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C
Fine then, go and speak with them, the entire modern world believes in heliocentricism, I don't, I believe the Bible, I am a Christian who believes what is written in the Bible, I have the right to speak freely of my ideas on my thread, if you don't like my ideas, then go somewhere else, I don't care, you are just clogging up the comments and I have others comments to answer, so if you don't mind, just go somewhere else.
C
Isaiah 55:8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, saith the LORD."
Ex. 9:16 "And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to show in thee My power, and that My Name may be declared throughout all the earth."
The word of Scripture is God's word, this is called "the scripture of truth", that is what God says.
1 Chron. 16:30 "...the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved."
Psalm 19:5 "...and the sun - cometh out to run."
Psalm 19:6 "...the sun goes forth in a circle from one end of heaven to the other..."
Psalm 93:1 "...the world also is stablished that it cannot be moved..."
Psalm 104:19 "...the sun knoweth his going down."
Ecclesiastes 1:5 "...The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down and hasteth to the place where he arose."
Amos 8:9 "...cause the sun to go down at noon."
Micah 3:6 "...and the sun shall go down."
Jonah 4:8 "...when the sun did arise."
Matthew 5:45 "...for He maketh His sun to rise..."
Mark 1:32 "...when the sun did set."
It would appear that God is saying that the sun is moving and the earth is not, and that is how it appears to me everyday, and every known physical test just further proves a stationary earth, if God says it, and I see it and I test it and it all corresponds, then I can establish truth with God trusting in His sure word. I do know that many will be decieved, so maybe that is you, maybe you have severely underestimated that powers of Satan, maybe you do not love God for God is truth, but you make Him a liar, and by that you will be judged.
Ex. 9:16 "And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to show in thee My power, and that My Name may be declared throughout all the earth."
The word of Scripture is God's word, this is called "the scripture of truth", that is what God says.
1 Chron. 16:30 "...the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved."
Psalm 19:5 "...and the sun - cometh out to run."
Psalm 19:6 "...the sun goes forth in a circle from one end of heaven to the other..."
Psalm 93:1 "...the world also is stablished that it cannot be moved..."
Psalm 104:19 "...the sun knoweth his going down."
Ecclesiastes 1:5 "...The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down and hasteth to the place where he arose."
Amos 8:9 "...cause the sun to go down at noon."
Micah 3:6 "...and the sun shall go down."
Jonah 4:8 "...when the sun did arise."
Matthew 5:45 "...for He maketh His sun to rise..."
Mark 1:32 "...when the sun did set."
It would appear that God is saying that the sun is moving and the earth is not, and that is how it appears to me everyday, and every known physical test just further proves a stationary earth, if God says it, and I see it and I test it and it all corresponds, then I can establish truth with God trusting in His sure word. I do know that many will be decieved, so maybe that is you, maybe you have severely underestimated that powers of Satan, maybe you do not love God for God is truth, but you make Him a liar, and by that you will be judged.
C
Isaiah 38:8
"So the sun returned ten degrees..."
Habakkuk 3:11
"The sun and moon stood still in their habitation"
Joshua 10:13
"And the sun stood still and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven and hasteth not to go down a whole day."
"So the sun returned ten degrees..."
Habakkuk 3:11
"The sun and moon stood still in their habitation"
Joshua 10:13
"And the sun stood still and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven and hasteth not to go down a whole day."
And no sane person. Of course the Christian would believe in a round-earth, because by the time Christianity came about, Greek philosophy was already established. Yet, we uphold old testament scriptures which are clearly flat-earth in nature, much much older than Greek philosophy , and we pretend that these scriptures teach a spherical earth. This is fitting a modern interpretation to the scriptures, instead of reading them as they stand and as how the ancient authors and readers would have read them. That the scripture teaches a flat earth is not only evident in the canon, but also matches nicely with the non-canonical books such as 1 Enoch which is explicitly flat-aerth, highlights the ancient people's view of a flat -earth. Not to mention that the canonical scripture references this book (eg Jude), and 1 Enoch is highly regarded.
If the ancient Jews believe in a flat-earth, like their contemporaries, who are we with the benefit of Greek philosophy and scientific knowledge, to claim that the bible undoubtedly teaches a spherical earth? Except that we base our views of scripture on a modern-day presumption that every tit-bit of information in the scriptures about the world is supposed to line up with modern-day scientific fact, "Because God said so, and the bible is 100% perfect".
We can only hold a spherical earth position by mis-interpreting or ignoring the passages which do clearly show flat-earth language, misunderstand the intended purpose of the scripture (as spiritual guide, not scientific encyclopedia), and ignore the ancient and historical times in which the scriptures were written (that being in an ancient world where flat-earth cosmologies were common). Assuming that human kind did not have the benefit of hindsight, Greek philosphy, world and space exploration and the scientific knowledge we have not, but only a bible, humans would most likely believe in a flat earth, not round.
If the ancient Jews believe in a flat-earth, like their contemporaries, who are we with the benefit of Greek philosophy and scientific knowledge, to claim that the bible undoubtedly teaches a spherical earth? Except that we base our views of scripture on a modern-day presumption that every tit-bit of information in the scriptures about the world is supposed to line up with modern-day scientific fact, "Because God said so, and the bible is 100% perfect".
We can only hold a spherical earth position by mis-interpreting or ignoring the passages which do clearly show flat-earth language, misunderstand the intended purpose of the scripture (as spiritual guide, not scientific encyclopedia), and ignore the ancient and historical times in which the scriptures were written (that being in an ancient world where flat-earth cosmologies were common). Assuming that human kind did not have the benefit of hindsight, Greek philosphy, world and space exploration and the scientific knowledge we have not, but only a bible, humans would most likely believe in a flat earth, not round.
C
No that is incorrect, I pointed out to you earlier 'Snail, that Isaiah was teaching a Spherical earth hundreds of years before Greek civilization even began.
Look I have already proven with scripture that the earth is spherical, if someone wants to believe in a flat earth, they can interpret that Bible how they like, I don't care... the Bible never says that the earth is flat, it has nothing to do with literal or not, the fact is that the earth is a sphere and the Bible accurately describes this to a sufficient degree that a Bible reader can figure this out using his or her own God given sense and eyes.
What you are saying is that Holy Scripture teaches a flat earth when the earth is spherical, what you are saying is that God got it wrong, He is ignorant of His own creation whereas you as an insignificant member of a cyberspace forum know better, you are saying that all the prophets; Moses, Isaiah, Job, none of them had the foggiest idea what they were talking about but merely ripped off some local fables from the surrounding peoples! Basically you just drag the word of God through the mud, you just stomp all over it call God a liar and march off to your own beat!
The Bible does NOT teach a flat earth, and I don't care if anybody thinks that it does, sunday school kids might think that Satan is snake that gave Eve an rosy red apple, just because one person thinks something does not make it true!
What's your argument other than; God writes entertaining fairy stories? You would openly denounce the word of God only because you wish to claim victory in a debate on the internet, that is ego that's all, it's only your ego talking without respect fot the spirit of truth even the holy spirit, you cannot be a Christian like that, that's not being a Christian.
Let me state again, the Bible teaches that the earth is a sphere and it is at the centre of the universe, that is Geocentric, the Earth is the centre, the Earth is not some insignificant little blue planet on the outskirts of some insignificant galaxy, just one of billions in an incredibly massive universe! That is a lie from the depths of HELL AND NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH!
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to all this fantastic claims the sthe scientific establishment pronounce from their pulpits, none whatsoever, and they speak their rubbish uncontested as if was direct from the mouth of God Himself, and I for one will not stand for it, because it is not true, it is not scientific, it is not proven, it is not observable and it is not reasonable and it is unGodly, it is NOT WHAT HE HAS SAID! And if anybody what's to say that it is just so they can keep peace with the world, then don't expect any sympathy from me, or support.
Look I have already proven with scripture that the earth is spherical, if someone wants to believe in a flat earth, they can interpret that Bible how they like, I don't care... the Bible never says that the earth is flat, it has nothing to do with literal or not, the fact is that the earth is a sphere and the Bible accurately describes this to a sufficient degree that a Bible reader can figure this out using his or her own God given sense and eyes.
What you are saying is that Holy Scripture teaches a flat earth when the earth is spherical, what you are saying is that God got it wrong, He is ignorant of His own creation whereas you as an insignificant member of a cyberspace forum know better, you are saying that all the prophets; Moses, Isaiah, Job, none of them had the foggiest idea what they were talking about but merely ripped off some local fables from the surrounding peoples! Basically you just drag the word of God through the mud, you just stomp all over it call God a liar and march off to your own beat!
The Bible does NOT teach a flat earth, and I don't care if anybody thinks that it does, sunday school kids might think that Satan is snake that gave Eve an rosy red apple, just because one person thinks something does not make it true!
What's your argument other than; God writes entertaining fairy stories? You would openly denounce the word of God only because you wish to claim victory in a debate on the internet, that is ego that's all, it's only your ego talking without respect fot the spirit of truth even the holy spirit, you cannot be a Christian like that, that's not being a Christian.
Let me state again, the Bible teaches that the earth is a sphere and it is at the centre of the universe, that is Geocentric, the Earth is the centre, the Earth is not some insignificant little blue planet on the outskirts of some insignificant galaxy, just one of billions in an incredibly massive universe! That is a lie from the depths of HELL AND NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH!
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to all this fantastic claims the sthe scientific establishment pronounce from their pulpits, none whatsoever, and they speak their rubbish uncontested as if was direct from the mouth of God Himself, and I for one will not stand for it, because it is not true, it is not scientific, it is not proven, it is not observable and it is not reasonable and it is unGodly, it is NOT WHAT HE HAS SAID! And if anybody what's to say that it is just so they can keep peace with the world, then don't expect any sympathy from me, or support.
If Isaiah was teaching a spherical earth, then they should have told the ancient Jews and whoever wrote the book of Enoch, which was written after Isaiah. That consistency is not found throughout the canon or non-canonical books re: spherical earth.
I found this comment a little strange, particularly the part I highlighted in bold - please consider your own position re: helio vs geo centricity.
Ptolemy and Aristotle might have taught that. But, the bible itself seems to teach a flat earth with a hemispherical hard sky-dome firmanent and "windows" through which the sun and moon, stars etc poke through, established on a solid foundation or pillar which cannot be moved. Even today a flat earth is often an acceptable approximation of the earths surface.
Hey, unlike you, at least I bother to capitalise Holy Spirit (out of respect). Not faerie stories, but symbolism, metaphors, figurative speech. The bible is full of it, you said so yourself once. I'm not denouncing the word of God, I'm interpreting it as it should be interpreted. Please be honest now and state where do you really get your beliefs from (eg Greek philosophy?, Aristotle?, Ptolemy?).
The liar would be the one who claims the bible says something that it doesn't say. (eg that the earth is spherical and geocentric universe), ignorant of its figurative meanings and/or the historical context and ancient world-view which the authors and readers had.
Newton was a devout Christian, go figure? Or get off your pathetic soap -box.
So according to you, Christianity existed before Greek philosophy? Proof?
I found this comment a little strange, particularly the part I highlighted in bold - please consider your own position re: helio vs geo centricity.
Ptolemy and Aristotle might have taught that. But, the bible itself seems to teach a flat earth with a hemispherical hard sky-dome firmanent and "windows" through which the sun and moon, stars etc poke through, established on a solid foundation or pillar which cannot be moved. Even today a flat earth is often an acceptable approximation of the earths surface.
Hey, unlike you, at least I bother to capitalise Holy Spirit (out of respect). Not faerie stories, but symbolism, metaphors, figurative speech. The bible is full of it, you said so yourself once. I'm not denouncing the word of God, I'm interpreting it as it should be interpreted. Please be honest now and state where do you really get your beliefs from (eg Greek philosophy?, Aristotle?, Ptolemy?).
The liar would be the one who claims the bible says something that it doesn't say. (eg that the earth is spherical and geocentric universe), ignorant of its figurative meanings and/or the historical context and ancient world-view which the authors and readers had.
Newton was a devout Christian, go figure? Or get off your pathetic soap -box.
So according to you, Christianity existed before Greek philosophy? Proof?
Cup-of-Ruin I am smart enough to know that despite your claims, before Christ came to earth, there were no Christians on the earth and therefore no Christianity.The question is, are you smart enough to realise that.
As for whether Enoch teaches a flat earth, it really a big YES. The fact that you deny it, shows either a) you've never read Enoch, or b) you never understood it. It is the clearest scripture we have about a flat-earth. What's more, it's purpose as more scientific book (unlike most of the Canon) emphasises that the ancient world's scientific knowledge was lacking.
So much so, that the easier option for the fundamentalist (and probably for you also) is not to question Enoch's flat-earthness, but to disregard it altogether on the basis of it being uninspired non-canonical scripture. Yet we know the book of Jude in the bible quotes it all the same.
Throughout early church history there were various people of note who believed in a flat-earth. Tertullian was one of them I think. What should be clear is that a spherical earth view is NOT as explicit in scripture as you claim it to be. At least we have the benefit of modern day science.
As for whether Enoch teaches a flat earth, it really a big YES. The fact that you deny it, shows either a) you've never read Enoch, or b) you never understood it. It is the clearest scripture we have about a flat-earth. What's more, it's purpose as more scientific book (unlike most of the Canon) emphasises that the ancient world's scientific knowledge was lacking.
So much so, that the easier option for the fundamentalist (and probably for you also) is not to question Enoch's flat-earthness, but to disregard it altogether on the basis of it being uninspired non-canonical scripture. Yet we know the book of Jude in the bible quotes it all the same.
Throughout early church history there were various people of note who believed in a flat-earth. Tertullian was one of them I think. What should be clear is that a spherical earth view is NOT as explicit in scripture as you claim it to be. At least we have the benefit of modern day science.
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