did Christ retrun in AD 70? Matthew 24
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1
Guess I'm confused.
You say these verses...
Mark 9
And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."
Luke 9:27
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."
Matth 16:28
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
Don't refer to his second coming, but do refer to Pentecost.
So neither of us is asserting it has to do with his coming to restore creation, so I don't see why you think I'm saying that.
*shrugs*
You say these verses...
Mark 9
And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."
Luke 9:27
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."
Matth 16:28
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
Don't refer to his second coming, but do refer to Pentecost.
So neither of us is asserting it has to do with his coming to restore creation, so I don't see why you think I'm saying that.
*shrugs*
1
Starting at Revelation 20:7
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[c] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21
21 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John,[a] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”
6 And He said to me, “It is done![c] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,[d] and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[e] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
The New Jerusalem
9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me[f] and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.”[g] 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy[h] Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the city, its gates, and its wall. 16 The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal. 17 Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty-four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. 18 The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. 19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.
The Glory of the New Jerusalem
22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it,[j] for the glory[k] of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24 And the nations of those who are saved[l] shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.[m] 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it.[n] 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes[o] an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
Revelation 22
22 And he showed me a pure[a] river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[c] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21
21 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John,[a] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”
6 And He said to me, “It is done![c] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,[d] and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[e] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
The New Jerusalem
9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me[f] and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.”[g] 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy[h] Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the city, its gates, and its wall. 16 The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal. 17 Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty-four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. 18 The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. 19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.
The Glory of the New Jerusalem
22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it,[j] for the glory[k] of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24 And the nations of those who are saved[l] shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.[m] 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it.[n] 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes[o] an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
Revelation 22
22 And he showed me a pure[a] river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.
the mark is the number of a man, anyone
that is of the first Adam has the mark.
the mark is not a literal mark on the forehead
and hand. it's symbolic.
and it's not 1000 years, its "a thousand years reign"
a FIGURATIVE term, the term "thousand" are used
many times.
the thousand year reign started when Christ locked
up Satan from his authority in the "bottomless pit"
that is of the first Adam has the mark.
the mark is not a literal mark on the forehead
and hand. it's symbolic.
and it's not 1000 years, its "a thousand years reign"
a FIGURATIVE term, the term "thousand" are used
many times.
the thousand year reign started when Christ locked
up Satan from his authority in the "bottomless pit"
Matthew 12:28-29 (KJV)
Or else how can one (Christ) enter into a strong man's (Satan)
house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man
(Satan)? and then he will spoil his house.
Luke 10:18 (KJV)
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Revelation 12:9 (KJV)
And the great dragon (Satan) was cast out, that old serpent, called
the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast
out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
John 12:31 (KJV)
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world
be cast out. (Cast out of heaven)
1 John 4:4 (KJV)
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because
greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Colossians 2:15 (KJV)
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of
them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Hebrews 2:14 (KJV)
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,
he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death
he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil.
1 John 3:8 (KJV)
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the
beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he
might destroy the works of the devil.
Romans 16:20 (KJV)
And the God of peace shall bruise SATAN under your feet shortly
There he is shortly to be put under your feet.
now who was that spoken to?
is "shortly" now 1900 years after you have been killed?
Or else how can one (Christ) enter into a strong man's (Satan)
house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man
(Satan)? and then he will spoil his house.
Luke 10:18 (KJV)
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Revelation 12:9 (KJV)
And the great dragon (Satan) was cast out, that old serpent, called
the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast
out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
John 12:31 (KJV)
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world
be cast out. (Cast out of heaven)
1 John 4:4 (KJV)
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because
greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Colossians 2:15 (KJV)
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of
them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Hebrews 2:14 (KJV)
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,
he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death
he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil.
1 John 3:8 (KJV)
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the
beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he
might destroy the works of the devil.
Romans 16:20 (KJV)
And the God of peace shall bruise SATAN under your feet shortly
There he is shortly to be put under your feet.
now who was that spoken to?
is "shortly" now 1900 years after you have been killed?
we must be born of the Spirit to understand
the things of the kingdom.
it is our FLESH man that is contrary to the Spirit
and the FLESH that sees literal to its
understanding similar to what happened to
Nicodemus as he could not understand how
a man could be born twice because he was
thinking with his flesh man.
the things of the kingdom.
it is our FLESH man that is contrary to the Spirit
and the FLESH that sees literal to its
understanding similar to what happened to
Nicodemus as he could not understand how
a man could be born twice because he was
thinking with his flesh man.
1
Umm... the mark spoken of earlier in Revelation.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 13
16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.
18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[e] That number is 666.
What was it exactly? Hard to be sure.
I know some will try to say that since no one knows for sure what it was, we can't say that it happened.
I think such assertions are bunk.
We know it happened, cuz Jesus said it would happen near and soon to them.
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 13
16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.
18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[e] That number is 666.
What was it exactly? Hard to be sure.
I know some will try to say that since no one knows for sure what it was, we can't say that it happened.
I think such assertions are bunk.
We know it happened, cuz Jesus said it would happen near and soon to them.
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
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I see some discussing the 1000 years issue. This is something I posted in another thread, that explains why ALL of Revelation isn't fulfilled and why 1000 isn't literal.
The 1000 millenium marker in Revelation 20 was the indicator to them/us that everything up til THEN would be fulfilled. Obviously 1000 years isn't soon. So they/us would see that marker and realize that obviously stuff at that point wouldn't be soon.
Ok then you're going to say, "But still waters, it's been more than 1000 years."
To which I'd say, "Uh huh!"
Then I'd say, "It's not a literal 1000 years."
To which you'd say, "How is that so?"
I'd say, "Well in the greek it says 'a thousand' not 1000. There is a grammatical difference between the number 1000 and the term 'a thousand'. In Revelation 20:2,3,5,6, the greek word chilioi is used. That word is a plural of an uncertain affinity. Meaning it's not a definite number. It's a symbolic indefinite.
We see this often in the Bible where 'a 1000' is figurative for a lot of stuff or a big undefined number. Here are some examples.
Psalms 50:10, “For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.”
Psalms 84:10, “For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand.”
Psalms 105:8, “He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.”
There are more, but I think you get the point. It's not saying the cattle on only 1000 hills belong to God. A thousand is used to portray a long indefinite number or all. No one would say the 1001th day in the courts of God is unpleasant since it says only a thousand are pleasant."
link--->http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...nal-hal-lindsey-perspective-2.html#post723712
The 1000 millenium marker in Revelation 20 was the indicator to them/us that everything up til THEN would be fulfilled. Obviously 1000 years isn't soon. So they/us would see that marker and realize that obviously stuff at that point wouldn't be soon.
Ok then you're going to say, "But still waters, it's been more than 1000 years."
To which I'd say, "Uh huh!"
Then I'd say, "It's not a literal 1000 years."
To which you'd say, "How is that so?"
I'd say, "Well in the greek it says 'a thousand' not 1000. There is a grammatical difference between the number 1000 and the term 'a thousand'. In Revelation 20:2,3,5,6, the greek word chilioi is used. That word is a plural of an uncertain affinity. Meaning it's not a definite number. It's a symbolic indefinite.
We see this often in the Bible where 'a 1000' is figurative for a lot of stuff or a big undefined number. Here are some examples.
Psalms 50:10, “For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.”
Psalms 84:10, “For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand.”
Psalms 105:8, “He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.”
There are more, but I think you get the point. It's not saying the cattle on only 1000 hills belong to God. A thousand is used to portray a long indefinite number or all. No one would say the 1001th day in the courts of God is unpleasant since it says only a thousand are pleasant."
link--->http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...nal-hal-lindsey-perspective-2.html#post723712
A
yes and the three angels still fly....
Revelation 14
6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon[f] is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those[g] who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me,[h] “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”
people seem to forget to ask themselves WHY are people still dying in Christ after the hour of His judgement has come?
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