Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?

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A

Ariel82

Guest
Total misappropriation of scripture......
How can you debate someone who reads the exact same words but comes up
with an 180 degree, polar opposite conclusion?
I can't understand them for you.
lol because its not debating, its praying and spending time with another person as God works in their heart and reveals His truth to them. Its worth it when you see the light of understanding dawn.

ever think upon these verses?

2 Peter 1:19-21

New King James Version (NKJV)

19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed,[a] which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,[b] 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God[c] spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.


don't be discouraged, God has it under control ;) Just remember Rev 22.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
I get the feeling subtle is wasted upon you and you would prefer bluntness when receiving answers...

Yes.....I was saying the following....

Let's read of some laws, that if done, will NOT allow one to enter into God's kingdom.....

Rev.22
[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
take a minute to read and pray about these scriptures....

1 Timothy 1


12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting
me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise,[a] be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

Now let's read what is needed to enter into God's kingdom....

Rev.22
[14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.



So....would it be fair to say that man is yet under some type of law that must be obeyed?



.
yes the Law of the SPIRIT which is different from the Law of Sin and Death.
would you like to discuss the differences?
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
Jesus died for me. This is true. So instead of my having to shed my blood for my sins...Jesus shed HIS blood for my sins. Jesus did that for ALL of mankind. That is what grace is...the shedding of Jesus blood. His blood is what removed the curse that was brought upon ALL men by the sin of Adam.

And what was the curse? Having to die the second death if blood was not shed. And seeing that ALL have sinned...then, had Jesus not shed His blood, then ALL would have had to shed their blood for their sins...for ALL have sinned. And then WHO would have been saved?

So the shedding of Jesus blood means that we do not have to shed our blood....IF we believe that He came to die for and AND we obey His words. And what are His words? Everything from Gen. to Rev.!

"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

So..... Now that ALL of mankind have access back to the kingdom of God does man go BACK to breaking God's laws?

God forbid!


.


.
 
Sep 8, 2012
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Here Ecc. - I posted it again: (it was on page 14 posred about an hour ago; actually there are two posts)


Re: Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?
I'll go ahead..........
'Is Keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for eternal life?'
Don't you see the misappropriation of works we can ever do in place of the
finished perfect life and obedient death of the Messiah?
In your posts, I have gathered that you believe the works of the believer in this life somehow save him/her.
There is nothing you or I could ever do from here on out to save ourselves.
Sanctification is a work of the same Holy Spirit that resided without measure in Jesus Christ.
It goes well beyond the law or what we could ever do.
Even if everything we did from here on out was perfectly guided by the Spirit.......
without the propitiation of His perfect Life given for us.......we would burn in hell
like Hitler.


Re: Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?
I don't know how much clearer I can make it than that.

Is keeping the commandments of God necessary for eternal life?

NO!

BECAUSE WE'D NEVER BE ABLE TO DO IT!!!
 
May 30, 2012
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Here Ecc. - I posted it again: (it was on page 14 posred about an hour ago; actually there are two posts)


Re: Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?
I'll go ahead..........
'Is Keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for eternal life?'
Don't you see the misappropriation of works we can ever do in place of the
finished perfect life and obedient death of the Messiah?
In your posts, I have gathered that you believe the works of the believer in this life somehow save him/her.
There is nothing you or I could ever do from here on out to save ourselves.
Sanctification is a work of the same Holy Spirit that resided without measure in Jesus Christ.
It goes well beyond the law or what we could ever do.
Even if everything we did from here on out was perfectly guided by the Spirit.......
without the propitiation of His perfect Life given for us.......we would burn in hell
like Hitler.


Re: Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?
I don't know how much clearer I can make it than that.

Is keeping the commandments of God necessary for eternal life?

NO!

BECAUSE WE'D NEVER BE ABLE TO DO IT!!!
Have you noticed that the author of the thread hardly mentions faith in Jesus, or the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit in our lives, and the Spirit is the power in our life, through whom we have power
 
Sep 8, 2012
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If you think you can follow God's law perfectly because you are enlightened and full of the Spirit
that gives you the power to overcome then fine.
Have at it.
I say you'll still sin, and even with all your conscious law following you will still need a savior....for all the ones you missed,
and the secret sins you didn't even know you had.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
where do you get this people shedding their blood for their sins part?

didn't you just finish saying in the OT they shed the blood of ANIMALS to be made blameless of their sins?

I'm going to pray and read your post again....
Jesus died for me. This is true. So instead of my having to shed my blood for my sins..
stop right there, where do you get this IN Scripture? the concept of shedding YOUR blood for YOUR sins?

.Jesus shed HIS blood for my sins. Jesus did that for ALL of mankind. That is what grace is...the shedding of Jesus blood.
no not even close to what grace is. Grace is receiving something we didn't earn, grace is receiving eternal life even though we are sinners because of the mercy shown to us by God for Jesus died on the cross to Redeem sinners.

His blood is what removed the curse that was brought upon ALL men by the sin of Adam.

And what was the curse? Having to die the second death if blood was not shed. And seeing that ALL have sinned...then, had Jesus not shed His blood, then ALL would have had to shed their blood for their sins...for ALL have sinned. And then WHO would have been saved?

So the shedding of Jesus blood means that we do not have to shed our blood....IF we believe that He came to die for and AND we obey His words. And what are His words? Everything from Gen. to Rev.!

"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

So..... Now that ALL of mankind have access back to the kingdom of God does man go BACK to breaking God's laws?

God forbid!
answer clearly, what does the Bible mean when it talks of the Law of sin and death?
 
Sep 8, 2012
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Have you noticed that the author of the thread hardly mentions faith in Jesus, or the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit in our lives, and the Spirit is the power in our life, through whom we have power


Well Newcovenant,..........legalists never can.......
that's the only card they hold you see.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
can we discuss this passage?

Romans 7

New King James Version (NKJV)

Freed from the Law

7 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
Who do you think is the woman? who is she married too first? the law. what law? the law of sin and death, but what happened too the law? it dead through the body of Christ...so what happens now? she can marry another? who does she marry? the SPIRIT of God. Not the oldness of the letter, that died and no longer holds us but the NEWNESS of the SPIRIT and walking with the Holy spirit THAT is what holds us and WHO we are now married to. Not the laws given to Moses but the PROMISE given to Abraham and his SEED who is CHRIST JESUS.

do you know what the Promise is?
 
Sep 8, 2012
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BAM! There goes Ariel Attack with the unadulterated truth again!
There are so many verses about how God freed us from the law of sin and death
through the finished work of the Messiah!
It staggers the imagination to think on it!
Here's another:
"the letter killeth; but the Spirit giveth life"
How?
How could that be?
Maybe by writing it(the Word) on the tables of our own hearts.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
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can we discuss this passage?



Who do you think is the woman? who is she married too first? the law. what law? the law of sin and death, but what happened too the law? it dead through the body of Christ...so what happens now? she can marry another? who does she marry? the SPIRIT of God. Not the oldness of the letter, that died and no longer holds us but the NEWNESS of the SPIRIT and walking with the Holy spirit THAT is what holds us and WHO we are now married to. Not the laws given to Moses but the PROMISE given to Abraham and his SEED who is CHRIST JESUS.

do you know what the Promise is?
I think the last line is very telling... many confuse the Law of Moses with the Commandments of Yahvah God.

The Holy Spirit would not be leading anyone to speak against Keeping the 10 Commandments of Yahvah God.







Romans 7
King James Version (KJV)
7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
[/QUOTE]

Yahshua the Messiah taught:





<< Matthew 5 >>
King James Version
1And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: 2And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

5Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

8Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

9Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

10Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

13Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

31It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

33Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


Paul is saying that Yahshua the Messiah fulfills the Law of Moses and now that Law is fulfilled,one will not commit wrong by marrying Yahshua the Messiah.
 
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May 30, 2012
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where do you get this people shedding their blood for their sins part?

didn't you just finish saying in the OT they shed the blood of ANIMALS to be made blameless of their sins?

I'm going to pray and read your post again....
stop right there, where do you get this IN Scripture? the concept of shedding YOUR blood for YOUR sins?

no not even close to what grace is. Grace is receiving something we didn't earn, grace is receiving eternal life even though we are sinners because of the mercy shown to us by God for Jesus died on the cross to Redeem sinners.



answer clearly, what does the Bible mean when it talks of the Law of sin and death?
No one could obey the law, so they had to sin under it, and to Paul that led to death, he felt condemned because he could not obey THE TEN COMMANDMENTS(we're speaking of pre his conversion to Christianity)
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
Did Paul teach and preach the keeping of God's laws?

Simple question. Either he did or he did not!



.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
Did Jesus teach and preach the keeping of God's laws?

Again...a simple question with only one answer.



.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Something to meditate on;

Do we give because we seek reward? If so then are motives are for ourselves.

Do we love because we require it back? If so, our motives are for ourselves.

Does God's love have condition? If not, then should we not be in his image fully?

Do we live a life of Godliness only to receive what is waiting for us? If so, then we do not live for God, but for ourselves.

Is it right to give, only to ask 'look what I have given, where is my place?'

Should we believe in the ways of Jesus only so that when the time comes we can say 'look, I have believed'?

The reason Jesus spoke of 'depart from me, I never knew you', was to show us that it is not about what we did for reward.

It is about doing it because it is what is right.

Forget law, punishment and death. Forget all of that.

If a deed is only done in fear of punishment, then it is nothing that God favours.

Joy is synonymous with the Kingdom of God. Peace is synonymous with the Kingdom of God. Love is synonymous with the Kingdom of God.

There is no fear in Christ. Because what purpose does it serve but to force law and ritual upon people whose hearts are only afraid?

There need be no fear of charity.

Self sacrifice is not something we should do simply because we are told to.

Look behind the literal and see it's value for good. Then you can understand WHY God wishes for us to behave in such ways.

It is a world better off.

God wills that all come to eternal life.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
Do we live a life of Godliness only to receive what is waiting for us? If so, then we do not live for God, but for ourselves.
That is the ONLY reason to live a life of Godliness! Does God need saving?

We live a righteous life for a reason....we do it for the reward that is promised to us.

Matt.16
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

And what is that reward based on? The acts and deeds we do in this life. In other words...whether or not w obey God.

Rom.4
[3] For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Now was it ONLY belief that was counted for righteousness...or...did Abraham have to do something to prove his belief? Abraham not only believed in God's words when God told him to sacrifice Issac, Abraham drew back the knife. And what was said next?

"And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me."

It was not until Abraham performed an action that his faith was counted as righteousness.

Let's read more about the reward that will be given because of our deeds and works;

1 Cor.8
[8] Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

Rev.22
[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


Yes! We DO live a life of Godliness to receive what is waiting for us. God does not need saving! We do!





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E

Eccl12and13

Guest
Did not Jesus, Paul, James and ALL that were called to write God's word, in both OT and NT, teach and preach to keep the commandments and laws of God?

Why did they do this?


.
 
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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,363
6,652
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We love God because He loved us first. Not only is it a pleasure to serve those we love, it is our due.

Yahweh, God, has served us since the creation, yet, the idea of serving Him is as though we are seeking gain, however being imitators of Yeshua, and loving Him, our new nature is the desire to serve Him. Or do people believe Yeshua, Jesus, did not serve each of us on the cross? Yahweh forbid.

We love Him because He loved us first. We serve Him because He served us first. No one has anything or is anything that He did not create and give.

Yahweh, God, is always good, and to declare we only seek reward is kicking against the goads. When we love anyone, our desire is for their pleasure, and Yahweh's pleasure is always good.

Praise our Savior, Jesus, Yeshua, amen.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
Let's read what Paul tells us give life..

Rom.7
[10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Paul tells us God's laws were ordained to life. And what happened to Paul when he became aware of the laws of God?

That old man.....the Paul the used to not keep the laws and commandments of God, had to die. Paul could not continue in his old way and still serve the true and living God. Paul could not expect to enter into God's kingdom continuing in his old ways. Let's read how Paul described it....

[9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Paul tells us when God's laws came into his life, sin was made known and the old Paul...the sinful Paul died.


God's laws give life....if kept.



.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Let's read what Paul tells us give life..

Rom.7
[10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Paul tells us God's laws were ordained to life. And what happened to Paul when he became aware of the laws of God?

That old man.....the Paul the used to not keep the laws and commandments of God, had to die. Paul could not continue in his old way and still serve the true and living God. Paul could not expect to enter into God's kingdom continuing in his old ways. Let's read how Paul described it....

[9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Paul tells us when God's laws came into his life, sin was made known and the old Paul...the sinful Paul died.


God's laws give life....if kept.



.
wow talk about distorting scripture..

Paul is saying the commandment can not give life. it only gives death, for by the law is knowledge of sin, and a knowledge that i have already failed to live up to the standard.

james reiterates this when he claims by breaking 1 command we are found guilty of the whole law. guilty means condemned. means once we sin once, there is no hope apart from christ,