Prophecy. Is this spiritual gift what you think it is?

[GreenNnice]

The word of God is alive today, I think we can all agree, we are to use it to defeat all attacks against Him. This said many times and many ways in Scripture, and, one of the ways His inspired words live alive now is by the gift of prophecy, I think, but, maybe, not for the reason you think.

Can we speak prophecy in a lighter sense than predicting the future? Yep. Yet speaking in 'this' way will change souls !!!
From the 'net, I pulled this help:

(1) Prophecy means to predict or foretell future events, Matthew 11:13; Matthew 15:7.
(2) to divine, to conjecture, to declare as a prophet might, Matthew 26:68, "Prophesy who smote thee."
(3) to celebrate the praises of God, being under a divine influence, Luke 1:67. This seems to have been a considerable part of the employment in the ancient schools of the prophet, 1 Samuel 10:5; 1 Samuel 19:20; 1 Samuel 30:15.
(4) to teach - as no small part of the office of the prophets was to teach the doctrines of religion, Matthew 7:22, "Have we not prophesied in thy name?"
(5) it denotes, then, in general, "to speak under a divine influence," whether in foretelling future events, in celebrating the praises of God, in instructing others in the duties of religion, or "in speaking foreign languages under that influence." In this last sense the word is used in the New Testament, to denote those who were miraculously endowed with the power of speaking foreign languages, Acts 19:6. The word is also used to denote "teaching, or speaking in intelligible language, in opposition to speaking a foreign tongue," 1 Corinthians 14:1-5. In this place it means that they would speak under a divine influence, and is specially applied to the power of speaking in a foreign tongue.
________()________
Don't we want to use His power to convict the lost? d
Didn't Paul say that an unbeliever was convicted by simple usage of using a prophesying believer that God is certainly among us.

If therefore the whole church should assemble together and all speak in tongues, and an ungifted man enters, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?
but if all prophesy, and an ubnbeliever on an ungifted mabn enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; the secrets of the heart are disclosed, so he will fall on his face and worship God, delcaring that God is certainly among us.
What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. let all things be done in edification."

Paul gives us a clear example of the power of the gift of prophecy. Witness ! Why would God take this gift, in particular, out of the church, it seems benign in this form for controversy, no one is predicting the end of the world or the final days are upon us and the light will become darkness, moon blood, etc.

Thoughts?

God bless you, Christ peeps, God is certainly among you. Stay with Him

 

[PrettyBelle]

I have a friend who God uses in this way and it's definitely a gift. I've seen this person talk to total strangers and know things that only the Lord would know about them. It's for edifying the body. Sometimes when I'm in prayer the Lord will even give me things to share with others but it's all for His glory. We are just vessels of God's gifts for edifying the person on the receiving end.
And yes it should be use for witnessing but unfortunately many don't understand or are even afraid of the gifts. I thought speaking in tounges was weird until I started studying scripture and received the gift. Every gift serves a purpose and used together as Paul states in scripture can sway someone towards God. But they are gifts that require true humbleness and dying to self to serve effective. To be an effective intercessor, prophet, pastor, or have other gifts required constant self examination to make sure our hearts are in tuned with God's word and will. And of course scripture says to test by scripture and the person's fruits using the gifts. None of these gifts should be used out of pride, but out of a true love of God and others to edify, and build up God's kingdom. And to God be all the glory.

 

[JaumeJ]

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Here above is basically what prophecy is for all who believe. Of course there are other forms of prophecy, but the above is the very most important. The Book tells us this.

 

[GRA]

The word of God is alive today, I think we can all agree, we are to use it to defeat all attacks against Him. This said many times and many ways in Scripture, and, one of the ways His inspired words live alive now is by the gift of prophecy, I think, but, maybe, not for the reason you think.

Can we speak prophecy in a lighter sense than predicting the future? Yep. Yet speaking in 'this' way will change souls !!!
From the 'net, I pulled this help:

(1) Prophecy means to predict or foretell future events, Matthew 11:13; Matthew 15:7.
(2) to divine, to conjecture, to declare as a prophet might, Matthew 26:68, "Prophesy who smote thee."
(3) to celebrate the praises of God, being under a divine influence, Luke 1:67. This seems to have been a considerable part of the employment in the ancient schools of the prophet, 1 Samuel 10:5; 1 Samuel 19:20; 1 Samuel 30:15.
(4) to teach - as no small part of the office of the prophets was to teach the doctrines of religion, Matthew 7:22, "Have we not prophesied in thy name?"
(5) it denotes, then, in general, "to speak under a divine influence," whether in foretelling future events, in celebrating the praises of God, in instructing others in the duties of religion, or "in speaking foreign languages under that influence." In this last sense the word is used in the New Testament, to denote those who were miraculously endowed with the power of speaking foreign languages, Acts 19:6. The word is also used to denote "teaching, or speaking in intelligible language, in opposition to speaking a foreign tongue," 1 Corinthians 14:1-5. In this place it means that they would speak under a divine influence, and is specially applied to the power of speaking in a foreign tongue.
________()________
Don't we want to use His power to convict the lost? d
Didn't Paul say that an unbeliever was convicted by simple usage of using a prophesying believer that God is certainly among us.



Paul gives us a clear example of the power of the gift of prophecy. Witness ! Why would God take this gift, in particular, out of the church, it seems benign in this form for controversy, no one is predicting the end of the world or the final days are upon us and the light will become darkness, moon blood, etc.

Thoughts?

God bless you, Christ peeps, God is certainly among you. Stay with Him

It "pays" to be very careful not to "mix" definitions - the "correct" definition is the "accepted" definition of the word actually used in the translation at the time it was translated. For example, if reading the KJV - you must use the "accepted" definition from the time it was translated - using a "modern" definition would be "dangerous" to say the least...

This is one of the reasons why modern bible translations can be so "dangerous" - there are so many definitions to words these days, it can really make a difference on how a word in scripture is viewed.

Based on the KJV, I would say that most of the definitions you got from the net are "problematic at best" -- #1 is correct, #2 is only partially correct, and the rest are "just out-right currupted (completely)"...

This is exactly and precisely what Satan wants!

He is "trying his best" to "currupt" the Word of God by changing the definitions of words so that people do not realize the original "true" meaning...

The "lighter sense" things you speak of ("Witness !") are not 'prophecy' - they are 'testimony'. There is a difference.

To "repeat a prophecy" is just that - repeating a prophecy.



.

 

[GRA]

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Here above is basically what prophecy is for all who believe. Of course there are other forms of prophecy, but the above is the very most important. The Book tells us this.

The word, idea, and meaning of 'prophecy' is not being defined here.

It is not saying that prophecy is "the testimony of Jesus" - or that "the testimony of Jesus" is a form of prophecy -- it is saying that "the testimony of Jesus" is "the life of" and "the driving force behind" prophecy.

The testimony of Jesus is - testimony.



.

 

[JaumeJ]

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

The subject of clause "for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy," is testimony, the verb is the word, is, from to be, leaving spirit of prophecy as the predicate nominative. The prepositional phrase, of prophecy, modifies the word, spirit. It is clear to me the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus, Yeshua, His Gospel, there is no other.

Where I posted this teaching from Revelation, it is also mentioned there are other forms of prophecy. My reply was not intended to open a controversy whether real or imagined. God bless you and hold you near always..................

 

[Ariel82]

wow greenie, love you but you need to check your net sources better....

number 4 is from the mouths of False prophets

many other issues but that should red flag the definitions..

perhaps u should reread the scriptures used and ck if they are used correctly in context?

"
(4) to teach - as no small part of the office of the prophets was to teach the doctrines of religion, Matthew 7:22, "Have we not prophesied in thy name?""

foretelling the future is called soothsaying.

prophecy is speaking God's plan for the world out loud through direct divine revelations.

teaching is totally different

 

[kenisyes]

Bob Dylan: "come writers and critics who prophesy with your pen" (from "The Times They Are a-Changin'")
Simon and Garfunkel: "The signs of the prophets are written on the subway walls and tenement halls, and whispered in the sounds of silence." (from "the Sounds of Silence")

Any relation? Is it just coincidence they wrote these songs right at the beginning of the Charismatic Renewal in the Catholic Church?

 

[zone]

Bob Dylan: "come writers and critics who prophesy with your pen" (from "The Times They Are a-Changin'")
Simon and Garfunkel: "The signs of the prophets are written on the subway walls and tenement halls, and whispered in the sounds of silence." (from "the Sounds of Silence")

Any relation? Is it just coincidence they wrote these songs right at the beginning of the Charismatic Renewal in the Catholic Church?

hi Ken.
nope, probably not a coincidence. they came onto the scene at the same time.
which buttresses my case entirely.
i mentioned in another thread i would eventually post on parallel movements (both christian and nonchristian...i still plan to)
i know we disagree.

when dylan wrote The Times They Are a-Changin he was a non-orthodox jew, not a christian.

bob dylan may have had a conversion to christianity (depending on your view) - he claimed so (The Vineyard movement), and recorded a few albums, which included many songs expounding basic christian teachings within the bounds of orthodoxy:

he later returned to judaism, however.
he would never be welcomed back into an orthodox synagogue as a member in good standing without renouncing Jesus Christ. in fact he would be completely shunned by any religious jewish community as an apostate (worthy of death according to Maimonides and others).

Dylan has remained silent on Jesus Christ (except cryptic remarks) in all the years since his 'born again' period.

Simon and Garfunkel are also jewish, not christian, and never have claimed to be Christians.

for that reason alone they could not be prophets, since they reject Jesus Christ.

even if Dylan were still a professing christian (which he is not), he's not a prophet, since he never said anything using the prophetic formula which identified a prophet "Thus saith The Lord"; and/or never wrote or spoke any authoritative words, he also repeatedly denied being a prophet in spite of millions calling him one.

he is an entertainer.
zone

 

[GreenNnice]

Uh, huh.

Church day, so, about gone a few hours , but I will not let the Word go void from here, as He leads me.

Scripture threads prophesy of many, throughout Scripture: men and women. Powerful is prophecy, it will be done in the name of the Lord, to the glory of God, as prettybells said, it's definitions are many, the prophesying in 1 Cor. 14 is how testimony?
Testimony, to me, is different. Our testimonies of how we accepted Jesus MOVE believers and unbelievers. God bless you for boldly, as He leads and wills, giving your testimony; it WILL change souls, HOW God changed you

God bless your mornings, serve Him

 

[GreenNnice]

God bless your mornings, serve Him oh, one last thing, a lot of times I think God just moves IN and OUT of you with a 'gifts,' healing, prophecy (light ways, NOT stuff that won't be KNOWN, i speak.to this later, no time now) . And, also Gos does everything, as Scripture directly states, for "His will and good pleasure."

And, as bellebeauty said, it will be edifying. Absolutely edifying. Your words must speak of Scripture 100% , or, else tget will come back void, or, worse. Key critical one is in the Spirit, not just a vessel, but a PURE vessel. God says that iscwhar we are, He, in actuality, edifies, we just water and olant , He provides the 'increase,' for faith, for 'all,' for He is 'all and all,' doesn't Scripture state?
-------
Edification is what? How are people built up?
Old testimony times? New?

 

[kenisyes]

hi Ken.
nope, probably not a coincidence. they came onto the scene at the same time.
which buttresses my case entirely.
i mentioned in another thread i would eventually post on parallel movements (both christian and nonchristian...i still plan to)
i know we disagree.

when dylan wrote The Times They Are a-Changin he was a non-orthodox jew, not a christian.

bob dylan may have had a conversion to christianity (depending on your view) - he claimed so (The Vineyard movement), and recorded a few albums, which included many songs expounding basic christian teachings within the bounds of orthodoxy:

he later returned to judaism, however.
he would never be welcomed back into an orthodox synagogue as a member in good standing without renouncing Jesus Christ. in fact he would be completely shunned by any religious jewish community as an apostate (worthy of death according to Maimonides and others).

Dylan has remained silent on Jesus Christ (except cryptic remarks) in all the years since his 'born again' period.

Simon and Garfunkel are also jewish, not christian, and never have claimed to be Christians.

for that reason alone they could not be prophets, since they reject Jesus Christ.

even if Dylan were still a professing christian (which he is not), he's not a prophet, since he never said anything using the prophetic formula which identified a prophet "Thus saith The Lord"; and/or never wrote or spoke any authoritative words, he also repeatedly denied being a prophet in spite of millions calling him one.

he is an entertainer.
zone

His religion is not what I was thinking of. Popular songwriters speak for the non-Christian culture. My point is, someone in that culture believed something called prophecy was happening at that time.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

Bob Dylan: "come writers and critics who prophesy with your pen" (from "The Times They Are a-Changin'")
Simon and Garfunkel: "The signs of the prophets are written on the subway walls and tenement halls, and whispered in the sounds of silence." (from "the Sounds of Silence")

"For the words of the prophets were written on the studio wall, concert hall"
Rush - The Spirit of Radio

"He says now do you believe in the one big song?"
Cake - Comfort Eagle

It's not just these songs that are "peculiar",
it's ALL music, poetry and art that's "peculiar".
These are just a few of them that specifically reference the key of David.

They are not "prophets" proper, but they are being used to seed the world with something miraculous that is yet to be noticed. First, the graven imagery and our rejection of "the wicked lost" must be stripped away, then the message can be seen.

Praise hidden inside the artistic works of those we shun.
"Poetic" Justice.
A point will be made.

All the daughters (things given) of music shall be brought low. (caused to humbly bow)

 

[kenisyes]

It's not just these songs that are "peculiar",
it's ALL music, poetry and art that's "peculiar".
These are just a few of them that specifically reference the key of David.

They are not "prophets" proper, but they are being used to seed the world with something miraculous that is yet to be noticed. First, the graven imagery and our rejection of "the wicked lost" must be stripped away, then the message can be seen.

Praise hidden inside the artistic works of those we shun.
"Poetic" Justice.
A point will be made.

Cf. Titus 2:14 and I Pt. 2:9. KJV. We are all "peculiar".

I'd love to get your take on what is the "Key of David" in these songs. I know several meanings, not all scriptural.

 

[GRA]

To "repeat a prophecy" is just that - repeating a prophecy.

I suppose I should clarify this a bit...

To "repeat a prophecy" - is not "being a prophet" - is not "prophesying" - it is merely telling what someone else actually "prophesied"...

(That is what I meant by this statement.)



.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

I'd love to get your take on what is the "Key of David" in these songs. I know several meanings, not all scriptural.

The ability to strip away the surface intent of any work of art, apply God's natural and biblical meanings of the words instead of what the words "appear" or are "meant" to say, and see the exact same repeating message that is in the bible.
In the case of "modernized" symbolism, like "cars" and "guns" you simply regress to the older versions of "chariots" and "arrows", but most importantly, the purpose and meaning behind "chariot" and "arrow".

However, you will only see it if Jesus opens the door for you. No man can open or shut with the key of David, only the Lamb.
However, I can personally promise you that it is real and point at the door.
There is a briar patch in front of it. It is a scary thing to accept, because people are afraid of "demons" in the music and make-believe "illuminati" influence, etc.
All hogwash, empowered only by our acknowledgment.
How many artists make works with conscious harmful intent? So then where are the demons?
In the artist or the listener?

This is how Paul was able to quote a poem about Zeus, without flinching or explaining. He knew this.
Because Zeus doesn't really exist. Only YHWH.
And messengers can influence anyone's work of art without the artist even knowing.
Just because they aren't followers of Jesus does not mean that angels can't manipulate their environment, and therefore their works.

Like I said, briar patch.
And a jaw dropper of a witness worth asking for.

 

[kenisyes]

What a neat application! Different from any I have heard. I gave you a like, but I'd like to give you several. I know the door, and I've had a lot of practice with the key. Didn't know it could be called that. Also an application of Rom. 8:27, I suppose? Thus, quite valid for this thread topic. Do we get an extra piece in the whole armor in Ephesians; like leggings for the brambles? Or do we cut them with the sword of the Word, or trample them with the shoes of the Gospel of peace to get in?

 

[WolfInOxHide]

Do we get an extra piece in the whole armor in Ephesians; like leggings for the brambles? Or do we cut them with the sword of the Word, or trample them with the shoes of the Gospel of peace to get in?

Well, I should have said there was a briar patch for me personally.
The apprehension that this experience could possibly be real, and once I saw that it was, the apprehension that it comes from God instead of "conspiracy."
I just asked, "be removed, briar patch!" and busted through my briars with the shield of faith.

 

[rassteve]

the gift of orophecy is meant to edifie the whole church 1 cor 14 3-4 but its up to us as believers to seek him out diligently and find what our gift as one part of the body of Christ is and like you said do every thing in order

 

[GreenNnice]

Prophecy is for edification. Desire it.

The opening post explains what it can all be.

But, it is, like all the other spiritual gifts, to be done in Love, without ANY pompous, self-righteous, boasting effect; we are only to boast in the Lord, what He has done for us and that 'divine' thought too is done with the message ofcHis discerning leading, for what He's done for us, as 1 Cor.14 states shows that 'certainly, God, is in this place,' and, God says to,vand, no one's touched this, that 'in the last days,' which refers to when? But, when this is, and, it certainly does not refer to the completion of the canon of Scripture (bible), is when 'sons and daughters will prophesy,' and when God will pour out His Spirit on mankind, too.

Wondering now, since spiritual gifts are not DEAD, just ceased, in some (all?) cessassionists minds, will they start up again in the last days, as this prophecy I speak of from author, Luke, in book of Acts, chapter 2, written through Him?

And, what of the apostles' "children" receiving this promised gift of the Holy Spirit? Doesn't this further refute proof that 'the perfect comes' is not the canon of Scripture completed?

16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 “‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. 18 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke. 20 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. 21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’ c

22 “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, d put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:

“‘I saw the Lord always before me. Because he is at my right hand, I will not be shaken. 26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices; my body also will live in hope, 27 because you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay. 28 You have made known to me the paths of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence.’ e

29 “Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, f that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 35 until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”’ g

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”