Trinity?

[Broern]

The word "trinity" is not written in the Bible but the concept of one God with three manifestations can be understood with faith. It is opposite with the word "faith" that is written hundred of times written in the Bible but the concepts of men are different from what the Bible intend to teach. I believe in the trinity of God because I also believe in composition of the whole man, that spirit, soul and body. In Genesis, man was created in likeness and image of God. Likeness of God because man is spiritual and physical being. Man's body came from and will return to dust. Man's soul is the real and eternal man which shall have an eternal body in due time.The spirit of man was share by God to man to serve as the residence of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, God, the Father can be conceptualized as the soul, the Lord Jesus Christ, as the body that was manifested in this physical world, and the Holy Spirit as the spirit in man. This is my concept of the likeness and image of God in man though man is a created being only and God is almighty.

 

[layman316]

Strong1. Ok so you believe that there is a council of three persons and THEY call them self's 1?
So let me ask you a question.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

So this scripture say's the SON will be called The Father, The counsellor (Holy spirit) and much much more. Is Jesus the Father, and The Counsellor?

Isaiah 9:6 does not say the Son will be called "The Father." A closer read says, “His name shall be called . . . the everlasting Father,” or better, Father of eternity. This speaks of his attributes as being divine, thus showing that the Son is God.
The answer to your question is no Jesus is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. For several reasons:

1. The disciples spent three years with Jesus, and never once understood Jesus to be the Father. They certainly didn’t use Isaiah 9:6.
2. Hours before Jesus’ crucifixion, Philip asked Jesus to show them the Father. If Jesus was indeed the Father He hid His identity from them. I highly doubt this would have been the case (John 14:8).
3. Jesus never once claimed that He was the Father or that He sent the Son. In fact, Jesus said, “I have come forth from the Father into the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the Father."
4. The Holy Spirit was sent from the Father and the Son, so, Jesus cannot be the Holy Spirit.

Blessings,

layman316

 

[layman316]

Ok well this is getting slightly out of hand. Everyone is posting, but no one is answering the question given.
So I will settle this with a simple explanation of what I believe about God, then you can take it or leave it.

I believe that the Trinity is a false doctrine pushed in by the Catholic church to allow a small bit of paganism in the Church.
I find no biblical evidence of the apostles believing in such a God. Actually In Matthew 28:19 when Jesus commanded them to Baptize in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. They went and Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ. (Acts 2:38) Showing that they understood that Father Son, and Holy ghost are tittles Jesus is the name.

I also will make the same statement I made earlier and That is Isaiah 9:6 where they give a Prophecy saying "
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Here it calls The Son (Jesus) the Father, and the counsellor which is the Holy ghost.

I do recognize diffrent roles God play's in. But In light of the Shama I can not believe that There is 3 Deitys that somehow make up one God! Because that is not in the bible, The bible is about Jesus, And Jesus is God Manifest in flesh for the salvation of mankind. The Father is God manifest as are Creator, and the Father of the man Jesus, And the holy Ghost is God in action, or the spirit of Restoration. But all these three manifestations NOT PERSONS equal 1 God.

That's the short version. If you have questions pleas ask one at a time.

Based on what you said above, it is clear that you don't understand the Trinity doctrine. We do not believe in three deities. I'm not sure where that came from. I would be happy to answer any question you ask, but I would like the have the same respect from you. That said,

What verse in the Bible implies that there are "different roles God play's in?"

 

[layman316]

Ok, show me scripture explaining you're last statement. Where does God define himself as triune?

If proper biblical hermeneutics is followed you will always end up with a Triune nature of God, thus leading to the Trinity Doctrine. Take John 14:16 for example.


Joh 14:16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—

If the grammar is allow to speak, it shows three distinct Persons. Do you agree with the grammar?

 

[starfield]

Isaiah 9:6 does not say the Son will be called "The Father." A closer read says, “His name shall be called . . . the everlasting Father,” or better, Father of eternity. This speaks of his attributes as being divine, thus showing that the Son is God.
The answer to your question is no Jesus is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. For several reasons:

1. The disciples spent three years with Jesus, and never once understood Jesus to be the Father. They certainly didn’t use Isaiah 9:6.
2. Hours before Jesus’ crucifixion, Philip asked Jesus to show them the Father. If Jesus was indeed the Father He hid His identity from them. I highly doubt this would have been the case (John 14:8).
3. Jesus never once claimed that He was the Father or that He sent the Son. In fact, Jesus said, “I have come forth from the Father into the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the Father."
4. The Holy Spirit was sent from the Father and the Son, so, Jesus cannot be the Holy Spirit.

Blessings,

layman316

Amen! Good stuff.

 

[layman316]

Amen! Good stuff.

The truth is always "good stuff!"

 

[Geometar]

Holy Spirit never came from Son,only from Father.
Greetings

 

[WolfInOxHide]

If it helps in understanding:

1. The Holy Spirit can dwell in you or me.
2. The Father can dwell in you or me. (He is YHWH of hosts)
3. We are all "in" the Father because He stretches beyond us in every way imaginable.

Externalizing these concepts into a stranger called "trinity", creates two sides of a false argument and makes "follow me" a faded statement.

Anyone can become "one flesh" with God. They just weren't "begotten" in that state as Yeshua was.

 

[johnluke]

Well hello!
All you Christians out there I want YOUR opinion!

I have studied this doctrine defined as the Trinity, and I tend to see a lot of issues with it. So I am just curious is someone that actually knows anything about it. (Not what you have always been taught, But what you have Studied) Would give me a brief but intellectual standpoint on it, in hopes of a discussion. What is the Trinity in your own words? And from a biblical point of view Why do you believe it?

My understanding of the Trinity is that God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are 3 distinct persons in one being. They are consubstantial, meaning of the same substance (3 in 1). They are undivided, inseparable, eternal, and co-equal. As Tertullian says, "if they are separated for 1 second, the Trinity doctrine falls apart".

From a biblical point of view you can work through the scriptures until you have convinced yourself that the Bible supports this definition of the Trinity doctrine, even though the word Trinity is not found. On the other hand you can work through the scriptures until you have convinced yourself that God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are 3 separate and distinct individuals, and these 3 make up the Godhead. You can also work through the scriptures until you have convinced yourself that God is one God, that God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are the same person. The Bible supports all three definitions.

So which one is true? I believe from a Biblical point of view that the Godhead is made up of 3 separate and distinct individuals. It is the only way to answer all the scriptures about God. The primal scripture is Matthew 3:16-17. This was the first major event to open the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ on earth. At this event God the Father chose to reveal the make-up of the Godhead for the first time in a long time. It was spactacular. God the Son (Jesus) came out of the waters of Jordan on the earth, God the Father spoke from a cloud above the earth, and God the Holy Ghost was coming down from God the Father and eventually lit on God the Son. Notice there was a time that God the Holy Ghost was not part of God the Son as he was coming down from heaven and that God the Son and God the Father were also separated. This is the event that started it all, it set the foundation for the early church and tradition in regards to the relationship and nature of the Godhead. All other scriptures that talk about God must pass through this scripture to see if it speaks the truth. Matthew 3:16-17 supports the fact that God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are 3 separate and distinct individuals and there is no way around it. If you want to quote another scripture, first ask yourself how does it relate to Matthew 3:16-17.

For instance John 10:30 says that I (Jesus)and my Father are one. Now does the word "one" mean that they are one being as the Trinity says, or does it mean that are one in purpose, but still two separate and distinct individuals. If you now compare this scripture to Matthew 3:16-17 you will come to a conclusion that the word "one" in John 10:30 has to mean one in purpose. Also you can read John 17:20-22 andyou will again perfectly see that the "one" in John 10:30 has to mean they are one in purpose, not one in the same body.

The study of God the Father and his Son. God the Son and God the Holy Ghost is a fascinating subject and worthy of your study and prayers. Hope this post is clear enough.

 

[StGiles]

the word trinity is not a Biblical word it was a word used to describe a 3 in 1 God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit The three persons are co-equal, co-eternal and con substantial. however for some trinity would be an incorrect description as it is saying that there are three of equal status.
one deity manifested in three separate aspects would be more accurate for them a singular God with three aspects

 

[layman316]

Holy Spirit never came from Son,only from Father.
Greetings

You need to read carefully. I said the Holy Spirit was sent from the Father and the Son. I didn't say "came" from the Son. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.


Joh 15:26 "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

 

[Rock022]

H2O can be: Solid, Liquid or Mist. No matter what it is still H2O.

The Trinity is a mystery but we can reason it.

 

[Geometar]

You need to read carefully. I said the Holy Spirit was sent from the Father and the Son. I didn't say "came" from the Son. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.


Joh 15:26 "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

Yes,probably.I am sorry because of my bad english.
Everything coming from Father thro the Son.

 

[layman316]

The main objective is to show cmckey7127 that Jesus cannot be His own Father or the Holy Spirit.

 

[layman316]

Based on what you said above, it is clear that you don't understand the Trinity doctrine. We do not believe in three deities. I'm not sure where that came from. I would be happy to answer any question you ask, but I would like the have the same respect from you. That said,

What verse in the Bible implies that there are "different roles God play's in?"

Bump for cmckey7127...nt

 

[Colours]

Well hello!
All you Christians out there I want YOUR opinion!

I have studied this doctrine defined as the Trinity, and I tend to see a lot of issues with it. So I am just curious is someone that actually knows anything about it. (Not what you have always been taught, But what you have Studied) Would give me a brief but intellectual standpoint on it, in hopes of a discussion. What is the Trinity in your own words? And from a biblical point of view Why do you believe it?

'The trinity' is a man made term, meaning many different things to many different people.

Some say '3 God in one' 'One God split into three'. Three distinct people all actually being part of the same entity.

It really doesn't matter whicdh way it's put. It's a man-made term. The words 'Holy Trinity' are never used in the bible.

There is God. The creator. The Father. The alpha and omega. Whom Jesus says is the only one who is 'good'.

There is Jesus. A man born of a woman, just like mankind. He is the pure example of what a man is, in God's perfect eyesight. The Son God begot.

And there is the Spirit. Also called 'The Kingdom of God', amongst many other things. It is faith hope and love.

God has love. God is total love. God's spirit is a loving, charitable spirit. God's son shows this love and charity in perfect example.

The three things do intertwine.

Because God is a loving God. And Jesus is a loving Son. So both God and Jesus love. So Jesus has the spirit of God. 'In the spirit of charity and good will'.

But to make a mystery of it and call it 'the trinity', has just made it all a stumbling block to people.

It's not difficult.

God is the One God of the world. Jesus is his Son, whom is like God ie. Has God's will at heart. And the spirit, or 'Kingdom of God', is what one should cultivate and learn. It is love, faith, hope, patience, kindness, compassion, good nature, soft spoken voice, meekness, humility.

 

[layman316]

'The trinity' is a man made term, meaning many different things to many different people.

Some say '3 God in one' 'One God split into three'. Three distinct people all actually being part of the same entity.

It really doesn't matter whicdh way it's put. It's a man-made term. The words 'Holy Trinity' are never used in the bible.

There is God. The creator. The Father. The alpha and omega. Whom Jesus says is the only one who is 'good'.

There is Jesus. A man born of a woman, just like mankind. He is the pure example of what a man is, in God's perfect eyesight. The Son God begot.

And there is the Spirit. Also called 'The Kingdom of God', amongst many other things. It is faith hope and love.

God has love. God is total love. God's spirit is a loving, charitable spirit. God's son shows this love and charity in perfect example.

The three things do intertwine.

Because God is a loving God. And Jesus is a loving Son. So both God and Jesus love. So Jesus has the spirit of God. 'In the spirit of charity and good will'.

But to make a mystery of it and call it 'the trinity', has just made it all a stumbling block to people.

It's not difficult.

God is the One God of the world. Jesus is his Son, whom is like God ie. Has God's will at heart. And the spirit, or 'Kingdom of God', is what one should cultivate and learn. It is love, faith, hope, patience, kindness, compassion, good nature, soft spoken voice, meekness, humility.

Tit_2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,


2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

1 Pe 1:11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Jesus is not "like" God, Jesus IS God.

 

[layman316]

'The trinity' is a man made term, meaning many different things to many different people.

Some say '3 God in one' 'One God split into three'. Three distinct people all actually being part of the same entity.

It really doesn't matter whicdh way it's put. It's a man-made term. The words 'Holy Trinity' are never used in the bible.

There is God. The creator. The Father. The alpha and omega. Whom Jesus says is the only one who is 'good'.

There is Jesus. A man born of a woman, just like mankind. He is the pure example of what a man is, in God's perfect eyesight. The Son God begot.

And there is the Spirit. Also called 'The Kingdom of God', amongst many other things. It is faith hope and love.

God has love. God is total love. God's spirit is a loving, charitable spirit. God's son shows this love and charity in perfect example.

The three things do intertwine.

Because God is a loving God. And Jesus is a loving Son. So both God and Jesus love. So Jesus has the spirit of God. 'In the spirit of charity and good will'.

But to make a mystery of it and call it 'the trinity', has just made it all a stumbling block to people.

It's not difficult.

God is the One God of the world. Jesus is his Son, whom is like God ie. Has God's will at heart. And the spirit, or 'Kingdom of God', is what one should cultivate and learn. It is love, faith, hope, patience, kindness, compassion, good nature, soft spoken voice, meekness, humility.

In addition to my last post: There are many theological words that were coined used to express what the Scripture say. For example, the words “incarnation” or “Omnipresent” (many more) are "manmade" words, yet I highly doubt you would argue that these words are false. The term "Trinity" was coined for the same reason, thus, making your argument regarding the word "Trinity" moot.

 

[Colours]

Tit_2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,


2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

1 Pe 1:11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Jesus is not "like" God, Jesus IS God.

Everlasting Kingdom of Our Lord, and our Saviour, Jesus Christ.

ie. The everlating Kingdom of God, and of His Son Jesus.

Seperate use of the word 'and'.

There are many times where Jesus makes reference to God as His Father. To himself being below God.

And even in revelation we are told Jesus will be at God's right hand on Judgement day, and bowing at the end.

Jesus and God are separate in their state, but one in their will

The everlasting Kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

They share that 'Kingdom'.

Perfect father. Perfect son.

 

[Colours]

In addition to my last post: There are many theological words that were coined used to express what the Scripture say. For example, the words “incarnation” or “Omnipresent” (many more) are "manmade" words, yet I highly doubt you would argue that these words are false. The term "Trinity" was coined for the same reason, thus, making your argument regarding the word "Trinity" moot.

So does that mean because I call love 'banana', that it is now 'banana' and 'edible'?

It's this kind of thing is where trinity falls.

Yes, there is a spirit mentioned in the bible. And a God. And a Son. And it is inferred that all share some common will, or 'way'.

But then trinitarians will say 'God is actually made up of three parts'.

that's not true.

God is one God. And He had a Son. Who 'does the will of the father'.

They are not the same thing.

God did save humanity, because it was God who asked and planned that His Son would die. But the Son was the one who did the dying.

If you like to call the Father, Son, and Kingdom of God/Spirit 'the Trinity', then that's fine. But it's what you infer as you do it that is the messy part.

So, for the sake of not causing stumbling blocks, I will simply add that love is not a yellow fruit.