is written about by a eye wittness name (sorry about the spelling) Joesphues" the histroy of the jewish nation" he was at one time a genral in the army. He gives a first eye account of what he wittness about the temple in 70 ad and the events that where taking plaace.

psychomom · Jul 5, 2012

33 so also ye, when ye may see all these, ye know that it is nigh -- at the doors. 34 Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass. Matt. 24:33,34 YLT (bold mine)

Based on Young's, might we not infer that the Lord was speaking of the generation which sees these things come to pass, and not necessarily the one alive at the time?
~ellie

loveme1 · Jul 5, 2012

cronjecj said:

Did you think those people simply ceased?

The harvest of Good and evil is what we have been leading up to.....

Do you not see how the Bible tells us the truth about the world we live in?

Consider that there are people of this world who are assisting the evil plan of lucifer.... think not that he did not offer them much in return for their allegiance......

Remember how Yahshua the Messiah was offered all kingdoms in return for worshiping satan.

Think not that people of this world have been decieved, where our King Yahshua overcame.....

Matthew 4

Isaiah 14

Moe · Jul 5, 2012

The Bible does not teach or mention a "third" coming. No

IMINJC · Jul 5, 2012

cronjecj

First of all we know that the Lord didn't return in AD 70. Those who subscribe to this false doctrine explain some type of figurative return in heaven that happened in AD 70. We all know his return is not figurative.

ACTS 1:11
who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

Secondly, Matthew 24:34.... 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled

Jesus is referring to an unknown future generation that sees these signs come to pass in their life time. "This Generation" "What Generation?"..."The Generation that sees these events come to pass."

And besides, the disciples generation totally missed the sign that was given to it's generation of the first coming of Christ.

Zechariah 9:9
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

And when it happened....

Luke 19:38-40
“ ‘Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord!’[d]
Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!”

39 And some of the Pharisees called to Him from the crowd, “Teacher, rebuke Your disciples.”
40 But He answered and said to them, “I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out.”

The signs of Jesus first coming was given to the disciples generation to recognize but they missed it so Jesus called it an evil generation. The signs that would signal his return was meant for an unknown future generation to recognize...hopefully it wont be as blind as the disciples generation was.

1still_waters · Jul 5, 2012

AD 70 and Matthew 24 were a coming of judgement upon Jerusalem. Hyper-preterist heretics like to conflate this coming of judgement with the final coming of Jesus to restore creation. They are two separate events.

The Matthew 24 coming in judgement on Jerusalem is similar to the Isaiah 19 coming of judgement on Egypt.

19 The burden against Egypt.

Behold, the Lord rides on a swift cloud,
And will come into Egypt;
The idols of Egypt will totter at His presence,

And the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst.
2 “I will set Egyptians against Egyptians;
Everyone will fight against his brother,
And everyone against his neighbor,
City against city, kingdom against kingdom.
3 The spirit of Egypt will fail in its midst;
I will destroy their counsel,
And they will consult the idols and the charmers,
The mediums and the sorcerers.
4 And the Egyptians I will give
Into the hand of a cruel master,
And a fierce king will rule over them,”
Says the Lord, the Lord of hosts.
5

There isn't a bible scholar alive who thinks God literally rode on a cloud when he judged Egypt in Isaiah 19. Similarly, in Matthew 24, Jesus uses this cloud coming language as a point of reference to THEM, so they recognize that he's saying he'll come in judgement to THIS GENERATION ie THEM. Just like in Isaiah 19, it wouldn't involve God/Jesus riding on a literal cloud like a cloud cowboy of some sort.

Graybeard · Jul 5, 2012

"this generation shall not pass..." He is talking about the generation when all these signs occur

peterT · Jul 5, 2012

cronjecj said:

The signs haven’t occurred, just the destruction of temple.

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Not yet fulfilled.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Not yet fulfilled.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Not yet fulfilled.

The building that Jesus was talking about the temple was destroyed but the signs of his coming has not yet been fulfilled.

For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.Rv19:10

1still_waters · Jul 5, 2012

Graybeard said:

No he would have said 'that generation' if it was a future one. In the Greek when 'this generation' is used, it refers to the immediate generation being spoken to.

It fits well with...

Mark 9

And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."

Luke 9:27

I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."

Matth 16:28

I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

The coming in glory of that which he spoke was the coming in judgement of Jerusalem in ad 70, of which he said it would happen to 'this generation'..ie them.

1still_waters · Jul 5, 2012

PeterT says...

Angel can also be translated messenger. His messengers of the Gospel were dispersed further out in to the world after ad70 to gather God's elect through the preaching of the Gospel. Every time someone receives the Gospel, they become the elect and are gathered in.

This was a figure of speech for times of war and invasion. When a nation was invaded, the conquering party would take the best people of the land back to THEIR land. Like with Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abendigo. They were the cream of the crop, and were moved out of Israel when invaded. The same applies to this verse.

enochson · Jul 5, 2012

This is funny I'm the only given a histical account of the event that happean and where to fine it.

Ibe · Jul 5, 2012

My Brother.

This Chapter is nothin but about the warnning of the false Christ, The Antichrist come's first 666

ask for understanding, Jesus is teaching here, and Jesus only comes twice, Once as the walking word.
Next as King of Kings,

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Listen to the Spirit now my Brother,

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

6 comes brfor 7 my Friend

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

This is the Hour of Temptaion= the Tribulation of the Antichrist
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Take Heed! 6 comes befor 7 my Friend, no rapture, Jesus is comming here and bringing his Sheep, as well as meeting us sheep in our Spirital boby's "Air"

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

6 befor 7

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

6 befor 7 My Brother

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Read That its knowen as the Hour of Temptation,
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
are you slepping with the devil and haven his child
or havsted out of season

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Stay and fight we are in a spirital battel with false teaching, Many will come

Look for my new Thread this week-end "The Hour of Temptation"

God Bless

"Ibe"

loveme1 · Jul 6, 2012

If only you could see how the evil rebellion will say and do anything to deceive you...
The end times is to come.

Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

Matt777 · Jul 6, 2012

I see these verses as referring to the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Jesus also said his Kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36) and that the Kingdom of God is within (Luke 17:21).

The disciples died and there was no end of the world, no final judgement, nothing. Nor was the gospel preached in every nation on the face of the earth. So how you can you say his second coming already happened?

1still_waters · Jul 6, 2012

Matt777 said:

Colossians 1:5

5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

1:23

23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

did Christ retrun in AD 70? Matthew 24

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