Trinity?

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layman316

Guest
#201
#201
Colours said:
Everlasting Kingdom of Our Lord, and our Saviour, Jesus Christ.

ie. The everlating Kingdom of God, and of His Son Jesus.

Seperate use of the word 'and'.

There are many times where Jesus makes reference to God as His Father. To himself being below God.

And even in revelation we are told Jesus will be at God's right hand on Judgement day, and bowing at the end.

Jesus and God are separate in their state, but one in their will

The everlasting Kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

They share that 'Kingdom'.

Perfect father. Perfect son.
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2Pe 1:11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Is the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ speaking of the same person?

According to the grammar it is, regardless of the word "and."

Using your logic we must conclude that "God and Father" are two different persons because of the word "and."
 
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Colours

Banned
#202
Dec 6, 2012
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#202
layman316 said:
2Pe 1:11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Is the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ speaking of the same person?
According to the grammar it is.
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Actually English grammar allows for this kind of thing.

The birthplace of my mother and father.

Are my mother and father the same person there? It's the same use of grammar ...
 
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Colours

Banned
#203
Dec 6, 2012
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#203
Adonai, Eli, lama sabacthani?

Phonetic aramaic meaning 'My God, why have you turned from me?'

'God can not look upon sin'.

Seperate entities.
 
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layman316

Guest
#204
#204
Colours said:
Adonai, Eli, lama sabacthani?

Phonetic aramaic meaning 'My God, why have you turned from me?'

'God can not look upon sin'.

Seperate entities.
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Wrong. Jesus in his incarnate state. Jesus did not sin, but took the sins of the world.
 
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Colours

Banned
#205
Dec 6, 2012
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#205
Also, Jesus can 'lord' over people as 'he has handed judgement to the son'. The English word Lord infers Kingship or power.

IT still doesn't take away from the fact that God can't feel temptation from Satan, thought Jesus did.

Or from the many, many third person references by Jesus to 'My God'
 
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layman316

Guest
#206
#206
Colours said:
Actually English grammar allows for this kind of thing.

The birthplace of my mother and father.

Are my mother and father the same person there? It's the same use of grammar ...
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Again, using your logic, "God and Father" are not the same person.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has
 
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Colours

Banned
#207
Dec 6, 2012
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#207
layman316 said:
Wrong. Jesus in his incarnate state. Jesus did not sin, but took the sins of the world.
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I never said JEsus sinned. He took the sin of the world. Doesn't change the fact that God turned from him for an instant because of it.

And what came afterwards? 'It is done'.

Can God turn away from himself?

One better, can God harbour sin in himself (if He and Jesus are the same entity), when he cannot even look upon it?
 
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Colours

Banned
#208
Dec 6, 2012
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#208
layman316 said:
Again, using your logic, "God and Father" are not the same person.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has
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But God and Father ARE the same person in that sentence. Again backed up by the many scriptures calling God 'Father'
 
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layman316

Guest
#209
#209
Colours said:
Actually English grammar allows for this kind of thing.

The birthplace of my mother and father.

Are my mother and father the same person there? It's the same use of grammar ...
Click to expand...


double posted...deleted

 
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layman316

Guest
#210
#210
Colours said:
But God and Father ARE the same person in that sentence. Again backed up by the many scriptures calling God 'Father'
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And according to the grammar so is Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 
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Colours

Banned
#211
Dec 6, 2012
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#211
JEsus took sin and went to Hades with it. Defeating sin and death.

So does that mean God sent himself to death of his flesh? ....

Clearly, abundant evidence suggests blatantly that Jesus and God are not the same entity.

Jesus 'does the will of my father who sent me'
 
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layman316

Guest
#212
#212
Furthermore, if Jesus is not God He could not have been the creator or all things and before all things.
 
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Colours

Banned
#213
Dec 6, 2012
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#213
layman316 said:
And according to the grammar so is Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
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Perhaps if you wish to take the grammar that way in this instance.

But other scripture evidencing the state of One God, and of One mediator, amongst others, suggests otherwise.
 
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layman316

Guest
#214
#214
Colours said:
JEsus took sin and went to Hades with it. Defeating sin and death.

So does that mean God sent himself to death of his flesh? ....

Clearly, abundant evidence suggests blatantly that Jesus and God are not the same entity.

Jesus 'does the will of my father who sent me'
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Joh 10:30 I and My Father are one."


Not one Person, but in essence and nature.
 
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Colours

Banned
#215
Dec 6, 2012
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#215
layman316 said:
Furthermore, if Jesus is not God He could not have been the creator or all things and before all things.
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Show me the part of the bible where Jesus created everything and was literally 'Made' before all things rather than just 'planned to come before (ahead of, or in higher standing) than other things'?
 
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Colours

Banned
#216
Dec 6, 2012
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#216
layman316 said:
Joh 10:30 I and My Father are one."


Not one Person, but in essence and nature.
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Exactly the right way to take this.

'I and God are as two sides of the same coin'

Two separate sides, both with the same purpose. Well, not 'purpose', but 'will'
 
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Rock022

Banned
#217
Dec 5, 2012
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#217
The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity.The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: “The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e., by nature one God. In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council : “Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature
 
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layman316

Guest
#218
#218
Colours said:
Perhaps if you wish to take the grammar that way in this instance.

But other scripture evidencing the state of One God, and of One mediator, amongst others, suggests otherwise.
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Without grammar you cannot put words together. And those who reject the Trinity doctrine do so by not using proper grammar and Biblical hermeneutics.
 
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layman316

Guest
#219
#219
Colours said:
Exactly the right way to take this.

'I and God are as two sides of the same coin'

Two separate sides, both with the same purpose. Well, not 'purpose', but 'will'
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I take it for what it says, not adding meaning to the text like your above post.

Or, if I misunderstood what you said, you may have violated the law of non-contradiction by agreeing with me that both have the same essence and nature.
 
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Colours

Banned
#220
Dec 6, 2012
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#220
layman316 said:
Without grammar you cannot put words together. And those who reject the Trinity doctrine do so by not using proper grammar and Biblical hermeneutics.
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Actually i've put it away using references to massive concepts in the bible.

Jesus consistently spoke to God outside of himself.

'The Kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ'

'The hometown of my mother and father Jimmy'
 
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