Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[JaumeJ]

We are all grafted into the vine through mercy and grace, but I am speaking about the church and body made of Jew and Gentile that Christ prepared for us when He ascended to the Father and gave gifts according to (Eph 4:8-16). You are a believer of the NT church and body under grace and not the letter of the law. The body is a living organism that God has placed every believer within this dispensation and time of the Gentiles. As a believer in Christ (Yeshua) we have been saved and made a member of that body being placed in Christ. We are to function as one member of one body made up of many members.

Every believer has a measure of Christ and His faith in them that we need to receive from one another as a supply of the Spirit so that the body can be edified in the love and grace of God. There is dependency involved in that supply. The supply that I have from God, as a member of His body, can not be supplied by another and it is the same for each member. Together when we are giving of our supply, we are knit together and function together as one body and not as all these independent members running around doing service to God and keeping His commandments. We keep the commandments as a body and edify one another as a body and we grow up together into our head (Christ) together as a body. This is what God's redeemed church is doing as a body, a living organism revealing an invisible God as the living God through the life of the body of Christ.

You make mention of the "mystery of the church." What mystery? It is made up terms like this that cause many to stray.
The only "living organism" of which I know is the Body of Christ, Yeshua. He is the Head, and all believers make up the rest of the Body. The Body cannot think without a Head. We should all work in conjunction for the good of the Body and the glory of the Head, Yeshua. There is NO mystery. His Body members are everywhere, and they have assumed different labels until they are called to recognize once and for all they belong first to the Head and then to each other. No mystery, nothing there to be revealed.
When simple points are mystified and changed to unrecognizable dogma for the ignorant to be deceived, we are not recognizing the Head, Yeshua. My teaching always comes from Yeshua, as does the teaching of every individual who has called upon Him in Spirit and Truth. Should Yeshua, Jesus, have given Paul anything at all to teach, this too is from Yeshua. Paul always gave glory to Yeshua for what he did and his ministry.
Now, you may belong to Paul, but he belongs to Yeshua, Jesus, amen.

 

[loveme1]

We are all grafted into the vine through mercy and grace, but I am speaking about the church and body made of Jew and Gentile that Christ prepared for us when He ascended to the Father and gave gifts according to (Eph 4:8-16). You are a believer of the NT church and body under grace and not the letter of the law. The body is a living organism that God has placed every believer within this dispensation and time of the Gentiles. As a believer in Christ (Yeshua) we have been saved and made a member of that body being placed in Christ. We are to function as one member of one body made up of many members.

Every believer has a measure of Christ and His faith in them that we need to receive from one another as a supply of the Spirit so that the body can be edified in the love and grace of God. There is dependency involved in that supply. The supply that I have from God, as a member of His body, can not be supplied by another and it is the same for each member. Together when we are giving of our supply, we are knit together and function together as one body and not as all these independent members running around doing service to God and keeping His commandments. We keep the commandments as a body and edify one another as a body and we grow up together into our head (Christ) together as a body. This is what God's redeemed church is doing as a body, a living organism revealing an invisible God as the living God through the life of the body of Christ.

Who taught you this?

 

[loveme1]

Ephesians 4 text is certainly used in what you write..

But who taught this part?

Together when we are giving of our supply, we are knit together and function together as one body and not as all these independent members running around doing service to God and keeping His commandments. We keep the commandments as a body and edify one another as a body and we grow up together into our head (Christ) together as a body.

 

[Red33]

Red, i Truly believe Paul's teaching is not foreign to Jaume or myself, it is you that is without understanding.

It is you that ignores scripture that corrects your error....

Continue to believe, but do not be guilty of teaching others the error of your ways.


Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

There's no mistake that you have shone your true colors, that's for sure, and with no uncertain terms. I don't mind it, in fact I think it's cute. Have I ever taught or mentioned anything that has lead you into any form of sin or not to desire mercy or grace or the things of God? Have I ever discredited our Lord, His blood or the work of the cross on behalf of the believer and all men? Have I ever drove you away from preaching the gospel to every creature or to break any of the commandments that we have under the new covenant? Have I ever discouraged you from going after the promises of God or not to have faith toward God? Have I ever stopped you from loving others or to lay your life down for the brethren? Have I said anything that would have stopped you from praying or going to the throne of God to find grace to help you in the time of need? Is being honest concerning what I discern about others some form or evil or sin in my life that I need to repent of? Is having conviction according to grace and truth and through the Spirit going to corrupt others away from serving our Lord Jesus Christ?

 

[JaumeJ]

There's no mistake that you have shone your true colors, that's for sure, and with no uncertain terms. I don't mind it, in fact I think it's cute. Have I ever taught or mentioned anything that has lead you into any form of sin or not to desire mercy or grace or the things of God? Have I ever discredited our Lord, His blood or the work of the cross on behalf of the believer and all men? Have I ever drove you away from preaching the gospel to every creature or to break any of the commandments that we have under the new covenant? Have I ever discouraged you from going after the promises of God or not to have faith toward God? Have I ever stopped you from loving others or to lay your life down for the brethren? Have I said anything that would have stopped you from praying or going to the throne of God to find grace to help you in the time of need? Is being honest concerning what I discern about others some form or evil or sin in my life that I need to repent of? Is having conviction according to grace and truth and through the Spirit going to corrupt others away from serving our Lord Jesus Christ?

When anyone teaches that the holy and precious Grace given us by the shed Blood of our Savior is an excuse to disobey Him in totally disregarding the commandments He teaches us to keep, it is leading others to sin and abomination. It is a corrupt approach to the meaning of the free gift of Grace. Obey Yeshua, He is God, amen.

 

[loveme1]

There's no mistake that you have shone your true colors, that's for sure, and with no uncertain terms. I don't mind it, in fact I think it's cute. Have I ever taught or mentioned anything that has lead you into any form of sin or not to desire mercy or grace or the things of God? Have I ever discredited our Lord, His blood or the work of the cross on behalf of the believer and all men? Have I ever drove you away from preaching the gospel to every creature or to break any of the commandments that we have under the new covenant? Have I ever discouraged you from going after the promises of God or not to have faith toward God? Have I ever stopped you from loving others or to lay your life down for the brethren? Have I said anything that would have stopped you from praying or going to the throne of God to find grace to help you in the time of need? Is being honest concerning what I discern about others some form or evil or sin in my life that I need to repent of? Is having conviction according to grace and truth and through the Spirit going to corrupt others away from serving our Lord Jesus Christ?

If ever i had reason to answer yes to any of the above regarding you Red, I want you to know I forgave you.

You can think it is cute and you can go off topic...

It was never about my colors, it was always about the Truth of Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

From months of conversation with you, I based that comment.

You know not the times you have been in my thoughts and asked for wisdom to try and show you that

Keeping the 10 Commandments of Yahvah God takes nothing away from Yahshua the Messiah's Sacrifice, it gives it Glory each time some one is born again into the New Covenant of Yahvah God.

The Bible tells us that the saints are:

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Peace and Blessings in the name of Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

 

[Shyness]

Thw way I was taught is in order to be forgiven of sins, you must be regretfully sorry for all sins and give restitution to those you wronged. God only forgives those who repent.

 

[Red33]

If ever i had reason to answer yes to any of the above regarding you Red, I want you to know I forgave you.

You can think it is cute and you can go off topic...

It was never about my colors, it was always about the Truth of Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

From months of conversation with you, I based that comment.

You know not the times you have been in my thoughts and asked for wisdom to try and show you that

Keeping the 10 Commandments of Yahvah God takes nothing away from Yahshua the Messiah's Sacrifice, it gives it Glory each time some one is born again into the New Covenant of Yahvah God.

The Bible tells us that the saints are:




Peace and Blessings in the name of Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

Stop skirting and tell me if you can say 'yes' to any of the following to show me my guilt and error...

- Have I ever taught or mentioned anything that has lead you into any form of sin or not to desire mercy or grace or the things of God?

- Have I ever discredited our Lord, His blood or the work of the cross on behalf of the believer and all men?

-Have I ever drove you away from preaching the gospel to every creature or to break any of the commandments that we have under the new covenant?

- Have I ever discouraged you from going after the promises of God or not to have faith toward God?

- Have I ever stopped you from loving others or to lay your life down for the brethren?

- Have I said anything that would have stopped you from praying or going to the throne of God to find grace to help you in the time of need?

- Is being honest concerning what I discern about others some form or evil or sin in my life that I need to repent of?

- Is having conviction according to grace and truth and through the Spirit going to corrupt others away from serving our Lord Jesus Christ?

Your terrible mistake is not understanding that we are not under the letter of the law and we have no threat of condemnation if we break it. That does not mean that we do not have the conviction of the Spirit of the law within but we are under grace to fulfill it by being filled with the Spirit, walking in the Spirit and being lead by the Spirit. If you want to put yourself under the law you can, but if you offend in one point you are guilty of all of it and must come under the condemnation and judgment of the law as a transgressor. Are you willing to do that or are you going to put yourself under grace and walk in the Spirit by faith and realize that we are hid with Christ in God and that has Christ fulfilled the law. So we are in Christ who has fulfilled the law for every transgressor and when we trust Him as a transgressor we come under grace and not the law. Does that mean that we can sin and transgress the Spirit of the law, NO!, but it does mean that we have an advocate if we do, Jesus Christ our righteousness, who was judged for my sins and transgressions, that I might walk by faith in Him under grace and not the law.

 

[loveme1]

Stop skirting and tell me if you can say 'yes' to any of the following to show me my guilt and error...

- Have I ever taught or mentioned anything that has lead you into any form of sin or not to desire mercy or grace or the things of God?

- Have I ever discredited our Lord, His blood or the work of the cross on behalf of the believer and all men?

-Have I ever drove you away from preaching the gospel to every creature or to break any of the commandments that we have under the new covenant?

- Have I ever discouraged you from going after the promises of God or not to have faith toward God?

- Have I ever stopped you from loving others or to lay your life down for the brethren?

- Have I said anything that would have stopped you from praying or going to the throne of God to find grace to help you in the time of need?

- Is being honest concerning what I discern about others some form or evil or sin in my life that I need to repent of?

- Is having conviction according to grace and truth and through the Spirit going to corrupt others away from serving our Lord Jesus Christ?

Your terrible mistake is not understanding that we are not under the letter of the law and we have no threat of condemnation if we break it. That does not mean that we do not have the conviction of the Spirit of the law within but we are under grace to fulfill it by being filled with the Spirit, walking in the Spirit and being lead by the Spirit. If you want to put yourself under the law you can, but if you offend in one point you are guilty of all of it and must come under the condemnation and judgment of the law as a transgressor. Are you willing to do that or are you going to put yourself under grace and walk in the Spirit by faith and realize that we are hid with Christ in God and that has Christ fulfilled the law. So we are in Christ who has fulfilled the law for every transgressor and when we trust Him as a transgressor we come under grace and not the law. Does that mean that we can sin and transgress the Spirit of the law, NO!, but it does mean that we have an advocate if we do, Jesus Christ our righteousness, who was judged for my sins and transgressions, that I might walk by faith in Him under grace and not the law.

Did the Law you are not "under" not condemn you ?

Is it not Yahshua the Messiah that redeems you from the punishment of trespassing the Law that you are not "under"....................

Yahshua the Messiah died to redeem us from our death sentence, not to make the Law void!!!!






Yahshua the Messiah said himself :

Matthew 5

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

 

[Red33]

When anyone teaches that the holy and precious Grace given us by the shed Blood of our Savior is an excuse to disobey Him in totally disregarding the commandments He teaches us to keep, it is leading others to sin and abomination. It is a corrupt approach to the meaning of the free gift of Grace. Obey Yeshua, He is God, amen.

You believe that I teach others to disobey the commandments the same way that Paul taught to disregard justification through the law of Moses (Acts 13:39). The only reason that you do not make circumcision an issue of obeying the law is because it is not safe to do so in the environment we live in today. But I guarantee it is your preference for your own children and that you would practice it according to what has been prescribed by the law and you would count it as a righteous act of obedience on your part or others that did the same. I am sure there are other areas of the law that you practice and in your heart are justified as an act of righteousness.

You accuse me of using grace to disregard keeping the commandments and that it is leading others to sin and abomination. Tell me the commandments that we have in the NT under the new covenant of grace that I am teaching others to disregard that is leading others to sin and abomination? Are you going to mention that telling others concerning 'not having to keep the Sabbath' is a disregard for the commandments and leads others to sin and abomination? Tell us how it would lead to sin and abomination if one did not remember to keep the Sabbath holy. Also, what would happen to you if you failed to remember to keep the Sabbath? Would God be displeased with you and have to enforce some form of discipline? Would you have to repent from such an outrageous act against one of the (10) commandments? If you did break the Sabbath would you not have broken all (10) commandments based on (Rom 10:4,5 & Jm 2:10,11 )...

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

 

[Red33]

Who taught you this?

Instead of asking who taught this you should be asking where we are taught this in the scriptures. That is what you are afraid of, that something might be found in scripture that you do not understand or has never been revealed to you by the Spirit and that troubles you. It's all right there in the scriptures, 'it is written'.

Here's a taste of the goodness of God in the body of Christ that we have been placed in as a member in particular. I hope that you do not believe the following is for only Gentile believers and not also for the Jewish ones.

Eph 4:7,15,16

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every jointsupplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

1Cor 12:18-27

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

You claim to have the Spirit that reveals the scripture to you, what does the Spirit say about these passages in relationship to the body of Christ and your position in that body as a member? How are you able to give and perform in the body with your supply if you are not joined and gathered together with the members of Christ's body? Can you see any NT commandments given under the new covenant in these passages that apply to believers and members of Christ body and church?

 

[JaumeJ]

Instead of asking who taught this you should be asking where we are taught this in the scriptures. That is what you are afraid of, that something might be found in scripture that you do not understand or has never been revealed to you by the Spirit and that troubles you. It's all right there in the scriptures, 'it is written'.

Here's a taste of the goodness of God in the body of Christ that we have been placed in as a member in particular. I hope that you do not believe the following is for only Gentile believers and not also for the Jewish ones.

Eph 4:7,15,16

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every jointsupplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

1Cor 12:18-27

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

You claim to have the Spirit that reveals the scripture to you, what does the Spirit say about these passages in relationship to the body of Christ and your position in that body as a member? How are you able to give and perform in the body with your supply if you are not joined and gathered together with the members of Christ's body? Can you see any NT commandments given under the new covenant in these passages that apply to believers and members of Christ body and church?

Addressing only the emboldened words at the beginning. No, the question was properly asked, because the written Word kills, it is the Spirit who gives life. The Who is always Jesus, Yeshua, Who is the Word, but only with the Holy Spirit present to teach meaning. So the question is properly posed, this is not hair splitting, this is from the Word taught by the Holy Spirit.......the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are One, amen.

 

[loveme1]

Instead of asking who taught this you should be asking where we are taught this in the scriptures. That is what you are afraid of, that something might be found in scripture that you do not understand or has never been revealed to you by the Spirit and that troubles you. It's all right there in the scriptures, 'it is written'.

Here's a taste of the goodness of God in the body of Christ that we have been placed in as a member in particular. I hope that you do not believe the following is for only Gentile believers and not also for the Jewish ones.

Eph 4:7,15,16

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every jointsupplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

1Cor 12:18-27

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

You claim to have the Spirit that reveals the scripture to you, what does the Spirit say about these passages in relationship to the body of Christ and your position in that body as a member? How are you able to give and perform in the body with your supply if you are not joined and gathered together with the members of Christ's body? Can you see any NT commandments given under the new covenant in these passages that apply to believers and members of Christ body and church?

Who says I'm not joined with members of Yahshua the Messiah's body?

 

[loveme1]

Very bold of you to make such a guarantee.

You said:

The only reason that you do not make circumcision an issue of obeying the law is because it is not safe to do so in the environment we live in today. But I guarantee it is your preference for your own children and that you would practice it according to what has been prescribed by the law and you would count it as a righteous act of obedience on your part or others that did the same. I am sure there are other areas of the law that you practice and in your heart are justified as an act of righteousness.

My sons are not circumcised and I have no plans as an act of righteousness to circumcise them....

Having been circumcised inwardly...

If I felt the need, i would lack understanding of the Spiritual things................

Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah always.

 

[Red33]

Addressing only the emboldened words at the beginning. No, the question was properly asked, because the written Word kills, it is the Spirit who gives life. The Who is always Jesus, Yeshua, Who is the Word, but only with the Holy Spirit present to teach meaning. So the question is properly posed, this is not hair splitting, this is from the Word taught by the Holy Spirit.......the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are One, amen.

Aren't we suppose to study these scriptures to show ourselves approved through the Spirit so that we can have a right understanding concerning these things? You have not given any meaning or understanding as to what these passages are speaking to us as believers, so you are not approved as a workman yet, as to the truth of these passages. So why not study them and tell us what you understand them to be saying in the Spirit for the body of Christ, the church.

 

[Red33]

Very bold of you to make such a guarantee.

You said:





My sons are not circumcised and I have no plans as an act of righteousness to circumcise them....

Having been circumcised inwardly...

If I felt the need, i would lack understanding of the Spiritual things................

Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah always.

That's good, but I wonder about JaumeJ.

 

[Red33]

Who says I'm not joined with members of Yahshua the Messiah's body?

Your a member of Christ's body as a born again believer and Christian, so tell me what you think it means to be 'fitly joined together and compacted by every joint that supplieth'. If you have the Spirit, won't he be faithful to show you the truth of what it means?

 

[redemption]

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[edward99]

what would happen to you if you failed to remember to keep the Sabbath?

If you did break the Sabbath would you not have broken all (10) commandments based on (Rom 10:4,5 & Jm 2:10,11 )...

Even more precisely Red33, mustn't one keep the Sabbath as it was prescribed in all parts and ways?
Not just saying "well, Saturday is the Sabbath so I'll worship & pray this day, or rest this day".

There's quite a bit more involved in keeping the Sabbath than that, isn't there?

I'm for obeying the Moral imperitives in the 10 Commandments. Or trying to. We are to, obviously.
I fail daily though, because even though I have right-standing with God through Christ, I am not yet perfected (putting it mildly).

If I ever reach a point where I think I ACTUALLY DO "KEEP"/FULFILL them to God's Perfect Standard, someone please send me a PM wake-up call.

 

[edward99]

Did the Law you are not "under" not condemn you ?

Is it not Yahshua the Messiah that redeems you from the punishment of trespassing the Law that you are not "under"....................

Yahshua the Messiah died to redeem us from our death sentence, not to make the Law void!!!!

Quote:
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

What did Jesus mean by He came to fulfill the Law?