Christians are Israel
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E
No, I am not under law, because the law never saved anyone. It was a tutor. And it never had a thing to do with the abrahamic covenant with which we are discussing. There was more than one covenant in the OT my sis.. The mosaic law was just one of them.
why are we going back here, Your again making it a salvation issue?
Tell me Zone, Was being a child of Isreal EVER met to make a person saved? Was the giving of the land to abraham and his descendents EVER made to make them saved? These are very important questions.. because of the answer is yes. then all Children of Isreal are saved whether they accepted Christ or not. if the answer is no, then that means there are two covenants. which are still binding..
ps. the only covenant which God did away with was the mosaic covenant. Which had nothing to do with Israel or being saved. It was given hundreds of years after the nation of Isreal was born.
the abrahamic covenant still stands. And it was in two parts.
1. Salvation for mankind
2. A gift to one of his children and their children.
Both aspects are said to be eternal. if one is not. then we can not trust the other to be either!
why are we going back here, Your again making it a salvation issue?
Tell me Zone, Was being a child of Isreal EVER met to make a person saved? Was the giving of the land to abraham and his descendents EVER made to make them saved? These are very important questions.. because of the answer is yes. then all Children of Isreal are saved whether they accepted Christ or not. if the answer is no, then that means there are two covenants. which are still binding..
ps. the only covenant which God did away with was the mosaic covenant. Which had nothing to do with Israel or being saved. It was given hundreds of years after the nation of Isreal was born.
the abrahamic covenant still stands. And it was in two parts.
1. Salvation for mankind
2. A gift to one of his children and their children.
Both aspects are said to be eternal. if one is not. then we can not trust the other to be either!
E
I have to disagree with you here sis. barly was just trying to show how the father created isreal as his bride. and the church is the bride of Christ, and children of not only Israel, but of The father.
Try to listen to what she is saying. I think you are confused by what she is saying, she is not saying what you claim she is saying.
no, everything i posted has to do with Israel and Judah returning from exile (the Whole House of Israel)....rebuilding the Temple and Jesus arriving as the Savior and Lamb.....they were Restored.
it might be (IS) a salvation issue for the unbelieving jews we insist on calling Israel, and as we insist on acquiescing to the idea of Dual Covenants in place < this came about through continual pressure from Judaism to displace or marginalize Christ and His Church, and to stop evangelism of jews, which the rabbis can't stand.
are we sure this is what we want to do?
Dual-covenant theology is a Christian view of the Old Covenant which holds that Jews may simply keep the Law of Moses, because of the "everlasting covenant" (Genesis 17:13) between Abraham and God expressed in the Hebrew Bible, whereas Gentiles (those not Jews or Jewish proselytes) must convert to Christianity or alternatively accept the Seven Laws of Noah to be assured of a place in the World to Come.
Many forms of Christianity, especially Conservative Protestants, consider this view to be heresy. Alternative Christian views are that the Law of Moses has been superseded or abrogated. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 1967, "The Law of the Gospel "fulfills," refines, surpasses, and leads the Old Law to its perfection."
Dual-covenant theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
it might be (IS) a salvation issue for the unbelieving jews we insist on calling Israel, and as we insist on acquiescing to the idea of Dual Covenants in place < this came about through continual pressure from Judaism to displace or marginalize Christ and His Church, and to stop evangelism of jews, which the rabbis can't stand.
are we sure this is what we want to do?
Dual-covenant theology is a Christian view of the Old Covenant which holds that Jews may simply keep the Law of Moses, because of the "everlasting covenant" (Genesis 17:13) between Abraham and God expressed in the Hebrew Bible, whereas Gentiles (those not Jews or Jewish proselytes) must convert to Christianity or alternatively accept the Seven Laws of Noah to be assured of a place in the World to Come.
Many forms of Christianity, especially Conservative Protestants, consider this view to be heresy. Alternative Christian views are that the Law of Moses has been superseded or abrogated. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 1967, "The Law of the Gospel "fulfills," refines, surpasses, and leads the Old Law to its perfection."
Dual-covenant theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
E
then again, if it was a continuation. then why did God not give us the land? God always promised salvation to everyone, not just isreal. Ninevah was not a jewish state, it was gentile. not to mention ALL the non Israel people who were saved in the OT. Gods church was formed with adam, based on the promise of gen 3; 15. not with isreal. so there is no continuation or replacement. both are false ideas
E
no they were not. Did you read what I said?
1. They did nt possess it. they were just allowed to live there by the gentile kingdoms who enslaved them
2. They did not live there in peace. they were slaves. and had to ask permission to do everything, INCLUDING rebuilding the temple.
3. They did not as a nation worship the lord their God.
all of these are said to happen at the restoration of the people to her land. yet not one of these (among many others) fit.
i are we sure this is what we want to do?
Dual-covenant theology is a Christian view of the Old Covenant which holds that Jews may simply keep the Law of Moses, because of the "everlasting covenant" (Genesis 17:13) between Abraham and God expressed in the Hebrew Bible, whereas Gentiles (those not Jews or Jewish proselytes) must convert to Christianity or alternatively accept the Seven Laws of Noah to be assured of a place in the World to Come.
Many forms of Christianity, especially Conservative Protestants, consider this view to be heresy. Alternative Christian views are that the Law of Moses has been superseded or abrogated. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 1967, "The Law of the Gospel "fulfills," refines, surpasses, and leads the Old Law to its perfection."
Dual-covenant theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click[/quote]
Dual covenant is not mosaic and new. The jews tried to make them fit together. but God shot that down. I am not talking about this. Yes the jews did this. but it is not what we are speaking about. This is not what I meant when I said there were still two covenants in place.
if we can come to this, you MIGHT be able to understand what I believe, it is obvious your still confused about my belief,
1. They did nt possess it. they were just allowed to live there by the gentile kingdoms who enslaved them
2. They did not live there in peace. they were slaves. and had to ask permission to do everything, INCLUDING rebuilding the temple.
3. They did not as a nation worship the lord their God.
all of these are said to happen at the restoration of the people to her land. yet not one of these (among many others) fit.
i are we sure this is what we want to do?
Dual-covenant theology is a Christian view of the Old Covenant which holds that Jews may simply keep the Law of Moses, because of the "everlasting covenant" (Genesis 17:13) between Abraham and God expressed in the Hebrew Bible, whereas Gentiles (those not Jews or Jewish proselytes) must convert to Christianity or alternatively accept the Seven Laws of Noah to be assured of a place in the World to Come.
Many forms of Christianity, especially Conservative Protestants, consider this view to be heresy. Alternative Christian views are that the Law of Moses has been superseded or abrogated. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 1967, "The Law of the Gospel "fulfills," refines, surpasses, and leads the Old Law to its perfection."
Dual-covenant theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click[/quote]
Dual covenant is not mosaic and new. The jews tried to make them fit together. but God shot that down. I am not talking about this. Yes the jews did this. but it is not what we are speaking about. This is not what I meant when I said there were still two covenants in place.
if we can come to this, you MIGHT be able to understand what I believe, it is obvious your still confused about my belief,
EG i know you're talking about the Land Promise.
but it's not separate from anything else.
the land was a type of eternity.
without the Promise (JESUS), the land is just soil.
and there's no possible way God is allowing Christians in the region to be murdered over a loose end that has nothing to do with Jesus.
but it's not separate from anything else.
the land was a type of eternity.
without the Promise (JESUS), the land is just soil.
and there's no possible way God is allowing Christians in the region to be murdered over a loose end that has nothing to do with Jesus.
E
Thats a lie propogated by the church in around 400 AD.. God never divorced isreal, because the law never made isreal. it was the abrahamic covenant in which God married isreal. NOT THE LAW!
Your talking about salvation here. yet again. THIS IS NOT A SALVATION ISSUE< NOR IS IT A MOSAIC LAW ISSUE, Never was. it was the church or rome whihc twisted this and made it a salvation issue.
The mosaic covenant is gone, the abrahamic covenant still stands.
your the one confused because you think she is speaking of the mosaic, when she is not.
E
Yes it is. Because it was not given to Ishmael, nor esau, to ninevah, or anyone else who was saved via the 1st part of the abrahamic covenant. Your trying to make the covenant one part. if that was the case we have serious issues.. and serious consequences.
God never said this, nor did he infer it. that is just a false belief to try to convince people that a doctrine is correct (I am not saying you are doing this, I am saying the origionators of your belief did this. you are just following them)
lol. Where did this come from? You think God is killing christians over soil?? Tell me sis, Where did God say he was going to use Christians to bring back Isreal? or use them to restor them to their land, and destroy the gentiles who are there?
Scripture does not say this. Scripture says God will do this of his own power supernaturaly. not with an army of Christians.
As i said before. I do not follow these christians thinking they are doing Gods work to protect Isreal. They are following a false precept. and not understanding what God said. And most likely doing it thinking God is going to reward them. which they would be in serious error believing this.
God never said this, nor did he infer it. that is just a false belief to try to convince people that a doctrine is correct (I am not saying you are doing this, I am saying the origionators of your belief did this. you are just following them)
lol. Where did this come from? You think God is killing christians over soil?? Tell me sis, Where did God say he was going to use Christians to bring back Isreal? or use them to restor them to their land, and destroy the gentiles who are there?
Scripture does not say this. Scripture says God will do this of his own power supernaturaly. not with an army of Christians.
As i said before. I do not follow these christians thinking they are doing Gods work to protect Isreal. They are following a false precept. and not understanding what God said. And most likely doing it thinking God is going to reward them. which they would be in serious error believing this.
B
by zone...i listened to Barly. she's confused.
Excuse me... I am not confused and will not tolerate you making proclamations about me. Your opinion carries NO authority and your diagnosis is invalid.
For someone who asserts to be so careful regarding clear verbiage... how long could I go saying "ZONE IS STUPID"? YOU do not have to like or agree with what I write... and you are Free to your opinions... however those which concern me... DO indicate opinion... thanks in advance for your cooperation.
Excuse me... I am not confused and will not tolerate you making proclamations about me. Your opinion carries NO authority and your diagnosis is invalid.
For someone who asserts to be so careful regarding clear verbiage... how long could I go saying "ZONE IS STUPID"? YOU do not have to like or agree with what I write... and you are Free to your opinions... however those which concern me... DO indicate opinion... thanks in advance for your cooperation.
He says He did.
Jeremiah 3:8
I observed that it was because unfaithful Israel had committed adultery that I had sent her away and had given her a certificate of divorce. Nevertheless, her treacherous sister Judah was not afraid but also went and prostituted herself
Joshua 21
Cities and Pasturelands Allotted to Levi
1Then the heads of the fathers’ houses of the Levites came to Eleazar the priest and to Joshua the son of Nun and to the heads of the fathers’ houses of the tribes of the people of Israel. 2And they said to them at Shiloh in the land of Canaan, “The LORD commanded through Moses that we be given cities to dwell in, along with their pasturelands for our livestock.” 3So by command of the LORD the people of Israel gave to the Levites the following cities and pasturelands out of their inheritance.
4The lot came out for the clans of the Kohathites. So those Levites who were descendants of Aaron the priest received by lot from the tribes of Judah, Simeon, and Benjamin, thirteen cities.
5And the rest of the Kohathites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Ephraim, from the tribe of Dan and the half-tribe of Manasseh, ten cities.
6The Gershonites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Issachar, from the tribe of Asher, from the tribe of Naphtali, and from the half-tribe of Manasseh in Bashan, thirteen cities.
7The Merarites according to their clans received from the tribe of Reuben, the tribe of Gad, and the tribe of Zebulun, twelve cities.
8These cities and their pasturelands the people of Israel gave by lot to the Levites, as the LORD had commanded through Moses.
9Out of the tribe of the people of Judah and the tribe of the people of Simeon they gave the following cities mentioned by name, 10which went to the descendants of Aaron, one of the clans of the Kohathites who belonged to the people of Levi; since the lot fell to them first. 11They gave them Kiriath-arba (Arba being the father of Anak), that is Hebron, in the hill country of Judah, along with the pasturelands around it. 12But the fields of the city and its villages had been given to Caleb the son of Jephunneh as his possession.
13And to the descendants of Aaron the priest they gave Hebron, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands, Libnah with its pasturelands, 14Jattir with its pasturelands, Eshtemoa with its pasturelands, 15Holon with its pasturelands, Debir with its pasturelands, 16Ain with its pasturelands, Juttah with its pasturelands, Beth-shemesh with its pasturelands—nine cities out of these two tribes; 17then out of the tribe of Benjamin, Gibeon with its pasturelands, Geba with its pasturelands, 18Anathoth with its pasturelands, and Almon with its pasturelands—four cities. 19The cities of the descendants of Aaron, the priests, were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.
20As to the rest of the Kohathites belonging to the Kohathite clans of the Levites, the cities allotted to them were out of the tribe of Ephraim. 21To them were given Shechem, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands in the hill country of Ephraim, Gezer with its pasturelands, 22Kibzaim with its pasturelands, Beth-horon with its pasturelands—four cities; 23and out of the tribe of Dan, Elteke with its pasturelands, Gibbethon with its pasturelands, 24Aijalon with its pasturelands, Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—four cities; 25and out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Taanach with its pasturelands, and Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—two cities. 26The cities of the clans of the rest of the Kohathites were ten in all with their pasturelands.
27And to the Gershonites, one of the clans of the Levites, were given out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Golan in Bashan with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, and Beeshterah with its pasturelands—two cities; 28and out of the tribe of Issachar, Kishion with its pasturelands, Daberath with its pasturelands, 29Jarmuth with its pasturelands, En-gannim with its pasturelands—four cities; 30and out of the tribe of Asher, Mishal with its pasturelands, Abdon with its pasturelands, 31Helkath with its pasturelands, and Rehob with its pasturelands—four cities; 32and out of the tribe of Naphtali, Kedesh in Galilee with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Hammoth-dor with its pasturelands, and Kartan with its pasturelands—three cities. 33The cities of the several clans of the Gershonites were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.
34And to the rest of the Levites, the Merarite clans, were given out of the tribe of Zebulun, Jokneam with its pasturelands, Kartah with its pasturelands, 35Dimnah with its pasturelands, Nahalal with its pasturelands—four cities; 36and out of the tribe of Reuben, Bezer with its pasturelands, Jahaz with its pasturelands, 37Kedemoth with its pasturelands, and Mephaath with its pasturelands—four cities; 38and out of the tribe of Gad, Ramoth in Gilead with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Mahanaim with its pasturelands, 39Heshbon with its pasturelands, Jazer with its pasturelands—four cities in all. 40As for the cities of the several Merarite clans, that is, the remainder of the clans of the Levites, those allotted to them were in all twelve cities.
41The cities of the Levites in the midst of the possession of the people of Israel were in all forty-eight cities with their pasturelands. 42These cities each had its pasturelands around it. So it was with all these cities.
43Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. 44And the LORD gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the LORD had given all their enemies into their hands. 45Not one word of all the good promises that the LORD had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.
Jeremiah 3:8
I observed that it was because unfaithful Israel had committed adultery that I had sent her away and had given her a certificate of divorce. Nevertheless, her treacherous sister Judah was not afraid but also went and prostituted herself
Joshua 21
Cities and Pasturelands Allotted to Levi
1Then the heads of the fathers’ houses of the Levites came to Eleazar the priest and to Joshua the son of Nun and to the heads of the fathers’ houses of the tribes of the people of Israel. 2And they said to them at Shiloh in the land of Canaan, “The LORD commanded through Moses that we be given cities to dwell in, along with their pasturelands for our livestock.” 3So by command of the LORD the people of Israel gave to the Levites the following cities and pasturelands out of their inheritance.
4The lot came out for the clans of the Kohathites. So those Levites who were descendants of Aaron the priest received by lot from the tribes of Judah, Simeon, and Benjamin, thirteen cities.
5And the rest of the Kohathites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Ephraim, from the tribe of Dan and the half-tribe of Manasseh, ten cities.
6The Gershonites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Issachar, from the tribe of Asher, from the tribe of Naphtali, and from the half-tribe of Manasseh in Bashan, thirteen cities.
7The Merarites according to their clans received from the tribe of Reuben, the tribe of Gad, and the tribe of Zebulun, twelve cities.
8These cities and their pasturelands the people of Israel gave by lot to the Levites, as the LORD had commanded through Moses.
9Out of the tribe of the people of Judah and the tribe of the people of Simeon they gave the following cities mentioned by name, 10which went to the descendants of Aaron, one of the clans of the Kohathites who belonged to the people of Levi; since the lot fell to them first. 11They gave them Kiriath-arba (Arba being the father of Anak), that is Hebron, in the hill country of Judah, along with the pasturelands around it. 12But the fields of the city and its villages had been given to Caleb the son of Jephunneh as his possession.
13And to the descendants of Aaron the priest they gave Hebron, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands, Libnah with its pasturelands, 14Jattir with its pasturelands, Eshtemoa with its pasturelands, 15Holon with its pasturelands, Debir with its pasturelands, 16Ain with its pasturelands, Juttah with its pasturelands, Beth-shemesh with its pasturelands—nine cities out of these two tribes; 17then out of the tribe of Benjamin, Gibeon with its pasturelands, Geba with its pasturelands, 18Anathoth with its pasturelands, and Almon with its pasturelands—four cities. 19The cities of the descendants of Aaron, the priests, were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.
20As to the rest of the Kohathites belonging to the Kohathite clans of the Levites, the cities allotted to them were out of the tribe of Ephraim. 21To them were given Shechem, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands in the hill country of Ephraim, Gezer with its pasturelands, 22Kibzaim with its pasturelands, Beth-horon with its pasturelands—four cities; 23and out of the tribe of Dan, Elteke with its pasturelands, Gibbethon with its pasturelands, 24Aijalon with its pasturelands, Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—four cities; 25and out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Taanach with its pasturelands, and Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—two cities. 26The cities of the clans of the rest of the Kohathites were ten in all with their pasturelands.
27And to the Gershonites, one of the clans of the Levites, were given out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Golan in Bashan with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, and Beeshterah with its pasturelands—two cities; 28and out of the tribe of Issachar, Kishion with its pasturelands, Daberath with its pasturelands, 29Jarmuth with its pasturelands, En-gannim with its pasturelands—four cities; 30and out of the tribe of Asher, Mishal with its pasturelands, Abdon with its pasturelands, 31Helkath with its pasturelands, and Rehob with its pasturelands—four cities; 32and out of the tribe of Naphtali, Kedesh in Galilee with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Hammoth-dor with its pasturelands, and Kartan with its pasturelands—three cities. 33The cities of the several clans of the Gershonites were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.
34And to the rest of the Levites, the Merarite clans, were given out of the tribe of Zebulun, Jokneam with its pasturelands, Kartah with its pasturelands, 35Dimnah with its pasturelands, Nahalal with its pasturelands—four cities; 36and out of the tribe of Reuben, Bezer with its pasturelands, Jahaz with its pasturelands, 37Kedemoth with its pasturelands, and Mephaath with its pasturelands—four cities; 38and out of the tribe of Gad, Ramoth in Gilead with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Mahanaim with its pasturelands, 39Heshbon with its pasturelands, Jazer with its pasturelands—four cities in all. 40As for the cities of the several Merarite clans, that is, the remainder of the clans of the Levites, those allotted to them were in all twelve cities.
41The cities of the Levites in the midst of the possession of the people of Israel were in all forty-eight cities with their pasturelands. 42These cities each had its pasturelands around it. So it was with all these cities.
43Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. 44And the LORD gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the LORD had given all their enemies into their hands. 45Not one word of all the good promises that the LORD had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.