Eternal Security - If saved, always saved! Part 1. - By David Stewart

ChosenbyHim · Sep 22, 2012

Those Who Do Not Inherit

The Kingdom . . .

Are They Saved or Unsaved?

Introduction

Today in the evangelical world there is a mushrooming movement which professes to champion the “free grace position,” but which others see as dangerously approaching antinomianism. Those who embrace this doctrinal position insist that a true believer can depart from the faith, deny Christ totally, persist in sin (including homosexuality, drunkenness, adultery, etc.), abandon Christianity, and yet still be counted among those who are truly saved. According to this view, such apostates will gain heaven, but will suffer greatly at the judgment seat of Christ and during the kingdom reign of Christ. Indeed they teach that there will be a group of saved people during the kingdom age who will put into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (a hell for believers?).

They divide the body of Christ into two parts: 1) the joint-heirs with Christ (those who suffer with Christ and persevere to the end; 2) those saved people who are not joint-heirs with Christ (those who do not suffer for Christ and who do not continue in the faith, the non-overcomers, the immoral believers, etc.). [For a complete analysis and refutation of this doctrinal position, see the study entitled, The Theology of Zane Hodges and Joseph Dillow and the Grace Evangelical Society and also the study Refutation of the Teachings of Zane Hodges, Joseph Dillow, etc. by James Ventilato]

The growing popularity of this movement is due, at least in part, to three factors:

1. The writings of Zane Hodges who for many years taught at Dallas Theological Seminary. [Zane Hodges sets forth his theological position in the following books: The Hungry Inherit, The Gospel Under Siege–A Study on Faith and Works, Grace In Eclipse–A Study on Eternal Rewards. These books are available from Redencion Viva, Box 141167, Dallas, TX 75214. See also his commentaries on Hebrews and 1,2,3 John in The Bible Knowledge Commentary.]

2. The writings of Joseph Dillow who has systematized this teaching into one comprehensive volume. [Dillow’s volume is entitled The Reign of the Servant Kings (649 pages), Schoettle Publishing Company, P.O. Box 594, Miami Springs, FL 33266.]

3. The influence of The Grace Evangelical Society which publishes a newsletter and a theological journal, both of which receive wide circulation. This society strong promotes the teachings of Hodges, Dillow and others of a similar persuasion. [The Grace Evangelical Society, P.O. Box 167128, Irving, TX 75016-7128. This society has published several commentaries, including one written by Zane Hodges dealing with the book of James.]

Hodges, Dillow and Wilkin (GES) are brothers in Christ. To my knowledge they are living for Christ and walking worthy of of the gospel. It is not our desire to cast any aspersion on these men, their character, or their ministries, but simply to examine their teachings in the light of the Word of God. We hold no animosity towards these men. We agree with them on most of the doctrines of the Christian faith, but we are very concerned about some of their teachings as described and explained in this present article.

Can a Saved Person Fail to Inherit the Kingdom

and Yet Still Enter It?

One of the key doctrinal issues pertaining to this “free grace” movement revolves around this question: Will all believers inherit the kingdom of God or only some? Hodges and Dillow insist that all believers will enter the kingdom but that the immoral, carnal, wicked believers (those believers who are drunkards, homosexuals, thieves, fornicators, covetous, etc.) will not inherit the kingdom. Are those who do not inherit the kingdom saved persons, as this view suggests, or are they unregenerate?

Heirs of the Kingdom

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God” (1 Cor. 6:9-11).

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God” (Gal. 5:19-21).

“For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God” (Ephesians 5:5).

The “Free Grace” Position

The Teaching of Zane Hodges and Joseph Dillow
The fruitful believer
The partaker or heir
The believing believer
The overcomer
The barren believer
The carnal one (non-heir)
The unbelieving believer
The non-overcomer
This righteous believer will inherit the kingdom of God and will reign with Christ during the millennium.
This unrighteous believer (even one who persists in adultery, drunkenness, fornication, homosexuality, etc.) will not inherit the kingdom. He will not share in Christ’s millennial reign. He will enter the kingdom and be a citizen of the kingdom and live in the kingdom as a resident, but will not inherit the kingdom. He will be excluded from the wedding feast. According to this view, he will be cast into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (yet he is saved!).

Zane Hodges says, “There is no difficulty at all in speaking of people who live in the Kingdom of God but who do not inherit that Kingdom…the heirs of the Kingdom, then, are its owners, not merely its residents or citizens.” [Zane C. Hodges, Grace in Eclipse (Dallas: Redencion Viva, 1985), p. 71. ] Joseph Dillow writes: “All Christians will enter the kingdom, but not all will rule there, i.e., inherit it….They will, having been justified, be in the kingdom; however, they will not inherit it….There is a difference between being a resident of the kingdom and inheriting it.” [Joseph C. Dillow, The Reign of the Servant Kings (Miami Springs, Florida: Schoettle Publishing Co., 1992), pages 62, 64, 78.] Dillow adds, “they will be in the kingdom but not at the wedding feast.” [Ibid., p. 389.] Faust teaches that these wicked saved people are totally excluded from the kingdom and that they will taste of the second death and then be punished in the fires of Hades for a thousand years.

ChosenbyHim · Sep 22, 2012

“What Saith the Scriptures?”

Hodges and Dillow divide saved people into two distinct categories—-the spiritual and the carnal, the overcomers (Rev. 2-3) and the non-overcomers, the “partakers” (Heb. 3:14) and the non-partakers. However, in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Paul makes it clear that the group of immoral people he is referring to is not the carnal Corinthians. In verse 11 he says, “and such WERE some of you.” In chapter 3, verse 3, Paul said to the Corinthians: “For ye ARE yet CARNAL.” Paul acknowledged that they were carnal and yet he did not include them with the unrighteous ones described in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. Such a description only fit them when they were unsaved. That is what they WERE. If the Hodges/Dillow view were correct, then Paul should have said in 1 Corinthians 6:9, “and such ARE some of you.”

When Paul speaks of the “unrighteous” (unjust) in 1 Corinthians 6:9 he is not speaking of some carnal, unworthy, unpersevering members of the Body and Bride of Christ. No, Paul uses the term “unrighteous” (unjust) as a description of unsaved, unregenerate, lost people. This term “unjust” is clearly defined for us in the context of this chapter. In verse 1 Paul says, “Dare any of you having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?” (1 Cor. 6:1). Paul clearly distinguishes two groups: 1) The unjust (the unsaved) and 2) the saints (the saved). These same two groups are seen in verses 9-11. In verse 9-10 we have the unrighteous (unjust) which are the unsaved. They will not inherit the kingdom. In verse 11 we have those who are justified and sanctified. These are the saints (the saved) who will inherit the kingdom. There is no such thing as a saint or a saved person who will not inherit the kingdom, contrary to the teachings of Hodges and Dillow.

We need to carefully follow Paul’s argument in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. What is it that makes a person RIGHTEOUS and able to inherit the kingdom? Is it because the saved person has persevered in the faith and walked closely with the Lord and thus has earned his share in the kingdom, as Hodges and Dillow suggest? No! In verse 11, Paul says that the reason the Corinthians are righteous and thus fit to inherit the kingdom is because they have been JUSTIFIED! Even carnal Corinthians will inherit the kingdom because they are seen as perfectly righteous IN CHRIST!

Paul’s argument is as follows:

1. The unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom (1 Cor. 6:9-10).

2. Every believer has been justified or declared righteous (1 Cor. 6: 11).

3. The justified believer, therefore, is not unrighteous.

CONCLUSION: Every believer will inherit the kingdom based solely on his righteous standing in Christ Jesus made possible only by the grace of God! [Paul was championing the free grace position!]

Comparing Luke 18:18 with Matthew 19:16 (two parallel passages) demonstrates that the expression “inherit eternal life” means the same as “have eternal life.” INHERIT means to possess, to receive, to have. In Matthew 19:29, we read “inherit eternal life” and in the parallel account (see Luke 18:30) we see that the expression means “receive eternal life.” To inherit the kingdom means to possess the kingdom, to have a place and a part in the kingdom (cf. Rev. 20:6 “part”), to participate in its blessings and benefits. Those who do not inherit the kingdom are those who do not possess it, who have no part in it. They are excluded from the kingdom and its benefits.

In considering the Ephesians 5:5 passage, the very next verse speaks of God’s wrath coming upon THE UNSAVED because of their sins: “Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things (see v.5) cometh the wrath of God upon the CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE” (Eph. 5:6). If the Hodges/Dillow view were correct, we might expect Paul to discuss how God’s wrath will come upon saved people, the carnal ones who are persisting in such sins; but instead Paul discusses God’s wrath upon the children of disobedience (the unsaved).

In the Galatians 5:19-21 passage, we learn that those who persist in the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom. Hodges and Dillow teach that fleshly saved people will not inherit the kingdom, though they will enter it. But notice what Paul says in this same context about all saved people: “And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts” (Gal. 5:24).

Three passages (1 Corinthians 6:9-11; Ephesians 5:5 and Galatians 5:19-21) essentially teach the same thing—the wicked (the unrighteous, those in the flesh, etc.) will not inherit the kingdom. In light of these three passages consider also Revelation 21:8—“But to the fearful and unbelieving and those who make themselves abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.” It is very obvious that the Apostle John was speaking of unsaved people, not some class of carnal and wicked Christians. Putting all four of these passages together forces us to conclude that those who do not inherit the kingdom will have their part (inheritance, share, portion) in the lake of fire! James Ventilato says it this way:

After all, according to 1 Corinthians 6:9,10, Ephesians 5:5 and Galatians 5:19-21, those who, e.g., are characterized as fornicators, idolaters, impure persons, covetous persons, sorcerers, murderers, etc.–these all shall not inherit the Kingdom of God; and likewise, according to Colossians 3:5 and Revelation 21:8, those who, e.g., are characterized as fornicators, idolaters, impure persons, covetous persons, sorcerers, murderers, etc.–upon these all comes the wrath of God in the lake of fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

In Matthew 25:31-46, the Lord Jesus mentions only two groups, the sheep (saved) and the goats (unsaved). The Hodges/Dillow view supposes three groups: the unsaved, the wicked saved who do not inherit the kingdom, and the righteous saved who do inherit the kingdom. The Lord Jesus taught that the goats (unsaved) will go away into everlasting fire—everlasting punishment (Matt. 25:41-46). He taught that the sheep (saved) will inherit the kingdom: “Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand [the sheep, see verse 33], Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world” (Matt. 25:34). There is no indication that the Lord was speaking to only some of the sheep, and there is no indication that any of the saved people were excluded from inheriting the kingdom.

This Matthew 25 passage raises an interesting problem for Hodges and Dillow, who both teach that there is no necessary connection between faith and good works. In the judgment of the nations (Matthew 25:31-46), those Gentiles who do not perform good works toward the saved Jewish remnant during the tribulation will be eternally punished and will go away into everlasting fire (Matthew 25:41-46). This indicates that there must be a relationship between a person’s faith and his works. Hodges and Dillow teach that a saved person can be devoid of good works. If the Hodges/Dillow view were correct, then why should these Gentiles who lacked good works be sentenced to eternal punishment? The passage makes sense only when we understand that true saving faith is evidenced by one’s works.

In the New Testament, numerous passages indicate that ALL BELIEVERS are heirs and that all believers participate in the inheritance. Consider the following: Ephesians 1: 14, 18; Colossians 1:12; 1 Peter 1:4 (“an inheritance incorruptible”); Acts 20:32 (an inheritance which is shared by “all” who are sanctified); Romans 8:17 (“heirs of God”); Titus 3:7 (those “justified by His grace” are “heirs”); Hebrews 1: 14; 6:17; 11:7. James 2:5 identifies those who are “heirs of the kingdom” as those who are “rich in faith,” indicating that all believers are heirs of the kingdom. These passages argue against dividing saved people into two classes—those who are heirs and those who are not.

Who Will Enter the Kingdom in Natural Bodies?

This has been a difficult question for those who believe in a post-tribulation rapture, but it also is a major problem for those who embrace the teachings of Hodges and Dillow.

Here is the problem facing Hodges and Dillow and Wilkin:

1. “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption” (1 Cor. 15:50). Hodges and Dillow understand this to mean that those who inherit the kingdom will be in resurrection bodies, not in mortal bodies. Keep in mind that in their way of thinking, the ones who inherit the kingdom are the victorious, overcoming believers in contrast to other saved people whose faith has failed, who are immoral, or who do not measure up in some other way.

2. “Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world” (Matthew 25:34). Since the sheep inherit the kingdom and since mortal flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom, Dillow concludes that “the resurrection and transformation of the sheep occur prior to their ‘receiving the kingdom’ and must be simultaneous with the judgment of the sheep and the goats.” [The Reign of the Servant Kings, pages 78-79] In other words, they believe the sheep must enter the kingdom in resurrected, glorified bodies. This is contrary to the common dispensational position which teaches that the "sheep" represent saved Gentiles during the tribulation who will enter the kingdom in natural, unglorified bodies.

3. Hodges and Dillow recognize, and rightly so, that there will be people in the millennium kingdom in mortal bodies. Dillow cites Isaiah 65:20 and Ezekiel 36:11 as indicating that there will be physical procreation and physical death in the kingdom and he cites Rev. 20:7-10 as referring to a multitude of unregenerate men at the end of the millennium in mortal bodies who will rebel against Christ. [The Reign of the Servant Kings, page 78]

4. If in Matthew 25 the sheep are the saved people (the overcomers) and the goats are the unsaved people prior to the beginning of the kingdom, and if the saved people “inherit” the kingdom by ruling with Christ in resurrected bodies, then where are the saved people who will enter the kingdom in mortal bodies? Dillow has no dogmatic answer to this problem: “Since the Scriptures are silent on this problem, one must be careful how he explains the difficulty.” [The Reign of the Servant Kings, page 78] The solution that Dillow suggests is patterned after the fact that those who perished in the wilderness because of their unbelief had children who were allowed to enter the land of promise. Based on this Dillow says, “In a similar way, perhaps the believing children of the sheep who have escaped the judgments of the great tribulation will constitute a kind of ’second exodus’ and will be the mortal believers who enter into the coming kingdom.” [The Reign of the Servant Kings, page 79]

5. Bob Wilkin, the Executive Director of the Grace Evangelical Society, wrote the following: “I do believe that the sheep at the Judgment of the Sheep will enter the millennium with resurrected bodies (in light of 1 Cor. 15 that flesh and blood cannot inherit [=rule] the kingdom and Jesus’ statement in Matt. 25 that the sheep will inherit it). If that is so, the people who have natural bodies and who have children during the millennium are the children under the age of accountability who survive the tribulation.” [From a personal letter to this writer from Bob Wilkin dated 4/4/95.] So apparently Wilkin believes that the people who enter the kingdom in natural bodies are the young children and babies who will survive the tribulation being under the age of accountability at that time, and their parents could be either saved (sheep) or unsaved (goats). Dillow teaches a somewhat different view, namely, that they are the believing children of the sheep. Both apparently agree that no adults will enter the kingdom in natural bodies.

In conclusion, those who hold the position that only a special class of believers inherits the kingdom are forced to face the prophetic problem of how people in mortal bodies enter the kingdom.

How Should We Understand

1 Corinthians 15:50?

In 1 Corinthians 15:50, Paul is writing to church-age believers. He is about to reveal the mystery of the translation and transformation of living church saints at the time of the rapture (verses 51-53). It is absolutely true that no church-age believer will inherit the kingdom in a flesh-and-blood body. When it comes to the church, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God” (verse 50). Why not? Verses 51-53 explain.

Other Scriptures, however, such as Matthew 25:31-34, teach that believing tribulation survivors will inherit the kingdom in flesh and blood bodies and though they are saved, they will have corruption in their hearts, even a sin nature, which will be passed down to their children.

Dillow and Hodges err by taking verse 50 to be a truism for all saints, even tribulation saints. The truth set forth in verses 51-53 clearly applies only to church saints. May not verse 50 apply only to church saints as well?

Actually, 1 Corinthians 15:50 and its context argue strongly against the Dillow/Hodges view. Dillow and Hodges teach that out of all the church saints, only the spiritual elite (the “overcomers”) inherit the kingdom. Some church saints inherit the kingdom but not all. But in the very next verse, verse 51, notice the twice repeated emphasis on the word “all.” All will be changed and delivered from flesh and blood corruption, including the carnal Corinthians! ALL church saints inherit the kingdom apart from corruption (verse 50) by way of the rapture/resurrection (verses 51-53).

Conclusion

Who Are Those Who Do Not Inherit the Kingdom?

The “unrighteous” that Paul is referring to in 1 Corinthians 6:9 are unsaved people who have never been justified. They are “unjust” in contrast to “saints” (compare 1 Cor. 6:1). Contrary to what Hodges and Dillow teach, the “unrighteous” do not refer to a group of carnal believers who are eternally saved but who will not inherit the kingdom and will not reign with Christ. The passage teaches nothing of the kind. Indeed, Paul teaches that all those who are saved are not unrighteous because they have been washed, sanctified and justified! This would include the carnal Corinthians!

Those who profess faith in Christ but who then persist in a wicked and immoral lifestyle, such as characterizes the unregenerate, are giving evidence that they have never been born again. God’s Word certainly recognizes the problem of carnality among God’s saints (1 Cor. 3:1-4), but Paul in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 is contrasting those who are unrighteous with those, including the carnal Corinthians, who WERE unrighteous but who have been justified by faith. All those who are justified by faith are righteous in Christ and will inherit the kingdom. Those who “shall not inherit the kingdom” is not a description of fleshly believers who do not qualify for kingdom rewards. Those who “shall not inherit the kingdom” are the unregenerate, whose destiny is the lake of fire.

--George Zeller (revised 6/02, 7/06)

Other documents that relate to some of these issues:

The Theology of Zane Hodges, Joseph Dillow, Robert Wilkin (the Grace Evangelical Society) and the more extreme view of J.D.Faust

feedm3 · Sep 22, 2012

ChosenbyHim said:

I use the KJV as well. Yet it is nothing more than a translation. It has errors just as every other trans does.

I am sure you know of them. The perfect word, is in the Greek, only the Greek. It is ignorant to think the KJV is the ONLY true Bible, it's ridiculous to think that the the 1000's of years the KJV did not exist, GOd's true word did not either. It also says other Bibles in other languages are satanic. Must all learn KJV English to understand the Bible?

and if it is perfect, why the errors? Why "easter" for "passover", "unicorn", etc?

Wow "kid". You just said if the man if I Cor did not STOP commiting adutlery he would have been saved in the end.

No need to go any further with you, until you clear that up, becuase obvsiouly were not on the same page and your already saying you never said things you just did.

HEre it is again for you:

Your statment:

My question based on this statement:

Your answer: Emphasis in red added by me:

Now here you just said if he refused to Stop: so this means he was an adulterer who would not stop being this,

And you said "he still would have been saved i the end"

NOw your saying that you never said one can live in adutery and inherit the kingdom of God.

So are you saying that one who continues in adutltery, never enters the kingdom, is still going to heaven????

I dont need to "prove it" the word of God tells you. THe servant was cast with teh unbelievers, the Gal would "fall from grace" and "have Christ become of no effect to them" the Hebrews "would have no more sacrife for sins", How else could one say it?

YOu refuse these clear and explit passages because it does not have the wording "will lose salvation".

That is pathetic. Were does it says "will not ever lose salvation"?

Your saying we can fall from grace, have Christ become of no effect, and have no sacifice for sins, and still go to heaven. Gal 5, Heb 10:26

seriously, I dont believe even you ebleive this deep down. Your trying to fool not only me, but also yourself.

You just said:

So you say if a Christian lives in sin (ie does not repent) he will lose his life but still be saved.

Then you say an adultery can ONLY be saved if he repents.....

So how can both of these be true at the same time?????

If a Christian MUST repent to go to heaven, how is it that a Chrisian living in sin showing no repentance get to heaven?

YOU JUST FLAT OUT CONTRADICTED YOURSELF TWICE

So your saying are now justified to live in sin, and santified to live as aduterers, only with the earthly consequnces?

Your pasting 10 year long articles only shows you cant deal with what is said, so you run to others writing to try and prove my position wrong.

Read the Bible, not aritcles - Matt 15:9 "the doctrines of men".

"keep it simple?" You mean by ignoring the context and just believing what you say? NO thanks.

I showed you word for word that context. You didnt reply to it because their was really nothign you could say. It was too easy to understand when you just keep it in context.

Its you that have the false private interpretioan. You want me to believe that despite the immediate context, of what labor is, of what adding to the foundation is, and just accept that the context changed in that one passage and meant someting totally unrelated. AND YOU KNOW IT

That is a deceptive trick. Christ died for our sins, So we CAN REPENT. - ROm 6:1-3.

Your trying to convince me he died for my sins so if I continue in them I will still have heaven. A doctrine of men and the source is Satan.

We will all be judged. Their is ONE ressurection. IT wil consist of both the just and the unjust. I know you probrably have an artilcal trying to explain Rev, a highly symbolic book that many like you wrestle with, but the fact is, the judgement seat of Christ iS the one and only judgement.

And so will you if you done REPENT of them. You really think Christ died so you can escape sining without repentance?

Well according to the rest of your post, you did not clear up your condratcion with the servant in Luke 12.

You did not give a valid reason for rejecting it. You have two new contradictions. So answer those first and spare the false articles. If you cant refute me with your own words, then i am not interested.

RickyZ · Sep 22, 2012

Wow. That's a lot to do about nothing. It's simple; you acknowlege and accept Christ as the Messiah and you are saved, deny Him and you're not. Doesn't matter what order those two come in. Accept now and deny later, then you're in now and out later.

megaman125 · Sep 22, 2012

feedm3 said:

ChosenbyHim said:

I'm not a KJV only person, but unicorn is not an error. 200 years ago, if you looked in a Webster's dictionary, and looked up the word unicorn, you would see rhinoserous, and if you looked up the word rhinoserous, you'd see unicorn. It said nothing about mythology or a horse-like figure. So if the definition of the word unicorn changed over th course of 200 years, it's illogical to apply a modern definiton of the word unicorn to a 400 year old translation of the Bible.

feedm3 · Sep 22, 2012

megaman125 said:

feedm3 said:

Interesting, I did not know about that. Makes alot of sense. thanks for telling me.

However, even without the "unicorn" there are still multiple errors just as in any trans. Nothing that would keep us from understanding God's will, but they are there. I still use the KJV and ASV as my main study bibles.

megaman125 · Sep 22, 2012

feedm3 said:

megaman125 said:

Right, and that's why I'm not a KJV only person.

ChosenbyHim · Sep 22, 2012

feedm3 said:

Wrong! The King James Bible is 100% perfect, inerrant and infallible. There are absolutely no errors in the King James Bible. Just because you are gullible enough to believe any liar out there who thinks he knows something just because he has had some years of college education under his belt, than your assumption does not count. In fact, I am going to give you a quote by Dr. Peter Ruckman since he said it best in one of his theological seminars of the air, here is the quote:

"Every man who has ever professed to have found an error in the King James Bible is a pathological liar."

Amen! I agree with him.

Just because a "GREEK" professor has some years of seminary training under his belt does not give him the right sit in judgment over the word of God. Let me tell you something kid, you let BOOK correct you, and you do not correct it. Of course God's word existed before 1611. And any foreign translation out there that is translated from the King James Bible and Textus Receptus shall be counted as a reliable foreign translation. As long as it is not copied from the satanic, corrupt manuscripts of Siniaticus and Vaticanus.

feedm3 said:

Easter is not an error in the KJB. And neither is Unicorn. Here is a video by Will Kinney who has proven that Unicorn is not an error in the KJB. You may want to watch it, that way you can be corrected.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrz1jhCn0Qg[/video]

[/quote]

ChosenbyHim said:

Well, yeah that man was saved and justified. If he would have continued in that adulterous relationship, he would have died very young. Yet he would still be saved. Because he is in the Body of Christ. Now, notice that question which you asked me. You are the one who asked me if that man did not stop committing adultery, what I thought would happen to him. Well, wouldn't you think from reading the Scriptures, that if his body was given over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that he would not be able to commit adultery with his father's wife any longer? I mean wouldn't you discern that that was the penalty which he received in his flesh and body for doing that wicked deed?

So, who really has the ulterior motive here?

feedm3 said:

Yeah, you might as well stop the discussion here, because if you think that you are smarting than God and if you think you are in a position to correct His word, then you are your own final authority. And you do not submit to the authority of God's holy word, the King James Bible. And you better believe that we are not on the same page. You would rather trust in a Bible critic and a Bible corrector whose god is his education than trust in God's ability to give us a perfect Bible. Let me tell you something, God cannot lie. Read Hebrews 6:18 and Titus 1:2. Now here is another question for you, who is the Author of the Holy Scriptures? It is the Holy Ghost. Read 2 Peter 1:21. Therefore if God is the author of His written word, then that means His word must be perfect. That means there must not be any errors in it.

And you demented, Bible critics who think that you are smarter than God, and have placed yourselves above the word of God. Bible agnostics like James White and others like him, such as Bruce Metzger have placed their seminary education above the word of God. So, apostates like James White and Bruce Metzger have basically called God a liar.

That is why I can say that if I meet anyone who claims that they have found an error in the King James Bible. That same person I can call a liar.

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.- Romans 3:4 (KJB)

These pastors who hold the King James Bible in the air as they stand behind the pulpit and loudly proclaim that the Bible does not contain the word of God but is the word of God and yet deep down in their hearts they believe it has errors in it and that it can be corrected are not only liars but they are also hypocrites. Since they profess to believe in a book that they really do not believe in at all. Since they believe it has errors in it. In fact, these hypocrites that say they believe that the Bible is the word of God, really believe that no such book exists since they really believe that only the "original autographs" were inspired and perfect. Hence, it is no wonder that there is such apostasy as there is today.

feedm3 said:

No, your just twisting my words. Again, if a person lives in adultery, do you think that he is truly saved?

And you have not even read the article which I shared, now have you?

Here's the thing buddy, if your not going to take the time to examine your arguments against eternal security and see what the Pauline epistles has to say about it, then there is really no use in continuing this dialogue with you. If your contempt in staying in error, then by all means, stay in your error.

feedm3 said:

There you go again with misapplying a passage of Scripture from Hebrews that is addressed to a tribulation saint, and your still misapplying that verse in Hebrews to a saved, blood washed, born again believer who is sealed with the Holy Spirit in this dispensation known as the Church Age.

And also that passage in Galatians was talking about a Gentile believer who was trying to live back under the law. Basically what Paul was saying was that If they are justified by keeping the law, then they have fallen from grace. In other words, if you try to live under the law than you are trying to be justified in the flesh. That passage in Galatians is not talking about one losing his salvation. No Christian can lose their salvation in the church age.

feedm3 said:

No, your argument against eternal security is pathetic. Let me ask you, where does it say that a Christian can lose his salvation? Can you find it?

feedm3 said:

I am not trying to fool anyone here. I told you before that Hebrews 10:26 is addressed to a tribulation saint in the time of Jacobs trouble. You see, if you are honest with yourself than you and I know that you have sinned willfully after the time where you were saved. In other words, you know that there has been a time in your life after you have gotten saved, where you were faced with temptation and that you gave into that temptation even though you knew it was wrong. We all have done that, therefore, we have sinned willfully after we have done that. But there is a difference between a saved saint who falls into temptation and sin. And when a hell bound, lost, Christ rejecting sinner dives into sin and temptation on a daily basis.

ChosenbyHim · Sep 22, 2012

feedm3 said:

What type of sin are you talking about? It depends. Because what that Christian sows in his flesh, that will he also reap.

feedm3 said:

Well yeah, if an UNSAVED person who is an adulterer repents and calls on the name of the Lord Jesus and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, then yes that unsaved person is now saved and he is cleansed from his sins. The Bible says that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (See John 3:16)

feedm3 said:

The purpose of a Christian repenting of his sins after he gets saved, is for him to have fellowship with Father. It is to have his fellowship with his heavenly Father restored. No, I did not contradict myself. You asked can an adulterer be saved? I said yes, that adulterer can be saved if he repents and calls on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that then he shall be saved. You see, if that person was not saved, that means he was not a Christian.

Just like anybody can be saved, whether there are a murderer, a pornographer, a liar, a thief, etc. Whosoever will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved. And that point when they get saved, their sins are no longer imputed to them but now they have the righteousness of Christ imputed onto them.

feedm3 said:

Huh? How could you ever come up with that conclusion after you yourself asked me whether or not an adulterer, a lost sinner could be saved?

feedm3 said:

You not even taking the time to read those articles I posted shows that you cannot handle nor can you deal with the evidence and the information, since it totally refutes your ridiculous argument and position. You see, you can't handle the information and the material that I am sharing with you. Why? Because you cannot handle sound doctrine. And eternal security is sound doctrine. So, whether you like it or not, Eternal Security of the Gentile Believer in the Church Age is Biblical and it is Scriptural.

feedm3 said:

I do read the Bible, thank you very much

And I rightly divide it as well. That's how I can trust that I am eternally secure.

Haha! Doctrines of men? Yeah it sounds like you have been submitting to doctrines of men for too long now if you actually would believe some liar who tells you that there is an error in God's word, the King James Bible.

And by the way, the Bible that I read is perfect and it does contain one error in it. It is absolutely perfect, pure, and infallible. Unlike the bible you read. You believe the book that you have in your hands is not even God's word.

feedm3 said:

No, keep it simple by allowing the Scriptures to interpret the Scriptures.

feedm3 said:

No, I replied by telling you that you need to rightly divide the word of truth and that you need to stop misapplying Hebrews 10:26 to a Sanctified, blood bought, saint in the Body of Christ who is eternally secure, who is sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of Redemption in this dispensation known as the church age.

feedm3 said:

No, you just missed the point. That passage was talking about the Judgment Seat of Christ.

feedm3 said:

No, I am telling people flat out that if you are truly saved in this dispensation of grace that you cannot lose your salvation. That is what I am telling you.

I did not ever try to convince you that Jesus died for your sins just so you could continue in them. I never tried to convince you of such a thing and you know it. Just because you do not believe that God is able to perfectly preserve your soul unto the day of redemption, don't try to say that I am trying to convince you that you can live like the devil and not have consequences.

You see, you are trusting in your works to justify you. That is brats like you who cannot handle sound doctrine nor can you handle the sound doctrine of eternal security. So, if you can't handle the sound doctrine, then you will question it. Like your doing right now. Let me ask you this again, if we could not do anything or any good work to get saved, then what makes you think that your works could keep you saved? Salvation is not of us, it is of God. You better get that straight Feedm3 and stop depending on your works to justify you. The fact that you are trying to pull an argument of this sort and trying to convince Christians who have sinned after they were saved, that they have lost their salvation just shows your own hypocrisy when you yourself know that you have sinned willfully well more than once after the time you got saved. You people that try to convince a Christian that he can lose his salvation might as well come out and say what you really believe. You believe that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ was not enough to preserve you after you got saved. That's basically what you guys believe.

feedm3 said:

Nope, you are WRONG again. Surprised?

There is more than one judgment. There are actually 7 judgments. However, the Judgment Seat of Christ is the only judgment that is for the Christian and Born again believer. You must not know your Bible to well, nor have studied it enough.

feedm3 said:

No, I believe that Christ died so that we can live a life in service to Him. Knowing that if we do sin, we can confess that sin and have our fellowship with Father restored. Now, if a Christian sins one time during the day and he never confesses it, let's say he gets in a car crash and dies, what happened to him? Where did he go? Did he go to hell just because he never got around to confessing his sin? No, he is in heaven because he has been forgiven from all trespasses. What does all mean? It means ALL!

feedm3 said:

What Contradiction?

What are the two new contradictions again? The articles which I am sharing with you are not false. They are being shared to help you out. That way you can correct your error. You have not even read the articles so you have no right to say they are false when you have not even taken the time to read them. Don't be a liar who talks from out of the side of his neck. Because that is what you are doing, your basically talking out of the side of your neck. And it is looks foolish quite frankly. Do the due diligence to study. Don't worry kid, I have already refuted you with simply sharing Scripture with you. You have failed to prove that a Christian can "supposedly" lose his salvation in this dispensation. And you failed because you cannot prove such a thing from Scripture. You may fool other people, but you are not going to fool me kid.

feedm3 · Sep 22, 2012

ChosenbyHim said:

Now your just beating around the bush. The sin weve been discussion is the man in Corinth who was living in adultery.

I said "if he does NOT repent, and continues in adultery" will he be saved in the end?

You replied "his life would be cut short but he will be saved in the end".

That contradicts the statement you made saying "one who does not repent and show a changed life was never saved."

Here let me make this simple, so our conversations do not get so long their not worth reading. Your not dealing with my arguments anyway, your just repeating what you believe, yet not why with any scriptural support.

Just saying "I already reftued you with scripture" does not show anything. You just say these things I guess to feel you are doing a good job?

YOu didnt refute anything. You have not even shown why you believe what you do. You are not dealing with the context I show, the wording of passages, nor any of the contradiction implications your making. You just say "i refuted" as if that makes it appear you really did. If you did, show me where, certainly not in this post above, it said nor validly gave any reason, answer, or logic that would show me to be wrong.

I dont know if your trying to fool me, you, or the people reading, but trust me, no one falls for that. People can read you know.

So this should be easy enough.

Lets make sure were defining words the same, as it could lead to confusion.

I can tell you I believe repentance is a change of mind FOLLOWED by an action of obedience, i.e. a changed life.

One living IN sin has not repented. One who stopped living in sin (though it does not mean he will never sin again) has repented.

So how do you define this word?

1. What does it mean to repent?

2. Must a person repent of sin to be saved?

3. If one (a Christian) lives in sin (i.e. refuses to stop committing adultery) can it be said he repented?

4. Is obedience required of the Christian, and will disobedience keep a professing Christian from being saved?

5. Since you believe those who do not repent like the unfaithful servant in Luke 12 "were never saved", why were they never saved?

Was it because they were living in sin, showing no repentance?

IF you just answer these honestly, I can maybe understand you better.

k "kid"?

feedm3 · Sep 22, 2012

There you said it again. "IF an UNSAVED person REPENTS". Of course. That is not the question.

I asked if a Christian DOES NOT REPENT and live in adultery, will he still be saved?

You are now saying, that the unsaved MUST repent, but the saved do not have to.

That is just plain evil. So when a person becomes a Christan, they now can live in adultery and go to heaven. But before they became a Christan their living in adultery would send them to hell.

So you feel Christ came, obeyed, died, so we CAN live in adultery if we want to, (with earthly consequences) and walk right in heaven's gates.

Yet Paul says NO adultery will inherit the kingdom of God. You say he will too, as long as hes a Christan adulterer. If not then explain.

See how easy it is to expose your message? It's because its not from God.

I never asked if an adulterer can be saved. I know the answer to that, of course he can. If he repents.

I asked can a professing Christian continue living in adultery, showing no repentance, and be saved.

You said yes, here on this post, and others.

So you flat out disagree with Paul, Christ, and me. You seriously need to loose the fake cocky attitude, and hear God.

I agree. And again, never asked this question. Your pulling out the straw man argument. You know what the question was "can a Christian live in sin and still be saved" you said yes, which is a contraction to your statements saying we must repent.

So, this is irreverent, and ONLY shows you cant deal with actual arguments, so your inventing a false quesiton so you can appear to be refuting me, yet your only refuting yourself here, because no asked if an adulterer or murderer could be saved. All people can be saved.

Yet thats not the argument here, it is repentance and you know this, your stalling, and trying to avoid your contradictions, which only shows you could not deal with them.

This seems to be typical of OSAS people. Straw men, and fake questions.

So yo ur contradiction still stands, because you still have no dealt with it. Waiting......

Blah Blah, seriously. Like I said, then you read the articals and bring up the arguments. I dont need a 10 page artical to explain to me what Heb 10:26 means.

And if their such great arguments why dont you know them enough to post them without a paste? Obviously your not even familiar with them, and just googled something hoping to find your way out of the corner youve backed yourself into. Sorry didn't work. Try again. Try answering.

Assertion, no scripture, no valid argument, only your opinion which I dont care about. So no response here. Not until you make an argument based with scripture:

I said I read the KJV, now you say it's not the word of God. Okay, keep refuting yourself. Ill just listen.

Then why wont you apply that? Especially in the context "works being burned". You ignored that, could not explain the simple context it's in, and just made another assertion with no scripture or valid argumentation. If fact when are you going to start making a valid argument?

Your arguments go like this:

Me: that car is read

You: no its not, no cars can be red.

Me: Here is proof, it says it's red on the title

You: no it doesn't, you misinterpreted that

Me: okay explain"

You: You misinterpreted that because cars cannot be red!

NO valid reason, nothing explain why you believe it, just keep repeating what you believe in an cocky way thinking it fooling people. this is exactly how your explaining why we can never lose salvation.

This reply of the last post you wrote is a perfect example of just that. I cant even find a passage in here.

Yes you did reply that, and you did it again here. As I said you just keep repeating what you ebleive and not why.

Here it is again - the car is not red..........Okay I get it now tell me WHY?????

Yes it was. And I said that judgement is the one and only judgment upon all.

And you keep repeating this as well, yet again, no reason to why I am wrong, just you saying it.

Yup, you are telling me this. Guess what? Still dont know why, and still just repeating your opinion.

Straw man again. Turn this into "God is not able". I never said nor implied that. Again you invent these to purposely digress away from the actual argument.

God has given us his WILL for us. That is able to perfect and preserve us. If we Choose not to live by HIS will, then it's not God who is not able, it YOU who is not able.

So leave the straw man out, and focus on the actual argument at hand. This only shows your not capable of doing so.

Wow. Third straw man in one post. I dont trust in my works. Repentance and obedience is NOT a work. It is a duty - Luk 17:10, Ecc 12:13

A work as a good deed does not save us.

A duty which is something were expected to do, will cause us NOT to inherit heaven, just as the unfaithful servant proved.

What was your answer to this? Oh yea, you never answered, you could not, you just said Jesus words do not apply to us.

So you just throw that out. How convenient. Now I have to get you to believe that Jesus' words will judge us - Jn 12:48

Let me guess, that is talking about one of the 1000 different judgements you believe. Oh yea, when are you going to show scripture for this?

NONE. Because I dont believe we can do a work or works that will save us. I do believe we must repent, keep his commands - which neither are works, but the "DUTY" of every Christian.

Heb 5:9 and being made perfect he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY HIM

Is this the best you have? Are you really going to make the focus of this based on a straw man?

Are you really going to ignore the 100 times Ive said repentance is not a work, neither is obedience?

Are you going to ignore Heb 5:9 and think that is implying works save us?

Let me ask you this since your obviously going to dwell on this fake diversion.

Is "keeping God's commands" a work, or the "duty, of a Christian, according to Luke 17:10?????

Just answer that will you?

I bet you wont even give a straight answer, because you know if you do, you can no longer use that straw man, so you'll try to beat around the bush again.

Be a man, answer it. It's a simple question, yet it will blow away your works smoke screen.

RickyZ · Sep 23, 2012

You have to remember that salvation is a free gift of God to anyone who accepts His Son, and as such there is nothing outside of denying Him that can keep you out of 'heaven'. BUT, and it's a huge but, remember too that when He gathers us together we will be judged and rewarded for what we have done. So while sin can't keep you out, it will determine what you will have once you get there.

feedm3 · Sep 23, 2012

RickyZ said:

You have to remember that salvation is a free gift of God to anyone who accepts His Son, and as such there is nothing outside of denying Him that can keep you out of 'heaven'. BUT, and it's a huge but, remember too that when He gathers us together we will be judged and rewarded for what we have done. So while sin can't keep you out, it will determine what you will have once you get there.

Hebrews 10:26

ChosenbyHim · Sep 23, 2012

feedm3 said:

No, I am not beating around the bush. I gave you Scripture where the Apostle Paul had the Congregation at Corinth deliver that man's body over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh. That was the penalty for that man's sin. Yet that man's spirit would be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. You simply cannot handle the fact, that that man was saved and that he never lost his salvation. That is why you are asking me that question.

feedm3 said:

Okay, I see what your getting at now, well let me clarify something. And I will clarify by saying this; if someone simply "professes" to be a believer in the Lord, and yet his life never shows any fruit or any change, then yes it is highly likely that man is a false convert. You see, the modern churches in America are producing many false converts since they are not preaching the whole Gospel. They are preaching the love of God, but they are not preaching the coming judgment and wrath of God. Hence many of times, you'll have a person who think he got saved, or will profess that he is saved, when in reality he really is not saved. I mean it doesn't take a doctorate degree to figure out the difference between someone who "professes" to be a Christian and a person who truly is a Christian. Now when you asked me that question, I gave you the response I did, since I knew 1) that man was saved by reading the Scriptures in 1 Corinthians 5. And if he was saved, that means he was NOT a false convert nor was he just a "professing" believer. He was truly saved. Yet he got caught up in a lot of carnality. Which should not be a surprise or shock because the church at Corinth, was the most carnal church in the whole New Testament!! I mean you had people in there committing fornication. It was commonly reported that there was fornication among them and Paul rebuked the saints in that church for being puffed up and for not mourning. Sometimes it is hard to tell if a person is genuinely saved or not, because if s truly saved Christian gets too caught up in the world where he starts to get idle and no longer reads the word or prays or fellowships with the saints, that same Christian will look as if he just a heathen. One thing is for sure though, that man in 1 Corinthians 5 was saved. That is why he never lost his salvation. And by the way, the very fact that that man in 1 Corinthians 5 was saved, shows you that there was a time where he did sincerely repent and believed on the Lord Jesus. So, that is why I answered your question like I did.

feedm3 said:

Feedm3, I have been giving you Scriptural support all along. I am not simply telling you what I believe. I am showing you Scripture to back at what I am saying.

feedm3 said:

No, I said what I said because I have already refuted your position. You see Feedm3, the very fact that you are not rightly diving the Bible into its divisions shows that you have not even posted a sound defense for your argument. In order to properly study and understand the Holy Bible, you have got to be a dispensationalist. There is no way around that.

feedm3 said:

Yes I did feedm3, I did refute your argument against eternal security by showing you that you were misapplying a passage of Scripture in the book of Hebrews to a born again saint living in the church age. When that passage in Hebrews is referring to is a tribulation saint (Hebrew) in the time of Jacobs trouble. You have to be a dispensationalist, or otherwise you'll cause contradictions to take place in the Scriptures. The fact that you keep ignoring what I said to you about your problem with misapplying Hebrews to a Church Age saint in regard to his salvation just shows that you yourself are doing the same thing that your accusing me of doing.

feedm3 said:

Of course people can read. Now the question is, will they take the time to read and study the information? I am not trying to fool anybody here. I am showing people from Scripture that if you get saved in the Church Age, then you are eternally secure. You are kept by God. You are kept by His power. Therefore, our salvation is of God. The gift of God is eternal life. And God is not an Indian giver. He does not give and take back. Once God gives us Eternal Life through His Son Jesus, we are sealed unto the day of redemption (Again, see Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30)

Also, we are part of the Lord Jesus Christ's flesh and His bones. Did you know that? Guess who said that? The Apostle Paul who is the minister of the Gospel unto the Gentiles. Here is Scriptural support:

For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. - Ephesians 5:30

Now, if we are members of His body, His flesh and His bones, then that must mean that we cannot fall out of Him. Right? You see Feedm3, Christ will never dismember His body. Christ will never pull chunks of flesh from out of His body. But by listening to you people who are against eternal security of the Christian believer in the church age, it seems that that's what you guys would be implying. Again, we are Baptized into Christ's body by the Holy Ghost at the very moment we get saved. Therefore, we are now part of Christ's body and we are in Christ's body. We are bone of His bone and we are flesh of His flesh. That is another reason why we are eternally secure. We are kept in Christ.

feedm3 said:

Correct. I will give you the definition of repent from the Merriam Webster's Dictionary, since I agree with it. Repent is: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life. That is the definition they gave and I am in agreement with that definition.

feedm3 said:

Read the above definition for repentance. Repent means to change your mind. Basically what you said. It is to have a change of direction. It is to even have a change of heart. To stop trying to get to heaven by your own self righteousness and by trusting in the righteousness of Christ. Yes, an UNSAVED person who is lost and on his way to hell must REPENT to be saved.

20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house,
21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. - Acts 20:20-21

Therefore an unsaved person must repent and believe on the Lord Jesus to be saved.

feedm3 said:

Why would a genuine Christian continue in Adultery though? Especially if His heavenly Father disciplines him and chastises him? Don't you think the chastisement and punishment would set that believer back into place? After all, for as many as God loves, he rebukes and chastens.

feedm3 said:

Of course obedience is required of the Christian. There are specific commands for the Gentile believer in the New Testament that are to be obeyed and heeded to. Even a baby Christian would understand that. Now let me ask you Feedm3, have you always obeyed every command in the Bible? And have you always obeyed them perfectly? Or has there been a time where you ave disobeyed as well? See, how easy it is to spot you double minded people who are against the Biblical doctrine of Eternal Security? Eternal Security is a Biblical doctrine, and that is why some of the most heated debates and discussions get started over it.

In fact, this important doctrine of the Bible is so important that it sets apart the difference between Bible believing Christianity and "professing" Christianity. And it also sets apart the difference between Bible believing Christianity and Christianity

Now your second question, you are going to have to expound a little bit more. Because a professing Christian can either be one of two things. He can be a true convert or a false convert. After all, there are false brethren that the Apostle Paul mentioned in his Pauline Epistles.

feedm3 said:

I did answer those. And now let me ask you a question, do you believe the unfaithful servant in Luke 12 was ever saved?

And if he ended up being cast into hell with the unbelievers, then what does that tell you?

Are you going to try to convince me that this parable is in reference to a born again believer in the Church Age who is justified, sanctified, and who is eternally kept by the power of God?

Now, if you believe this unfaithful servant was truly saved, then I believe that this parable is not a reference to the Church Age saint who is sealed by the Holy Ghost. Because Christians cannot lose their salvation since they are part of the Body of Christ and since they are flesh of His flesh and bone of His bone.

Now to end this particular reply, I will end and conclude by leaving you with a quote by Dr. Peter Ruckman who said it best for you people who doubt eternal security:

"You saved people who are always worried about losing your salvation, you're wasting your time, God's time and my time." - Dr. Peter Ruckman

Amen! I'll repeat what I quoted from Peter Ruckman with a little bit of paraphrase:

You Christians and saved people who are constantly and always worried about losing your salvation are not only wasting your time, but you're wasting God's time, and you're wasting my time.

RickyZ · Sep 23, 2012

feedm3 said:

Ah yes the single scripture theory.

Start with Hebrews 9, where the writer is talking about the Old Testament law in which each and every single time you sin you have to go sacrifice something for it. Oy vey. Finally comes Christ with a single sacrifice that covers it all, putting an end to all those individual sacrifices that used to cover your sin. And so the writer exhorts us to get on board with it and accept that sacrifice of Christ that covers all sin.

That's the setup for 10:26, wherein the writer then tries to explain that if we later turn back away from Christs sacrifice, there is no longer any other sacrafice to take away our sins. Ie, we can't say forget you Lord and go back to killing the prized bulls. No, if we turn away from Christs sacrifice, there's no other sacrifice we can we can turn to like in the old days. That is the point here, if you read the context surrounding the single verse.

ChosenbyHim · Sep 23, 2012

feedm3 said:

Feedm3, you're missing the point! Why would a Christian who is God's not repent? If he is a child of God and part of Christ's body, then why wouldn't he repent after being punished, disciplined, and chastised?

I will say this again, when a Christian sins, he should confess it immediately and repent of it. That way his fellowship with his Heavenly Father will be restored. A Christian that gets carnal and worldly will lose the joy of his salvation and he will lose fellowship with God the Father. But that same Christian will not lose his salvation.

Now getting to your question again about a "supposed" Christian living in Adultery who does not repent. I'll say this: someone who professes to be a Christian, yet lives in unrepentant sin, and who has no conviction from the Holy Ghost to forsake those sins (adultery being one of them), is simply a liar. That man certainly is not a Christian. Even you should know that feedm3. If a person is truly saved, then the Holy Spirit living inside that person would continually convict that person of that grievous sin which he is committing. And that Christian would soon realize his need to repent of such wickedness.

If a Christian sins today, then he needs to make things right with God today.

Again, read 1 Corinthians 3, and see how the church at Corinth was carnal. They were not walking after the Spirit.

Again, you asking such questions Feedm3, just shows that you have not studied your Bible.

feedm3 said:

Again Feedm3, your still missing the point! Why would a Christian live in adultery continually after he got saved? Why would he want to live in adultery after he has been justified, sanctified, and has been given the righteousness of Christ?

People like you are dangerous, and I mean that. People like you can deceive people, new born again Christians who do not know the Bible too well, into believing that they can lose their salvation if they sin just ONE time after they get saved. Or if they end up sinning at all after they get saved. When a Christian sins, he is to repent immediately and confess his sin to God. That way his fellowship with God the Father can be restored. There are many Christians today which are genuinely saved in Christ Jesus, but who are not walking with God, and these Christians are basically asleep concerning righteousness. And it is because they fail to walk after the Spirit. In other words, their fellowship with God the Father has been broken. And when a Christian sins, he needs to go to his Heavenly Father and repent and seek forgiveness for his sin. That way his fellowship God the Father may be reconciled. Now when you and I as Christians sin, we are still God's child, but we have a broken fellowship with our Heavenly Father.

That is why it is so important for a Christian believer to forsake, confess and repent of his sin right away. If you fall into sin as a Christian, repent of it immediately, and confess it, and get it under the blood.

We confess our sins to stay in fellowship with the Father.

feedm3 said:

See how double minded you are? I never said that. We are to live a crucified life with Christ after we get saved and we are to bear fruit. We are not to live in sin or live in fornication or live in adultery after we get saved. You are so desperate to convince me and other Christian believers on here that we can fall out of the body of Christ and lose our salvation that you would make absurd statements like that. Whether you like it or not Feedm3, we as Christians in the Church Age cannot fall out of the Body of Christ nor can we lose our salvation. Case closed.

feedm3 said:

Yeah, I have read that Scripture. And I am in total agreement with what the Apostle Paul said. It is people like you who don't know their Bible that would make such a false claim against a person like me who believes in Eternal Security and who defends it.

If a Christian commits a grievous sin like that, he will pay the consequences. For whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap. Again, read what happened to that carnal man in 1 Corinthians 5. His body was delivered to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, yet his spirit would be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Don't argue with me feedm3, if you have complaints about that, you better go and take that to God. I did not write the Scripture. And just because the sound Bible doctrine of Eternal Security does not suit your fancy does not give you a right to ignorantly deny it.

feedm3 said:

Where did I say yes to that? Can you show me? There is a difference between a professing Christian and a true Christian Feedm3. Let me ask you again, why would a genuinely saved, born again Christian continue living in Adultery after he gets saved? If a professing Christian shows no repentance, than what does that tell you Feedm3? I mean are you that anemic in your understanding of the Scriptures that you would not know the answer to that question?

Now what I did do was showed you what can happen to a carnal Christian who commits that grievous sin. Go and read 1 Corinthians 5.

feedm3 said:

No Feedm3. I just disagree with you on your ignorant stand against eternal security. On the contrary though, I am in total agreement with God and the Apostle Paul.

feedm3 said:

Well that is the thing Feedm3, you asked if a Christian could live in sin and still be saved. Notice that you did not say "professing" Christian. What you need to understand Feedm3, a Christian who sins will reap what he sows in this lifetime, and not only will he reap what he sows in this lifetime but if he lives carnally, it will also affect his millennial inheritance, his rewards at the judgment seat of Christ, it will affect his fellowship with the Father, it cause him to lose the joy of his salvation and even the ASSURANCE of his salvation. But a Christian will not lose his salvation.A Christian can lose many things in this life if he is not careful how he lives. But one thing he cannot lose is his salvation. Again, a Christian can lose the joy of his salvation and even the assurance of his salvation. But a Christian cannot lose his salvation because he is kept by the power of God (See 1 Peter 1:5), he is sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise (See Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30), he is part of Christ's Body, and he is a member of His flesh and of his Bone. (See Ephesians 5:30) There; once again, I gave you Scripture in order to give you strong Scriptural support in defending the Biblical Doctrine of Eternal Security.

feedm3 said:

I am dealing with your arguments Feedm3. And I am also showing how you are misapplying a passage in the book of Hebrews that is written to the Hebrews in the time of Jacobs trouble and how you are misapplying that same passage to a born again believer in the Body of Christ in the Church Age. You just cannot handle the facts nor can you handle the truth, that is why you continue to question the truth. You see Feedm3, I am giving you Scripture coming from the Apostle Paul who was a minister of the Gospel unto the Gentile believers in the Church Age. Your taking Scripture out of context, by taking Scripture that was primarily written to the Jews who will be living in the time of Jacobs trouble. You have already a mess of your own argument. Therefore you have no sound basis to fall back on. It is not too hard to refute someone who refuses to rightly divide the Bible into its divisions and dispensations. Not only did I give you my input, but I shared with you other people's input on the sound Biblical doctrine of Eternal Security. But of course, you won't even take the time to address those articles now will you? Why not? Maybe it is because the information in those articles are too much for you to bear. You will not address them since you cannot handle the truth nor the facts supporting eternal security.

feedm3 said:

I did address what seemed to be a contradiction of mine in that last post of mine, before working on this one. Go and take the time to read it. You want to talk about straw men and fake questions? You've been doing that all along Feedm3. And the reason why you've been doing this is because again, you cannot handle what the Bible clearly says and teaches in regard to a person possessing eternal salvation in Jesus Christ.

You just cannot handle it. And you know it too. Your puny attacks against the Bible doctrine of eternal security don't fool me. If you want to kid someone, go try to kid someone else. But you are not going to fool a Dispensationalist who knows how to rightly divide his Bible.

feedm3 said:

Well, you must need some help to explain to you what Hebrews 10:26 means if you keep attempting to apply it over to another dispensation in regards to the salvation of a church age saint. It just will not work.

feedm3 said:

No, I did not simply google this stuff to find my way out of some corner like you falsely claim. The information and the articles I am sharing with you, this is information I have known about for quite a while and it is just to further refute your ignorant and foolish arguments against the Born again Believer's eternal security. You see, if I can show you what someone else said about the matter, as long as they are supporting their arguments with Scripture. Then why not post them on here. Again, you just don't want to read them because you know it already refutes your position. Keep this in mind Feedm3, in order to properly understand the Bible, you must be a dispensaitonalist. If you do not rightly divide the word of God, then you have great reason to be ashamed.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Timothy 2:15 (King James Bible)

Well Feedm3, it seems like you have not been obeying this command of Scripture. Are you going to repent?

feedm3 said:

Feedm3, I could care less whether or not you cared about my opinion or not. I will give you Scripture, here is Scripture supporting Biblical preservation:

Proverbs 30:5-6, Psalm 12:6-7, 2 Timothy 3:15-17, Psalm 33:11, Psalm 100:5, Psalm 119:39, Psalm 119:140, Psalm 119:152, Psalm 119:160, Isaiah 40:8, Isaiah 55:11, Matthew 5:18, Matthew 24:35, 1 Peter 1:23, and 1 Peter 1:25.

Now there is some Scripture for you that supports the pure and divine preservation of God's word, the Holy Bible.

I recommend that you go and read and study those Scriptures.

feedm3 said:

Nope, I said that the King James Bible is the word of God. In fact, I said that it is the 100% inerrant, infallible and pure word of God.

And I said that you do not believe that it is the word of God since you think that the King James Bible has errors in it. So, I did not refute myself. You are just misquoting me, that's all.

feedm3 said:

Okay, how does a Christian's works being burned equate to a him losing his salvation?

It equates to him losing some of his rewards and suffering loss. But yet he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire. (See 1 Corinthians 3:15)

ChosenbyHim · Sep 23, 2012

feedm3 said:

Cool icon! But no, there is no circular reasoning here. The truth of the matter feedm3, is that you do not know how to rightly divide the Bible into its divisions and dispensations. And that is obviously evident by your ignorant attacks on the Bible doctrine of Eternal Security.

You guys who attack eternal security are always trying to get the cart ahead of the horse.

feedm3 said:

A passage in regard to what? Be specific as both of our responses are quite lengthy.

feedm3 said:

Huh? The car is not red? Well, I am repeating your error Feedm3, that is all I am doing. And until you acknowledge your error of not rightly diving the Bible. And I will only continue to repeat it until you fix it. Because you have not fixed that error of belief of yours yet.

feedm3 said:

And I said you are wrong because you simply are. There is more than one judgment. There are 7 major judgments in Scripture. The first judgment is the judgment at Calvary where Christ bore our sins. The judgment of God fell on Jesus Christ at Calvary to pay for your sins and my sins, and everyone else. (Read John 1:29, and Hebrews 2:9).

The first great judgment was the judgment of God against sin at Calvary where Jesus Christ who knew no sin, became sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. (Read 2 Corinthians 5:21). It is also where Christ suffered the just for the unjust.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: - 1 Peter 3:18

The second judgment is the Judgment of a son. The purpose of the second judgment is for forgiveness and cleansing. The second judgment is the daily, self judgment of the born again believer.

For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. - 1 Corinthians 11:31

It is self judgment of the believer. Now let me clarify something with you Feedm3, the first judgment determines whether you go to hell or not. And the second judgment determines whther or not you stay in fellowship with the LORD.

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. - Hebrews 12:6

A son can never be un born or un born again out of a family. Do you understand that Feedm3, do you? Now if you do not understand that, than it is pretty clear that you just do not understand Sonship. Now a son can get out of fellowship with his father, he can be punished, rebuked, chastened, and he can die. But he cannot get out of the family.

The self judgment of the believer gives him forgiveness and cleansing. If a Christian wants to stay in fellowship with the Lord, then he needs to confess his sins.

Once you trust Christ and Him alone, you are on your way to heaven and you will never lose your salvation. Now if you want to stay in fellowship with the LORD while on this earth, then you need to confess your sins and judge them. If a Christian takes for granted his need to repent and confess his sins daily then he will live a miserable Christian life. Don't get those two judgements and their purposes confused Feedm3, study to show thyself approved unto God. A workman that needeth not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)

Now the third judgment is The Judgment Seat of Christ and it is a totally different judgment from the Great White Throne Judgment. The Judgment Seat of Christ is for the Christian. The Great White Throne Judgment is for the lost and damned.

Now getting back to the Judgment Seat of Christ. The purpose of the Judgment Seat of Christ is for the Saints to be judged for their works. The Judgment Seat of Christ will take place in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:16). The basis for this particular judgment is to determine the rewards and the crowns which each believer will receive. (Read 1 Corinthians 3:14-15)

We do not get to heaven by works. We are not regenerated by works nor are we kept by works. But the very works which we commit after we get saved, those same works we will be judged for. (Read 2 Corinthians 5:10 and also Romans 14:10)

Every believer will have to stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ. We don't work to stay saved, we work because we are saved.

So stop confusing the Judgment Seat of Christ with the Great White Throne Judgment! These two judgments are NOT the same. In fact, these two judgements are approximately 1,007 years apart!

There are no unsaved dead at the Judgment Seat of Christ. The unsaved dead are at the Great White Throne Judgment though.

The Judgment Seat of Christ takes place before the 1,000 year millennial reign of Christ. The Great White Throne Judgment takes place after the 1,000 year Millennial reign of Jesus Christ.

At the Judgment Seat of Christ, no one goes into the Lake of Fire. At the Great White Throne Judgment, some body does.

To say that there is only judgment or to say that the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Great White Throne Judgment are the same is theological insanity as one Bible believing preacher put it so well.

Again, the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Great White Throne Judgment are not the same. They are two entirely different judgments. And the Judgment Seat of Christ determines whether or not a man gets rewards or loses rewards for his service for Jesus Christ after he was saved. We can not get saved by our works. We can only get saved by trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again, the first Judgement is God's judgment on sin at Calvary. The Second Judgement is God's chastening and discipline of a disobedient child who does not confess his sins. And the Third Judgment is the Judgment for the Christians service to the Lord Jesus after he gets saved. The first judgment determines whether you will go to heaven or hell, the second judgment determines whether or not you will live a victorious and happy Christian life or a miserable Christian life, and the third judgment determines whether you will get rewards or lose out on rewards for your service to the Lord after you got saved.

Now, the fourth Judgment is the Judgment on the Nation of Israel which will take place during the time of Jacobs trouble also referred to as the Tribulation Period. (Read Ezekiel 20:34-38 and Jeremiah 33:7)

The basis for this judgment is Israel's rejection of Christ (Read Luke 23:18 and 1 Samuel 8:7)

The final outcome and result of this fourth judgment will be that the Nation of Israel will accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah. It will result in their conversion to accepting the Lord. (Read Isaiah 66:8 and also Jeremiah 30:7)

The Fifth Judgment is the Judgment of the Nations.

This judgement is for the Gentile nations and it will take place at the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The basis for this Judgement will be the treatment of the Jews, and the result of this judgment will be the blessing of some of the nations and the punishment of the other nations. The Gentile Nations will be gathered before the Lord Jesus Christ, just as a Shepherd gathers His sheep. (Read Matthew 25:32 and Joel 3:2) In fact, I'll just give you the Scriptures:

I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land. - Joel 3:2

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: - Matthew 25:31-32

In this judgment, the Gentile Nations will be judged for how they treated Israel in the Great Tribulation.

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. - Matthew 25:40

The outcome of this Judgment is the damnation of the people who mistreated the Jews (Read Matthew 25:41)

And also the salvation of the people who took care of the Jews and blessed them during the Great Tribulation. (Read Matthew 25:34)

The sixth Judgment is the judgment of the fallen angels at the Great White Throne Judgment. (Read 1 Corinthians 6:3, 2 Peter 2:4, and also read Jude 6)

And we will be the ones that will judge the angels.

Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? - 1 Corinthians 6:3 (KJB)

And finally, the last and final Judgment, the seventh Judgment is the Great White Throne Judgment which is the Judgment of the lost sinner who rejected Jesus Christ.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. - Revelation 20:11-15

Therefore your statement about the Judgment Seat of Christ being the one and only judgment is false. And your idea that there is only one judgment is completely false as well.

And also, there is more than one resurrection. Despite of the fact that

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: - 1 Thessalonians 4:16

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. - Revelation 20:5-6

So feedm3, if there is only one resurrection like you falsely claim, then why would the Apostle John write in Revelation 20:5: "this is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection."

See how your argument is already falling apart? Your statement about there being ONE resurrection is not supported by Scripture. Therefore your statement is false.

And this is the final resurrection, which is the resurrection unto damnation:

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. - Revelation 20:13-15

Well, so much for your false argument about their being only one judgment and resurrection.

ChosenbyHim · Sep 23, 2012

feedm3 said:

No, I use Scripture to back up my statements. And I rightly divide the word of truth. Unlike you who just tries to lop everything together and who fails to obey the command in 2 Timothy 2:15!

feedm3 said:

Well, for one who worries so much about losing his salvation, it would seem that you trust more in your works to keep you saved, then you do in the power of God.

Remember we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise in this dispensation.

Funny how you like to accuse me of "digressing" away from the actual argument when you simply refuse to face the facts which I have given you in regard to the command to rightly divide the Bible found in 2 Timothy 2:15.

feedm3 said:

And I see your straw man against Eternal Security. What are you implying here? We are not able to keep our Salvation. It is God who is able to keep us. And He does keep us. Salvation is of God, not of us.

feedm3 said:

I am capable of focusing on the actual argument at hand. Your not able to face the facts nor the information I have given you. The very fact you wrong claim that there is only ONE judgment and resurrection just shows that your argument is totally contrary to Scripture.

feedm3 said:

No, you are wrong again. A duty which we are expected to do will not cause to be refused entrance into Heaven. A duty which we are expected to do and that we do not do, will cause us to have to answer for it at the Judgment Seat of Christ. (Read Romans 14:10)

Ever felt the Holy Ghost leading you to witness to a person standing right next you in the check out line? And you failed to do your duty to witness to that person, let me ask, have you ever done that before? Have you ever failed to do your duty to witness to a particular person who the Holy Ghost was leading you to talk to, and you failed to heed to the guidance of the Holy Ghost?

And if you have failed to witness to someone when you had opportunity to do so, will that cause you to go to Hell? Of course NOT! Your reasoning is so foolish. You will have to answer for it at the Judgment Seat of Christ, just like we all will. But it is NOT going to cause you to lose your salvation.

You really are confused when it comes to Church Age doctrine, that is for sure.

feedm3 said:

You are going to have to expound again on your question here. Jesus' words do apply to us. Doctrine from the Gospels can be heeded to for Instruction in righteousness and for discipleship. But you have to discern between commands given directly to Israel and commands given for the Gentile believer. Again:

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJB)

feedm3 said:

1000 different judgments? Huh? There are 7 major judgments. And these 7 major Judgments of God are found in the King James Holy Bible. And there have been other judgments in the Scriptures as well which are lesser judgments which have fallen upon nations, groups of nations and individual at different times. For instance, the time where God judged the world in the days of Noah and brought about the flood on the ungodly, yet Noah and his family were saved. The time where God judged the wicked cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, yet Lot and his family were saved, except for his wife since she looked back and got turned into a pillar of salt. And of course the time where God judged the world in the days of the Tower of Babel and scattered the people abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth.

feedm3 said:

Well, yes, I believe we are to repent and do the Lord's will. We should do our best to keep His commands. But keeping his commands won't save you. It is a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ that saves you. We do our best to keep His commands because we are saved and we should want to please our Heavenly Father. But you know that you have not always kept His commandments, and if you even try to say that you have perfectly kept His commandments, then you are a liar because no one could keep the entire law. The only man that could keep all the commandments and who could keep the whole law was the Lord Jesus Christ. And you better get that. You better not ever try to put your righteousness against the righteousness of God.

feedm3 said:

I am not going to answer that question until you address the information and facts which I have already given you. Either face the facts in the articles given and address them or else I don't have to answer anymore of your questions. I have answered enough of your questions, and you still refuse to accept the facts which I shared with you. And refuse to accept them because you cannot refute them, and you know it.

Bottom line is that your argument has already been refuted Feedm3, and not by me only.

Stop depending on your works to keep you saved and trust in the power of God to keep you.

feedm3 · Sep 23, 2012

Well if your just going to keep the stawman coming and not anser unless I address an artical you didnt even write, then you show me your out of gas, and have been defeated in that subject. Defeated because you could not properly defend what you teach without contradiction, you now choose to ignore.

So I will move on to your next error. The kingdom, the judgments, etc.

1. There is no such thing as a literal 1000 year reign.

Lets see where you get this from: Rev chapter 20:
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. <------Is the "key" and "great chain" literal, or figurative?

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, <-----Is it a literal "dragon" and "serpant"? Or figurative to describe Satan?

So is the 1000 years in this highly figurative passage literal or figurative?

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. <------ Literally a pit that has no bottom? So again the 1000 years? literal or figurative?

This "1000 years" is found in the 3 of the most figurative passages of the Bible, with dragons, serpents, keys, chains, bottomless Pitts, now why in the world would you conclude that all these are figurative, but the 1000 years is literal?

What in the text warrants that conclusion. Any one "who rightly divides the word of truth" can understand when to interpret literal language.

So apply II Tim 2:15, and rightly divide this chapter without the doctrine of man explaining it for you.

How come Paul and John wrote in "past tense", and said they were already inside the kingdom 2000 years ago?
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son <-----KJV, "translated" is in past tense, showing Paul thought he and the Col were arealdy translated into the kingdom. So how come you still are waiting for it?

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ <---- John wrote this in present tense, showing he thought he was in the kingdom when he wrote this passage.

This is because John warned, "repent the kingdom of heaven is AT HAND". AT HAND means near, reachable, not 2000+ years away. Did John and Jesus not understand the kingdom was not really AT HAND when they said this?

Your only defense here is to say, "AT HAND" does not always have to mean what it says.......like the rest of your false teachers do.

You have not even figured out the kingdom and the church Jesus built are ONE IN THE SAME - MAtt 16:18-19

Are you saying there are still JEWS alive from the time JESUS lived on earth in the flesh, waiting for the kingdom??
1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power

Let me guess, this does not mean what it says either, and the words are needed to be redefined? Right? Are you willing to do that to the ONLY "insprired KJV"?

Or at least read it, and stop ONLY listening to man. I am trying to help you as well. So at least consider the possibility you can be wrong.

Will you deny the ONLY "inspired" KJV and listen to the doctrines of man, who tell you the kingdom has not come, and Rev 20 is a pick and choose of literal and figurative interpretation??

Dont start googling anwsers yet, try and read it for yourself.

ChosenbyHim · Sep 24, 2012

feedm3 said:

Oh no Feedm3, I did not get defeated. By you ignoring to fix your error in regard to not rightly diving the Bible, you have failed to prove your argument against the Biblical Doctrine of Eternal Security. You just cannot do it. Eternal Salvation of the Christian in the Church Age is a Biblical doctrine.

And yea, that is correct. I did not write those articles. That's the point. If I can show you someone else who totally refutes your silly argument, then that is what I am going to do. No, I have properly defended this issue of eternal security in the Church Age. No, I already addressed what seemed to you as a contradiction. And I told you why I answered that question the way I did, so you cannot say that I overlooked it or ignored it. Read the last post, I did address it. In that post, I also refuted your FALSE statement about there being only ONE resurrection and judgment. For you to make such an ignorant statement shows that you do not your Bible too well.

feedm3 said:

Yes there is. It is in the Bible. Here let give you the Scriptures so you can read them:

11 And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
12 And the Lord shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.
13 Be silent, O all flesh, before the Lord: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation. - Zechariah 2:11-13 (KJB)

5 So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the Lord filled the house.
6 And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.
7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places. - Ezekiel 43:5-7 (KJB)

26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. - Ezekiel 37:26-27 (KJB)

21 And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the Lord, and to seek the Lord of hosts: I will go also.
22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord.
23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you. - Zechariah 8:21-23

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. - Revelation 20:4-6 (KJB)

These Scriptures show that the Lord Jesus Christ will be literally ruling and reigning from Jerusalem.

Now feedm3, if you cannot see that; then spiritually, you are just as blind as a bat.

feedm3 said:

Satan will be bound for a literal 1,000 years. And at that time when Satan is bound. The Lord Jesus Christ will be physically reigning on this earth for 1,000 years. And He will be reigning from Jerusalem.

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. - Psalm 2:2-9

Psalm 2 is another Prophecy of Scripture that will be fulfilled very soon.

feedm3 said:

First of all, what makes you think that the key and the chain is figurative? Why wouldn't you take them to be literal?

feedm3 said:

Well, obviously there are both figurative, symbolic, and literal elements to the book of Revelation. But the 1,000 year millennial reign is a physical reign. This time period is mentioned in other passages in the Scriptures such as Psalm 2, Isaiah 11:6-9, Isaiah 65:20-25, Ezekiel 43:7, Ezekiel 45:21-25, Zechariah 8:20-23, Zechariah 14:16-19.

So, what about these other passages of Scripture that refer to the millennial reign of Jesus Christ? Are you now going to assume that the detailed accounts in Ezekiel 45, Isaiah 11, Zechariah 14, and Psalm 2 are also just figurative?

Well Feedm3, I am waiting. You see Feedm3, by you assuming that the 1,000 year millennial reign of Jesus Christ is not a literal reign, just shows your carnality. And it shows your attempt of trying to nullify God's word with the doctrine of men. You need to compare Scripture with Scripture.

Just take God at His word and know that God meant what He said.

What is interesting about Zechariah 14:6-9 is that it is a Prophecy concerning when the Gentile nations will be keeping the Feast of Tabernacles in the Millennial Kingdom.

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. - Zechariah 14:16-19

So again, by reading this passage of the Scriptures, we can see that the kingdom of the Gentiles will have to keep the Feast of Tabernacles in the 1,000 year millennial reign of Jesus Christ. Right now, the Feast of Tabernacles is just for Israel.

And right now we as Christians are not required to keep the Jewish Feasts.

feedm3 said:

Well, yes we are translated into the kingdom of God's Son and we are children of light. But we are still awaiting the Rapture of the Church. Where we will get our glorified bodies.

Also, let me ask you, are you one of these people who thinks that the Church has replace Israel? I hope not. I hope you don't feed yourself on the false doctrine of replacement theology.

feedm3 said:

That is the importance of rightly diving the Bible. When Jesus was here, He preached the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven to the Jews. He offered the Kingdom to the Jews but they rejected him. And the Kingdom was a literal and physical Kingdom by the way.

Now after the Jews rejected Jesus and His offer of the physical Kingdom, the timing of this Kingdom was put off. And hence the Church Age was introduced.

feedm3 said:

No, the teachers of the Bible which I listen to and study under know how to rightly divide their Bibles and by the way they are dispensationalists.

What else do you deny, the pre-tribulation rapture? Notice I said "pre-tribulation" because the rapture occurs before the tribulation. Of course it is also called the catching away of the Church. The catching away of the Body of Christ.

feedm3 said:

What are you even talking about? If there is one thing that you are good at, you are good at not comparing Scripture with Scripture.

If you would just compare Scripture with Scripture, then you wouldn't be so messed up doctrinally.

feedm3 said:

Feedm3, I am not claiming to always be right. I have been wrong plenty of times in my life on many things, and I have needed to be corrected. But that's the key, I received the correction.
I have read it. And once I learned how to rightly divide the Scriptures, my understanding of the Scriptures grew tremendously by the power and grace of the Holy Spirit.

feedm3 said:

No, I will never deny the perfect, inerrant and infallible King James Bible. Of course you already did by claiming that it has "errors" in it. It does not have errors in it, it is completely perfect.

Googling answers? Huh? I have read those Scriptures for myself. No again, notice that I gave you several other Scriptures pertaining to the Millennial Kingdom. I will give them to you again before concluding this reply, here they are:

Psalm 2, Isaiah 11:6-9, Isaiah 65:20-25, Ezekiel 43:7, Ezekiel 45:21-25, Zechariah 8:20-23, Zechariah 14:16-19.

Now again, are ALL these Scriptures FIGURATIVE as well?

It is just your private interpretation that's gotten you into this doctrinal mess and outright heresy that you believe. If you deny the Physical and literal 1,000 year reign of Christ that will occur after the time of Jacobs trouble and after the Second Coming of Christ; then feedm3, you are indeed a heretic.

Eternal Security - If saved, always saved! Part 1. - By David Stewart

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