Yes, he predestined those that would be his Body. Ephesians 1 tells us that. "predestined to adoption"
Yea, if you replace "the Church" or "the believers" with "US" in Ephesians 1 it makes clear sense, for Paul is talking to a particular group, not 1 individual
"To the saints who are in Ephesus". It was God's sovereign plan to redeem a (a 1 people group) people unto Him. The saints in Ephesus are part of the people group, the saved.
So you caused your salvation?
No, what I mean by this is that I don't believe that God makes/forces anyone believe and have faith. If He did, then it wouldn't be our belief or our faith it would be Gods. That would make it like God giving a gift and God receiving the gift. God enables us (everyone) through His HS to believe, it's conditional, we have the responsibility to accept it. Ephesian 1:13-14 explains this:
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. We have to hear, trust(have faith) and believe, God doesn't do these things for us. He opens the door and gives all of us the opportunity (this all God), but we have the ability to respond 1 of 2 ways. For example: Say my Dad bought me a house, he worked for it and paid it in full. I did nothing to purchase it or to deserve it, I did no work to obtain it, but I still had to accept it. The Calvinist or individual-predestination view is that even if I didn't want that house, my father came and tied me up and forced me to live in it against my will.
Lets look at a few more biblical verses: (my comments in parentheses)
Proverbs 8:35
For whoever finds me finds life,
And obtains favor from the Lord; (Not who I(God) chose will find Me(God))
John 12:32
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” (I don't see any qualifier that suggests "all" is the elect. Was Jesus was just talking to His elect in this context?).
2 Corinthians 5-18-19
Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us (the elect, believers) to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us (the elect) the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world (Kosmos, not just His elect) to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us (the elect, believers) the word of reconciliation. ( I think that this passage suggests that God is reconciling the whole creation unto Himself, not just the elect. But this doesn't not support universalism because we have other scripture that flat out refutes that).
Hebrews 2:9
But we are able to see Jesus, Who was ranked lower than the angels for a little while, crowned with glory and honor because of His having suffered death, in order that by the grace (unmerited favor) of God [to us sinners] He might experience death for every individual person.(AMP) ( don't see the election here either).
Proverbs 28:14
14 Happy is the man who is always reverent,
But he who hardens his heart will fall into calamity. (this suggests to me that we harden our own hearts, but of course there is always exception to the norm).
"Choice" in the sense of, "God chose me, but I can reject him", then no. If God regenerates a man, God owns him. Scripture attests to that.
There maybe always an exception to the norm, but I contend still that if God chooses me it's because I gave up my will for His, He enabled me to make that choice. And I agree with you that once saved always saved. My brain is becoming sauce now. I need to take a break.
Yes, but you would not be able to put your complete trust in him at all without him. You can't claim any credit, because it is totally a work of God. In an ultimate sense, God works through you, not you through him.
We can still give Him all the credit and still claim that God gave us the ability to choose. A great example of this is the exchange God and Cain had in Genesis 4:6-7,
6 So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” Clearly God is telling Cain he can choose to do well or choose not to do well and that he has the ability to choose well in the last phrase of verse 7. In that same sense we have the ability to choose Christ (life) or death(sin).
False Dichotomy. If I can wave a "magic wand" and change their will, then would they not willingly love?
Yes, but like programed robots. Is that what God did and wants? Programed love? Being made in God's image, doesn't this mean in part that we are made with the ability to think, reason, to will, desire and choose?
Do you really think that those who believe Ephesians 1 speak of predestination (and paul wasn't just pulling our leg) think that the regenerate man has the same will of the unregenerate? That the regenerate many rather begrudgingly follows God, and loves God? In a "well, I don't want to, but you said so, so I will" attitude? If that is what you think, you know little of the Grace that is oh so irresistible.
Where does it say in God's word that God's grace is irresistible so some and not to others?
Don't forget the parable of the two sons, one son begrudgingly didn't want to work in the field, but did it anyway. The other son said I'll go work in the field and never did. Which one loved the father more? The son who did work in the field didn't do it out of irresistible grace, but out of a contrite heart.
Without God acting within them, they have no chance to begin with. God says so himself.
John 6:44
44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
I agree, but it doesn't go that far to say that God doesn't work in the unsaved at all or that God doesn't draw everyone. This just simple means that God does the work in wooing us into a relationship with Him. We still have the option to tell Him to get lost and that who Jesus was actually talking to, those who rejected him. They didn't want to hear, it's not that they couldn't hear. Jesus was wooing them that very moment. Any and all light we are given comes from God, but we are held accountable on how we respond to it. How can God justly punish those whom he never calls to salvation then, for they are not responsible for their disbelief, in your view God is.
Matt. 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! Does this sound like a God who predestines people to hell? sorry for the bold font 
They were not willing, Not, "but I(Jesus) am not willing to open their eyes."
As you know well from elementary school, the word "can" is not a word of permission, rather, ability. No one is able to come to me, unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. So no, scripture tells us it is not wrong on God's part. Also, who says God is obligated to give everyone an equal chance? Scripture certainly doesn't demand it. If scripture does demand it, then it seems he stands condemned, there are many who do not have the word of God. Many who have never heard the Gospel preached. Many who never have, and never will. Yet, salvation comes through the preaching of the word.
Those who have not heard the gospel are not of excuse, for they too, have been wooed by God. For all of us has the light of creation within us as we look around the universe and
can see there is a creator! (doesn't mean they will see, remember the grammar lesson you gave me) All though some or most out of their own foolishness don't want to recognize this. For every effect there has to be a cause that is equal or greater then itself. So not only is the knowledge of the God written in the Universe in large, but in small written on our consciousness. Thus we have an outer witness and an inner witness. The human race, has 2 witnesses, in which God can hold everyone accountable. God calls these two witnesses heaven and earth, in Deuteronomy 31:28, to be the 2 witnesses against the Israelites in the wilderness. And again in Deuteronomy 32:1, calling on the heavens and earth to hear, meaning the super natural and earthly natural creation bears witness to God.
The same goes for the Law and prophets regarding old Israel, for the law represents Christ and the Prophets is God's words through men of His calling, calling men to repentance. These are the 2 witnesses in Revelation 11 as Elijah as the prophets representative and Moses as the representative of the law, which is perfectly presented to us in the account of the transfiguration on the mount (another topic I know) that bear witness against Jerusalem. Today, we have 2 witness as well, not only the heaven and earth, the spiritual and natural, but also Christ(the word) and His church. Romans 1, 2 and 3 explains this.
Romans 1, 19-20
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,(who suppress the truth? God or Man? Man does.) 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them (the inner witness), for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
God will render to each of us according to our deeds,according to each man's heart, not according to whom God individual picks for salvation.
Romans 2:5-6
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds” 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,(I see no predestination here, God fully holds everyone responsible for their actions and the amount of light they received).
In verse 11
For there is no partiality with God.
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
So yes, it is possible that people who hear not the law or gospel can be saved according their conscience and their thoughts, which either accuse or excuse them. So once some hears the law or gospel then God holds them even more responsible, not not only do they have God creation telling them, and their inner morality, but now also His Word and the Church.
But if you respond the light given you (in which you become a seeker of God), God will give you more light. The problem here is that men love darkness rather then light, and seek their own pleasure. It's not a matter of whom God hand picks for salvation, but who honestly seeks after truth.
If God predestines His elect from the beginning of time, why bother evangelize? For our reward? I don't serve God for my reward, I serve out of love and what He did for me.
Ephesians 1 speaks to predestination of the individual. "Us" is a noun used to designate a group of individuals. Even a crowd is made up of individuals.
Once you are in a group or crowd, you are no longer alone or an individual. Your statement sounds contradicting.
Do you study much in regards to regeneration?
Yes, please don't insult me this way. He wooed me, He died for me, He arose to give me hope and to affirm His promise, and perhaps He softened my heart. He did all these things and more. But doesn't that mean I'm not able to say YES to Him and that I am unable to AGREE with Him. Once someone accepts the gift of atonement, they are regenerated. I realize this is a complex issue and I admit I don't understand it complete...and if you do, more power to yah...It not really worth debating, IMO.
If you're going to acknowledge what scripture says, you cannot believe that regeneration has ever been something you do.
I'm coming the end of my rope here, so if you made this far, you're better then me.. I don't believe regeneration is something we do, we just ask for it authentically! and receive it. Then God begins the process of inward sanctification. Did you ask Christ to come into your heart, be you Lord and savior, ask God for forgiveness? Aren't these your actions upon receiving Christ and His promises? Or did you simply not have to say anything.
If you make it all the way through my post, Gold stars for you.
Thank you, is this something we can agree to disagree on? Or do you claim unless I see it your way that I can not be saved because I claim to have made a decision?
Just because God is all sovereign doesn't mean he causes or is the agent of everything. Does God will one man to the murder of an other? Was God the agent of that man to sin to murder another? If God wills everything to happen, then we have a problem.
Salvation comes by grace through faith. Grace is God's part; faith is man's part.
God bless, I'm burnt out on this...May God's peace and love be upon you Jimmy.
