love

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When a thread about love becomes about sex, lust and personal attacks, we are no different than the world. We could use a little prayer in here...

When sex is seen as bad, that's pretty sad. All I did was stir the pot, I've made no personal attacks to anyone. I know I seem like the bad guy because I know what Christian ideas are on the subject. True colors come out when good points are made against which someone has firm beliefs, that's just how it happens, I don't blame them. Neurologically it's difficult because the brain doesn't like to change with new information through data that's never been analyzed before.
 
POINT # 1:

Eros =/= Lust

You have got to be kidding me with this.

Even if the OP was specifically talking about Eros, Lust is the ILLICIT or OVERWHELMING desire to have sexual relations, not share your life with that person, or even fall in love with them.


When I truly fall in love with a woman, it is for her, not for the desire to have sex with her. Even a desire to have sex with a woman I would consider my wife, believe it or not, has nothing to do with lust. It is an expression of Love (eros) not an act of sexual gratification. Sex is something sacred, something that given the right context is magically beautiful. Sex is an expression of Love (Eros) and not the goal of it.

POINT # 2

Real attraction has nothing to do with Lust either. I am not one of those guys who is sexually uncomfortable watching Ballet, Gymnastics, figure skating or Tennis as played by women, because I can be attracted to and appreciate the beauty of a woman without it involving any desire to have sex with them.

Initial attraction that stems from the beauty of a woman, to me, has more to do with beauty itself than lust. I can see the shades of color in her eyes. I can follow the weaving strands of her hair. I can adore the dimples on her cheeks. I can be captivated by the light from her smile. I can be lost in the grace and tone of her voice. I can fall for her from what moves her and what she is passionate about, and still there is no lust.

Love is the longing to make someone's very soul delight and overflow with a magical happiness. Love is pure.

Do you not remember in your youth, the feelings you had for the girls you saw? When I was young I had several crushes on girls but, there was one in particular. I can honestly say that I loved her. My only goal in feeling the way that I did was to make her happy and for her to see how much I loved her. I did not know of sex or lust or any fantasy. If this was missing in your life, then I pity you.

If the love you seek has something to do with lust, you are doing it wrong.
 
Whole different topic. :) We did discuss it a while back. You might be able to drag up the old thread if you want some other people's opinions. Search for Ritter's "marital hedonism" genesis and you'll find that thread!!

A quick preview of that thread: Lust in marriage interferes with your relationship with God. Since the extreme (lust) takes your focus off of God and puts it on something earthly.

But I'm more interested in Love really. Jullianna probably has the most varied experience, perhaps if we ask nicely she might expand on her original thoughts some more.

I see what you mean. Sure I'd like to hear that. oh and Jullianna. Prayer is always good, forgot to mention that.
 
.Love is not an emotion. It is a comittment
Perhaps the OP was trying to illustrate a specific point whereby Love is elevated to something higher than just an emotion? ;)

Perhaps it can also be said that:

Love is a certain something - without Lust - that cares only for - and is directed towards - another.
Lust is a certain something - without Love - that cares only for - and is directed towards - self.

:)

.
 
POINT # 1:

Eros =/= Lust

You have got to be kidding me with this.

Even if the OP was specifically talking about Eros, Lust is the ILLICIT or OVERWHELMING desire to have sexual relations, not share your life with that person, or even fall in love with them.


When I truly fall in love with a woman, it is for her, not for the desire to have sex with her. Even a desire to have sex with a woman I would consider my wife, believe it or not, has nothing to do with lust. It is an expression of Love (eros) not an act of sexual gratification. Sex is something sacred, something that given the right context is magically beautiful. Sex is an expression of Love (Eros) and not the goal of it.

POINT # 2

Real attraction has nothing to do with Lust either. I am not one of those guys who is sexually uncomfortable watching Ballet, Gymnastics, figure skating or Tennis as played by women, because I can be attracted to and appreciate the beauty of a woman without it involving any desire to have sex with them.

Initial attraction that stems from the beauty of a woman, to me, has more to do with beauty itself than lust. I can see the shades of color in her eyes. I can follow the weaving strands of her hair. I can adore the dimples on her cheeks. I can be captivated by the light from her smile. I can be lost in the grace and tone of her voice. I can fall for her from what moves her and what she is passionate about, and still there is no lust.

Love is the longing to make someone's very soul delight and overflow with a magical happiness. Love is pure.

Do you not remember in your youth, the feelings you had for the girls you saw? When I was young I had several crushes on girls but, there was one in particular. I can honestly say that I loved her. My only goal in feeling the way that I did was to make her happy and for her to see how much I loved her. I did not know of sex or lust or any fantasy. If this was missing in your life, then I pity you.

If the love you seek has something to do with lust, you are doing it wrong.

Well said. Thank you, this really helped me. I did feel that way about someone, sort of.
 
When sex is seen as bad, that's pretty sad. All I did was stir the pot, I've made no personal attacks to anyone. I know I seem like the bad guy because I know what Christian ideas are on the subject. True colors come out when good points are made against which someone has firm beliefs, that's just how it happens, I don't blame them. Neurologically it's difficult because the brain doesn't like to change with new information through data that's never been analyzed before.

I didn't say sex was bad. :) I happen to be a fan of sex (within marriage, of course) myself, but it's not what love is all about and it's not the title of this thread.
What you are saying isn't the problem, Brandon. It's the way you are treating and speaking to fellow believers who genuinely care about you that is troublesome.
 
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Whole different topic. :) We did discuss it a while back. You might be able to drag up the old thread if you want some other people's opinions. Search for Ritter's "marital hedonism" genesis and you'll find that thread!!

A quick preview of that thread: Lust in marriage interferes with your relationship with God. Since the extreme (lust) takes your focus off of God and puts it on something earthly.

But I'm more interested in Love really. Jullianna probably has the most varied experience, perhaps if we ask nicely she might expand on her original thoughts some more.

Let me sleep on it :)
 
Love is the fruit of meaningful relationships, but means little until it becomes a verb.

(I can't sleep, so I may as well do it now :) )

I was thinking of the many types of love there are...

The love God has for us/us for Him -

"As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul pants for you, O God."

The Holy Spirit calls to us, woos us. We thirst for God. We hunger for His love. If that's not emotion, I don't know what is. He IS love. He lives in us and changes us into less of what we were to more of what He is. It's what love does. It changes people.


The love we have for one another -

1 Corinthians 12: 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

Suffering...rejoicing...born of our love for one another. Genuine compassion, pure love.


The love we have for our children -

This was most definitely not a choice for me. I loved my son even before I met him. He lay next to my heart. He recognized my voice. He responded to my voice. Before he even breathed his first breath he meant more to me than my own life. I can't imagine anything that will ever give you a better understanding of God's love for you and all He was/is willing to do for you than this type of love.


The love of a man -

Loving someone has never been a choice for me. I have loved those I did not want to and fought very hard not to. I am ruled by my spirit and the wisdom of God and not by my heart, so I have not always acted upon that love, but I could never deny that it was there.

The kind of love that is enduring in a man/woman relationship is that type of love. You didn't CHOOSE to love that person anymore than you could choose not to love them. If it is simply a choice, it would be far easier to walk away from. The person becomes a part of you. There is a hole in your life without them. You DO become one with them and nothing is real to you unless they are a part of it.

Their comfort, their happiness, their needs, their safety, their passions, their joy becomes YOUR joy. Sacrifice means nothing because it ceases to be sacrifice and becomes a gift from your life to theirs.


Love that lasts is more than a decision or a concept. It's a force that drives you to make it a verb.

There are probably more types...but I'm tired now. :)
 
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"Lust is not love, pay attention please."

and love does not proceed from lust, sin does.
 
Love is being mistaken for lust by many people. The bible gives us 16 characteristics of love.
 
1 corinthians 13: 4-7

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
 
Since when is a marriage between two people ever brought on by pure selflessness? No, that's not how it works in the real world. Women want to be told: I want you. They want to be wanted. Is that selfless? No. It's selfish. Same goes for men. They want to be wanted and cared for. What reason would an ideal marriage selflessly come together for? How about a marriage of peace to unite to countries? sure. that works. What about for the rest of us? There wouldn't be 10% of the marriages we have now if they were all purely selfless. I can see the ideal though. Fun to play with.

I wanted to formulate a response to this without derailing the thread
and it's haaaaaard lol
Maybe because English isn't my first language :( :D


Here goes...

My love for God has created a desire in me to die to my self everyday;
with the Holy Spirit leading me to not live my life by the standards of this world.

And so Yes, I believe all types of love in its purest form manifest pure selflessness.
That was how Christ demonstrated His love for the Father
for His friends, for His family, for His persecutors... for the Church.
Sadly, the real world think that idea is ridiculous.

While I cannot say I selflessly love everybody around me,
I do try to let God use me to express His love to the people around me.

Now, as for marital aspects..

I believe God orchestrated marriage for His greater glory;
to symbolize the union of Christ and His church.
Marriage doesn't exist just for us to live happily ever after and have awesome virtuous sex.
There is more to it than just that.
Joy, peace, and genuine contentment in marriage only comes when the couple
seek God and His will more than anything else.
 
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The more I ponder this, the less I believe love could ever be narrowed down to either an emotion or a commitment. It’s more powerful than emotion and richer than commitment. It’s certainly more than a choice. If it were a choice we could heal a broken heart by simply deciding that it doesn’t hurt. That doesn’t happen. That requires healing, doesn’t it?

There’s another type of love that comes to mine. Love for unbelievers - the broken, lost and hurting. God wants them to be restored. He loves them. If we share HIS heart, this should be our passion as well.John 14:15 - "If you love me, you will obey what I command."

John 14:21 -
"Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
John 14:23 -
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 15:10 -
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.
1 John 5:3 -
This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
2 John 1:6 -
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

^^This is what I meant by love, if true, becoming a verb. ^^ It’s not just something you say. It stirs you to serve - to put your wants or what you think might be best for yourself, on the back burner for those you love...and then forget it was even there...and don’t care because it’s been replaced by something greater.

THIS is why, as a woman, I have no problem with submitting to a husband. It SHOWS him that I love him, that I trust him, that I believe he cherishes me, and that I respect him. It SHOWS God that HIS will is more important than my own pride. And it SHOWS others how to surrender your will to the will of God, as Christ, Himself, did. The servant is not greater than the Master, right? (Mt 10:24)

One of the most amazing things about love is that it outlives us. :) Those of you who have lost parents, children, spouses and/or significant others know what I mean. Love for them lives on in your heart like a treasure you never have to release. Funny thing...you don’t really remember any of the bad times. It’s the things you love about them that remain. Love truly does cover a multitude of sins, doesn’t it? :)
 
The more I ponder this, the less I believe love could ever be narrowed down to either an emotion or a commitment. It’s more powerful than emotion and richer than commitment. It’s certainly more than a choice. If it were a choice we could heal a broken heart by simply deciding that it doesn’t hurt. That doesn’t happen. That requires healing, doesn’t it?

There’s another type of love that comes to mine. Love for unbelievers - the broken, lost and hurting. God wants them to be restored. He loves them. If we share HIS heart, this should be our passion as well.John 14:15 - "If you love me, you will obey what I command."

John 14:21 -
"Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
John 14:23 -
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 15:10 -
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.
1 John 5:3 -
This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
2 John 1:6 -
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

^^This is what I meant by love, if true, becoming a verb. ^^ It’s not just something you say. It stirs you to serve - to put your wants or what you think might be best for yourself, on the back burner for those you love...and then forget it was even there...and don’t care because it’s been replaced by something greater.

THIS is why, as a woman, I have no problem with submitting to a husband. It SHOWS him that I love him, that I trust him, that I believe he cherishes me, and that I respect him. It SHOWS God that HIS will is more important than my own pride. And it SHOWS others how to surrender your will to the will of God, as Christ, Himself, did. The servant is not greater than the Master, right? (Mt 10:24)

One of the most amazing things about love is that it outlives us. :) Those of you who have lost parents, children, spouses and/or significant others know what I mean. Love for them lives on in your heart like a treasure you never have to release. Funny thing...you don’t really remember any of the bad times. It’s the things you love about them that remain. Love truly does cover a multitude of sins, doesn’t it? :)
But emotions aren't really verbs, they are adjectives/nouns, and love is a verb. DC Talk told me so! :P

Honestly Jullianna, I agree with you for the most part, but also see differing implications from the things we agree on.

Yes, I agree that love is far greater than just a choice or emotion. That said, I have a different approach to your broken heart question. I believe that love consists of ALL emotions. As such, it is foolish to call any of them individually "love." The one that leaves us with a broken heart I would imagine is a combination of disappointment and loss. But in love, we feel happy and sad and angry and excited and content and... the full gamut of emotions.

So in the end I see that love can't be defined at all as an emotion or feeling because it isn't one, or even several, it consists of ALL of them. And so we must look to something else to truly define love. Thus, I am left with needing to find verbs to describe love (it is a verb remember :P) and the only verbs that I can find to truly describe it are "choosing to be committed and selfless", and then also "being committed" and "acting selflessly." The desire to do these things may be onset by an excitement or other emotions, but I wouldn't define that as love as much as "the start of love".

I hope this makes sense.
 
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But emotions aren't really verbs, they are adjectives/nouns, and love is a verb. DC Talk told me so! :P
The dictionary and DC Talk differ here.
Thus, I am left with needing to find verbs to describe love (it is a verb remember :P) and the only verbs that I can find to truly describe it are "choosing to be committed and selfless", and then also "being committed" and "acting selflessly."
How about "Wanting to", instead of "choosing to"? And expecting nothing in return?
You can choose to help someone, but do it grudgingly. You can give someone something... in the hope that you will get something in return. I don't think either of those actions would epitomize love.
I hope this makes sense.
You never make sense. :p
 
**really hopes this thread has gotten past the tit for tat bickering :)
 
How about "Wanting to", instead of "choosing to"? And expecting nothing in return?
You can choose to help someone, but do it grudgingly. You can give someone something... in the hope that you will get something in return. I don't think either of those actions would epitomize love.

Choosing to be self-less covers the second. Really, choosing to embrace the want covers the first. The want alone seems to fall under the same category as the excitement, "the start of love" not what it truly is.

Since neither action you describe is selfless, I would agree it does not epitomize love. :)
 
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As the Father hath loved me so have i loved you: continue in love. if ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love;even as i have kept my Father's commandments, abide in His love(John 15vs 9-10)
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love (1 John 4vs 8)
i love u all :D