tithe

[tribesman]

Here are other questions about tithing (if you'll forgive me OP?)----is what we DO with our gift back to the Lord as important (more?) than how much it is?
Can "tithing" actually be done in the OT manner, without "priests" to whom to give it, and a Temple? (really just asking)

And should the "tithe" go to support someone's idea of the perfect church building? (just an example)
I admit to having become frustrated that we (Americans anyway) often do not think about things like this.
Often pastors of fundamentalist type churches are interested in building bigger congregations as a sort of....contest? I'm not sure.

But I do know I've seen churches that are so luxurious it seems we ought to be ashamed. Think of the money that might have gone to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, support widows and orphans, provide health care, support missionaries, etc, etc, etc.

As far as that goes, do we encourage ourselves to buy that nicer car, have the kitchen redone with granite countertops, compete with our neighbors for the nicest lawn/garden, own 20 pairs of jeans, blah, blah...you know-- lusting after the things of this world? (and believe me, I speak to myself here)

That's just my 2 cents. All we have is God's (including ourselves), and He has a right to ask for all of it. Do I listen to what He's asking for? (not often enough, for sure )
~ellie

My conviction is that if tithing was implemented on a wide scale then you would have far less poverty and unmet needs among believers. How much better if half of the givers gave more than 10%? To keep the commandments of God brings blessings.

 

[psychomom]

Agreed! But I maintain that where the tithe goes is equally important.

 

[Nautilus]

I give what I can, when I can

 

[Red33]

When God calls a believer to a local church body to be a joint participant in the work and fellowship of that local expression of Christ's body, then the believer's tithe, offerings and labour of love should be with that local expression. A tithe means 'a tenth part' and it pertains and applies to the increase that you have been given. An offering is anything that goes beyond the tithe. This is a touchy area to some, but it can be simple to understand.

When any government of the land in which you live demands by law or automatically deducts any form of tax from income or property received from any source, what is deducted can not be considered as part of your increase that the tenth part is taken from. The tax and/or deductions were not voluntary but mandated and that amount was not available to utilize to make investments, to purchase or able to be used for any purpose to benefit the earner or benefactor. However, when taxes are filed at the end of each year and their in an increase (or refund) after any additional fees or taxes are paid, then a tithe or tenth part can be made on that increase.

When Abraham gave a tithe (or tenth part) of the spoil to Melchezidek, there was no local government or authority getting first 'dibs' on the increase. When we give according to our increase, in my understanding of the increase, it should be upon the amount after any mandated deductions that comes under government regulation (state , federal, local or otherwise), but not any regulation that comes from a lien or some attachment that we are responsible because of negligence or some form of debt that must be paid back including penalties. If we had no taxes of any kind it would be simple and direct without the possibility to manipulate and massage for selfish interests.

We must be not be negligent and able to pay our bills and cost of living expenses to raise our families according to the quality of life that we have available through our means, without extravagance and nothing more. We have to determine what that is with God as a family or as an individual. Stewardship plays a vital role in what we do with God has given us and how we use any surplus that we have of God. This is part of our fellowship, communion and labour with God and with one another in a local body of believers.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

I'm reminded of this: a church I belonged to before I moved away had it's annual stewardship drive, where the church leaders asked for members to pledge how much they thought they would give in the next year, so that a budget could be made. One lay leader came up with a great slogan for the drive. "I upped my pledge, now up yours!" It was quickly decided we would NOT go with that one

 

[nikhil]

Tithe is important . As the offerings may not be properly used one has the right to know where it really goes .

 

[Laodicea]

Tithe belongs to God and not paying it is to rob God
Malachi 3:8
(8) Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

 

[Philos]

Why does God need tithes? It's all His isn't it? Does He need your help? Can He not provide food even by the ravens and crows if He wanted to?

I forget what church it is that did this, but there was another church that needed financial help to provide for the members and for others, so this church gave to the point of putting themselves into poverty so the other church could be provided for. Is that in the Law? No, there is no commands to do that. So why did they do that? Simple, because they loved as the Lord loved, and as it is written "Love one another as I have loved you." That's really the fulfillment of the Law and Prophets. Jesus gave everything He had to the point of death for His church, and so this church did the same out of the very same love.They were in poverty financially, but they were RICH spiritually, that I can assure you.

The Proverbs says not to withhold good if someone needs it and you are able to give it, not even wait until the next day if you have it beside you now. To do so is evil. Jesus Himself is making a judgment on how we treat each other, saying to treat our brethren is to treat Him.

Tithing is not applicable today, it is a command of the letter of the Law, anyone who seeks to practice it is in danger of destruction by what Paul wrote. However, there is a giving by love of the heart that the Lord is greatly pleased with. You may say you tithe to your local church, to your pastor, whatever, but what about your brother in that church who is struggling because he does not have a job? So many times I have heard testimonies of brethren seeking desperate help from their church, and the usual response is "There is no way we can help" which is essentially them saying it won't benefit them in doing so, and these are churches that accept tithes. Where is the love in that?

Don't focus on giving a percentage by the law hoping to win God's blessing, instead give to your brothers who actually need it, not just financially but whatever you have, even your self.

 

[Laodicea]

Matthew 23:23
(23) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Jesus here is not telling people do not pay tithe. The payed tithe but, did not have judgement mercy and faith. Jesus is saying pay tithe and do not forget those things.

 

[Hurricane1]

Some say it is not compulsory but the Lord commands us to tithe. Malachi 3:8,10: verse 8"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Not tithing is defrauding God like the incident in the early church with Ananias and Sapphira. Verse 10 "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it" . Here we see that tithing is for the development of the house of God (the church).

Tithing is giving unto God one tenth of your income and it is the gateway into the immutable blessings of God. I can testify that God has blessed me in so many ways just by heeding to His words. Give and it shall be given unto you...

If you do your research, you will find that God was talking to the priests in that scripture, not the general congregation. Did you know that Jesus nor His earthly father never ever paid a tithe? That's because it was strictly for land owners who made a living from the land. The tithe was to be brought to the Temple in Jerusalem. It was to be a tenth of all the land produced for them. It was to be used for feeding the needy and the priests. If you could not travel with the produce, you were to sell it and bring the money you received to the Temple. If you could not make it to the Temple, it was to be used for a great feast for you and your family before the Lord God. It had nothing to do with building little kingdoms like the pastors of today are trying to do. Think of it, what a scam, get everyone to pay a tenth of everything they make before taxes. Then they use this up paying for buildings that the local church isn't supposed to have, pay salaries to people who shouldn't be collecting them and to compete for members with other, so called, church's down the street. All this while the poor go hungry, church members are loosing their homes and the church makes no real difference in the world at all.

If you were to look at the New Covenant format, giving was completelhy voluntary, secret and used to help the people with needs in the church. It was never intended for kingdom building. The Lords Kingdom is not of this world.

I am not condemning you, I was there once myself, until I did my research. I am not saying we shouldn't give... not at all. We should be listening for the Lord to lead us to who we give our money to, and then it should be to the point that He leads us... not just ten percent.

 

[Red33]

If you do your research, you will find that God was talking to the priests in that scripture, not the general congregation. Did you know that Jesus nor His earthly father never ever paid a tithe? That's because it was strictly for land owners who made a living from the land. The tithe was to be brought to the Temple in Jerusalem. It was to be a tenth of all the land produced for them. It was to be used for feeding the needy and the priests. If you could not travel with the produce, you were to sell it and bring the money you received to the Temple. If you could not make it to the Temple, it was to be used for a great feast for you and your family before the Lord God. It had nothing to do with building little kingdoms like the pastors of today are trying to do. Think of it, what a scam, get everyone to pay a tenth of everything they make before taxes. Then they use this up paying for buildings that the local church isn't supposed to have, pay salaries to people who shouldn't be collecting them and to compete for members with other, so called, church's down the street. All this while the poor go hungry, church members are loosing their homes and the church makes no real difference in the world at all.

If you were to look at the New Covenant format, giving was completelhy voluntary, secret and used to help the people with needs in the church. It was never intended for kingdom building. The Lords Kingdom is not of this world.

I am not condemning you, I was there once myself, until I did my research. I am not saying we shouldn't give... not at all. We should be listening for the Lord to lead us to who we give our money to, and then it should be to the point that He leads us... not just ten percent.

Looks like you did some bad research and conferred with some bad resources. Starfield is right and you are the one that was given to change. The NT tithe and offerings is not for the purpose of building any kingdom but to promote the propagation of the gospel and edify the advancement and increase of the church and body of Christ locally and abroad. Starfield lives according to the faith that we have been given in relationship to giving of tithes and offering in the dispensation of grace and the church.

If you don't like the local church practice in distribution of their tithes and offerings, either conform to their practice or go and find another local assembly and keep your mouth from sinning against them. Were you and others come up with this idea that the NT church did not practice tithes and offerings is very perplexing and in some cases dishonest. However, people will use any justification for not honoring God with the substance of their tithe and offerings.

 

[Hurricane1]

Looks like you did some bad research and conferred with some bad resources. Starfield is right and you are the one that was given to change. The NT tithe and offerings is not for the purpose of building any kingdom but to promote the propagation of the gospel and edify the advancement and increase of the church and body of Christ locally and abroad. Starfield lives according to the faith that we have been given in relationship to giving of tithes and offering in the dispensation of grace and the church.

If you don't like the local church practice in distribution of their tithes and offerings, either conform to their practice or go and find another local assembly and keep your mouth from sinning against them. Were you and others come up with this idea that the NT church did not practice tithes and offerings is very perplexing and in some cases dishonest. However, people will use any justification for not honoring God with the substance of their tithe and offerings.

The scriptures say that it takes 3 references to prove a point. I am going to ask you for just one. Show me one scripture in the New Covenant that demands a tithe. Remember, the NT started at the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus lived and taught under the OT. And even He refered to giving all you have, not the tithe when He was talking about the widow who gave everything. He doesn't want a tithe and we are not under the law. He wants our hearts and for us to be led by the Spirit.

 

[Red33]

The scriptures say that it takes 3 references to prove a point. I am going to ask you for just one. Show me one scripture in the New Covenant that demands a tithe. Remember, the NT started at the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus lived and taught under the OT. And even He refered to giving all you have, not the tithe when He was talking about the widow who gave everything. He doesn't want a tithe and we are not under the law. He wants our hearts and for us to be led by the Spirit.

Tithing (a tenth part) was already in practice before the law and during the time of the law. There is nothing to suggest that is was not to be practiced in the NT economy. The burden is on you to show that tithing was done away with and not required under the dispensation of grace in the NT church. If you cannot provide a basis for it being disannulled then you have no basis for subjugating others to your unsubstantiated conclusions about tithes and offerings. What say you?

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

Remember, the NT started at the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I like most of what you said, but in this sentence, I am confused.

The New Testament begins with the Gospels, and all of them except for Mark begin with the birth of Jesus Christ. (John's incarnation narrative is more poetic, while Matthew and Luke both go with historical narratives.) Mark starts with Jesus' ministry. The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ is towards the end of all the Gospels, and the taking-off point for the rest of the New Testament, and for the Christian Church. But it is not the start of the New Testament. So I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

He doesn't want a tithe and we are not under the law. He wants our hearts and for us to be led by the Spirit.

I agree - the tithe is not necessary. It is, however, a good guide. If you can barely afford to feed your family on what you make, obviously God would rather you feed your family than give to charity. And I think God expects more from those who make more. If you're a family of 3 or 4 making more than six figures, unless you live in New York City, there's no reason you can't donate 15-20% of your income or more. But for most people ("the 99%," as they say) 10% is a good round number to aim for.

This is not to say that if you don't give 10% when you can, or 20% if you're really wealthy, God will punish you. We are not under the law. You give because it is the right thing to do, because your heart tells you to do it. If your heart is not telling you to give, then you're not in a place where it makes sense, for you, to give. It's not a judgment against you (the proverbial you, that is).

FWIW

 

[Hurricane1]

Tithing (a tenth part) was already in practice before the law and during the time of the law. There is nothing to suggest that is was not to be practiced in the NT economy. The burden is on you to show that tithing was done away with and not required under the dispensation of grace in the NT church. If you cannot provide a basis for it being disannulled then you have no basis for subjugating others to your unsubstantiated conclusions about tithes and offerings. What say you?

Nice try, does that mean we should all have to get circumcised as well? That was before the law as well, but Paul was very clear that circumcision is no longer required because we are not under the law. therefore, your argument holds no water. I would love to see that scriptural reference from the NC.

 

[Hurricane1]

I like most of what you said, but in this sentence, I am confused.

The New Testament begins with the Gospels, and all of them except for Mark begin with the birth of Jesus Christ. (John's incarnation narrative is more poetic, while Matthew and Luke both go with historical narratives.) Mark starts with Jesus' ministry. The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ is towards the end of all the Gospels, and the taking-off point for the rest of the New Testament, and for the Christian Church. But it is not the start of the New Testament. So I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.


I agree - the tithe is not necessary. It is, however, a good guide. If you can barely afford to feed your family on what you make, obviously God would rather you feed your family than give to charity. And I think God expects more from those who make more. If you're a family of 3 or 4 making more than six figures, unless you live in New York City, there's no reason you can't donate 15-20% of your income or more. But for most people ("the 99%," as they say) 10% is a good round number to aim for.

This is not to say that if you don't give 10% when you can, or 20% if you're really wealthy, God will punish you. We are not under the law. You give because it is the right thing to do, because your heart tells you to do it. If your heart is not telling you to give, then you're not in a place where it makes sense, for you, to give. It's not a judgment against you (the proverbial you, that is).

FWIW

Sorry, I meant the New Covenant, not the NT.

Yes, if you are not hearing what the Spirit is telling you, 10% can be a good guide, also if that's what you believe the Spirit IS saying. B ut to demand that everybody submit to the tithe based on the OC and the law is just wrong. We had a family in the congregation I was attending that was loosing their home and the pastors told them they needed to tithe to save it. That is wrong, the true Church would have stepped in to save their home.

 

[Red33]

Nice try, does that mean we should all have to get circumcised as well? That was before the law as well, but Paul was very clear that circumcision is no longer required because we are not under the law. therefore, your argument holds no water. I would love to see that scriptural reference from the NC.

There was clarity concerning outward circumcision because of its connection to salvation and the righteousness of the law, but what about clarity of tithes and offerings being done away, can you provide it in the NT economy? Give it your best shot. Tithes and offerings are no longer under the law but under grace.

 

[Hurricane1]

There was clarity concerning outward circumcision because of its connection to salvation and the righteousness of the law, but what about clarity of tithes and offerings being done away, can you provide it in the NT economy? Give it your best shot. Tithes and offerings are no longer under the law but under grace.

Very simply... even though the tithe was before the law, it was also included in the law. The law has been done away with, thus tithing has also been done away with. Giving is now a matter of the heart. We are to give until it hurts to those that need help among us, just as the NC examples show us.... including when the poor woman gave all that she has.

 

[Red33]

Very simply... even though the tithe was before the law, it was also included in the law. The law has been done away with, thus tithing has also been done away with. Giving is now a matter of the heart. We are to give until it hurts to those that need help among us, just as the NC examples show us.... including when the poor woman gave all that she has.

The tithe was instituted by Abraham to Melchezidek before the law just as the promise was made to Abraham. If the law or the doing away of the law could not void or make the promise of none effect, then it should have no effect upon the tithe that was offered by Abraham to Melchezidek who Christ was made a priest after (Read Heb 7). This is why the burden is on you, but you refuse to make full proof of your conviction and you mislead people concerning tithes and offerings.

You want to give of your own increase in the manner that you decide and not in the manner that we have in the NT economy that involves the church and Christ as its head (Eph 5:23, Col 1:18). The widow's two mites that was given was an example to expose and reveal legalism in the heart of those that took pride in giving their tithe and offering out of their abundance according to the righteousness of the law under Moses and not by faith unto the Lord, out of their need as the widow did, trusting in the person and power of our Lord Jesus Christ and never expecting anything in return.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The tithe was instituted by Abraham to Melchezidek before the law just as the promise was made to Abraham. If the law or the doing away of the law could not void or make the promise of none effect, then it should have no effect upon the tithe that was offered by Abraham to Melchezidek who Christ was made a priest after (Read Heb 7). This is why the burden is on you, but you refuse to make full proof of your conviction and you mislead people concerning tithes and offerings.

You want to give of your own increase in the manner that you decide and not in the manner that we have in the NT economy that involves the church and Christ as its head (Eph 5:23, Col 1:18). The widow's two mites that was given was an example to expose and reveal legalism in the heart of those that took pride in giving their tithe and offering out of their abundance according to the righteousness of the law under Moses and not by faith unto the Lord, out of their need as the widow did, trusting in the person and power of our Lord Jesus Christ and never expecting anything in return.

1. Abraham did not institite the tithe, He just did it. No where are we told he was commanded to or anything else.

2. The tithe was an income tax to the jewish nation, period. And if we are to biblically tithe, according to the law. we are to give ten percent of ALL we own. not just money. yet even people who demand we must tither would not do this, so they are hypocrites.