did Christ retrun in AD 70? Matthew 24

[Ariel82]

[/size]
You will have to reread that in the Word, in Genesis of course. But, synopsized, Noah and his children repopulated the earth with his sons raising their family cum tribes in various parts of the then known world..........study hard, does no good to attend classes if you do not...I am certain you already know all this.

yeah being of Asian descent I don't buy the whole repopulate the earth of the then known world part.

If you believe the Bible to be true, then you have to believe that Noah and his children re-populated the ENTIRE world.. ties it to these verses:

Acts 17
26 And He has made from one blood[c] every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

lol thanks for the advice, I study all the time whether I'm in classes or not. most of the people who know me tell me to take a break, enjoy life and spend time with family and friends. kids only stay little for a short period of time.

Actually I scan CC when I feel like taking a break from my studies and talk with others about the Bible.

Hope you are have a blessed day.

 

[becausehedied]

BECAUSEHEDIED


YOU SAID: agree that Jerusalems desolation was brought about by their sins, but they where made desolate by Rome in AD 70.
However, I would like to see your "evidence" that the Roman armies were not what brought the desolation of Jerusalem about...
I would ask you to carefully read Daniel 9 it is speaking of Christ, and could you give the exact verse about the image being setup in the temple.

Yeah my friend...here it is.

I never said that The Roman armies did not bring the desolation to Jerusalem in AD 70. What I said was that the presence of the Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem was not the "abomination" that caused the desolation.

If OJ Simpson was convicted of murdering his wife and sentenced to death, the act of Murder would be the abomination committed, the State of California would have brought "desolation" to him once they excecuted him. The Jews themselves committed the "abomination, " God chose to use the Roman armies to carry out the "desolation," because of the "abomination" that the Jews committed...understand?

So...Herod's Temple was destroyed in AD 70 just as Jesus predicted, because of the abomination of killing all of the prophets that God sent to it including their own Messiah.

Now...when Jesus mentions in Matthew 24:15 about what Daniel says about the "Abomination of Desolation," he gave all authority to what is written in that book concerning this subject. Luke 21:20-21 mentions how the desolation of Jerusalem will be carried out (Armies over running the city..Daniel 9:26), but Luke does not mention the "abomination" that was committed that brought the desolation to the city, but Daniel does mention it....and here it is.

Daniel 9, where Luke got his information from explains about this foreigner bringing an end to the daily sacrifices in the Temple and destroying the city with his armies, but it does not go into deatail about the abomination committed that brought all of this on. The detail of the abomination is recorded in Daniel 11:31-45.

“So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 And forces[j] shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.

How shall they defile the sactuary fortress?....(the sanctuary fortress is the Temple by the way)... By PLACING the abomination inside of the Temple that will eventually bring the desolation to the city and Temple. We already know the abomination committed that destroyed Herod's Temple in AD 70 was committed by the Jews, Now we know that the abomination that will be committed that will destroy the new Temple in the future will be committed by a foreigner who thinks he is God. I say future Temple because this prophecy in Daniel has not come to pass yet.

Look I do not have the time to debate such logic. So I am will not. I asked you to give me evidence and you gave a valiant attempt, and for that I thank you. I will say this, what is spoken of in Dan. 11 does not fit into what is being said in Matthew 24, Dan. 12 does. You have made many assumptions. the one I like the most in about the future temple, why would Christt reference a temple in the future when His diciples asked about the temple they were looking at Matthew 24:1-3.

Anyway have a good day...

 

[JaumeJ]

yeah being of Asian descent I don't buy the whole repopulate the earth of the then known world part.

If you believe the Bible to be true, then you have to believe that Noah and his children re-populated the ENTIRE world.. ties it to these verses:

Acts 17
26 And He has made from one blood[c] every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

lol thanks for the advice, I study all the time whether I'm in classes or not. most of the people who know me tell me to take a break, enjoy life and spend time with family and friends. kids only stay little for a short period of time.

Actually I scan CC when I feel like taking a break from my studies and talk with others about the Bible.

Hope you are have a blessed day.

You cannot use being Asian as an excuse. My bloodlines are so mixed up, there is no identifying me, but in the spirit we are all alike. Men, woman, the races, all are identical, and one day according to the faith we will all be made just like Jesus, Yeshua, however that is, and yet, He is God. It is enough to be like Him. Actually the thought takes my breath away. I mean, the containers may differ, but the content is all the same. How could you think you and I are not the same? Perhaps certain types may say otherwise, but this I do not believe. No, I will not try to fashion an answer as to why the races, but keep in mind all of the nations are just as different from Jews. Different is different. This being all the same is one of the greatest desires of our Father. He is Spirit and would be worshipped in spirit and in truth, and being His adopted children we most definitely are becoming exactly like He every day until the day He has reserved to finish the work He has begun in each of us. Now, I know it sounds boring being exactly alike, but I also am quite certain there is some kind of wonderful twist to our future being that makes us all with identities easily discerned. Yahweh bless you and hold you close as can be, amen.

 

[IMINJC]

Ariel82

YOU SAID: yeah it does seem like duh but obviously you don't see the irony in your statement since Matthew 24 is answering the questions about the Temple being destroyed...

When you read Daniel it answeres questions about "A" Temple being destroyed, but not Harod's Temple in AD 70, because what's written there didn't happen in AD 70.

You Said: so just to get it straight you think this is referring to some future king and not a past king?

Yes I am....you disagree?...Than produce the facts that shows that this has been fulfilled...it shuldn't be that hard to do after all the hard thing about prophecy is predicting the future not recognizing it after it comes to pass. And don't try to use 200,000 different opinions as to how it's fulfilled as Preterist are prone to do...that only shows that it's not fullfilled...pick one and stand on it. do we have more than one example of Christ fulfilling prophecy spoken of him?...do we have more than one example of the one who was to come to prepare the way for Christ? If it does not fufill all of what Daniel speaks of than keep looking.

You Said: you see I don't think those two things tie together. you just assume they do. Abomination and defying of the temple has been prophesied and fulfilled time and time again in the OT.

You wouldn't because then you would have to admit that your doctrine is false. I never assume...Daniel 9 talks about a foreigner breaking a treaty with God's people and causing the sacrifice to cease (and not because the Temple is destroyed) and then coming in with his armies to destroy the city and Temple...(It didn't happen that way in AD 70...if it did PROVE IT.) Then in Daniel 11 it continues to talk about this same foreigner who defiles the Temple by PLACING the abomination in the Temple.

Show me where it states in scripture that the armies surrounding Jerusalem is an abomination.

You Said: I don't have a time based theology

If you subscribe to the Preterist point of view of eschatology then you most certainly do have a time based theology.

 

[edward99]

Because Calvary was not about daniel and his people. Calvary was about "All nations will be blessed because of you" If calvary was just about Isreal. we have no hope of being saved!

!!
Oh my.
Was any part of the following about Daniel's people and the holy city?

Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


I think it's quite dishonest to keep pushing a futurist bent on this passage when it's clearly fulfilled.


27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

It says AND, not THEN.
AND is a Polysyndeton - a grammatical device for rythym.
If you just read the passage looking back in time, you'd see it.

Polysyndeton
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Polysyndeton is the use of several conjunctions in close succession, especially where some might be omitted (as in "he ran and jumped and laughed for joy"). It is a stylistic scheme used to achieve a variety of effects: it can increase the rhythm of prose, speed or slow its pace, convey solemnity or even ecstasy and childlike exuberance. In grammar, a polysyndetic coordination is a coordination in which all conjuncts are linked by coordinating conjunctions (usually and, but, or, nor in English).

There is nothing that requires this part to take place within the 70th week - Jesus decreed desolation on Jerusalem in the 70th week before He was cut off. But the consummation of that decree, the carrying out of it by Titus happened later. Only futurist mind-set keeps one from seeing it, both in the passage and in History:

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


It's this list of things that was prophesied to happen within 70 weeks, and it did:

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


If you are going to come back with the notion that because unbelieving jews are still sinning it means the work on Calvary is cancelled or postponed or stopped for anyone; that Israel will somehow 'stop sinning'; or some other formula besides Jesus making Propitiation for their sins, and not theirs only but the sins of the whole world could you please spell out how it works?

 

[IMINJC]

becausehedied

YOU SAID:the one I like the most in about the future temple, why would Christt reference a temple in the future when His diciples asked about the temple they were looking at Matthew 24:1-3.


Because as I stated, everything Jesus said in Matthew 24 was not for the disciples generation, it was for a future generation that would be chosen by his Father that would experience the signs stated in Matthew 24 concerning his second coming. The disciples generation was responsible for the signs of his first coming....and they blew it. Check this out...

The disciples were with Jesus when he fulfilled Zechariah 9:9, they saw him riding into the city and the people rejoicing "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!" and as soon as they were alone what did those same disciples ask?...."Master, what is the sign of your coming?" I'm surprised Jesus didn't snap and say "You just missed it you idots!...He did refer to their generation as evil though because of this. Instead of blasting them, he began to give the signs of his second coming to a more deserving generation...one that his Father will choose that will be responsible for recognizing the signs given in Mattew 24....but the Preterist view seeks to make that generation as blind as the disciples generation was.

 

[Ariel82]

When you read Daniel it answeres questions about "A" Temple being destroyed, but not Harod's Temple in AD 70, because what's written there didn't happen in AD 70.

since the kids haven't got back home yet, i'll take a few minutes and answer you.....

these verses sound like Herod's temple which was destroyed in 70 AD to me.....
Matthew 24



24 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

You Said: so just to get it straight you think this is referring to some future king and not a past king?

Yes I am....you disagree?.

neutral asked God about it but He hasn't answered yet. I take it to mean He wants me to keep studying...

this next part should be fun.....going to ignore the part about my doctrine since you haven't a clue what I believe anyways....

Daniel 9 talks about a foreigner breaking a treaty with God's people and causing the sacrifice to cease (and not because the Temple is destroyed) and then coming in with his armies to destroy the city and Temple...(It didn't happen that way in AD 70...if it did PROVE IT.) Then in Daniel 11 it continues to talk about this same foreigner who defiles the Temple by PLACING the abomination in the Temple.

ok lets get this straight. I believe the HE is not referring to a foreigner breaking a treaty with God's people but Christ CONFIRMING the covenant with His people and ending sacrifice by DYING on the Cross and being a better sacrifice and that is why sacrifices cease.

just clear that out so you know what MY doctrine and beliefs actually are.

then Rome came with their armies and destroyed the temple and later set up the abomination. often nations are referred to in the singular sense in the Bible as "he" like Israel is some times referred to as "she" ......

Show me where it states in scripture that the armies surrounding Jerusalem is an abomination.

the abomination would be the idol worship on the Temple mount.....

If you subscribe to the Preterist point of view of eschatology then you most certainly do have a time based theology.

I believe that Jesus will destroy Satan after he has been released from the bottomless pit and judge the world and destroy the earth and establish a NEW Earth and NEW Heaven and that the Heavenly Jeruesalem will descend out of Heaven and fulfill many prophecies in the OT and NT. that all that is in the future.

However I believe that Matthew 24 has been fulfilled because it is not talking about the same thing as Revelation 21 and 22 and because said within THIS generation it would be fulfilled, referring to the generation He was born into.

oh the kids are home and they want to go to a movie. bye...

 

[meecha]

ok lets get this straight. I believe the HE is not referring to a foreigner breaking a treaty with God's people but Christ CONFIRMING the covenant with His people and ending sacrifice by DYING on the Cross and being a better sacrifice and that is why sacrifices cease.

just clear that out so you know what MY doctrine and beliefs actually are.

then Rome came with their armies and destroyed the temple and later set up the abomination. often nations are referred to in the singular sense in the Bible as "he" like Israel is some times referred to as "she" ......

the abomination would be the idol worship on the Temple mount.....

me too



Dan 9
27 And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week




MATT 27 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; 28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

oh the kids are home and they want to go to a movie. bye...

lol

 

[edward99]

me too

Me three

 

[Abiding]

talking confidently and sharply makes some think their point is more valid.
Ok this is the first time iver ever typed this........LOL!

 

[Abiding]

Jesus referring to Daniel.....People have just been trained to think it was only chapter 9.
This is the major difficulty. Daniels a big book.

 

[peterT]

I believe scripture has a lot to teach us and more if people would stop pretending it hasn't already happened and learn from history to anticipate the tactic Satan reuses in the present day and AGE.
.

Learn what from history? There is no history in man’s book or the Bible that Jesus came in 70AD
You are just making it up.

However I don't believe that you were with Satan when he was tossed out of Heaven. You think you have the future figured out and you understand prophecy.
.

Well apparently I understand it better than you Rv19:10the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

but that you have a nasty attitude and are rude and offensive. that is evident to all in your manner of speech and your words.

There are others who might agree with your doctrines but they do not resort in name calling and immature tactics.

anyway You make broad statements in ignorance since you do not really understand my doctrine at all


.

Yes it must seem nasty when someone exposes your unbelief and sin.
But you didn’t hear peter complaining when he got rebuked by Jesus now did you.
But don’t worry for his hand is stretched out still.

whether you are a child of God or not I would not presume to guess or state,.

Yes you can presume, for scripture makes it clear who is of the Lord and its them that hear his word. Try to keep it in context.

. You think you have the future figured out and you understand prophecy.

I believe it is more beneficial to understand the present and pray each day for God to lead you to do His will and leave the future to the future.



Matthew 6:34
Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

1 Timothy 4

Tell that to all the men of God who were looking in scripture to the future for Jesus coming the first time.

They were not worrying about tomorrow they were looking to scripture to the future for Jesus coming.

It does not mean you are worrying about tomorrow when looking to scripture for future events; try to keep it in context.

but that you have a nasty attitude and are rude and offensive. that is evident to all in your manner of speech and your words.

There are others who might agree with your doctrines but they do not resort in name calling and immature tactics.

.

I am well with in my rights to rebuke you for you put a stumbling block before the children of God with your religious nonsense.

1 Timothy 5:20Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
Rv3:19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Some other fruits of the spirit that you might want to take note of.

Jesus made a whip and whipped them out of the Temple, this is also a fruit of the spirit.

Jesus rebuked the devil out of peter for speaking nonsense as I do you; this is also a fruit of the spirit.

Paul rebuked peter for hanging about with the gentiles; this is also a fruit of the spirit.
Galatians 2:14

And a fruit that you might want to show is to do the first works and repent.


Rv2:5Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

 

[Ariel82]

talking confidently and sharply makes some think their point is more valid.
Ok this is the first time iver ever typed this........LOL!

can I just ignore PeterT?

He's starting to annoy me and I know myself well enough to realize I haven't a mature answer for him at this moment....

maybe someone else will.

For the record though, I've never stated where Jesus came back in 70 AD or not.

I stated that Jesus fulfilled Matthew 24 and kicked Satan out of Heaven and rules in Heaven now. that

Matthew 26:64
Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

was fulfilled here:

Acts 7


54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”


Which is different then the FINAL Judgement day which people try and combine two events into one when they are TWO different events.

Revelation 19


11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[e] a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[f] followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[g] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.


is different from. this:



Revelation 20


11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[c] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.


the question is do you believe that JESUS rules NOW in Heaven or that Satan is still in Heaven accusing the Brethren because its a "future" event?

 

[peterT]

can I just ignore PeterT?



I stated that Jesus fulfilled Matthew 24 and kicked Satan out of Heaven and rules in Heaven now. that

Matthew 26:64
Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

was fulfilled here:

That’s not Matt24 that’s Matt26. Try to keep it in context ..


And it doesn’t matter what part you try to highlight it still says the same thing.

And it says, he comes at the end of the world and let NO MAN DECEIVE YOU. Immediately after the tribulation And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven in the clouds, and his angels shall gather together his elect from the four winds, it will be like the days of Noah like a flood, the one shall be taken, and the other left.
No twisting, NO tweaking No interpretation necessary, the chapter speaks for itself

3-Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


4 -TAKE HEED THAT NO MAN DECEIVE YOU.


29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:

and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40-the one shall be taken, and the other left.

 

[Ariel82]

the flood took away the wicked and left Noah and his children.

why are the people gathered from one end of HEAVEN to the next and not one end of the EARTH to the next?

ever think of that?

Or you just going to say its the same thing?

Or just ignore how Jesus comes IN THE CLOUDS in Acts 7?

in CONTEXT? means in the BIBLE. I've already quoted Matthew 24 countless times but you ignored it. thought if you kept reading to mat 26 you might see the WHOLE picture but you ignore it. oh well

i guess I was expecting too much.

John 15:5-7

New King James Version (NKJV)

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

 

[1still_waters]

What gets me about dispies is yet another thing.

Jesus tells THEM that THAT temple in THEIR time would be taken down.

His disciples then ask him, what will be the signs that will take place...

Luke 21

5 And while some were talking about the temple, that it was adorned with beautiful stones and votive gifts, He said, 6 “As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down.”

7 They questioned Him, saying, “Teacher, when therefore will these things happen? And what will be the [f]sign when these things are about to take place?” 8 And He said, “See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, ‘ I am He,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not go after them. 9 When you hear of wars and disturbances, do not be terrified; for these things must take place first, but the end does not follow immediately.”

Then all the stuff Jesus lists after that, tells them the signs of when THAT temple would be taken down.

Ok so the dispies read this and say the signs in this chapter refer to events 2000+ years after THAT temple was torn down!

How can signs that happen 2000+ years from THEM, be a sign TO THEM if they happened after THAT temple came down?

It's a completely insane interpretation of scripture!

Jesus said THESE STONES, they were looking at. The supposed rebuilt temple 2000+ years from then, wasn't standing then, so the THESE STONES can't be stones that weren't there.

Yet dispies say the stuff in this chapter is about events that happen 2000+ years from them, as signs to them?

 

[1still_waters]

So to sum up my previous post.

Dispensationalists are asserting that Jesus is saying to his disciples.....

"The signs that you'll know this temple you are looking at today will be taken down, will appear 1900+ years after the temple you're looking at today is taken down! Yes my disciples, the signs of the temple being taken down will come 1900+ years AFTER the temple is actually taken down!"

Dispies can't say the signs in Luke 21 refer to something post 70ad, because they are linked directly to the very stones Jesus was talking to his disciples about. Those buildings were taken down in 70 ad!

 

[1still_waters]

Of if I can reword it even more.

If Jesus is giving them signs about when THAT temple would be taken down in Luke 21, how can you say those signs are about a future rebuilt temple that wasn't in existence then, when it's pretty clear he was talking about THAT (AD 70 TEMPLE) and NOT some supposed future temple?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What gets me about dispies is yet another thing.

Jesus tells THEM that THAT temple in THEIR time would be taken down.

His disciples then ask him, what will be the signs that will take place...

Luke 21

5 And while some were talking about the temple, that it was adorned with beautiful stones and votive gifts, He said, 6 “As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down.”

7 They questioned Him, saying, “Teacher, when therefore will these things happen? And what will be the [f]sign when these things are about to take place?” 8 And He said, “See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, ‘ I am He,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not go after them. 9 When you hear of wars and disturbances, do not be terrified; for these things must take place first, but the end does not follow immediately.”

Then all the stuff Jesus lists after that, tells them the signs of when THAT temple would be taken down.

Ok so the dispies read this and say the signs in this chapter refer to events 2000+ years after THAT temple was torn down!

How can signs that happen 2000+ years from THEM, be a sign TO THEM if they happened after THAT temple came down?

It's a completely insane interpretation of scripture!

Jesus said THESE STONES, they were looking at. The supposed rebuilt temple 2000+ years from then, wasn't standing then, so the THESE STONES can't be stones that weren't there.

Yet dispies say the stuff in this chapter is about events that happen 2000+ years from them, as signs to them?

You forgot one important question.

what will be the time of these things, 1. The destruction of the temple, the time of your comming and the sign of the end of the age.

3 questions there, You have to assume all these things happened in 70 AD to assume that all christ said meant up till that time/

If there is a rebuilt temple at the end of the age before the return of Christ. then it does not have to be the temple of their day.

 

[1still_waters]

You forgot one important question.

what will be the time of these things, 1. The destruction of the temple, the time of your comming and the sign of the end of the age.

3 questions there, You have to assume all these things happened in 70 AD to assume that all christ said meant up till that time/

If there is a rebuilt temple at the end of the age before the return of Christ. then it does not have to be the temple of their day.

I was quoting all of Luke 21 there. I left nothing out. Actually in Luke 21 and Mark 13, they don't ask about the time of coming and end of age. Matthew 24 is the only one where those are asked.

So we have two texts where those aren't asked, and one where it is. Which leads me to conclude those things are linked TO the temple being taken down, making it in effect ONE question.

Here are the three texts. Notice only ONE asks about the coming and end of age.

Mark 13
13 As He was going out of the temple, one of His disciples *said to Him, “Teacher, behold [a]what wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!” 2 And Jesus said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left upon another which will not be torn down.”

3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and [c]James and John and Andrew were questioning Him privately, 4 “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the [d]sign when all these things are going to be fulfilled?”

Luke 21
5 And while some were talking about the temple, that it was adorned with beautiful stones and votive gifts, He said, 6 “As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down.”

7 They questioned Him, saying, “Teacher, when therefore will these things happen? And what will be the [f]sign when these things are about to take place?” 8 And He said, “See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, ‘ I am He,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not go after them. 9 When you hear of wars and disturbances, do not be terrified; for these things must take place first, but the end does not follow immediately.”

Matthew 24
24 Jesus came out from the temple and was going away [a]when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”

3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

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Everything is clearly anchored around the event of THAT temple coming down. That is what they're asking about. The additional questions in Matt 24 are anchored to the temple event.

The THESE things they are asking about is when the temple would come down, for that is the only thing Jesus was directly talking about.