Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?

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Sep 8, 2012
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The second death.
Eternal separation.
But you already knew that, so I can't understand why you would ask
unless out of some further contention that you think you can prove.

Your argument has been beaten, just resign to the fact and deal with it.
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,004
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i know we should always use scripture to interpret scripture and when truth is illuminated,it would be right to except it and thank GOD that his servants furthered the kingdom,and if your understanding was rejected with (scripture)admit it ,and thank GOD.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
So..... Part of the question was finally answered. OK! So mankind is saved from the second death. And we know, according to the word of God that the second death is the following;

Rev.21
[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Now that we know that the 'second death' is being cast into the lake of fire let's address the other part of the question;


What caused mankind to need a savior from the second death? Did man do something that caused the need of a savior?


Also...let's again read who it is that will be cast into the lake of fire, or who is it that will suffer the second death;

"...But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars..."

So now we are getting a very clear picture of who it is God is going to cast into His lake of fire; SINNERS!

Now let's go back to the word of God for more wisdom and understanding.....

Rev.22
[14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


God's word tells us those that BREAK His commandments will have to die the 'second death', which we just read means that they will be cast into God's lake of fire!

God's word also tells us that those that KEEP His commandments will have a right to the tree of life and allowed entrance into His holy city!


And some claim that....
"Your argument has been beaten,..."

But getting back to the other part of the question....


What caused mankind to need a savior from the second death? Did man do something that caused the need of a savior?


.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
Years ago a pastor asked if I had decided to turn my life around to follow Christ. I told him I had. Then I was asked if I had stopped drinking, listening to music and stopped going to clubs and a whole list of other activities. I told him I had not. He then told me I had to stop doing certain things if I wanted to follow Christ.

I then asked where can I find what things I can and cannot do so that I can follow Christ according to God's word..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... I'm still waiting!


When new believers first come to Christ, most are told they must change their lifestyle. To those that teach new believers this I ask, Where do you guide them to find what is required to follow Christ? And is this change needed for salvation?


Because if a change is not needed for salvation....then why change?


.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
So..... Part of the question was finally answered. OK! So mankind is saved from the second death. And we know, according to the word of God that the second death is the following;

Rev.21
[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Now that we know that the 'second death' is being cast into the lake of fire let's address the other part of the question;


What caused mankind to need a savior from the second death? Did man do something that caused the need of a savior?


Also...let's again read who it is that will be cast into the lake of fire, or who is it that will suffer the second death;

"...But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars..."

So now we are getting a very clear picture of who it is God is going to cast into His lake of fire; SINNERS!

Now let's go back to the word of God for more wisdom and understanding.....

Rev.22
[14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


God's word tells us those that BREAK His commandments will have to die the 'second death', which we just read means that they will be cast into God's lake of fire!

God's word also tells us that those that KEEP His commandments will have a right to the tree of life and allowed entrance into His holy city!


And some claim that....


But getting back to the other part of the question....


What caused mankind to need a savior from the second death? Did man do something that caused the need of a savior?


.
For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

There are NON righteous, no not one

Without redemption, there can be no forgiveness. Redemption comes by blood. Not by being good.

If we break the least of the law we are guilty of the whole law.

The people God said in revelations which would suffer the second death. That is me you and everyone who ever walk the earth, Unless we are washed by the blood of Christ and cleansed by the word.

If your trying to get there by being "good enough" you will utterly fail for you are already guilty.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
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well,,,,the same thing,,,,I've listened to this since ad31the Jew beats out the words to prove that he was not the Messiah,,,the christian is fed to the lion,,,"well if",,,,and "should you?",,,,,,recon it with your whole heart,,,,,,,the same thing you decide today is the same that your fathers before you decided about it at the cross,,,,,,,,was it?,,and was he?,,,,,,,or should we remain still and do?,,,,
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
here I will help the other,,,,,it is not that you are no longer required to make an blood sacrifice to the father,,the turtle dove,,,or the daily,,,you are still required to sound the seven trumpets,,,and at the end the son was to be offered for you at the cross,,,,,,,,,,yet but now after you have done and the lord has done his work,,,,you rethink your works to see that you have left no stone unturned,,,"you doubt the final work",,,and the final work is grace,forgiveness for you not accomplishing the former works,,,,you see the law,,good or bad,,right or wrong,,,yes or no,,,Christ is not at war with the sacrifices,,,,,,,,,,,,,he is the final one,,,,,,,,,
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
You logic is flawed and your "pastor" sounds legalistic and should have shown you these Bible verses:

2 peter 1
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.


Years ago a pastor asked if I had decided to turn my life around to follow Christ. I told him I had. Then I was asked if I had stopped drinking, listening to music and stopped going to clubs and a whole list of other activities. I told him I had not. He then told me I had to stop doing certain things if I wanted to follow Christ.

I then asked where can I find what things I can and cannot do so that I can follow Christ according to God's word..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... I'm still waiting!
why? why don't you just read the whole Bible and pray and ask God's Holy Spirit. Why don't you learn Precept upon Precept what God has to teach you?

When new believers first come to Christ, most are told they must change their lifestyle.
???? Really??? sorry I was never told that.

To those that teach new believers this I ask, Where do you guide them to find what is required to follow Christ? And is this change needed for salvation?


Because if a change is not needed for salvation....then why change?
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You change because God has changed your heart and you have been born again. You change because you walk with the Holy Spirit and show the fruits of love, patience, joy, gentleness, peace, kindness and self control. You change because GOD has placed within you His laws and His love and given you His forgiveness.

Change is not required for salvation, its evidence of God's work in your life.

You can't help but change if you have been saved and cleansed by the Blood of the Lamb. You can't help but shine forth God's light and love if you walk daily with the Holy Spirit.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
Change is not required for salvation,
Cool....so I can continue to steal, lie, commit fornication, disrespect my parents, get drunk and STILL look forward to entering into God's kingdom!

As long as I believe and have faith all is good with God!


Then why would Paul tell us the following?

1 Cor.16
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And who were those that did these things?

[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul tells us that the above acts had to be stopped! Otherwise....if continued....the kingdom of God would NOT be inherited!

Does this sound like Paul is telling them change is not needed for salvation? Of course not!

Let's read what actions are able to save you of dying the second death;

James 1
[21] Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.


After you have been taught the word of God....then believe and have faith in those words you have been taught what comes next?

James 1
[22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
[23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
[25] But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

You have to do and obey those words you now believe and have faith in. Why? Because if you obey God's words and do them you will receive salvation.


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E

Eccl12and13

Guest


Without redemption, there can be no forgiveness. Redemption comes by blood. Not by being good.

[/B]

Ok.....So Jesus came to redeem mankind. Why did Jesus have to come to redeem mankind? What did man do that caused him to have to be redeemed by the blood of Jesus?

And whatever it was that caused mankind to need redemption, does man continue to do the same act that caused the need for redemption after he has been saved?


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B

blink69nix0

Guest
For me yes, Although we are saved by GOD's grace and mercy. We are GODs children, Our Father who is in heaven is perfect and HOLY and so are we Although we aren't perfect but if you love GOD more than anything else in this world. We should follow him and be HOLY while waiting for his return.

These verses really struck me and I want it to try not by saying but actions. The Scripture says " If you love me then follow/keep my commandments. These are the words that i tied on my neck and put it in my heart. Because I love GOD so much. I can't live without him and I am so helpless/miserable if GOD abandon me. I am dependent on him. I want to serve him wholeheartedly. I awe him my life and everything. I want to know and see him without any doubts/confuse in my heart. I want to be pure only for him.

I'm just very lucky that i feel this way coz he says one of the verses "his spirit rest upon my soul". I am very honored and very privileged GOD rested upon my poor soul.If God judged by his standard of perfection. There is no escaped my soul would definitely thrown in hell. I can't denied that I committed sins based from the 10 commandments. My soul would be tear apart little by little if GOD set his standard. Because of his loved for Humankind he sent his beloved son just to saved us from sins coz no one will endure the sins of the world except JESUS. He suffered and sacrificed for all sins in this world so that his son is our role model to perfection.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
Well readers......let's not stop here. Let's answer the rest of the questions......

Ok.....So Jesus came to redeem mankind. Why did Jesus have to come to redeem mankind? What did man do that caused him to have to be redeemed by the blood of Jesus?
And whatever it was that caused mankind to need redemption, does man continue to do the same act that caused the need for redemption after he has been saved?
Readers.......After you have been taught the word of God....then believe and have faith in those words you have been taught, what comes next?

James 1
[22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
[23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
[25] But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

You have to do and obey those words you now believe and have faith in. Why? Because if you obey God's words and do them you will receive salvation.

Now let's read again what, along with faith in Jesus, brings about salvation.....

James 1
[21] Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.


Readers.....Christ came to earth to save mankind. Christ gave BACK salvation to all of the world with the shedding of His blood. We ALL now have access to the kingdom of God. But......will ALL receive salvation? Will ALL of mankind enter into God's kingdom? No!

So what is it that separates those that will make it into the kingdom from those that will die the second death? Let's read God's words AGAIN.......

Rev.21
[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Those that continue to commit sin will NOT enter therein......

Rev.22
[14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

And those that do their best at keeping God's laws WILL enter therein!


YES! We ALL have been saved by the blood of Jesus. But as you can clearly read above.....ALL will not enter into His kingdom.


.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Ok.....So Jesus came to redeem mankind. Why did Jesus have to come to redeem mankind? What did man do that caused him to have to be redeemed by the blood of Jesus?

And whatever it was that caused mankind to need redemption, does man continue to do the same act that caused the need for redemption after he has been saved?


.

No the important question is can man stop doing what caused him to need redeemed.

Romans 7 and 1 john 1 tells us no. which is why we need grace until the day we die.

if we say we are without sin, we are fooling ourself and there IS NO TRUTH IN US.

so are you sinless?


second, since blood has to be shed to forgive all sin, and christ died 2000 years ago. how can future failure cause us to fall? Christ had to die for those too or we can not be forgiven of those sins.
 
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E

Eccl12and13

Guest
Readers....

When a person decides to give their life to Christ and follow Him is there a change that MUST occur in their lives? Can they continue to walk in their old ways and expect God's kingdom as their reward?

Again..let's go to the writings of Paul....

[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul tells us if we are to expect the kingdom of God we need to stop committing sins!

Why would he tell us this if it were not needed?

Does it make sense that a person can continue in sin and YET expect to inherit the kingdom of God?


.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
And now back to the question.....


Ok.....So Jesus came to redeem mankind. Why did Jesus have to come to redeem mankind? What did man do that caused him to have to be redeemed by the blood of Jesus?



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C

cfultz3

Guest
Does it make sense that a person can continue in sin and YET expect to inherit the kingdom of God?
May I just add that stopping one's particular sins of their rebellion is not a work of the Law, but a work of the Spirit. That is, we do not stop sinning because the Law of Ordinances says we must, but that the Spirit tells us of God's will and by obedience to His Voice, we, therefore, have works of faith. So, I guess faith does have it works which is not be me mixed with the works of the Law.

Unlike the works of the Law wherein one was blessed physically, the works of the Spirit leads to heavenly rewards. So, the works of the Spirit is for reward and not salvation. As for me, I will do the works of the Spirit (that which He tells me), knowing all the more I shall be blessed.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
wow what a way to take a person's words out of context....

want to see how it works with yours?

Cool....so I can continue to steal, lie, commit fornication, disrespect my parents, get drunk!
so you are promoting people to steal and lie!!! HOW DARE YOU PREACH SUCH THINGS!!!!......

now you can continue to torch your strawman or you could actually read what I said.

"You change because God has changed your heart and you have been born again. You change because you walk with the Holy Spirit and show the fruits of love, patience, joy, gentleness, peace, kindness and self control. You change because GOD has placed within you His laws and His love and given you His forgiveness.

Change is not required for salvation,
its evidence of God's work in your life.

You can't help but change if you have been saved and cleansed by the Blood of the Lamb
. You can't help but shine forth God's light and love if you walk daily with the Holy Spirit. "
 
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L

laser

Guest
Readers....

When a person decides to give their life to Christ and follow Him is there a change that MUST occur in their lives? Can they continue to walk in their old ways and expect God's kingdom as their reward?

Again..let's go to the writings of Paul....

[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul tells us if we are to expect the kingdom of God we need to stop committing sins!

Why would he tell us this if it were not needed?

Does it make sense that a person can continue in sin and YET expect to inherit the kingdom of God?


.

because Jesus is our righteousness. if we did not sin, we would not need Jesus. as paul said, it is not that we sin on purpose because we know we are saved. we sin because the old man, the old nature is still with us to a certain extent.

ROM 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

as far as rewards for our works, i believe it just as some sins are greater than others, so is salvation. as Paul said, the heathen shall be judged by what they knew. so will be our rewards....... me? i will be grateful to be a doorman in heaven than a king in hell.
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
There is power in the blood.
It's transference is evident (nice word, anariel and, whole sentence, and, Galatians verse(s) pull :) , there, 'evidence,' excellent, milady)

Regardless of if we're docrinally sameness on this ecc, you've guided very well throughout your entire thread .

The power of God is 'great,' and, His power works in us greatly, just like God raising His Son by ,'His power.'

Yes, indeed, works don't secure our salvation, but, they, indeed, are important as can be (important), and, let'' echo, keeping ourselves following the 10 commandments, which we can do no problem, as the Spirit of God leads us to he able to overcome all Satan's tests and temptations and demons sickly-sweet enticings.

How can I do that green, my flesh is at war with my wanting to do God thibgs inside me(heart).
Remember, greater is He who is in me than he (Satan) who is in the world.

You do it by His power, which you can use to cast out demons 1 John 4: 1-4, and, Christ peeps, God's imputed power in you CAN be used/tapped for so many more 'good' things, and, God will be right there in your temple orcghestrating every vibe (current) of faith you act onONIMPULSE:)
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,363
6,652
113
The reply to this question is simple, not a laborious and intricate labyrinth of new how-to's, do's and don't's.

There is no sin in obedience, obedience is more than sacrifice to Yahweh, God. You know this, and I know this.

God likens disobedience to idolatry.

My best answer is simply this, obey the teachings of Yeshua, Jesus, and you will have obeyed all the commandments. They are all included in the great two laws of Love.

Any further discussion is of no avail, and could be counted as confusion of a very simple teaching from Jesus. I hope this is understood in Love, the Love that is Jesus, Yeshua, amen.

Anyone misconstruing this message and post as teaching a departure from the Gospel is to be pitied. May Yahweh, God, teach the true Way in Jesus, Yeshua to any of these, amen.
 
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