Fallacies of the Present Day Church
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Remember there is only one truth, and I send this especially for those who call us false teachers, and disreguard any furthur study into the word, I can see some of you here, who constantly attack the truth in scriptures, do dance around the main scriptures that clearly show your errors.
Iam not a bible scholar, and am a bit limited in my writing and comprehension ability, but am here to back up the few here who havent shut thier minds to truth, and are clearly teaching the truth!
We are commanded to cleanse ourselves. This translates out as purity:
G2511(to clense)
καθαρίζω
katharizō
kath-ar-id'-zo
From G2513; to cleanse (literally or figuratively): - (make) clean (-se), purge, purify.
Many will say that God will do the cleansing after we come to Him still defiled and filled with iniquity, which translates out as, God cleanses the sinner gradually, and all filthiness of the flesh and spirit isn’t mandatory for the sinner to do first.
But as stated, having therefore these promises that come to a cleansed and purified heart, that has been made pure through repentance and brokenness, 2 Cor 7-10-11, the cleansing part is what we do, not to save ourselves, but to present ourselves to God, cleansed and purged from all dead works, thus now becoming acceptable to Him, to receive His great and precious promises, which are many.
Now that the vile sins have been repented of (stopped) hoping God will relent of His wrath against the disobedient, we now can perfect Holiness in the fear of God!
So the salvation process isn’t a complicated one, but neither is at a quick one, two, three, you are forever saved and in the kingdom.
No, it comes to the truly repentant heart that has yielded to the word of God, through the great convicting power of the Holy Spirit that has come into the world to convict the lost and dying world, and church, of sin, righteousness, and judgment!
Joh 16:8 And when he is come,(The Holy Spirit) he will reprove(convict, rebuke) the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.
Mankind now has a free will choice, because he was created upright, and not depraved and unable to choose to obey. He can then succumb to the power of the spirit bearing down on him encouraging him to lay aside all filthiness and wickedness, and seek the mercy of God!
Perfection holiness isn’t earning anything from God it’s a command to follow, and this is driven by godly fear and reverence to God, who has just granted repentance for the remission of sins to the lost and rebellious sinner who has come to their end as the prodigal did, in utter despair and brokenness, now living the holy (separated) life unto God, in all fear of His great power and judgment, that will fall on those who continue to mock Him and His truth. Gal 6-7.
The growth process of a true follower of Christ is not sinning less and less, IE, less porn watching, less getting drunk, less fornication, less murdering etc.. but a process of growing more in wisdom and following the spirit who now fills the soul of the cleansed and purged saint, no longer full of guile, hate, lust, and pride!(the clearing that takes place in repentance)
The spirit now works in the saint, as they become more aware of their faults and imperfections, and short Comings, leading them through by the convicting power of the spirit, onto greater holiness, and purity, and obedience.
But the big offensive sins must have been put to death, cut off at the roots, and dealt with as Christ commands!
Now a cleansed and purified heart will no longer be hungering and thrusting for the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye and the pride of life, but instead hungering and thirsting for righteousness and purity, being motivated by the spirit in all love, patients, and diligence to walk a holy and sanctified life, not in total perfection but in perfect obedience to the truth, willing to grow, learn and forsake all that the spirit reveals to them, especially anything that can lead to willful sin and rebellion or make another brother or sister stumble!
Tommy 11-17-12
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Iam not a bible scholar, and am a bit limited in my writing and comprehension ability, but am here to back up the few here who havent shut thier minds to truth, and are clearly teaching the truth!
let us cleanse ourselves!
2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
We are commanded to cleanse ourselves. This translates out as purity:
G2511(to clense)
καθαρίζω
katharizō
kath-ar-id'-zo
From G2513; to cleanse (literally or figuratively): - (make) clean (-se), purge, purify.
Many will say that God will do the cleansing after we come to Him still defiled and filled with iniquity, which translates out as, God cleanses the sinner gradually, and all filthiness of the flesh and spirit isn’t mandatory for the sinner to do first.
But as stated, having therefore these promises that come to a cleansed and purified heart, that has been made pure through repentance and brokenness, 2 Cor 7-10-11, the cleansing part is what we do, not to save ourselves, but to present ourselves to God, cleansed and purged from all dead works, thus now becoming acceptable to Him, to receive His great and precious promises, which are many.
Now that the vile sins have been repented of (stopped) hoping God will relent of His wrath against the disobedient, we now can perfect Holiness in the fear of God!
So the salvation process isn’t a complicated one, but neither is at a quick one, two, three, you are forever saved and in the kingdom.
No, it comes to the truly repentant heart that has yielded to the word of God, through the great convicting power of the Holy Spirit that has come into the world to convict the lost and dying world, and church, of sin, righteousness, and judgment!
Joh 16:8 And when he is come,(The Holy Spirit) he will reprove(convict, rebuke) the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.
Mankind now has a free will choice, because he was created upright, and not depraved and unable to choose to obey. He can then succumb to the power of the spirit bearing down on him encouraging him to lay aside all filthiness and wickedness, and seek the mercy of God!
Perfection holiness isn’t earning anything from God it’s a command to follow, and this is driven by godly fear and reverence to God, who has just granted repentance for the remission of sins to the lost and rebellious sinner who has come to their end as the prodigal did, in utter despair and brokenness, now living the holy (separated) life unto God, in all fear of His great power and judgment, that will fall on those who continue to mock Him and His truth. Gal 6-7.
The growth process of a true follower of Christ is not sinning less and less, IE, less porn watching, less getting drunk, less fornication, less murdering etc.. but a process of growing more in wisdom and following the spirit who now fills the soul of the cleansed and purged saint, no longer full of guile, hate, lust, and pride!(the clearing that takes place in repentance)
The spirit now works in the saint, as they become more aware of their faults and imperfections, and short Comings, leading them through by the convicting power of the spirit, onto greater holiness, and purity, and obedience.
But the big offensive sins must have been put to death, cut off at the roots, and dealt with as Christ commands!
Now a cleansed and purified heart will no longer be hungering and thrusting for the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye and the pride of life, but instead hungering and thirsting for righteousness and purity, being motivated by the spirit in all love, patients, and diligence to walk a holy and sanctified life, not in total perfection but in perfect obedience to the truth, willing to grow, learn and forsake all that the spirit reveals to them, especially anything that can lead to willful sin and rebellion or make another brother or sister stumble!
Tommy 11-17-12
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
A
Just out of curiousty, do you actully believe I would be as childish as to like what Skinski is saying just for the mere 'revenge of showing you my feelings was hurt?' I am 44 years old. If following God's Voice is considered a false doctrine, then I do not stand before you, but before God. If Christ is his foundation and upon that foundation he proclaims his testimony, then yes, he is my Brother. Although I do not agree with all he says, I do agree to a vast majority of it. Perhaps if one would speak out of Love and not a snarling smark, one could exhort and not condemn him. But then again, that would be in harmony with Scripture speaking.
Likewise
Likewise
expounded to him in a more excellent way.
There are many mysteries we need revealed...one is about pure grace/our commanded volition.
this will be my focus for awhile i think thats where alot the trouble is.
Another major is the atonement...and we dont need to use just a few controversial
NT passages when its the topic from genesis to revelation.
Christ’s atonement on the cross covers our past, present, and future sins but we are not automatically forgiven of our future sins, rather we are forgiven of our past sins against God. Christ provided a way for everyone to be forgiven of sins on the condition that one repents, humble themselves and have faith in Him, and approach His throne of grace and mercy.
2 Peter 1:9- But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
We guilty of sins we have not yet committed. Throughout the bible, men have always been asked to repent of their sins to receive forgiveness of sins. I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish (Luke 13:3).
This doctrine of pre-forgiveness of sins gives one the impression that future sins in the life of a believer is overlooked since Christ has forgiven them in advance and repentance is not needed. This is a fallacy. There is no biblical proof that future sins are pre-forgiven.
2 Peter 1:9- But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
We guilty of sins we have not yet committed. Throughout the bible, men have always been asked to repent of their sins to receive forgiveness of sins. I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish (Luke 13:3).
This doctrine of pre-forgiveness of sins gives one the impression that future sins in the life of a believer is overlooked since Christ has forgiven them in advance and repentance is not needed. This is a fallacy. There is no biblical proof that future sins are pre-forgiven.
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U
I'll leave this to ponder for those following this thread.
Matthew 12:31 Therefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men.
If the expressed understanding of some here concerning "willfull sin" after salvation is true as they profess, what then can be concluded but to say that there is more than one "unpardonable" sin ? "All manner of sin" won't be forgiven. There must be several, given that each of us may have struggled (and undoubtedly did) in different area's of our walk with Christ ... even after being saved. Is "coming to the knowledge of the truth" (knowing the truth) the same as "receiving Christ's free gift of salvation by grace thru faith" ? Think about it. If we reject Christ, THIS is what can never be overlooked by God ... and thus forgiven. And this is what it means to "willfully sin" after they came to a knowledge of the truth. They rejected what Christ did for them on the cross. Jesus is the Truth ... and the Way. No man comes to the Father but by Him.
Matthew 12:31 Therefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men.
If the expressed understanding of some here concerning "willfull sin" after salvation is true as they profess, what then can be concluded but to say that there is more than one "unpardonable" sin ? "All manner of sin" won't be forgiven. There must be several, given that each of us may have struggled (and undoubtedly did) in different area's of our walk with Christ ... even after being saved. Is "coming to the knowledge of the truth" (knowing the truth) the same as "receiving Christ's free gift of salvation by grace thru faith" ? Think about it. If we reject Christ, THIS is what can never be overlooked by God ... and thus forgiven. And this is what it means to "willfully sin" after they came to a knowledge of the truth. They rejected what Christ did for them on the cross. Jesus is the Truth ... and the Way. No man comes to the Father but by Him.
Definition of PERFECTIONISM
1
a : the doctrine that the perfection of moral character constitutes a person's highest good
b : the theological doctrine that a state of freedom from sin is attainable on earth
2
: a disposition to regard anything short of perfection as unacceptable
1
a : the doctrine that the perfection of moral character constitutes a person's highest good
b : the theological doctrine that a state of freedom from sin is attainable on earth
2
: a disposition to regard anything short of perfection as unacceptable
Many come to the knowledge of the gospel but it just isn't good enough for them.
I mean it doesn't fulfill their predetermined standard for what 'righteousness' is.
It is obvious by reading the thoughts of certain people on this thread just what that mindset is.
And it is just as obvious how that mindset derives from a self righteous spirit.
Which spirit is the unpardonable sin, namely pride, (of the spiritual nature).
I mean it doesn't fulfill their predetermined standard for what 'righteousness' is.
It is obvious by reading the thoughts of certain people on this thread just what that mindset is.
And it is just as obvious how that mindset derives from a self righteous spirit.
Which spirit is the unpardonable sin, namely pride, (of the spiritual nature).
Spiritual pride IS the unpardonable sin.
You see why don't you?
Because those who have it think they don't, (because they are sure they are righteous).
That's why they never repent of it......and hence can never find forgiveness.
See Jesus telling the pharisees that publicans and harlots would enter the kingdom of heave before them(self righteous). Matt. 21:31,32
Also the prayer of the publican(head bowed, smiting breast) vs. the prayer of the pharisee(thanking God he was made the way he was).
You see why don't you?
Because those who have it think they don't, (because they are sure they are righteous).
That's why they never repent of it......and hence can never find forgiveness.
See Jesus telling the pharisees that publicans and harlots would enter the kingdom of heave before them(self righteous). Matt. 21:31,32
Also the prayer of the publican(head bowed, smiting breast) vs. the prayer of the pharisee(thanking God he was made the way he was).
F
ummm I think you went a little far there. Pride is not the unpardonable sin, and it can be repented of. One can humble themselves through further study, even if they were one time the most prideful of the prideful, that's because God is willing to take any, and does have the power to even change this kind of person, if the person will humble their self, which can be done by hearing God's words.
In the way your saying this is the unpardonable sin, you mean those who will never see it and never repent from it, because "they dont think they have it (because they are sure they are righteous)". Why cant one who thinks he is righteous allow God to tell him he is not and then repent?
When Christ said this to the Jews it was because they were accusing him of his power being from Satan. His miracles they said were from Beelzebub. Clearly pride had something to do with that, but pride itself was not the sin that could not be forgiven.
In the way your saying this is the unpardonable sin, you mean those who will never see it and never repent from it, because "they dont think they have it (because they are sure they are righteous)". Why cant one who thinks he is righteous allow God to tell him he is not and then repent?
When Christ said this to the Jews it was because they were accusing him of his power being from Satan. His miracles they said were from Beelzebub. Clearly pride had something to do with that, but pride itself was not the sin that could not be forgiven.
C
We are supposed to seek God's heart in such matters and lift such people up in prayer. There are times when God will give you something to say concerning a matter or a person and there are times when God will tell you to be silent. To often, "heresy hunters" on the website are quick to respond (consistantly) in the flesh, proving that they are no better off spiritually than those they are taking a stand against.
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E
There is a few problems with this kind of thinking;
1. Christ new every sin you would ever commit in your life BEFORE you were born, let alone before he saved you
2. Christ new every sin you would ever commit before the foundation of the world, when he chose you,
3. Christ also knew every thought you would have BEFORE both the foundation of the world when he chose you, and before he saved you when you came to faith.
4. You can;t fool God. and say you have faith today, then turn around ten years later and act like you don't even know him, He is outside of time. The moment he adopted you as his son or daughter, he knew everything about you past present and future.
Jesus in luke 13 was telling them to repent they had not yet had faith in him. the same goes for all people. . there is all kinds of proof.
1. he who believed will never die. never hunger or thirst, live forever, have eternal life, and given Gods own assurance he will raise you on the last day.
2. You are given the HS as a seal and guarantee, until the day of redemption (ressurection day)
3. Because of our faith, we are no longer condemned, and not subject to Gods wrath
4. We are saved not by what we have done, are doing or will do, but by the washing and renewal of the HS
if preforgiveness of sin is as you say a falicy, All these things God promised to ALL who have faith in him are a lie, because God could not promise these things without gauranteeing forgiveness of future sin.