Pregnancies from rape a "gift from God"?????

[smithbr8]

You quoted my post, but it doesn't seem that you actually read it.

1. I don't know allah
2. Please post where I said I hold myself to God's standards. I made very it clear in MY post that while God has expectations of us ALL, I am relying upon His grace and mercy, as I am incapable of rising to His expectations without Christ, like everyone else. To believe otherwise would, indeed, be hypocrisy.
3. I don't know what provoked your rant re: denominations. I mentioned none, spoke against none and do not personally accept denominations.
4. I have no idea whether I'm right or not, but I know He is.

I think it would be an excellent idea to refrain from future unprovoked personal attacks. They edify no one.

God has expectations for us ALL- fine. But why should everyone follow our God's expectations if they fully believe their God's expectations are the correct ones?

 

[smithbr8]

The definition of bloodshed he is using is that of the taking of life, as far as I can tell.

From Webster:
: the shedding of blood
2
: the taking of life : slaughter

There is bloodshed in the sense of shedding of blood during a woman's period, yes.

Also from Webster:
chiefly dialect : to set apart : segregate
2
: to cause to be dispersed without penetrating <duck's plumage sheds water>
3
a : to cause (blood) to flow by cutting or wounding
b : to pour forth in drops <shed tears>
c : to give off or out <sheds some light on the subject>
4
: to give off, discharge, or expel from the body of a plant or animal: as
a : to eject, slough off, or lose as part of the normal processes of life <a caterpillar shedding its skin> <a cat shedding hair> <a deciduous tree sheds its leaves in the fall>
b : to discharge usually gradually especially as part of a pathological process <shed a virus in the feces>
5
: to rid oneself of temporarily or permanently as superfluous or unwanted <shed her inhibitions> <the company shed 100 jobs>

No, it is not unjustified killing.


No it is not, because although the plant cells are killed, it is not unjustified killing.


God has said we can eat meat and plants.

Murder is unjustified killing, not all killing is unjustified.[/QUOTE]

Why are we allowed to define what life is worth living or not? If we're going to claim that a cluster of cells in the womb is absolutely life and it's an abomination to destroy it, then why do we say that another cluster of cells is worth killing it's just "justified"? I'm almost positive that if you could ask a mother deer if she finds her young as alive she'd answer yes. I'm positive if you asked a pig if it wanted to be slaughtered since it's life doesn't matter anyway- it'd say no. Yet we have no problem murdering these animals to eat. How is that any better? We say "It doesn't matter if you want to live, we're better than you"

 

[smithbr8]

No one is forcing anyone to Not have an abortion if they want to., that's their decision. We are just pointing out that as Christians, & this is a Christian website, abortion is the murder of a child.( Dna) Hence violation of the 10 commandments & definition by Jesus himself of what people are burning in the Lake of fire=murderers. No one is stopping you, it's just in the Bible. Once you start picking & choosing which verses you like & don't like in the Bible & which ones you will obey, I think you have just created your own religion,cult,spin off,etc. It's not even a misinterpretation or doctrinal difference. But do whatever you want, no one is ever changing the law. I'm not judging or trying to stop anyone.

There is not a single denomination that isn't a cult then according to your post. EVERY church interprets the Bible and picks and chooses what parts they follow.

 

[violakat]

This is one of the few instances that I could care less what the Scipture says, and totally disagree with it. I do respect everyone's opinions though, that is what make these forums so nice, we get a variety of thoughts on the forums.

If you have no respect for what the Scripture says in this issue, are there others? And where does this leave you when the Bible tells you to not do something that you want to do, or to do something that you don't want to do? Are you also going to ignore what the Scripture says?

The danger in choosing what you'll accept from the Scripture and not accept is creating your own religion that has nothing to do with God. Think carefully before deciding that you do not have to do what God's Word says.

 

[violakat]

the cartoon is jimmy smacking himself in the forehead... because he is frustrated by your post regarding genesis.
I tend to agree with Jimmy that God breathing into Adams nostrils while at the begining of creation is a very poor argument. If this line of reason were to stand alone as you used in the post then God would still be forming new people out of dirt and ribs and dropping them off in assorted places in the world. God indeed breathed into Adams nostrils... this was the FIRST man and woman... in creating them he also set in motion the biological reproductive process. Rape is a violent assault upon a woman... the pregnancy is the result of the timing of the reproductive process which is in operation all the time. Politicians who make sweeping statements that "legitimate rape" causes no pregnancy are saying that they believe God suspends the biological process ofa rape victim so she cannot become pregnant... that is just not true.. all intercourse rape or otherwise has a $ chance of resulting in pregnancy. The principal under scrutiny here is WHEN does life begin. I beleive life begins at the moment of conception... regardless of how that conception occurred. Thus i am also offended by the fertility and science industry who make concieve persons in a test-tube and then destroy them for lack of a womb or to harvest stem cells.

Thank you. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I could go on a rant over this, but that's for another thread.

 

[webchatter]

No denominations are not cults. Different denominations may focus on a certain verse or theme OF THE BIBLE, BASED ON SCRIPTURE. Notice -Ryan- "s post, several pages ago, which is the basic theme here for the pro abortionists. He refuses to follow the scripture no matter what it says. that is about what he siad. So their is NO Christian denomination that I am aware of, that SAYS they are not going to follow certain SCRIPTURE.. They arn't picking & choosing, making up their own religion. The Bible is the basis for denominations beliefs.
In fact, I had to ask just this question in a new thread because I could not understand that thinking.
SEE "BIBLE SPIN OFF OR NEW RELIGION?" IN THE BIBLE DISCUSSION FORUM. So please join in the thread.
At least Ryan admits he knows the Bible says this & he's just not going to follow it, while others claim the bible doesnt indicate such. If you think a fetus is just cell structure like a plant maybe you should look at some pics on the internet. Human dna doesn't qualify as plant life. ( sorry i can't get it off bold type) People are chancing that they are wrong, when 9 months of inconvienience, followed by adoption, is out of the question for most. That hasn't been addressed. Why not?
I know that a rapist could repent of the sin of rape, & end up in heaven. If the woman who had an abortion doesn't repent is she also going to heaven? (along with her cohorts). I don't think any staunch pro abortionist would repent sincerely. So thru the forgiveness of our Lord God Almighty, the rapist could end up in heaven while the people involved in the abortion might end up in hell for that reason. It's just a Christian belief, theory, from Scripture, plz don't be mad.
See "Bible spin off or new religion" in bible discussion forum.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

I don't think any staunch pro abortionist would repent sincerely.

That is highly offensive, rude, and downright stupid. You think a rapist is more likely to come to Jesus than someone who is pro-choice?

Jesus loves all sinners equally, and all sinners have the same chance to come to Jesus for forgiveness of their sins. No one sin is less forgivable than any other sin.

I don't even want to know where your sick, twisted ideas come from, but I'm sure it's not the Bible.

 

[webchatter]

grunge diva, thanks for your rudeness. I said nothing of the sort that u accused me of u r the one twisting words. What it means ("I don't think any staunch pro abortionist would repent sincerly)= PEOPLE don't repent of something that they don't think is a sin!!!!

 

[Jullianna]

God has expectations for us ALL- fine. But why should everyone follow our God's expectations if they fully believe their God's expectations are the correct ones?

If you know "our God", why ask me this question rather than Him, and why ask it here in a thread of another topic?

 

[webchatter]

Do u believe in predestination, chosen,elected, or that God knew you before you were born/concieved and that he may have a purpose for you in life? Did God have plans for the child that was aborted?
Paul to GAl:1:15-"God...from my mother's womb had set me apart and called me through His grace".
Ps 22:10,11-"You have been my guide since I was first formed...from my mother's womb you are my God".
Ps.127:3 "Truly children are a gift from the Lord;the fruit of the womb is a reward".
Ps139:13,15- "You knit me in my mother's womb...nor was my frame unknown to you when I was made in secret".
Luke 6:36-"Be merciful as your heavenly Father is merciful".
We understand rape victims' great sacrifice to allow9 months to give birth to a child they don't want. But it shows mercy to allow the child to live, then give it up for adoption. Or drop the baby off at any firestation, hospital, church,etc. Do unto others? Do Christian pro abortionists believe the aborted fetus goes to heaven?

 

[BarlyGurl]

That is highly offensive, rude, and downright stupid. You think a rapist is more likely to come to Jesus than someone who is pro-choice?

Jesus loves all sinners equally, and all sinners have the same chance to come to Jesus for forgiveness of their sins. No one sin is less forgivable than any other sin.

I don't even want to know where your sick, twisted ideas come from, but I'm sure it's not the Bible.

GrungeDiva....your response is highly antagonistic and the content of your reply has no basis regarding webchatter's post. Whatever it is that is bothering you... you might want to examine that more closely... and perhaps count to ten, reread the post and count again... lest future tirades do harm.

 

[smithbr8]

If you know "our God", why ask me this question rather than Him, and why ask it here in a thread of another topic?

I do, and you know what I've learned? That people have different beliefs and that's ok. Respect their decisions and don't make decisions about their lives. Focus on your life, you don't know their fate, only the Lord does. How would you feel if a woman was denied an abortion, and during childbirth both she and the fetus died? What if her next baby (after the aborted one) would've been the only single person to cure cancer? Is it justified that she and the baby both died because we make decisions for her about her body? No.

Am I saying that all women should get abortions? No. However, we can't tell women that they can't, we just have to trust that they'll make the right decision. Religion can't take place in laws. Sorry, but it can't. Hence why the religious argument for anti-gay marriage doesn't work. Hence why the religious argument for anti-abortion doesn't work. If this were the case, we should never all any woman who is sterile to marry, nor people of other religions.

 

[BarlyGurl]

maybe the mowan doesnt want to wreck her body with the pregnancy i mean...it isnt the kidest on the female form to have a child. Especially one that unwanted...

Nautilus... in the future... everytime I read your posts... this one will come to mind.

 

[Jullianna]

I do, and you know what I've learned? That people have different beliefs and that's ok. Respect their decisions and don't make decisions about their lives. Focus on your life, you don't know their fate, only the Lord does. How would you feel if a woman was denied an abortion, and during childbirth both she and the fetus died? What if her next baby (after the aborted one) would've been the only single person to cure cancer? Is it justified that she and the baby both died because we make decisions for her about her body? No.

Am I saying that all women should get abortions? No. However, we can't tell women that they can't, we just have to trust that they'll make the right decision. Religion can't take place in laws. Sorry, but it can't. Hence why the religious argument for anti-gay marriage doesn't work. Hence why the religious argument for anti-abortion doesn't work. If this were the case, we should never all any woman who is sterile to marry, nor people of other religions.

If you really believe what you just typed, then it will be okay with you that I disagree in so many ways, and I pray that you really do know Him.

If we don't understand the difference between a child and a blade of grass, comprehension of other things can get a bit blurry as well.

 

[Nautilus]

Nautilus... in the future... everytime I read your posts... this one will come to mind.

dont it was more a sarcadtic one based on the fact that this thread has become nothing but cclical arguments between people taking it seriously and then people like smith proposing one insane theory after another...I just got irritated.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

GrungeDiva....your response is highly antagonistic and the content of your reply has no basis regarding webchatter's post. Whatever it is that is bothering you... you might want to examine that more closely... and perhaps count to ten, reread the post and count again... lest future tirades do harm.

My response was not nearly as antagonistic as webchatter's post. Why did you not tell webchatter to examine what is bothering him, count to ten, and re-read his post? Why do you not warn webchatter that his tirades may do harm?

The next time you think you're so high and mighty that you have the authority to decide for God who is righteous and who is not, do yourself a favor and YOU count to ten and re-think it.

 

[BarlyGurl]

My response was not nearly as antagonistic as webchatter's post. Why did you not tell webchatter to examine what is bothering him, count to ten, and re-read his post? Why do you not warn webchatter that his tirades may do harm?

The next time you think you're so high and mighty that you have the authority to decide for God who is righteous and who is not, do yourself a favor and YOU count to ten and re-think it.

...aww... another teachable spirit... warm fuzzies

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

Do u believe in predestination, chosen,elected, or that God knew you before you were born/concieved and that he may have a purpose for you in life?

I don't know who, specifically, you're asking, or if you're asking the whole board in general.

I believe God has a purpose for every soul, and knows that even before each person is conceived, yes. I cannot speak for what other people believe, and I know there are Christians out there who have a variety of beliefs on that topic.

Did God have plans for the child that was aborted?

I cannot possibly know what God's plans are. I believe that God is in charge of everything, and I leave that in God's hands. I do not presume to tell God what He should do about anything. And I wouldn't think anyone else who considers him or herself Christian would presume so, either, but then, I've been surprised at what some people who call themselves Christian think before, so I guess nothing should shock me any more.

Do Christian pro abortionists believe the aborted fetus goes to heaven?

Again, I cannot speak on behalf of anyone else. I can say two things:
(1) I have never personally met anyone who is "pro-abortion." Everyone I know, even atheists, believe that abortion is not a good thing, and that the best choice is, if you don't want a baby, don't get pregnant. I have heard of people, like in China and such, who are "pro-abortion," who say it is a good thing, use it as a sort of population control. But this is only hearsay, and I can't verify anything ... I've never met anyone who has that opinion, so I wouldn't know even if such people exist, let alone what they believe.

(2) I do know many Christians who are "pro-choice." In other words, they don't like abortion, but they believe it is not up to them to decide what another person should decide. They have a variety of views on the topic.

What seems to me to be the prevailing view among pro-choice Christians is that a fetus, before it is born, does not have a soul, and therefore there is nothing to "resurrect." I think most Christians of this view see the concepts of "soul" and "breath" being very linked in Scripture -- Adam was not alive until God breathed into his nostrils, for example. Since a baby does not take its first breath until after it is born, some people -- including many Christians -- believe that this is when the soul enters the body. I don't know if there's ever been a reputable poll on that topic, but that is just what I'm guessing, from chatting with friends of mine who feel that way.

I've found that on any topic, if you ask 3 people you'll get 4 different answers. I am content to let God worry about such things as who is saved and who is not saved, because it would give me a headache to try and figure it all out. I know that the original Fall of Adam and Eve is because we humans tried to be like God, trying to tell God what was right and wrong. The more we try to do that, the more we are mired in sin. The more we give that up to God, and live our lives according to God's will, and not worrying about what other people are doing or not doing, the more we are in tune with Him. So, though I don't always succeed, that is my aim.

 

[RickShafer]

I guess fish aren't alive. The soul enters at the first breath?
Why not say the soul is a work in progress that develops over years? Like Peter Singer- (the Princeton bio-ethicist who equates babies to mackerel).
You are under the delusion of the god of this world.
Please notice the term 'pro choice' is always used on the airwaves.
The 'Prince of the power of the air's' airwaves.
Now notice how 'anti-abortion' is used by the same talking heads.
Never 'pro-abortion' or 'anti-choice'. It's almost as if they were one mind.
See any opinion molding here?

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

I guess fish aren't alive.

That's ridiculous. Fish breathe. They are alive. They are not, however, human.

The soul enters at the first breath?

That is what is indicated in much of Scripture, and many Christians also seem to believe this.

Why not say the soul is a work in progress that develops over years? Like Peter Singer- (the Princeton bio-ethicist who equates babies to mackerel).

I am not familiar with this Dr. Singer of whom you speak.

There is a point to what he says. We are all "works in progress" to some extent. We continue to grow spiritually and emotionally throughout our life, one hopes closer to God, though of course that does not always happen. I don't know if that is the gist of what Dr. Singer is saying or not, but either way, I'm not sure what that has to do with the topic at hand.

Please notice the term 'pro choice' is always used on the airwaves.

I wouldn't say "always" but often, and by respectable sources, yes.

The 'Prince of the power of the air's' airwaves.

Umm, whatever.

Now notice how 'anti-abortion' is used by the same talking heads.

Actually, no. The preferred term is "pro-life," not "anti-abortion." These terms are not perfect. I agree that it's a bit of a misnomer, because those who are "pro-life" in this debate are not "anti-choice" in general, and conversely, those who are "pro-choice" in this debate are not "anti-life." The most accurate labels for the two sides are "in favor of abortion remaining legal" or "against abortion remaining legal." But that's a mouthful, so the "pro-life" and "pro-choice" terms are generally accepted by respectable voices.