tithe

[Laodicea]

Study Hebrews 7. Pay particular to verses 5,12,18. Those verses tell us that the tithe was disannulled.

SIX STEPS TO UNDERSTANDING WHEN AND HOW THE TITHE ENDED

STEP 1

Hebrews 7:5 (KJV)
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Hebrews 7:5 confirms that Levi received tithes according to the law under the Levitical priesthood.

STEP 2

Hebrews 7:12 (KJV)
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 7:12 tells us changing the priesthood will also change the law.

STEP 3

Hebrews 7:18 (KJV)
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

Hebrews 7:18 verifies that Numbers 18, which established the Levitical priesthood, including the command to tithe was disannulled (canceled).
STEP 4

Ephesians 2:15 (KJV)
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Colossians 2:14 (KJV)
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14 confirm that the Old Testament laws were abolished; nailed to the cross.

STEP 5

Galatians 4:5 (KJV)
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Galatians 4:5 tells us that Jesus redeemed those who were under the law. Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14 above tell us how Jesus redeemed those under the law – by nailing the laws to the cross.

STEP 6

Galatians 3:10 (KJV)
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians 3:10 is telling us those who reject what Jesus did on the cross and continue to put themselves under the law are cursed by the law. That verse also tells us those who put themselves under even one of the laws, are putting themselves under all of the laws written in the book.

Old Testament - God defined His tithe as crops and animals in herds and flocks. Nothing else. ONLY assets that came from God's hand, not man's income. Leviticus 27:30-34. ONLY Israelite farmers tithed. Jesus did not tithe. Paul did not tithe. Peter did not tithe. Wage earners did not tithe.

New Testament - The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was equal percentage (a tenth). The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of equal percentage. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving ten percent.

OLD TESTAMENT - THE FIRST OF THE FRUITS SHOULD GO TO GOD
Proverbs 3:9 (KJV) “Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:”

NEW TESTAMENT - THE WORKER SHOULD BE FIRST TO RECEIVE A SHARE OF THE CROPS
2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) “The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.”

When was the last time you heard a pastor say that YOU should spend the first part of your income on yourself and your family?

1 Timothy 5:8 (KJV) “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”

The New Testament makes it clear that we are to use the FIRST of our income to take care of ourselves and our family. We are talking about needs, here, not just anything we want. Then we should give generously from what is left.

Abraham paid tithe before the Levitical priesthood was instituted. The priesthood changed, the Levitical priesthood is no longer and Christ is not a priest after the Levitical priesthood but, after the order of Melchizedek who was both priest and king. So we still have a high priest after the order of Melchizedek so the tithe has not been stopped.

 

[garyarnold]

Abraham paid tithe before the Levitical priesthood was instituted. The priesthood changed, the Levitical priesthood is no longer and Christ is not a priest after the Levitical priesthood but, after the order of Melchizedek who was both priest and king. So we still have a high priest after the order of Melchizedek so the tithe has not been stopped.

There are several problems with your argument.

Let’s look closely at Abram’s tithe. First, the goods that Abram gave the tenth from didn’t even belong to Abram:

Genesis 14:21 (KJV) - And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.

Notice in verse 21 the king of Sodom didn’t ask Abram if he would give back to him the people, but rather said GIVE ME the people and keep the goods for yourself. The way that is worded indicates that the king of Sodom was claiming that the people and the goods belonged to him, but he offered the goods to Abram.

It would normally have been the custom that the victor owns the spoils, but normally the spoils would have belonged to the enemy. In this case, Abram was RECOVERING goods belonging to the King of Sodom.

NOTE: The king of Sodom had an original right both to the persons and to the goods, and it would bear a debate whether Abram’s acquired right by rescue would supersede his title and extinguish it; but, to prevent all quarrels, the king of Sodom makes this fair proposal (v. 21).
--Should the Church Teach Tithing by Dr. Russell Earl Kelly, pages 24-25

Genesis 14:22-24 (KJV)
22And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,
23That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:
24Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.

Notice in verses 23 and 24 Abram also acknowledges that the goods belonged to the king of Sodom. But the king of Sodam offered that Abram could keep the goods for himself. Abram declined the offer. He didn’t want man to take credit for his wealth. By not accepting any of the goods for himself, Abram was putting all his faith in God to provide for him rather than man.

Therefore, it is clear that both the king of Sodom and Abram acknowledged that the spoils of war did NOT belong to Abram, yet he gave a tenth of the spoils to King Melchizedek. This would seem that Abram did something wrong, if not even illegal, but Biblical historians agree that it was custom in Abram's day to give the king a tenth of the war spoils. Had Abram not given the tenth, he would have gone against custom.

Conclusion: Abram did NOT give a tenth of his income, or his wealth. Abram gave a tenth of the spoils of war that didn’t belong to him and declined to keep the goods offered to him. That is NOT an example of tithing for Christians to follow today. By declining to keep any of the goods for himself, Abram showed his faith that God would provide. That is the example of faith that Christians should be following. Furthermore, the law did NOT require a tenth of war spoils to be given, so to say that tithing was before the law and then in the law is not true. What Abram did was NOT even codified into the later law.

Hebrews 7:7 (KJV) “And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.”

Abram, the lesser, was blessed by the King-Priest Melchisedek, the better.

Abram gave the tenth to the better.

1 Peter 2:5 (KJV) “Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.”

1 Peter 2:9 (KJV) “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:”

1 - According to the scriptures, priests do not tithe.
2 - As priests, all born-again believers are equal. There is no better or lesser among us. God has not designated any born-again believers to collect His tithe.
3 - To try and “tithe” today is denying that you are a part of a Royal Priesthood.

Isn't it odd that even though Abram gave a tenth directly to Melchizedek, the king/priest, that some Christians think they can give directly to God by giving it to their pastor?

I find it quite offensive that pastors have appointed themselves to be the receiver of what belongs to God. After all, the pastor says the tithe belongs to God. Then he appoints himself to receive the tithe!!!

God never gave any pastor or church permission to receive his tithe. God commanded His tithe be taken to the Levites, FOREVER, in Numbers 18.

Since the tithe belongs to God, if a pastor accepts it isn't he stealing it from God?

 

[WolfInOxHide]

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

 

[Hurricane1]

Abraham paid tithe before the Levitical priesthood was instituted. The priesthood changed, the Levitical priesthood is no longer and Christ is not a priest after the Levitical priesthood but, after the order of Melchizedek who was both priest and king. So we still have a high priest after the order of Melchizedek so the tithe has not been stopped.

What did Abraham pay a tithe on???? He pain only on the spoils of war. He NEVER paid on any of his personal increase or belongings. He gave the other 90% to the King of Sodom. So, by your logic, we should either be going to war to take the posessions of others to tithe with, or we should be giving 10% to God and the other 90% to the government. It is rediculous to say we should give 10% based on that when Abraham gave the other 90% to the King and what Abraham tithed on wasn't even his to begin with. Abraham paid the tithe on the spoils of war because God had favor on him in battle. After that, it was part of the law and it was only paid on the produce of the land whether it was crops or herds. Not once was the tithe ever based on monetary income. That is an nvention of the organized religions to extract money from their congregations in order to build their private little kingdoms to compete with the congregation down the street.

 

[Hurricane1]

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

ABSOLUTELY correct!!!! The tithe actually ets in the way of this. One, it makes people give ONLY 10% because they think think that's what God wants. Two, peoples ability to give to those in need is drastically reduced when the pastor demands 10% to build his little kingdom instead of using those resources to help those in need. It's a sham, it's all about getting their share of the money. If the Church would format itself according the original plan, the world could be truely changed and the body of Christ would function as one unit instead of hundreds os factions competing with eachother.

 

[Laodicea]

Genesis 28:22 Jacob also paid tithe

 

[Hurricane1]

Genesis 28:22 Jacob also paid tithe

So he made his own pact with God. How does that mean that we have to tithe under an entirely different covenant with the Lord? We are not under any law from the Old Covenant. You guys are arguing this as lawyers would. I will not put myself under ANY law, ordinance or precedent in the Old Covenant. When you do this, you are responsible for the whole law! Even if it was a precedent of the law, it was still included in the law and therefore suffers the same end as the law itself. The law is no longer our master.Giving is now a heart issue, not a legal issue. I will give when the Lord tells me to give and how much He tells me to give... even if it's my entire paycheck.

 

[Laodicea]

When you read about Jacob there is no mention he paid tithe as a legal requirement but, he gave his life to God and out of love for God he paid tithe.

 

[Hurricane1]

When you read about Jacob there is no mention he paid tithe as a legal requirement but, he gave his life to God and out of love for God he paid tithe.

Okay, that still doesn't make it right for the new covenant. Please explain why you think that because one guy made his own pact with God during the old covenant that that means Christians today have to pat a tenth of everything they make at the demands of men who use it for their own gain. The only giving I see in the New Covenant is by free will and those that have too much give to those that don't have enough. I see todays demand for the tithe actually get in the way of those New Covenant examples. In the congregation I used to be on staff in, the pastors demanded tithes from people who were already struggling to feed their children. Those same pastors had a beautiful house, two cars, a motor cycle a pool, etc... The tithe went to their pay first, then the utilities, then the mortgage, then the programs and IF there was anything left over, they helped someone with a bag a groceries. That isn't the New Covenant format brother, that's robbery.

 

[garyarnold]

When you read about Jacob there is no mention he paid tithe as a legal requirement but, he gave his life to God and out of love for God he paid tithe.

Show me scripture where Jacob ever, if his life, gave or paid a tithe. You won't find it. Jacob made a conditional vow to give God a tenth of everything God gave him IN THE FUTURE, but ONLY IF God would agree to Jacob's terms. There is NO scripture showing that Jacob kept his vow.

 

[garyarnold]

ONE OF THE WORST CRIMES OF ALL TIME:
1 - It is done by pastors who are trusted to be honest and right, and done in the name of Jesus.
2 - It is legal only because the government (in the US) can't interfere with religious beliefs, and the pastor only need claim he is teaching his beliefs.
3 - It has spread world-wide and this crime has more victims than any other that I know of.
4 - Those who have been scammed almost always take sides with the scammer.
5 - It's a crime where the victim thinks he/she is the beneficiary, not the victim.
6 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that the victim falls for the same scam every week, week after week, month after month, year after year, and never even questions the scammer.
7 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that most church goers will yell AMEN!
8 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that most church goers believe their pastor is the best pastor around. Their pastor really knows the truth. They trust and believe everything he says.
9 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that the victims convince others to join in and be a victim like they are, all the time thinking they are the beneficiary.
10 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that the victim thinks they are robbing God if they don't comply with the scam.
11 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed it is very difficult to convince the victim that they have been a victim.

The crime? Pastors teaching that God requires Christians to tithe to the church. With tithing, the victim is so ignorant of the truth, they have no clue they've been a victim. And if and when the tithing scam victims realize they are victims, there is really nothing they can do about it. The scammer keeps the money.

 

[Laodicea]

Show me scripture where Jacob ever, if his life, gave or paid a tithe. You won't find it. Jacob made a conditional vow to give God a tenth of everything God gave him IN THE FUTURE, but ONLY IF God would agree to Jacob's terms. There is NO scripture showing that Jacob kept his vow.

There is no mention Jacob did not honour his vow. Where did Jacob and Abraham get the idea about tithe?

 

[Laodicea]

Anyone who robs God or misuses God's funds knowing right from wrong will answer to God.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

3 - It has spread world-wide and this crime has more victims than any other that I know of.

I have never met a pastor, priest, minister, or any other church leader who teaches that a tithe is required, or that the tithe must go to the church. And being a church leader myself, that's a pretty big sample size.

I've heard some say that a tithe is a good target, and one should aim for that if they are not already giving that or above, some adding that 100% is ideal, but impractical. I've heard some say that an option with the tithe is to give it to the church, and let the church decide where to put it, but I have NEVER heard anyone say that is required. In fact, most will say vehemently that it should NOT all go to the church, but should be given to as many different charities as the giver feels he or she can give to.

All the things you list ... if there is anyone out there doing that, yes, that would be horrible, perhaps legal in the US due to the separation clause, but certainly immoral. You seem to think it's rampant, and I'm sorry, but if it were as common as you claim, I think I would have seen at least one example of it in my almost half-century on this planet.

Then again, this could be related to the other thread we're discussing, denominations. Some posters were a bit condescending about how much control the national headquarters of some denominations have over who could or could not be a pastor. And for all the snide remarks about us mainliners being "dead in the spirit," there's at least one benefit: the hoops our potential clergy have to jump through just about guarantees that any scam artist like you describe would be sniffed out and barred from serving long before they had a chance to take advantage of anyone. I'm not saying we're perfect ... but look at the score:

Number of scam artist clergy garyarnold has seen in non-denominational churches -- how many dozens? hundreds?
Number of scam artist clergy Diva has seen in denominational protestant churches -- zero.

Or are you just exaggerating?

 

[Hurricane1]

Anyone who robs God or misuses God's funds knowing right from wrong will answer to God.

I guess it comes down to this. I believe we have argued our point effectively. The truth is right there in front of you. If you want to pay the tithe, go ahead and pay it. I will pray that your eyes are opened to the danger of puting yourself under the law. May God bless you brother.

 

[garyarnold]

There is no mention Jacob did not honour his vow. Where did Jacob and Abraham get the idea about tithe?

According to Biblical historians, tithing was either custom or law of the law during the days of Abraham. Pagan Kings required a tithe. Remember, tithe means a tenth or tenth part.

The number ten symbolizes a whole item, and also completion.

From Christian Resources Today, “Ten : 10 - Biblical Meaning of Number: deals with completeness that happens in a divine order or completed during a course of time. There's nothing that is left wanting within the complete cycle the number ten has just completed.”

That would be the reason for a tenth and not 2 tenths, etc. One tenth would symbolize completeness; a complete transaction.

I count just over 300 occurrences of the words ten or tenth in the KJV of the Holy Bible. 95% occur before Calvary. The number 10 has much significance in the Old Testament but virtually no significance in the New Testament. In fact, some of the few times those words appear after Calvary it is in reference to the Old Covenant.

At Calvary, the Old Covenant came to its completion. There is nothing after Calvary to suggest that the number ten represents completion.

We can only go by what is IN the scriptures, not what is not in the scriptures. There is no scripture showing us that Jacob ever gave the tenth he vowed to give. I make no assumption here.

 

[garyarnold]

Or are you just exaggerating?

EVERY single church I have attended for any length of time has taught that tithing is required by God, and that if you don't tithe, you are robbing God. I have attended services at many different denominational churches as well as non-denonimational.

Just turn your TV to TBN and see one pastor after another teaching that tithing is required.

Some denominations teach that tithing is required by God, including the Mormons and the SDA Church. Other denominations is seems to be some pastors teach tithing and some don't. Just do a search of YouTube videos where tithing is being taught as a requirement of God.

There's no exaggerating on my part. My ministry deals with this problem, and I deal with this topic 7 days a week.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

EVERY single church I have attended for any length of time has taught that tithing is required by God, and that if you don't tithe, you are robbing God. I have attended services at many different denominational churches as well as non-denonimational.

Wow.

If ANY of those churches were Lutheran, Episcopalian, Methodist, or Disciples of Christ, please tell me the name and city of the church, and about when you visited. Those pastors need to be defrocked by their respective church leaders (bishops in most of the cases) immediately. This is absolutely against church teaching.

Just turn your TV to TBN and see one pastor after another teaching that tithing is required.

Well, I don't doubt that. The few times I've zipped past TBN I've been pretty disgusted by the message. Prosperity gospel and theology of glory, none of it Biblical. Not particularly interested in exposing myself to any more of that than I already have. I'm not sure who watches that station, because everyone I know feels the same way as you and I do about them. But obviously, there are people who do watch.

Some denominations teach that tithing is required by God, including the Mormons and the SDA Church.

I have never attended a Mormon or an SDA church, so this could be true.

Just do a search of YouTube videos where tithing is being taught as a requirement of God.

You know what? I just did a search on YouTube for "tithing requirement," and the first ten that showed up all said that tithing is NOT a requirement of God. So hmmm ... gonna have to call you on that one. Not that you're wrong, but "just do a search of YouTube" does not reveal the results you indicate.

My ministry deals with this problem, and I deal with this topic 7 days a week.

Like I said ... names of churches, city, date. In the denominations I listed above this is a SERIOUS offense. If it's as common as you say, I want to clean up at least the ones I can. (I can't do anything about what Mormons or SDAs do, sorry. But I do have some pull in mainline protestant denominations.)

 

[WolfInOxHide]

Again, it's very simple.
If you are a member of the assembly, then you believe this:

"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that any of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common."

 

[garyarnold]

Wow.

If ANY of those churches were Lutheran, Episcopalian, Methodist, or Disciples of Christ, please tell me the name and city of the church, and about when you visited.

Just do a search on YouTube for "tithing."

Churches I have attended include: Presbyterian, Baptist, Full Gospel Baptist, SDA, Apostolic, Non-Denomination, and a couple others. All of them taught tithing is a requirement of God.