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A
sorry is it just me or did i miss the dragging fallen angels or demons behind white horses in that verse?
oh well back to reading the Bible....
Romans 12:18-20
18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”[a] says the Lord. 20 Therefore
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”[b]
oh well back to reading the Bible....
Romans 12:18-20
18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”[a] says the Lord. 20 Therefore
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”[b]
L
As long as you brought up the subject of nonresistance please click on the links below and read them:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/40848-killing-christian.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/40922-nationalism-religion.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/40848-killing-christian.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/40922-nationalism-religion.html
I did not read all the pages, but is this not God's advice to CERTAIN healing? Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
It seems pretty simple to me..... If you are sick, let your elders come to you, let them pray over you, anointing you with oil in the Name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith SHALL save the sick and the LORD shall raise him up! NO DOUBT! and even IF he committed sins (IF) they shall be forgiven.
I see a couple of things here. I see, the elders has to be strong in faith, but then that is what Jesus taught in 1 Timothy 3. And I see that the prayer of faith SHALL save the sick from whatever illness he has. Gaurenteed BY GOD! And as a bonus, even if the man is a sinner, that sinned, with this healing will also come cleansing and forgiveness.... NOW THAT IS GODLY HEALING!
Who here has elders in their church with this faith and obedience? If you do not have, change your church you are in the wrong church....
Abiding asks... are you going to die?
Abiding I die daily more and more in Christ, and I sall die completely BEFORE MY flesh goes to rest. I will die spiritually until my WHOLE OLD MAN DIED! Then I die, and God resuurect Jesus in me and me in Jesus, and I CANNOT die EVER again! Everlasting life begin the day God resurrect Jesus in me, and I am BORN OF GOD.... From the day I am born of God, my EVERLASTING LIFE begins.
I am not in my flesh from that day, Jesus is. and you know HE CANNOT die, but He might or might not give that flesh of mine life for ten minutes or ten centuries, who knows what God will do with that flesh? He is the ONLY One in control of that flesh, not you, not me and defenately not Satan! If God wants to give life to a fleshly body for longer than 200 years I suppose HE will. And if God does not want to give life to a fleshly body for longer than a second He also will not!
All I know is.... when God gives me the NEW LIFE and heart.... My old heart is removed,,, DEAD,,,, but my new heart is LIFE IN GOD!
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
So I am dead for the world and the world is dead for me, and I am alive in God and God in me. How long will God be in my flesh? Only He knows. ALL know there is no DEATH involved here, NONE. Only A SLEEP as Jesus said so often.
This flesh a am pinching now, is NOT ME! it is only a body, and it whould ne the temple of God. A HOUSE where God can RESIDE in. but He is a jealous God, and HE DOES NOT SHARE AN APARTMENT WITH ANYBODY, so I have to move FIRST. I have to leave this body so that God can move in. That is ..... For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
It seems pretty simple to me..... If you are sick, let your elders come to you, let them pray over you, anointing you with oil in the Name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith SHALL save the sick and the LORD shall raise him up! NO DOUBT! and even IF he committed sins (IF) they shall be forgiven.
I see a couple of things here. I see, the elders has to be strong in faith, but then that is what Jesus taught in 1 Timothy 3. And I see that the prayer of faith SHALL save the sick from whatever illness he has. Gaurenteed BY GOD! And as a bonus, even if the man is a sinner, that sinned, with this healing will also come cleansing and forgiveness.... NOW THAT IS GODLY HEALING!
Who here has elders in their church with this faith and obedience? If you do not have, change your church you are in the wrong church....
Abiding asks... are you going to die?
Abiding I die daily more and more in Christ, and I sall die completely BEFORE MY flesh goes to rest. I will die spiritually until my WHOLE OLD MAN DIED! Then I die, and God resuurect Jesus in me and me in Jesus, and I CANNOT die EVER again! Everlasting life begin the day God resurrect Jesus in me, and I am BORN OF GOD.... From the day I am born of God, my EVERLASTING LIFE begins.
I am not in my flesh from that day, Jesus is. and you know HE CANNOT die, but He might or might not give that flesh of mine life for ten minutes or ten centuries, who knows what God will do with that flesh? He is the ONLY One in control of that flesh, not you, not me and defenately not Satan! If God wants to give life to a fleshly body for longer than 200 years I suppose HE will. And if God does not want to give life to a fleshly body for longer than a second He also will not!
All I know is.... when God gives me the NEW LIFE and heart.... My old heart is removed,,, DEAD,,,, but my new heart is LIFE IN GOD!
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
So I am dead for the world and the world is dead for me, and I am alive in God and God in me. How long will God be in my flesh? Only He knows. ALL know there is no DEATH involved here, NONE. Only A SLEEP as Jesus said so often.
This flesh a am pinching now, is NOT ME! it is only a body, and it whould ne the temple of God. A HOUSE where God can RESIDE in. but He is a jealous God, and HE DOES NOT SHARE AN APARTMENT WITH ANYBODY, so I have to move FIRST. I have to leave this body so that God can move in. That is ..... For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
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P
Thanks, BarlyGurl. 
Yep--that's always my first and foremost wish...not that it's always been that...and I have to admit it's a challenge sometimes to want that most when there's danger to a loved one.
When my nephew died, what I really wanted was for him to be okay.
I'm kinda thinking he didn't die because we all lacked faith that he would be found...or survive the elements of that cold winter night.
I'm kinda thinking that God did what He wanted to do, and that it was for good for all concerned.
I have seen some good results in all of us. I still don't see all the good God did bring/is bringing from it. But my faith is in the plan and purposes of the Lord...i.e. in the Lord, Himself.
I spent some really down time (when I was down, I mean) doubting that.
But God is SO good, He even have me enough grace to make that better.
Healing isn't always physical.
And the healing that takes place in my spirit is much more valuable to me. ♥
love,
ellie
Yep--that's always my first and foremost wish...not that it's always been that...and I have to admit it's a challenge sometimes to want that most when there's danger to a loved one.
When my nephew died, what I really wanted was for him to be okay.
I'm kinda thinking he didn't die because we all lacked faith that he would be found...or survive the elements of that cold winter night.
I'm kinda thinking that God did what He wanted to do, and that it was for good for all concerned.
I have seen some good results in all of us. I still don't see all the good God did bring/is bringing from it. But my faith is in the plan and purposes of the Lord...i.e. in the Lord, Himself.
I spent some really down time (when I was down, I mean) doubting that.
But God is SO good, He even have me enough grace to make that better.
Healing isn't always physical.
And the healing that takes place in my spirit is much more valuable to me. ♥
love,
ellie
Thanks, BarlyGurl.
Yep--that's always my first and foremost wish...not that it's always been that...and I have to admit it's a challenge sometimes to want that most when there's danger to a loved one.
When my nephew died, what I really wanted was for him to be okay.
I'm kinda thinking he didn't die because we all lacked faith that he would be found...or survive the elements of that cold winter night.
I'm kinda thinking that God did what He wanted to do, and that it was for good for all concerned.
I have seen some good results in all of us. I still don't see all the good God did bring/is bringing from it. But my faith is in the plan and purposes of the Lord...i.e. in the Lord, Himself.
I spent some really down time (when I was down, I mean) doubting that.
But God is SO good, He even have me enough grace to make that better.
Healing isn't always physical.
And the healing that takes place in my spirit is much more valuable to me. ♥
love,
ellie
Yep--that's always my first and foremost wish...not that it's always been that...and I have to admit it's a challenge sometimes to want that most when there's danger to a loved one.
When my nephew died, what I really wanted was for him to be okay.
I'm kinda thinking he didn't die because we all lacked faith that he would be found...or survive the elements of that cold winter night.
I'm kinda thinking that God did what He wanted to do, and that it was for good for all concerned.
I have seen some good results in all of us. I still don't see all the good God did bring/is bringing from it. But my faith is in the plan and purposes of the Lord...i.e. in the Lord, Himself.
I spent some really down time (when I was down, I mean) doubting that.
But God is SO good, He even have me enough grace to make that better.
Healing isn't always physical.
And the healing that takes place in my spirit is much more valuable to me. ♥
love,
ellie
P
Thanks, Red.
I have to wonder, though, about some things.
Like...what if the Lord's compassion in this instance is to use my illness for His purpose?
(I'm not challenging you, I'm really asking. )
Because He seems to have orchestrated my life's circumstances to not simply accommodate this silly illness, though He has done that...I mean, my beyond wonderful husband, my sweet children, my dear friends and church family are all so loving and supportive and sympathetic and helpful. ♥
But I have been allowed to share Jesus with total strangers because I am ill. Nurses in the doc's office, those 'vampires' ( ) that draw my blood, ladies in women's rest rooms, people in shops, even a stranger on the train to Manhattan, have all heard my testimony about the Truth of the Savior and the mercy and sheer goodness of God because they asked about me.
So, I'm just honestly wondering if this isn't better? Is this greater compassion (is how I look at it)? Or am I just trying to offer myself consolation that I 'failed to receive' (OP's words) healing?
Are there times it's to the Lord's greater glory that we are healed, and times when it's to His greater glory that time passes? BecauseI think I will be well the absolute moment He's done using this.
Do I believe God heals? You betcha!
I guess I just don't believe He heals on command (which is what this thread sounds like to me)...is this wrong?
Thanks and love,
ellie
I have to wonder, though, about some things.
Like...what if the Lord's compassion in this instance is to use my illness for His purpose?
(I'm not challenging you, I'm really asking.
)Because He seems to have orchestrated my life's circumstances to not simply accommodate this silly illness, though He has done that...I mean, my beyond wonderful husband, my sweet children, my dear friends and church family are all so loving and supportive and sympathetic and helpful. ♥
But I have been allowed to share Jesus with total strangers because I am ill. Nurses in the doc's office, those 'vampires' (
) that draw my blood, ladies in women's rest rooms, people in shops, even a stranger on the train to Manhattan, have all heard my testimony about the Truth of the Savior and the mercy and sheer goodness of God because they asked about me. So, I'm just honestly wondering if this isn't better? Is this greater compassion (is how I look at it)? Or am I just trying to offer myself consolation that I 'failed to receive' (OP's words) healing?
Are there times it's to the Lord's greater glory that we are healed, and times when it's to His greater glory that time passes? BecauseI think I will be well the absolute moment He's done using this.
Do I believe God heals? You betcha!
I guess I just don't believe He heals on command (which is what this thread sounds like to me)...is this wrong?
Thanks and love,
ellie
I would love to here from a body member who could give a balanced explanation of the following verse as it pertains to prosperity, health and the soul prospering in (3Jn 1:2)...
2 Beloved, I wish above (or concerning) all things that thou mayest prosper (euodoo) and be in health (hugiaino), even as thy soul prospereth (euodoo).
Amplified
2 Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in every way and [that your body] may keep well, even as [I know] your soul keeps well and prospers.
Orthodox Jewish
2 Chaver, it is my tefillah that all may be hatzlocha (successful) with you, and that you may be shalem b’guf (healthy), just as your nefesh (soul) is matsli’ach (successful).
There are many scriptures that we have been given that outlines the health of the body of the believer concerning his flesh, his blood and his bones with a NT exhortation in (1Thes 5:23)...
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Beloved, I wish above (or concerning) all things that thou mayest prosper (euodoo) and be in health (hugiaino), even as thy soul prospereth (euodoo).
Amplified
2 Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in every way and [that your body] may keep well, even as [I know] your soul keeps well and prospers.
Orthodox Jewish
2 Chaver, it is my tefillah that all may be hatzlocha (successful) with you, and that you may be shalem b’guf (healthy), just as your nefesh (soul) is matsli’ach (successful).
There are many scriptures that we have been given that outlines the health of the body of the believer concerning his flesh, his blood and his bones with a NT exhortation in (1Thes 5:23)...
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
John was writing to the 'elect' lady.
Health, wealth, and prosperity have been promised using this verse and the prayer of Jabez.
That you may prosper even as your soul prospers.
Like saying 'amen and amen'; or' verily, verily'.
It is a common literary technique in hebrew writings to restate the same thought twice.
In fact, that is their form of poetry, (read the psalms).
Ours is rhyming, theirs was restating the same thought in a slightly different way.
Health, wealth, and prosperity have been promised using this verse and the prayer of Jabez.
That you may prosper even as your soul prospers.
Like saying 'amen and amen'; or' verily, verily'.
It is a common literary technique in hebrew writings to restate the same thought twice.
In fact, that is their form of poetry, (read the psalms).
Ours is rhyming, theirs was restating the same thought in a slightly different way.
Amen brother, I just want to add some more scripture that back this up:
2 Corinthians 5:1-9
The Temporal and Eternal
5 For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven (if we are longing and groaning for this covering in our earthly tent, then I believe this means we wont be completely satisfied -sanctified in our earthly bodies...Peter calls it our corruptible body-**Scripture to come**), 3 inasmuch as we, having put it on (however, those who are authentically in Christ have put on clothing now, which is Christ's atonement), will not be found naked (at His coming in which all will be judged, in a sense we are not fully clothed until this happens, our glorification- the manifestation of the sons of God Rom. 8:19: Rom. 8:18-30 ). 4 For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed (we eagerly await our completion) , so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life (our first death will be the only death we experience, for those in Christ will not experience the second death and will be consumed in Christ's life for eternally) . 5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. (Also see Ephesians 1:14 - this is our guarantee, the Spirit, why? Because we can't see His full purposes and perfect will- so His Spirit gives us hope).
6 Therefore, being always of good courage (always give thanks because Christ has and is putting all things under His feet), and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord (physically absent, not spiritually)— 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight— 8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. (this passage makes Paul's statement so obvious "prefer rather to be absent from the body", because our earthy tent can never be perfect.
**1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, (not reserved for this fallen world) 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
The Enduring Word
22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 24 because
“All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
25 But the word of the Lord endures forever.”
Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.
1 Corinthians 15:50-58
Our Final Victory
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”[g]
55“O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
This passage makes it clear as day, our total victory over sin, suffering, death, is at our resurrection, His 2nd coming..
This gets me excited! Come Lord Jesus!
L
Something interesting to consider in this discussion.
I was reading over the many scriptures where Jesus healed.
There were times when Jesus prayed, asking God Our Father for healing, He stated, not my will but your's Father.
God bless
pickles
I was reading over the many scriptures where Jesus healed.
There were times when Jesus prayed, asking God Our Father for healing, He stated, not my will but your's Father.
God bless
pickles
This is a far cry for the Bride of Christ coming in childlike assurance of faith knowing God's will to ask and receive healing, forgiveness of sin, daily provision, or any other positive promise of Father God.
Christians will have the same type of struggle when the Holy Spirit deals with the death of the self life. It can be VERY painful to deal with the things Jesus says are required of disciples:
Luke 14:25-27New King James Version (NKJV)
25 Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, 26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
Examples of our death to self on our "cross":
A spouse giving an ultimatum Jesus or me.
Leaving a secure well paying job because it does not fit in the Kingdom of God.
Leaving behind affection for all materialism.
Compromising or not to please children or family.
Giving up our rights to sue, protest, petition, etc for the sake of demonstrating the Kingdom of heaven to others.
Taking a stand against idols like Daniel, Shadrack, Meshack, and Abed-Nego did or compromising.
Disciplining our thought patterns or not i.e. Matthew 6:25.
Curbing our flesh on popular entertainment and culture.
Taking an unpopular stand on the principles of Christian behavior like swearing an oath, military service, jury duty, retaliation for wrongs, anonymous giving
Avoiding persecution as a Christian at all costs or REJOICING when it happens.
This is quite the challenge Red33. In scripture we do see passages that relate good health and prosperity, Proverbs 3:1-2 is a good one. In General, God does want us to be healthy both spiritually and physically; and by obeying our Lord, remaining in Him, this will lead us to better health and prosperity. Mainly because if we don't obey or remain in Him, the lifestyle in which this leads us to is harmful to us physically and spiritually. For example, excessive drinking ---> liver problems, Gambling ---> no money, peace with God --> stress free in regards to eternal destination in which also effects us now/today by feeling loved by God. Our attitude towards life effects our overall health.
That being said, God, however, works in mysterious ways in which we don't understand. My dad, started two churches from scratch, it takes faith to do that. Many times we as a family didn't have money, but on a few occasions he received anonymous checks, we weren't rich or prosperous in worldly standards, but we never went without our needs being met. However, my dad died at 67 from lymphoma. I wondered why God took him home so early? My dad was also a minister at large (fill in pastor) for 3 or 4 other churches during this time of his disease. And after that, he taught adult Sunday classes up until he physically couldn't. If the Lord healed and added years to his life I'm sure my dad would have continued teaching and preaching.
Then we have on the other hand, people who smoke and drink, dabble in all kinds of sins, and live to be 90. Go figure! Therefore we are told not to lean on our own understanding in proverbs 3:5 in which directly follows our prosperity verses of 1-2, and even after in verse 8. Perhaps we are looking a prosperity from human understanding and not a heavenly/godly understanding. We need to allow God to answer our prayers with a yes, no or wait, and give thanks for whatever His answer is.
Regarding 3 john 1:1-2
1 The Elder,
To the beloved Gaius, whom I love in truth:
2 Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers.
This seems more of a "personal greeting/prayer of good will and intentions" to me rather then scripture intended to mandate good health and wealth by faith to a believer. If greet any person, we don't say "I pray you fail in all things and become poor, may you live in despair, just as your soul withers. But it seems to me, that John puts an emphasis on integrity and esteem of Gaius's soul and is praying that God may match that by what we can see "all things and in health". For if God does grant this, it will only bring more glory to Him in heaven, because as we see in verses -5-8 John commends Gaius for His generosity.
This probably isn't sufficient to answer your challenge/question, but it's the best I can do.
Peace
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