Westboro Baptist- Christian or not?

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Crossfire

Guest
#61
#61
tribesman said:
Taken what you have written elsewhere about this, you made a clear connection to calvinism. And we're talking about WBC in this thread.
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Intellectualized Christianity can occur within any doctrine or denomination. Such people profess to be regenerated however their fruit clearly prove otherwise. Westboro Baptist Church is an excellent example of such people. They profess to know Christ but their actions appear contrary to scripture:

"By this it is made clear who take their nature from God and are His children and who take their nature from the devil and are his children: no one who does not practice righteousness [who does not conform to God’s will in purpose, thought, and action] is of God; neither is anyone who does not love his brother (his fellow believer in Christ)." - 1 John 3:10
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Crossfire

Guest
#62
#62
tribesman said:
Taken what you have written elsewhere about this, you made a clear connection to calvinism. And we're talking about WBC in this thread.
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Apparently you don't take time to actually read the posts that you stand in opposition to. If you had, you would know that my definition of "intellectualized christianity" is not limited to Calvinists. Neither are all Calvinist "intellectual christian".

It's not always about you guys....
:D
 
Crypto

Crypto

Senior Member
#63
Nov 14, 2009
662
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#63
smithbr8 said:
I don't understand why other denominations can declare another one as not Christian. It's happening primarily with Catholics, but Westboro is another one. Everyone interprets the Bible differently. They are literalists. Why does that make them non-Christian? I don't agree with half of what they do, but I wouldn't go as far as to say they aren't Christians.
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Westboro is a hate group with cultic attributes. The Bible may be open to interpretations, but the gospel isn't. There is one way to heaven, not several.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#64
#64
Crossfire said:
Apparently you don't take time to actually read the posts that you stand in opposition to. If you had, you would know that my definition of "intellectualized christianity" is not limited to Calvinists. Neither are all Calvinist "intellectual christian".

It's not always about you guys....
:D
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G

greatblue

Guest
#67
#67
Wow. Never heard of them. Still haven't really because my internet filter won't let me access their site. Supposedly for weapons, gambling, and questionable content.

Then when I looked closer, I saw it said www.godhatesfags -- wait, didn't I just click on Westboro Baptist Church. Sure enough.
 
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Daniel94

Guest
#68
#68
greatblue said:
Wow. Never heard of them. Still haven't really because my internet filter won't let me access their site. Supposedly for weapons, gambling, and questionable content.

Then when I looked closer, I saw it said www.godhatesfags -- wait, didn't I just click on Westboro Baptist Church. Sure enough.
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If you go to YouTube you can see plenty of videos of them. They were on the Tyra Show, Fox News(I think Hannity & Colmes), some show from the UK(can't remember what it is called) and there are also just videos of them protesting out there.

To me it looks as if they are just filled with hate and I watched all of the videos I mentioned, but on the Tyra Show in particular the woman just kept getting angry.

Crazy Baptist Lady On Tyra Bank's Show Part 1 - YouTube
 
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violakat

Guest
#69
#69
First, the only way a Catholic is a Christian is if they have accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior. If they haven't then they are not a Christian. Oh wait, that goes for all denominations. Yep, that's right. It doesn't matter what denomination you are, if you have never accepted Christ as your Savior of your sins, you are not saved. That means the Baptist, Catholics, Church of Christ, Methodist, Pentecostal, Non-Denominational, and every other denomination.

As for Westboro, as someone mentioned earlier, you will know a Christian by his fruit.

"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

Do you see the above fruits mentioned on average, in the Westboro people? By the way, Westboro is not the only group. They are just the most well known, because they are the most active.
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Any church that preaches a Gospel different from what is in the Bible, is not teaching truth.
 
S

Shyness

Banned
#70
Aug 17, 2007
496
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#70
To tell you the truth, Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church is just as bad and as harmful as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints led by Warren Jeffs.
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#71
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#71
jimmydiggs said:
You're doing what is popular among many today. You find a verse that seems to contradict the one someone else has, and then simply choose the one you prefer, never dealing with the other verse.

As for John 3:16, it is often misquoted as the greek word kosmos is being used in reference of believers only.


Source Kosmos - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard <-- click
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God is love and that love is impersonal and without partiality, which means that God does not need a response from anyone for Him to love and His love is not partial. God is love with or without a response. God sent His Son because He loved the world with impersonal love. He sent His Son to take care of the sin issue in satisfying the His justice and to provide reconciliation to sinful man who was was separated and lost because of sin.

We should be very thankful that God SO LOVED the world, referring to all those that were caught up in that terrible system of humanity in bondage to sin and iniquity. God is no respecter of persons and the blood was shed for the propitiation of the sins of the whole world, that we were all a part of, being conceived in sin and shapen in iniquity. To even consider that His blood was only shed for those who would believe is a total misunderstanding as to why and to whom God sent His Son.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#72
#72
Shyness said:
To tell you the truth, Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church is just as bad and as harmful as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints led by Warren Jeffs.
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Seriously, where do you get that idea?
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#73
#73
Red33 said:
God is love and that love is impersonal and without partiality, which means that God does not need a response from anyone for Him to love and His love is not partial. God is love with or without a response. God sent His Son because He loved the world with impersonal love. He sent His Son to take care of the sin issue in satisfying the His justice and to provide reconciliation to sinful man who was was separated and lost because of sin.

We should be very thankful that God SO LOVED the world, referring to all those that were caught up in that terrible system of humanity in bondage to sin and iniquity. God is no respecter of persons and the blood was shed for the propitiation of the sins of the whole world, that we were all a part of, being conceived in sin and shapen in iniquity. To even consider that His blood was only shed for those who would believe is a total misunderstanding as to why and to whom God sent His Son.
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I'm glad to know, that is what you you believe.
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#74
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#74
jimmydiggs said:
I'm glad to know, that is what you you believe.
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I'm glad that you are glad to know. Just to make it clear, (Jn 3:16) does apply to ALL sinful men, the love applies to ALL, the Son being sent applies to ALL, the believing applies to ALL, the whosoever applies to ALL, the not perishing applies to ALL and the promise of everlasting life applies to ALL. If that is what you believe, then we can be glad together because we are likeminded in the love of God that sent His Son to be the mercy-seat for the whole world and not just for an elect few like some would have us believe. I hope you are not one who has been carried away with that dissimulation. I hope you believe in the truth concerning the love of God that was laid down for all men, that all men might be saved. There was nothing in particular about you or me that Christ shed His blood for that is any different from any other man born and conceived in sin and separated from God.
 
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MidniteWelder

Guest
#75
#75
So then the addition to doctrine "hate the sin and not the sinner"
isnt an actual scripture in the bible? hmmm
I was wondering why I couldnt find it even tho so many seem to quote it as opposed to actual scripture, and here I was about to start taking in homosexuals and child molestors into my home based on this even though the bible tells us in Titus 3:10
Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.
Thank you for keeping me from being a compromising Christian Jimmy :)

jimmydiggs said:
I guess the Psalmist was wrong?

Psalm 5

3 In the morning, Lord, you hear my voice;
in the morning I lay my requests before you
and wait expectantly.
4 For you are not a God who is pleased with wickedness;
with you, evil people are not welcome.
5 The arrogant cannot stand
in your presence.
You hate all who do wrong;
6 you destroy those who tell lies.
The bloodthirsty and deceitful
you, Lord, detest.
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MidniteWelder

Guest
#76
#76
While Im here Jimmydiggs, if I may ask your humble opinion
In 2 Timothy 4:3 When it tells us
3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
Would this scripture be referring to the time of the last days we now live in?

As well offering us warning not to turn away but to still adhere to Gods law since Jesus told us he came not to abolish the law
as In Proverbs 28:9 when it says, if ANYONE turns a deaf ear to the law, even his prayers are detestable.

Does this "ANYONE" apply to anyone without partiality?
And to everyone who offers no response to the Lord when he speaks or prompts or convicts them with his Love
his love which includes discipline and correction
His Love which is perfect and just in his ways and not our ways since we are also told in Isaiah 55:8
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, and my ways are not your ways, Declares the Lord"
Thanks for any insight brother
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#77
#77
Red33 said:
I'm glad that you are glad to know. Just to make it clear, (Jn 3:16) does apply to ALL sinful men, the love applies to ALL, the Son being sent applies to ALL, the believing applies to ALL, the whosoever applies to ALL, the not perishing applies to ALL and the promise of everlasting life applies to ALL. If that is what you believe, then we can be glad together because we are likeminded in the love of God that sent His Son to be the mercy-seat for the whole world and not just for an elect few like some would have us believe. I hope you are not one who has been carried away with that dissimulation. I hope you believe in the truth concerning the love of God that was laid down for all men, that all men might be saved. There was nothing in particular about you or me that Christ shed His blood for that is any different from any other man born and conceived in sin and separated from God.
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Look at the Greek word Kosmos. What you want it to be, is not what it is.
 
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violakat

Guest
#78
#78
jimmydiggs said:
Look at the Greek word Kosmos. What you want it to be, is not what it is.
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&#954;&#972;&#963;&#956;&#959;&#962; = people, universe, world
Another place has the definitions as follows:

1. an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
2. ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:
3. the world, the universe
4. the circle of the earth, the earth
5. the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
6. the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
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In looking it up online, the actual word used is Kosmon (&#954;&#972;&#963;&#956;&#959;&#957;), which I'm assuming the root is Kosmos.

None of the places where I looked the word up, did they specify only a select group that Christ died for. Instead, if you notice definition 6 from the second listing, it specifically states the WHOLE MASS of men alienated from God. Now, it's quite possible there maybe some additional definitions not included, but I highly doubt it.
 
Mediate

Mediate

Banned
#79
Dec 14, 2009
1,400
2
0
#79
smithbr8 said:
I don't understand why other denominations can declare another one as not Christian. It's happening primarily with Catholics, but Westboro is another one. Everyone interprets the Bible differently. They are literalists. Why does that make them non-Christian? I don't agree with half of what they do, but I wouldn't go as far as to say they aren't Christians.
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'Christian', is a very loose term.

Are suicide bombers muslims? Not really, in my eyes.

They interpret the Q'uran in a most literal sense.

Half the time when Mohammed says crazy things, it's like where Jesus says for us to cut out our eyes or hands if they cause us to stumble.

He is being sarcastic to the Pharisees saying, 'so, Pharisees, you think we should just exclude people who sin, and ignore our impure thoughts?'

He's telling us, 'action starts with motive. He who hates his brother, has committed murder in his heart'.

The bible is full of hyperbole.

Your question was 'are these people Christians?'

Well, they can call themselves anything.

The problem comes when other people get tagged in the same bracket.

Maybe by title one is Christian, or Muslim. But it's all about the heart, really.
 
Mediate

Mediate

Banned
#80
Dec 14, 2009
1,400
2
0
#80
Literalism usually involves the fierce belief that the particular denomination is the 'right one', and the work is for God, and for the greater good, and God knows it. Over-zealousness is extremely dangerous though.

It becomes a Pharisaical teaching, and in that zealousness and staunchness there is no room left for real compassion. Literalism tends to make one forget that God is best served humbly and with charity.

Case in point; Q'uran burning Christians. Elitist KKK. Extremist Muslims. All literalists believing they are the chosen people who will get through the 'narrow gate'.
 
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