Christians are Israel

[WolfInOxHide]

You are speaking of Jesus descending to abraham's bussom?

Speaking of Abraham's Bosom, along with "slept with his Fathers", try this one on for size...

equates simply to being written in the Lamb's book of Life?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He says He did.

Jeremiah 3:8
I observed that it was because unfaithful Israel had committed adultery that I had sent her away and had given her a certificate of divorce. Nevertheless, her treacherous sister Judah was not afraid but also went and prostituted herself

Now your backtracking. God allowed isreal back in even after this.. So your use of this passage does not fit. Even you all say dan 9 was fillfilled in 70 ad whihc was LONG past this saying. so the word divorce here can not mean what you think it means, unless God contradicted himself.

Joshua 21
Cities and Pasturelands Allotted to Levi
1Then the heads of the fathers’ houses of the Levites came to Eleazar the priest and to Joshua the son of Nun and to the heads of the fathers’ houses of the tribes of the people of Israel. 2And they said to them at Shiloh in the land of Canaan, “The LORD commanded through Moses that we be given cities to dwell in, along with their pasturelands for our livestock.” 3So by command of the LORD the people of Israel gave to the Levites the following cities and pasturelands out of their inheritance.

4The lot came out for the clans of the Kohathites. So those Levites who were descendants of Aaron the priest received by lot from the tribes of Judah, Simeon, and Benjamin, thirteen cities.

5And the rest of the Kohathites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Ephraim, from the tribe of Dan and the half-tribe of Manasseh, ten cities.

6The Gershonites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Issachar, from the tribe of Asher, from the tribe of Naphtali, and from the half-tribe of Manasseh in Bashan, thirteen cities.

7The Merarites according to their clans received from the tribe of Reuben, the tribe of Gad, and the tribe of Zebulun, twelve cities.

8These cities and their pasturelands the people of Israel gave by lot to the Levites, as the LORD had commanded through Moses.

9Out of the tribe of the people of Judah and the tribe of the people of Simeon they gave the following cities mentioned by name, 10which went to the descendants of Aaron, one of the clans of the Kohathites who belonged to the people of Levi; since the lot fell to them first. 11They gave them Kiriath-arba (Arba being the father of Anak), that is Hebron, in the hill country of Judah, along with the pasturelands around it. 12But the fields of the city and its villages had been given to Caleb the son of Jephunneh as his possession.

13And to the descendants of Aaron the priest they gave Hebron, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands, Libnah with its pasturelands, 14Jattir with its pasturelands, Eshtemoa with its pasturelands, 15Holon with its pasturelands, Debir with its pasturelands, 16Ain with its pasturelands, Juttah with its pasturelands, Beth-shemesh with its pasturelands—nine cities out of these two tribes; 17then out of the tribe of Benjamin, Gibeon with its pasturelands, Geba with its pasturelands, 18Anathoth with its pasturelands, and Almon with its pasturelands—four cities. 19The cities of the descendants of Aaron, the priests, were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.

20As to the rest of the Kohathites belonging to the Kohathite clans of the Levites, the cities allotted to them were out of the tribe of Ephraim. 21To them were given Shechem, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands in the hill country of Ephraim, Gezer with its pasturelands, 22Kibzaim with its pasturelands, Beth-horon with its pasturelands—four cities; 23and out of the tribe of Dan, Elteke with its pasturelands, Gibbethon with its pasturelands, 24Aijalon with its pasturelands, Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—four cities; 25and out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Taanach with its pasturelands, and Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—two cities. 26The cities of the clans of the rest of the Kohathites were ten in all with their pasturelands.

27And to the Gershonites, one of the clans of the Levites, were given out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Golan in Bashan with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, and Beeshterah with its pasturelands—two cities; 28and out of the tribe of Issachar, Kishion with its pasturelands, Daberath with its pasturelands, 29Jarmuth with its pasturelands, En-gannim with its pasturelands—four cities; 30and out of the tribe of Asher, Mishal with its pasturelands, Abdon with its pasturelands, 31Helkath with its pasturelands, and Rehob with its pasturelands—four cities; 32and out of the tribe of Naphtali, Kedesh in Galilee with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Hammoth-dor with its pasturelands, and Kartan with its pasturelands—three cities. 33The cities of the several clans of the Gershonites were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.

34And to the rest of the Levites, the Merarite clans, were given out of the tribe of Zebulun, Jokneam with its pasturelands, Kartah with its pasturelands, 35Dimnah with its pasturelands, Nahalal with its pasturelands—four cities; 36and out of the tribe of Reuben, Bezer with its pasturelands, Jahaz with its pasturelands, 37Kedemoth with its pasturelands, and Mephaath with its pasturelands—four cities; 38and out of the tribe of Gad, Ramoth in Gilead with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Mahanaim with its pasturelands, 39Heshbon with its pasturelands, Jazer with its pasturelands—four cities in all. 40As for the cities of the several Merarite clans, that is, the remainder of the clans of the Levites, those allotted to them were in all twelve cities.

41The cities of the Levites in the midst of the possession of the people of Israel were in all forty-eight cities with their pasturelands. 42These cities each had its pasturelands around it. So it was with all these cities.

43Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. 44And the LORD gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the LORD had given all their enemies into their hands. 45Not one word of all the good promises that the LORD had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.

we have been over this. God did not say i will give it to your once. then I met my end of the promise. he said I give it to you forever. And not only to you. but every descendent who will follow after you. Forever. does the word forever not mean forever?

Think about what your saying. God fulfilled his promise to me also when he gave me hid gift. Is God going to take that gift away and say he already fulfilled his promise to me. now he is going to divorce me because i did not live up to his standard?

What you are claiming speaks BAD about God. It says he will not keep his promises, which were based on gifts he gave us..

 

[zone]

i just found this, only glanced over it. never seen it before.
pretty hard to refute:

Three Promises to Abraham Fulfilled!

Three 3 Promises to Abraham fulfilled < click

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i just found this, only glanced over it. never seen it before.
pretty hard to refute:

Three Promises to Abraham Fulfilled!

Three 3 Promises to Abraham fulfilled < click

I will be honest sis. I have never seen anyone work so hard to try to prove them self right, and not look at what is being said.

1st error.

[FONT=&quot]1.[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Pre-tribulation Rapture and dispensationalists teach the false doctrine that God failed to fulfill the three promises he made to Abraham in fleshly Israel and the church (spiritual Israel)[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]for one, I am not pre-trib, second. I have NEVER STATED God has failed to fulfill anything. and third I have never heard of three promises. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]There is a HUGE difference between saying God has failed. and saying the promise still stands. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2nd error[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]c.[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Therefore God gave them all the land and premillennialism is utterly refuted![/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
No, it is not refuted. Because God did not say once you get it, his promise is fulfilled. He said he gave it 1. To ever generation forever. and two he said he gave it forever. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Gen 13: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]14 And the Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: “Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are—northward, southward, eastward, and westward; 15 for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants[b] forever.

Gen 15: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]18[/FONT]“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”[FONT=&quot]

Gen 17: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Last I read, forever means forever. Everlasting means forever. And all the land means all.
Not a one time deal. God is still fulfilling his promise. The land still belongs to Abrahams children, they just do not possess it because of sin.

This was prety sad zone, It did not even take one paragraph for me to competely refute what this guy said.
[/FONT]

 

[Bookends]

Even the disciples. after walking with Christ for 3 years, and continually getting shut down about how the law of Moses will not save anyone, or make them righteous before god, at the very end still believed Christ would return and restore Israel. And jesus did not correct them (acts 1) in fact, he did the opposite. he told them it was not for them to know the time when this would take place..

I think Jesus did correct them, but in a subtle way. I think Jesus had the eternal kingdom in mind when answering this question knowing full well that the disciples were thinking of a physical kingdom, because for one, he said it's not for them to know (which goes well with Matt. 24:26 and second, He diverts their attention away from Jerusalem, not towards it, and puts the emphasis on the world (the great commission).

Couple this with Jesus' statements, "My kingdom is not of this world".. and "'Because of this I say to you, that the reign of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth its fruit;" (YLT) and I don't see how you could warrant another Godly Jewish kingdom here on earth before the eternal state.

Our eschatology does effect how we all interpret certain passage of the bible, amazing isn't it that we see the opposite here. Peace bro!!

 

[Bookends]

did you read my post on the beasts of daniel?

To be honest, I only got this far:

Dan 2

Head - Gold Babylon
Chest and arms - Silver - belly and thighs bronze - media persia
legs - iron - Rome
feet - iron and clay - Rome 2

First, I'm sorry it takes me so long to reply.

Second, I only read that far because I disagree with your assessment of the statue. The statue displays 4 kingdoms:

Head= Babylon
Chest and arms = Media Persia
Belly and thighs= Greece
Legs and feet = ancient Rome (there is no prophetic gap between the legs and feet of iron and clay).

These four kingdoms are the same 4 kingdoms in vision Daniel has in Chapter 7. Only 4 kingdoms, not 5. All the kingdoms, Human parts of the statue run together continuously with no breaks between the head, chest, belly, and legs. The stone carved out without human hand is Christ and the Church, His Kingdom, Our kingdom in which Christ established at the Cross and that brought the ancient Roman empire down, the 3 other kingdoms (that where absorbed by the Roman Kingdom) and all other (present) kingdoms down and Christ reigns now! It's a spiritual reality soon to be a physical one.

I should give you the respect and common decency you deserve and read it all, but I didn't, sorry...I will go back, read it and disagree... lol...Peace bro

 

[zone]

I will be honest sis. I have never seen anyone work so hard to try to prove them self right, and not look at what is being said.

1st error.

[FONT=&quot]1.[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Pre-tribulation Rapture and dispensationalists teach the false doctrine that God failed to fulfill the three promises he made to Abraham in fleshly Israel and the church (spiritual Israel)[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]for one, I am not pre-trib, second. I have NEVER STATED God has failed to fulfill anything. and third I have never heard of three promises. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]There is a HUGE difference between saying God has failed. and saying the promise still stands. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2nd error[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]c.[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Therefore God gave them all the land and premillennialism is utterly refuted![/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
No, it is not refuted. Because God did not say once you get it, his promise is fulfilled. He said he gave it 1. To ever generation forever. and two he said he gave it forever. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Gen 13: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]14 And the Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: &#8220;Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are&#8212;northward, southward, eastward, and westward; 15 for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants[b] forever.

Gen 15: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]18[/FONT]&#8220;To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates&#8212; 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.&#8221;[FONT=&quot]

Gen 17: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.&#8221;

Last I read, forever means forever. Everlasting means forever. And all the land means all.
Not a one time deal. God is still fulfilling his promise. The land still belongs to Abrahams children, they just do not possess it because of sin.

This was prety sad zone, It did not even take one paragraph for me to competely refute what this guy said.
[/FONT]

okay EG.
i know you're not pretrib...but the hermeneutic is the same.

for now, let's forget about Peter saying this earth is going up in smoke....not to look for anything here.

if Jerusalem which now is (Palestine, Canaan, Israel) belongs eternally to God's children, who are God's children?
who are the children of the promise?
who are Abraham's offspring?

Romans 9:8
In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

who are God's children?

 

[peterT]

To be honest, I only got this far:



First, I'm sorry it takes me so long to reply.

Second, I only read that far because I disagree with your assessment of the statue. The statue displays 4 kingdoms:

Head= Babylon
Chest and arms = Media Persia
Belly and thighs= Greece
Legs and feet = ancient Rome (there is no prophetic gap between the legs and feet of iron and clay).

These four kingdoms are the same 4 kingdoms in vision Daniel has in Chapter 7. Only 4 kingdoms, not 5. All the kingdoms, Human parts of the statue run together continuously with no breaks between the head, chest, belly, and legs. The stone carved out without human hand is Christ and the Church, His Kingdom, Our kingdom in which Christ established at the Cross and that brought the ancient Roman empire down, the 3 other kingdoms (that where absorbed by the Roman Kingdom) and all other (present) kingdoms down and Christ reigns now! It's a spiritual reality soon to be a physical one.

I should give you the respect and common decency you deserve and read it all, but I didn't, sorry...I will go back, read it and disagree... lol...Peace bro

Zone there are 5 kingdoms in Daniel 2. NOT 4

(1)….32This image's head was of fine gold,
(2)….his breast and his arms of silver,
(3)….his belly and his thighs of brass,
(4)….33His legs of iron, 40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron
(5)….his feet part of iron and part of clay. , the kingdom shall be divided 42And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.



Before the head of gold/Babylon was Assyria, and before Assyria was Egypt in Bible history.

That makes 7 kingdoms altogether in Bible history


There are 7 kingdoms altogether, and john lived in the days of Rome the legs of iron,. As john put it the “ONE IS” and the other “IS NOT YET COME” and 5 have fallen

10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

 

[Bookends]

Zone there are 5 kingdoms in Daniel 2. NOT 4

(1)&#8230;.32This image's head was of fine gold,
(2)&#8230;.his breast and his arms of silver,
(3)&#8230;.his belly and his thighs of brass,
(4)&#8230;.33His legs of iron, 40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron
(5)&#8230;.his feet part of iron and part of clay. , the kingdom shall be divided 42And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.



Before the head of gold/Babylon was Assyria, and before Assyria was Egypt in Bible history.

That makes 7 kingdoms altogether in Bible history


There are 7 kingdoms altogether, and john lived in the days of Rome the legs of iron,. As john put it the &#8220;ONE IS&#8221; and the other &#8220;IS NOT YET COME&#8221; and 5 have fallen

10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Forgive me brother, but I feel but you have no understanding in these matters. You're all over the place. Just my personal opinion. So I'm not going to respond and make things worse...BTW, I'm Bookends, not Zone. Peace out w the Lord!

 

[Bookends]

Daniel 2:44
44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

Matthew 21:43
'Because of this I say to you, that the reign of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth its fruit; (YLT)
43 I tell you, for this reason the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce the fruits of it. (AMP)
Jesus never promises to give it back to the Jews, physical Israel, the economy of God as the main funnel in which God uses to bless the world!!!

Matthew 16:18
"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

1 Peter 2:
The Chosen Stone and His Chosen People

4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,
&#8220;Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.&#8221;

7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,
&#8220;The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,&#8221;

8 and
&#8220;A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.&#8221;

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.


Why is this so hard for some people to understand!!

 

[psychomom]

EG this is just awful, bud.
if both Covenants are binding, you're UNDER THE LAW!

*light bulb*

dispensationalism is dying a slow and painful death in my mind...

but it is dying.

love you,
el

 

[zone]

*light bulb*

dispensationalism is dying a slow and painful death in my mind...

but it is dying.

love you,
el

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think Jesus did correct them, but in a subtle way. I think Jesus had the eternal kingdom in mind when answering this question knowing full well that the disciples were thinking of a physical kingdom, because for one, he said it's not for them to know (which goes well with Matt. 24:26 and second, He diverts their attention away from Jerusalem, not towards it, and puts the emphasis on the world (the great commission).

This may be true, but it has so little basis of evidence in the passage, i would not take it very seriously. Jesus, whenever they ever got something wrong. came out and told them flat out. NO! he did not say this here. So it would only be an opinion that Jesus was doing what you said.. and would not stick to what jesus normally did in these situations.

Couple this with Jesus' statements, "My kingdom is not of this world".. and "

'Because of this I say to you, that the reign of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth its fruit;" (YLT) and I don't see how you could warrant another Godly Jewish kingdom here on earth before the eternal state.

Yes, he did say the kingdom would be taken.. yet the Ot prophesied this very thing. so even these men, who hopefully knew OT prophesy, would know at this time, this was going to happen.. But remember, alot of the words of OT prophesy were hidden, so Christ could do what he had to do (satan killed Christ ONLY because he thought he came to rule. not be the suffering servane. so God had to hide it from us, so satan could not get it) But they also knew. after this age of the gentiles, Jerusalem would be restored.

Also note. the disciples were told this before Christ even died, and would have surely had this in their minds when they asked the question, and when jesus answered.

Luke 21: 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. (fulfilled AD 70) And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (still awaiting fulfilment)

so you see. jesus let them know Jerusalem would be trampled by gentiles until their time is fulfilled. And as the OT prophseies state (and even Paul mentions in Rom 11) at this time, isreal will be restored, and the city given back to its rightful owners.

Our eschatology does effect how we all interpret certain passage of the bible, amazing isn't it that we see the opposite here.

Peace bro!!

yeah it is. But that could be from many things.

Our teaching background
Our learned eschatology
Our inner belief system

Thats why we must ocntinue to study. the word can not contradict.

But we are still brothers no matter what, and that is what matters.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To be honest, I only got this far:



First, I'm sorry it takes me so long to reply.

Second, I only read that far because I disagree with your assessment of the statue. The statue displays 4 kingdoms:

Head= Babylon
Chest and arms = Media Persia
Belly and thighs= Greece
Legs and feet = ancient Rome (there is no prophetic gap between the legs and feet of iron and clay).

These four kingdoms are the same 4 kingdoms in vision Daniel has in Chapter 7. Only 4 kingdoms, not 5. All the kingdoms, Human parts of the statue run together continuously with no breaks between the head, chest, belly, and legs. The stone carved out without human hand is Christ and the Church, His Kingdom, Our kingdom in which Christ established at the Cross and that brought the ancient Roman empire down, the 3 other kingdoms (that where absorbed by the Roman Kingdom) and all other (present) kingdoms down and Christ reigns now! It's a spiritual reality soon to be a physical one.

I should give you the respect and common decency you deserve and read it all, but I didn't, sorry...I will go back, read it and disagree... lol...Peace bro

well that was my point bro.. I used dan 7 and rev 13 - 19 to prove that rome was not one kingdom but two. and there was a gap. thats why i asked if you read it.. because you can not know my argument until you do.. You can barely see it in romans 2. but it is there, but to be honest, not without the other passages which speak of these kingdoms.

you have all the time in the world my friend..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

okay EG.
i know you're not pretrib...but the hermeneutic is the same.

for now, let's forget about Peter saying this earth is going up in smoke....not to look for anything here.

if Jerusalem which now is (Palestine, Canaan, Israel) belongs eternally to God's children, who are God's children?
who are the children of the promise?
who are Abraham's offspring?

Romans 9:8
In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

who are God's children?

lol. Sorry sis. You do not stick to the argument., You can not keep using the same argument for every discussion we have which does not fit. You sent me a post which said it was hard to refute. I refuted it and you went back to the same argument, which had nothing to do with my post.

Do you want to discuss this or not?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Daniel 2:44
44And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

Tell us. When did jesus come back in the clouds. destroy ALL kingdoms. consume them, and set up his own kingdom. I see many evil kingdoms roaming the earth now. and have seen many since Christ left this earth, You know. the time the disciples were told we would see Christ come back the same way he left, with power and glory

Matthew 21:43
'Because of this I say to you, that the reign of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth its fruit; (YLT)
43 I tell you, for this reason the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce the fruits of it. (AMP)
Jesus never promises to give it back to the Jews, physical Israel, the economy of God as the main funnel in which God uses to bless the world!!!

The OT prophesied this would happen.. It also prophesies after this time Isreal will be restored (after they repent)

Matthew 16:18
"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

1 Peter 2:
The Chosen Stone and His Chosen People

4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,
“Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”

7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,
“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”

8 and
“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.


Why is this so hard for some people to understand!!

Why is it so hard? Because it is not true. People are looking at their beliefs and not looking at the whole picture.

Those last passages you spoke of does not go with the prophesies. God will destroy every nation (has not happened) he will destroy those who have plundered his people (isreal) has not happened. All the world (every man woman and child alive) will see him return in glory, and know he is there God..(has not happened)

If this is the kingdom God promised, of peace. of love and joy.. Then I have to tell you. I do not think much of God. Look at all the evil we see. the rapes, the plunder, the mass murder, the disease, the sin and evil that is all over the world. God said he would wipe this out, and as the passage said, CRUSH IT when he sets up his kingdom.. Do you really believe all this has happened?

as you said. why is it so hard for you to understand?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

*light bulb*

dispensationalism is dying a slow and painful death in my mind...

but it is dying.

love you,
el

Light bulb? what light bulb. Zone decieved you by saying the one covenant I spoke of was the law, or mosaic covenant. That law is dead. And not the one I was speaking of..

Although MUCH of dispensational doctrine is based on fairy tales un untruths. it does not mean its main premise (end times) is faulty.

and saying I am wrong because she misunderstands what i said does not help..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Light bulb? what light bulb. Zone decieved you by saying the one covenant I spoke of was the law, or mosaic covenant. That law is dead. And not the one I was speaking of..

Although MUCH of dispensational doctrine is based on fairy tales un untruths. it does not mean its main premise (end times) is faulty.

and saying I am wrong because she misunderstands what i said does not help..

let me rephrase. and apologize I used a very bad word which I did not mean.

Zone did not deceive. (purposely try to fool someone). Nor did I think she was doing this. She did not understand what I was saying.. Because evidently what she has been told about dispensation (I can noether confirm or deny) the law was one of the covenants which is still binding for Israel. I know many do teach that Isreal will fall under law during some seven years. But this is not the case. never has been the case.. And is not the covenant I spoke of.. So I can see how she would think I meant that.

 

[Cobb]

Although MUCH of dispensational doctrine is based on fairy tales un untruths. it does not mean its main premise (end times) is faulty.

It's actually worse than faulty. What it does is make people misunderstand the word "Israel" in relation to the end times. If the prophecy is "All nations will attack Israel, and I will defend Israel" then our understanding of the nature of "Israel" becomes critical to the understanding of the prophetic fulfillment of the words.

If we understand "Israel" as "that little strip of land in the Middle East that men call Israel" then prophecy would be fulfilled by a military attack on said strip of land.

If we understand "Israel" as "Christianity" then prophecy would be fulfilled by an attack on Christianity; and not necessarily a military attack.

Furthermore, with an incorrect understanding, deception by way of manipulation becomes a simple thing. For instance, suppose that "Israel" is intended by God to be understood as "Christianity" (as some here understand it). But Satan wants to deceive, so as ruler of the powers of this age, Satan arranges to gather a group of people (whom no one has any real assurance of carnal lineage) into the Middle East and affirms the name of "Israel" in his political courts. He then manipulates other people to "rise up against Israel" and it is done. He then appears in a display of "all power" over Jerusalem and calls down fire on the "invaders" utterly destroying their armies and "saving Israel" from "all her enemies"- he also appears with myraid angels and is claiming to be none other than "Jesus Christ returned" and, presto- Satan has "fulfilled prophecy" and tons of "Christians" start singing his praises and kissing his feet.

Now, this ruse only works if a person has misunderstood the nature of "Israel" through "dispensationalism" teachings (and would aid immensely if virtually everything they were taught was error). If a person knows that "Israel" means "Christianity" then Satan's little ruse- while visually impressive- does not fulfil prophecy (or, rather, not the prophecy he is attempting to deceive the Christians into believing he has fulfilled).

But thankfully, the scripture tells us exactly when these things are appointed to take place, so no one with knowledge of the scripture can actually ever be deceived. The attack on Christianity (Israel) will begin with the coming of the King of Confusion and all his host on the 10th day of the 10th month. There is a reason this date is the only date thrice recorded in the old covenant; there is also a reason this date is the one and only date commanded by God to be written down.

Eze 24:1 in the tenth month, in the tenth day of the month, the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, write thee the name of the day, even of this same day: the king of Babylon set himself against Jerusalem this same day.

Almost everything everyone believes concerning prophecy is wrong. Fortunately for us, God is making this incredibly simple for His chosen by having written down the exact days of the months on which the events are to take place.

 

[zone]

let me rephrase. and apologize I used a very bad word which I did not mean.

Zone did not deceive. (purposely try to fool someone). Nor did I think she was doing this. She did not understand what I was saying.. Because evidently what she has been told about dispensation (I can noether confirm or deny) the law was one of the covenants which is still binding for Israel. I know many do teach that Isreal will fall under law during some seven years. But this is not the case. never has been the case.. And is not the covenant I spoke of.. So I can see how she would think I meant that.

i'm for ya, EG.
right with ya.