Faith Comes by Hearing, but Obedience Comes From Fear

[Tan]

Hi Tan,

You only quote part of Matt 19 and leave the most important part out.

Matt 19:20,21
The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”


That young man kept the law (just as your doctrine demands) and note how even he realized he still lacked.
And note Jesus' response. If you want to be perfect, give up all and come, follow Me.


Matt 19:16-21 reveals the 2 different covenants.
Righteousness by works of the law or righteousness by faith.


When we believe/follow Jesus we are perfected by his one offering (Heb 10:14).



As for the law/commandments that you preach, note 1Tim 1:8
we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully


How is the law to be used/obeyed?
James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.


So if the law is applied then perfect obedience is required for righteousness.
Hence my question to you is, after you received Christ did you immediately obey the law/commandments perfectly?

That young man kept the law (just as your doctrine demands) and note how even he realized he still lacked.
And note Jesus' response. If you want to be perfect, give up all and come, follow Me.

Thats true, but that another lesson within itself, the world at large need to understand the basic, like which is the Lord sabbath day...which is on the seventh day of the week (saturday). Lets start with the simple commandment that people can't follow today, let alone deal with other things as that young man Jesus was talking to.

In (Ex.31:16-17) (v.16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (v.17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. You see that the Sabbath day is a sign between God and His people forever. Israel was His people then and whoever chooses to obey Him now are His people. Is this law for the children of Israel only? No. (Leviticus 24: 22) "Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: For I am the Lord your God."

God intended for the weekly Sabbath (this word means rest in Hebrew) to be a refreshing blessing for mankind. God knew that human beings would need periodic rest and change from work. But the purpose for keeping God's Sabbath goes far beyond simply resting on that day.

 

[Blain]

you seem to misunderstand these scriptures. they do say how his law is perfect they do speak of fear of the lord is clean and rightious but again fear= respect. also the fruit of faith is obedience to his commandments but we are not bound to the law like were before christ died.

 

[Tan]

And what are our works? Jesus was asked this in John 6:29. He answered:
Believe on him whom he hath sent.

As for whether the law/commandments count as works, lets see what scriptures say.
Rom 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" showed his faith by his works of believing on Jesus. There were absolutely no works of the law involved in the salvation of that thief.

Hence we see that those preaching that righteousness/salvation is proved by obedience/works of the law/commandments, they are in fact showing by their works that their faith is dead, being alone. They do not believe in Jesus. Instead of being righteous through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith, they instead establish their own righteousness by works of the law. They refuse to accept that Christ cleansed them and made them holy and righteous through his one offering.

Let's go into Romans chapter 3 and reread that verse with understanding. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:20)

Now, we have both laws within this verse. Notice the first part of the verse, "by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight." What law is this? It is the sacrificial law. Why? Remember in Hebrews the 10th chapter verse 4 it states, "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." So, by the deeds of the sacrificial law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.

Now, look at the second part of the verse, "for by the law is the knowledge of sin." What law is this? The commandments. Why? Sin is the transgression of the law (1John 3:4), and if there is no law how would any of us have knowledge of sin. Let's take a look at the next verse.

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (Romans 3:21)

Notice what Paul says, "The righteousness of God without the law is manifested." What law is this? It is the sacrificial law. Why? And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (Colossians 2:13-14). We must understand this one thing brothers and sisters, the Bible never contradicts itself. The false prophets are the ones that contradict the Book. Paul and all the rest of the Prophets and Apostles are on the same page and are teaching us to keep the law. If we are not familiar with the entire bible, we will make the same mistake as these false preachers that think there was only one law given to Moses. Look at the last part of the verse, "being witnessed by the law and the prophets." If we read the law and the prophets, once we get to the New Testament we know that Jesus was manifested to take away a law that was contrary to us, that could never take away sin. He became our final sacrifice nailing the blood ordinances to His cross.

 

[Blain]

I am not saying to not follow the law but do it because you love him not out of fear, and also part of something else paul said..Philippians3:8-9 about half way through This allows me to have christ and belong to him. now i am right with god, not because i followed the law but
(because i believed in christ. god uses my faith to make me right with him)

 

[haz]

Hi Tan,

Debate over Sabbath and your doctrine's splitting the law up is only going to result in disagreement, as many previous debates by various bloggers on forums always show.

But what we do see under your doctrine is that Christians are still charged with "sin" (transgression of the law). And this in spite of the cross and us being set free from the law (Rom 8:2, Gal 5:18, Rom 10:4).

Let's see what God says though.

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

1Pet 4:1
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered (crucified) for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind (our old man crucified with him, Rom 6:6): for he that hath suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6) hath ceased from sin;

1John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The error doctrine you follow denies this, still charging Christians with "sin" (transgression of the law) even though they have been justified by God. Even though Christians have been cleansed by the blood of Christ your doctrine denies they have been cleansed unless they have obedience/works of the law.

Rom 3:25 says:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,

As only past sin has been remitted, then what of sins/transgressions of the law committed after receiving Christ. We can't crucify him again for subsequent sins.
I pray you will consider this and realize the error of the false doctrine you follow.

We have been cleansed by the blood of Christ. Do not call unclean what God has cleansed Acts 11:8-10
Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

 

[Tan]

you seem to misunderstand these scriptures. they do say how his law is perfect they do speak of fear of the lord is clean and rightious but again fear= respect. also the fruit of faith is obedience to his commandments but we are not bound to the law like were before christ died.

Those are word from your mouth and not the Lord's mouth. Jesus said in John 5: 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. Evil to God is not what you think Evil is, Evil to God is the trangression of the Law (commandments). Now in (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

 

[Blain]

Those are word from your mouth and not the Lord's mouth. Jesus said in John 5: 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. Evil to God is not what you think Evil is, Evil to God is the trangression of the Law (commandments). Now in (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Tan please don't take offence to this k? but I feel sad for you, If only you could know of the amazingly love Jesus has for us. If this love is made known to you like i said in another post your eye's will soften, you sould would melt. you would feel such love and compassion inside you. one you just cannot explain. I can tell by your posts you have not met this love or perhaps it was made known to you but you were not yet ready to accept it? I am going to pray for this to happen and again please do not get angry

 

[Tan]

I am not saying to not follow the law but do it because you love him not out of fear, and also part of something else paul said..Philippians3:8-9 about half way through This allows me to have christ and belong to him. now i am right with god, not because i followed the law but
(because i believed in christ. god uses my faith to make me right with him)

What Paul said in Philippians 3: 8,9...Now this is true, but you have to understand that Paul kept the Law (commandment) statues and Judgements, also the Holy and HIgh Days which is still good to this day. Paul letting us know his works, plus thing he suffer having this faith in God. Now the most of world have a problem with keeping the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week. Until you step up to the plate and start keeping these commandments (obediene), those verses is over your head!! Paul said in (1Corinthians 9: (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway.

 

[Tan]

Hi Tan,

Debate over Sabbath and your doctrine's splitting the law up is only going to result in disagreement, as many previous debates by various bloggers on forums always show.

But what we do see under your doctrine is that Christians are still charged with "sin" (transgression of the law). And this in spite of the cross and us being set free from the law (Rom 8:2, Gal 5:18, Rom 10:4).

Let's see what God says though.

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

1Pet 4:1
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered (crucified) for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind (our old man crucified with him, Rom 6:6): for he that hath suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6) hath ceased from sin;

1John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The error doctrine you follow denies this, still charging Christians with "sin" (transgression of the law) even though they have been justified by God. Even though Christians have been cleansed by the blood of Christ your doctrine denies they have been cleansed unless they have obedience/works of the law.

Rom 3:25 says:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,

As only past sin has been remitted, then what of sins/transgressions of the law committed after receiving Christ. We can't crucify him again for subsequent sins.
I pray you will consider this and realize the error of the false doctrine you follow.

We have been cleansed by the blood of Christ. Do not call unclean what God has cleansed Acts 11:8-10
Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Hi Tan,

Debate over Sabbath and your doctrine's splitting the law up is only going to result in disagreement, as many previous debates by various bloggers on forums always show.

Hi Haz...What I'm trying to do is cut the confusion and show people other writing of Paul that not included in there doctrine. Now Jesus word are crystal clear so there should be no misunderstand when reading Jesus words. Jesus said Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19)

Now, if the Jesus said think not that I came to destroy the law, lets reason together, what do destroy mean; to take away, etc, right. So that simply means that the law is still on the table and the prophets

Jesus couldn't destroy the prophet because he had to fulfilled all of what the prophets wrote about Jesus, and what he had to do.

Sunday doctrine is a turn around mind set. The doctrine focus mostly on the New Testament and mostly on Paul writing for a reason. The doctrine begin to contradict Paul writing, while using Paul writing, because the mindset is carnal minded not from God, but man. You see, in the Council of Trent (1545 A.D.), the church leaders ruled that "tradition" is of as great authority as the Bible! They believed that God had given them the authority to change the Bible any way they pleased. By "tradition" they meant human teachings.

The sun was the main god of the heathen even back as far as ancient Babylon. Since they worshiped the sun on Sunday, the compromising church leaders could see that if they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, it would accomplish several things. Number one - it would separate them from the Jews who were hated by many of the Romans and who, along with Jesus, (Luke 4:16), had been worshiping on Saturday from the beginning (and still do today). Number two - it would make it much easier for the pagans to come into the church if the Christians met on the same day that the pagan world did.

It worked well. Pagans flocked in by the thousands. Satan's plan of compromise was doing its baleful work. The change was attempted gradually but many of the true hearted, loyal Christians were alarmed. They came to the leaders and wanted to know why they had dared tamper with the law of Almighty God! The church leaders knew this would happen - and they had an answer ready. It's a masterpiece. If a person doesn't know the bible well it sounds good.
The people were told that they were worshiping on Sunday now because Jesus rose from the dead on that day.

There's not even one verse in the Bible that tells us to do this, but that's what they were told. Isn't it amazing! Maybe you've even heard that yourself!
When Emperor Constantine became a Christian, Christianity became the state religion you remember. As thousands of sun-worshipers flocked into the church, it wasn't long before they had a dominating influence. Most of his top officials had been sun-worshipers. Because the Roman government was getting shaky, Constantine consulted with his aides and with the church officials in Rome.

"What shall we do? How can we unite and stabilize the government?"

The counsel of the church leaders was timely.

"Pass a Sunday law. Force everyone to cease work and honor Sunday."

That was it! It would satisfy the sun-worshiping pagans, and unite pagans, Christians, and the Roman empire as never before.

The year is 321 A.D. Constantine, yielding to the suggestion of church leaders passes the first Sunday law! Here it is, straight out of the record:
"Let all the judges and town people, and the occupation of all trades rest on the venerable day of the sun" Edict of March 7, 321 A.D. Corpus Juris Civilis Cod., lib. 3, tit. 12, Lex. 3.

 

[haz]

Hi Haz...What I'm trying to do is cut the confusion and show people other writing of Paul that not included in there doctrine.

Again, we'll have to disagree. You are misunderstanding scriptures, following a deceitfully complicated/confusing doctrine that misses the simplicity that is in Christ, 2Cor 11:3.

Jesus did fulfill the law for us. We are now justified, righteous, holy, perfected, and without sin, in him (by faith).

But under the doctrine you follow, Christians are still charged with sin/transgression of the law. This contradicts scripture, as my earlier posts showed.

Under the doctrine you follow Christians are unclean.
But God says do not call unclean what He has cleansed.

 

[know1]

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

1Pet 4:1
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered (crucified) for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind (our old man crucified with him, Rom 6:6): for he that hath suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6) hath ceased from sin;

1John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The error doctrine you follow denies this, still charging Christians with "sin" (transgression of the law) even though they have been justified by God. Even though Christians have been cleansed by the blood of Christ your doctrine denies they have been cleansed unless they have obedience/works of the law.

Rom 3:25 says:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,

We have been cleansed by the blood of Christ. Do not call unclean what God has cleansed Acts 11:8-10
Rom 8:33

I can see how this subject could be confusing to many, even as I was for a long time, but until one seeks God with a pure and honest heart, they will not be able to see anything other than what they want, as it has to be given to them by God.
When we become born again as described in Eze, we receive the Spirit of Christ in us.
Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
1John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
God calls that Spirit of Christ and of the Holy Ghost a 'seed', and that seed remains in the person whatever they do.
And, God removed the stony heart we had and gave us a new or fresh heart and spirit man.
The reason why you don't call that which was made clean, unclean or common, and why whoever is born of God does not sin, is because it is no longer them that you are calling unclean. It is Christ.
Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
How did Saul/Paul persecute Jesus when He was already in heaven? Why, when Paul did something to the church or a Christian, he did it to Jesus?
Mat_25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
The bible says that we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus and that our righteousness is not our own because we are crucified with Christ yet we are still alive, but it is not us that lives, but Christ that lives in us and the life which we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God who causes us to live and move and have our being in Him.

 

[haz]

I can see how this subject could be confusing to many, even as I was for a long time, but until one seeks God with a pure and honest heart, they will not be able to see anything other than what they want, as it has to be given to them by God.
When we become born again as described in Eze, we receive the Spirit of Christ in us.
Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
1John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
God calls that Spirit of Christ and of the Holy Ghost a 'seed', and that seed remains in the person whatever they do.
And, God removed the stony heart we had and gave us a new or fresh heart and spirit man.
The reason why you don't call that which was made clean, unclean or common, and why whoever is born of God does not sin, is because it is no longer them that you are calling unclean. It is Christ.
Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
How did Saul/Paul persecute Jesus when He was already in heaven? Why, when Paul did something to the church or a Christian, he did it to Jesus?
Mat_25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
The bible says that we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus and that our righteousness is not our own because we are crucified with Christ yet we are still alive, but it is not us that lives, but Christ that lives in us and the life which we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God who causes us to live and move and have our being in Him.

Amen.

And all this is not determined/proved by our physical behavior as the body is dead because of sin, Rom 8:10.
It's all about Christ in us.
Our works are to believe in Jesus, John 6:29.

 

[zone]

The sun was the main god of the heathen even back as far as ancient Babylon. Since they worshiped the sun on Sunday, the compromising church leaders could see that if they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, it would accomplish several things. Number one - it would separate them from the Jews who were hated by many of the Romans and who, along with Jesus, (Luke 4:16), had been worshiping on Saturday from the beginning (and still do today).

and how's that Saturday Sabbath working out for the jews, Tan?
is Saturday Sabbath going to save them?

Hebrews 4
1Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. 2For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.a 3For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,

“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”

although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” 5And again in this passage he said,

“They shall not enter my rest.”

6Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”

8For if Joshua had given them rest, Godb would not have spoken of another day later on. 9So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

 

[Tan]

Again, we'll have to disagree. You are misunderstanding scriptures, following a deceitfully complicated/confusing doctrine that misses the simplicity that is in Christ, 2Cor 11:3.

Jesus did fulfill the law for us. We are now justified, righteous, holy, perfected, and without sin, in him (by faith).

But under the doctrine you follow, Christians are still charged with sin/transgression of the law. This contradicts scripture, as my earlier posts showed.

Under the doctrine you follow Christians are unclean.
But God says do not call unclean what He has cleansed.

Looks like you not attention to what I'm posting, just free speaking. All that truth I post and you just look right over all of it!!

 

[Tan]

and how's that Saturday Sabbath working out for the jews, Tan?
is Saturday Sabbath going to save them?

Hebrews 4
1Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. 2For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.a 3For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,

“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”

although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” 5And again in this passage he said,

“They shall not enter my rest.”

6Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”

8For if Joshua had given them rest, Godb would not have spoken of another day later on. 9So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

and how's that Saturday Sabbath working out for the jews, Tan?
is Saturday Sabbath going to save them?

The question you should be asking is, doing nothing going to save you! Jesus left instruction and people just look right over Jesus writing and run to Paul writing and twist it up! Shame! Yes the sabbath work for the Jews, the real true Jews that keep it, not the people you think are Jews over east now. The rest Paul is talking about in Hebrew 4 points to the future, which is the purpose of the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (saturday) and what it leads to.

 

[Tan]

The Catholic authorities proclaim: "The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church!" Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, Mo., as taken from History of the Sabbath. pg. 802

The Biblical Sabbath, however, is and has always been on the seventh day of the week, or Saturday. Despite the prevalence of Sunday worship in Christendom, we must look to the Bible as our authority and keep the seventh day Sabbath ordained by God.
Go into your history books and prove me wrong, I challenge you to do so. Sisters and brothers I pray that you read your bibles for yourselves and pray for understanding.

And don’t let some unlearned false preacher deceive you. The Sabbath of the Lord has, and will always be the seventh day of the week (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday) and has not been changed. I know that some will say, well we don’t know if the seventh day in Jesus time is the same seventh day now. Well the bible says: (Mat 28:1) In the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. Now this proves that in Jesus day when the Sabbath (Saturday) ended the first day of the week (Sunday) began. Guess what? In our day when the seventh day ends the first day of the week begins, no change!

 

[Dotann]

When the bible speaks about "Fear' its actually talking about respect, not really being afraid like to run away in tear and trembling of God. God does not want us to fear HIm this way? He is our loving Father and as any "good" father does, they want a relationship with their children so close and so wonderfuly rich that each can say anything to the other without the other loosing hope that the other will abandon them. So respect is a very important thing!

If we are to Fear God in this aspect thats mentioned above, how can this relationship grow and mature? In fact, many places in the scriptures it tells us to not fear the Lord for He is with us and thus we can count on Him to always be there for us even in the darkest times.

Grace, and mercy are all precious gifts through the blood of Christ to all who recieve salvation in Jesus. But for one to say obedience comes from fear then did Jesus come hear out of fear too when he saved us from our sins when He died for us, or was it out of love? Isnt love stronger than fear? For my bible says that love casts out fear? So how does this logic work when it comes to Jesus' love for us? His love was the most perfect love of all? And arent we to use His love as our example of what true love is to be in the first place? Isnt His ways, His walk and His reasoning how we are to live?
For me, i choose to live and honour God out of love for it is stronger than fear and He will help me to obey him for i love Him more than anything as i will never be afraid of Him any day. He is the one truth i can always rely on always!!! He is my air i breathe and i will always i love him more than i fear... I have a lot of work to work on, for i am a work in progress (you know the clay pot), but i am farther now than i use to be, and thank God with His help I'm on my way... thank you Jesus for loving me!

 

[Tan]

When the bible speaks about "Fear' its actually talking about respect, not really being afraid like to run away in tear and trembling of God. God does not want us to fear HIm this way? He is our loving Father and as any "good" father does, they want a relationship with their children so close and so wonderfuly rich that each can say anything to the other without the other loosing hope that the other will abandon them. So respect is a very important thing!

If we are to Fear God in this aspect thats mentioned above, how can this relationship grow and mature? In fact, many places in the scriptures it tells us to not fear the Lord for He is with us and thus we can count on Him to always be there for us even in the darkest times.

Grace, and mercy are all precious gifts through the blood of Christ to all who recieve salvation in Jesus. But for one to say obedience comes from fear then did Jesus come hear out of fear too when he saved us from our sins when He died for us, or was it out of love? Isnt love stronger than fear? For my bible says that love casts out fear? So how does this logic work when it comes to Jesus' love for us? His love was the most perfect love of all? And arent we to use His love as our example of what true love is to be in the first place? Isnt His ways, His walk and His reasoning how we are to live?
For me, i choose to live and honour God out of love for it is stronger than fear and He will help me to obey him for i love Him more than anything as i will never be afraid of Him any day. He is the one truth i can always rely on always!!! He is my air i breathe and i will always i love him more than i fear... I have a lot of work to work on, for i am a work in progress (you know the clay pot), but i am farther now than i use to be, and thank God with His help I'm on my way... thank you Jesus for loving me!

When the bible speaks about "Fear' its actually talking about respect, not really being afraid like to run away in tear and trembling of God. God does not want us to fear HIm this way?

I can see that you don't read that much Bible, so I am going to take you in the future in Isaiah 66: 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Now lets see what transgress means in the BIble. Lets go into (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

 

[Tan]

Remember that it was Christ: (1Peter:2:22) Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Jesus did no sin. But what is sin? (1John:3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. So every time you break (transgress) one of God’s commandments you have committed sin. And one of those commandments is to: (Ex.20:8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

That’s why Jesus went to church on the seventh day; it is a sin to say that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath, because it is not Christ like! Just like it’s a sin to steal, kill, and commit adultery and so-forth. This is the day He would naturally have observed, because He originally made the Sabbath by resting and ordained that it be kept holy from that time forward. I’ve heard it said that you can praise the Lord any day and every day. Sure you can and you are supposed to. But you are commanded to set aside one day of the week that the Lord blessed, sanctified and made holy and that day is Saturday.

 

[Blain]

I can see that you don't read that much Bible, so I am going to take you in the future in Isaiah 66: 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Now lets see what transgress means in the BIble. Lets go into (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. Exactly but also If you knew god you would know he does not condem us for sin anymore because he loves us too much and wants us all to be saved. The god you see in your mind sounds like a god of wrath and punishment not a god of love and peace. You seem to be very good at taking sctipture ou of context to fit your own agenda, now why not reverse that and instead use it to save souls, which in your mind may be what your doing but in reality you are just being toyed with by the devil.