God's Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

[Eccl12and13]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

This is not true. God does not protect the church, He gives satan authority to make war with the saints (the church) and prevail. Rev 12, 13 Along with Dan 7

You must read a different scripture than the rest of us.

You claim that God does not protect the church. You claim that God gives Satan authority to make war with the saints and that Satan prevails against them. Let's read scripture to find if your claims line up with scripture;

First let us find who some of the players are that are mentioned throughout the bible;

Gen.37
[5] And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more.
[6] And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:
[7] For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
[8] And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
[9] And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
[10] And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

Above we find that Joseph, one of the 12 tribes of the nation of Israel, had dreams. And in one of his dreams he describes the entire nation of Israel as being made up of, the sun, the moon and eleven stars. This represented his father (the sun), his mother (the moon) and his eleven brothers (eleven stars) with Joseph being the 12th star.

Now let's find what the congregation that left Egypt was called while they were in the wilderness;

Acts 7
[37] This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
[38] This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

So all of those that were in the wilderness was considered to be 'the church'. Now let's find just who it was that left Egypt;

Exod.12
[37] And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
[38] And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

So it was NOT only the nation of Israel that left Egypt....there was a 'mixed multitude' of people that also left. And this entire congregation was called "the church". Now let's jump to a future time in the book of Rev.

Rev.12
[1] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Above we read of the nation of Israel once again described as the sun, the moon and twelve stars. Let's read what God did for her. But before reading, the reader must understand that sometimes within the same chapter of the book of Rev., you may be presented with both past AND future events. Let's read;

Rev.12
[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
[14] And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

So at some point the woman (the church) flees into the wilderness, a place prepared by God, and she is fed there for 3.5yrs. Does this not sound like God is protecting the church? Let's find if all were protected;

[15] And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
[16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

We find that even after Satan saw that those in the wilderness, he still tried to harm them. And again we find that God protects them.

So when Satan found that he could not destroy those that were protected, he turned toward those that were not being protected (the remnant of the woman). These are those that, for whatever reason, did NOT make it to God's place of safety, yet they know to keep His laws. It is these that Satan prevails over. Let's confirm;

Rev.13
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Again.....we already know that God has a place prepared for His church, those that obey. They are protected first because God prepared a place for them, and after Satan tries to attack, God has the earth to further help the church in the wilderness. Let's now go to Dan, to confirm further. But again....just as in the book of Rev., while reading the book of Dan., the reader may encounter both past and future events within the same chapter. Let's read;

Dan.7
[21] I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Now which saints could it be that Satan prevails over? Could it be those that are in the prepared place by God? No! For God's word tells us that even after Satan tried to attack them, God still helped and protected them. So which are these that Satan prevailed over?

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Those that, for whatever reason, did NOT make it to God's prepared place of safety. The remnant, the remaining saints that know to keep the laws of God.


Why would God's word tells us throughout the entire bible of a place of safety just to have Satan overcome and destroy the church? Why would God have Dan. and John tell us of a place that is prepared for the exact amount of time that the tribulation period would be if the saints were not going to be there?

Does that make sense?

Readers....if you have faith and believe in God's words and OBEY, you and your family WILL be protected. You will have nothing to fear. You will see death and destruction all around you, but you and your family will be protected by the angels that God will provide to those that trust His words and flee to the wilderness.

If you decide to stay put thinking that God will provide, when He has already given you fair warning on where and when to flee this is what you will have to look forward to;

Rev.13
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
[4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
[5] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
[6] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
[9] If any man have an ear, let him hear.
[10] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
[11] And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
[12] And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
[13] And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
[14] And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
[15] And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


You do have a choice. Stay and try to survive what God has already told us will be the worse time on earth there has ever been and ever will be......or;


Matt.24
[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

What can I say “not much” as you have a strong very case here?

I think most so called Christians will take the mark so they can continue to buy and sell.

And the Christians that don’t take the mark and that don’t flee will more than likely be killed for their faith.

But I still have this thought, like the two end time witnesses they stay and preach the gospel but are killed for their faith but they were still in Gods will, and obedient to God and God still fed them for that 3 ½ years

Even though I think that about the end time witnesses, the emphasis for the church should be on fleeing, as you have put up a very strong case here.
God bless

Sorry to say...but you are correct! All that do not flee and decide to stay will have a very tough choice to make. Take that mark or die for the word of God. And trust me.....I do not believe the man of sin will make it easy to just die for the word. Remember.....God's word tells us this will be the worse time the earth has ever seen. That means all of the torture devices that man has used in the past will pale in comparison.

And about the two witnesses....they are very special people. They will be here to give those that are not in God's place of safety hope and to prove to the rest of the world that God is still in control and that all is not lost. Some will see their miracles, have faith in God and NOT take the mark of the beast.

Rev.11
[3] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
[4] These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
[5] And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
[6] These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

.

 

[peterT]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

You claim that God does not protect the church. You claim that God gives Satan authority to make war with the saints and that Satan prevails against them. Let's read scripture to find if your claims line up with scripture;

First let us find who some of the players are that are mentioned throughout the bible;

Gen.37
[5] And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more.
[6] And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:
[7] For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
[8] And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
[9] And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
[10] And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

Above we find that Joseph, one of the 12 tribes of the nation of Israel, had dreams. And in one of his dreams he describes the entire nation of Israel as being made up of, the sun, the moon and eleven stars. This represented his father (the sun), his mother (the moon) and his eleven brothers (eleven stars) with Joseph being the 12th star.

Now let's find what the congregation that left Egypt was called while they were in the wilderness;

Acts 7
[37] This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
[38] This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

So all of those that were in the wilderness was considered to be 'the church'. Now let's find just who it was that left Egypt;

Exod.12
[37] And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
[38] And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

So it was NOT only the nation of Israel that left Egypt....there was a 'mixed multitude' of people that also left. And this entire congregation was called "the church". Now let's jump to a future time in the book of Rev.

Rev.12
[1] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Above we read of the nation of Israel once again described as the sun, the moon and twelve stars. Let's read what God did for her. But before reading, the reader must understand that sometimes within the same chapter of the book of Rev., you may be presented with both past AND future events. Let's read;

Rev.12
[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
[14] And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

So at some point the woman (the church) flees into the wilderness, a place prepared by God, and she is fed there for 3.5yrs. Does this not sound like God is protecting the church? Let's find if all were protected;

[15] And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
[16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

We find that even after Satan saw that those in the wilderness, he still tried to harm them. And again we find that God protects them.

So when Satan found that he could not destroy those that were protected, he turned toward those that were not being protected (the remnant of the woman). These are those that, for whatever reason, did NOT make it to God's place of safety, yet they know to keep His laws. It is these that Satan prevails over. Let's confirm;

Rev.13
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Again.....we already know that God has a place prepared for His church, those that obey. They are protected first because God prepared a place for them, and after Satan tries to attack, God has the earth to further help the church in the wilderness. Let's now go to Dan, to confirm further. But again....just as in the book of Rev., while reading the book of Dan., the reader may encounter both past and future events within the same chapter. Let's read;

Dan.7
[21] I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Now which saints could it be that Satan prevails over? Could it be those that are in the prepared place by God? No! For God's word tells us that even after Satan tried to attack them, God still helped and protected them. So which are these that Satan prevailed over?

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Those that, for whatever reason, did NOT make it to God's prepared place of safety. The remnant, the remaining saints that know to keep the laws of God.


Why would God's word tells us throughout the entire bible of a place of safety just to have Satan overcome and destroy the church? Why would God have Dan. and John tell us of a place that is prepared for the exact amount of time that the tribulation period would be if the saints were not going to be there?

Does that make sense?

Readers....if you have faith and believe in God's words and OBEY, you and your family WILL be protected. You will have nothing to fear. You will see death and destruction all around you, but you and your family will be protected by the angels that God will provide to those that trust His words and flee to the wilderness.

If you decide to stay put thinking that God will provide, when He has already given you fair warning on where and when to flee this is what you will have to look forward to;

Rev.13
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
[4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
[5] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
[6] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
[9] If any man have an ear, let him hear.
[10] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
[11] And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
[12] And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
[13] And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
[14] And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
[15] And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


You do have a choice. Stay and try to survive what God has already told us will be the worse time on earth there has ever been and ever will be......or;


Matt.24
[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


.

That was very good.

The woman is the church that flees into the wilderness, and the remnant of the woman her seed is them that don’t flee.

Praise the lord

 

[tishri22]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

This is not true. God does not protect the church, He gives satan authority to make war with the saints (the church) and prevail. Rev 12, 13 Along with Dan 7

You must read a different scripture than the rest of us.

There is something more to this than you're noting (though what you're saying is true, but- incomplete). What you're seeing here (esp at Rev 13) is a recounting of the seige of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and the carrying away of the Jews into Babylonian captivity. This is what Nebuchadnezzar did; he made war against the inhabitants of Judah and Jerusalem (the people of the Lord), he overcame them, he took them all captive, and he builded a great image and commanded all the earth to either worship it or die. This is what is being alluded to here. Anyone should be able to see this is clearly the case- everything is the same. Now bear in mind this:

Ec 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

When we get to the Revelation we are not being left totally in the dark, needing to "figure things out" in a vacuum; God has already shown us all the details by way of earthly things so we can look at the pattern and know for certain what is to occur. So we can look at the prophets such as Jeremiah, and see the history of these events in detail, and by this, we know what the Revelation is saying- it's right there playing itself out in front of our eyes: the only thing that changes is the players, as it were. Meaning, the first time these things came to pass against the people under the old covenant: the next time it comes to pass against the people of the new covenant- in a spiritual fashion instead of the former natural fashion. First the natural, then the spiritual.

So looking back at these events what do we see? Does God protect his people? Well, he protects the ones that do what he tells them to do by the mouth of the prophets. Now, this is only a very small "remnant" of people- but they are the Lord's chosen and he does indeed protect them, even causing the enemy to "entreat thee well":

Jer 15:11 The LORD said, Verily it shall be well with thy remnant; verily I will cause the enemy to entreat thee well in the time of evil and in the time of affliction.

But as for the vast majority of the people of the Lord, what happened? They refused to listen to the word of God, they would not pay attention to the prophets, they clung to the lies and traditions they had supplanted the word of God with; the refused to repent and return to God- and it was these people that were not protected. These are the saints that are overcome and carried away captive.

Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein. Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.

Jer 15:1 Then said the LORD unto me, Though Moses and Samuel stood before me, yet my mind could not be toward this people: cast them out of my sight, and let them go forth.

Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Most like to think of Christianity as one huge mass of saved people but this is not so- many are called but few are chosen. There is a people in the kingdom that offends the Lord:

Mt 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

So then, just as the king of Babylon was given authority to war against the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and overcome them, and carry them away out of the land- but God is with his chosen people, to protect them and deliver them. Consider the three children who were delivered from the fiery furnace, and the man Daniel who was protected from the mouth of the lions. These signify the 144,000 virgins, and these are they which God protects.

Did you know that the Israelies openly mocked Jeremiah the prophet, even throwing him into a pit, and putting him in prison for bringing them the word of the Lord? Yes, this is what they did to Jeremiah, who daily warned them that the king of Babylon was coming to burn Jerusalem with fire. But they did not like to hear this at all, so they refused to listen to his words, and said:

Jer 18:18 Then said they, Come, and let us devise devices against Jeremiah; for the law shall not perish from the priest, nor counsel from the wise, nor the word from the prophet. Come, and let us smite him with the tongue, and let us not give heed to any of his words.

Note "smite him with the tongue"- they were making fun of him and his words, which we the Lord's words. But then the king of Babylon did come, and the city fell, and the mockers slain and carried away. But do you know what happened to Jeremiah? He was put into prison by the Israelites; but do you know who set him free? Do you know who came to the aid of Jeremiah? It was the king of Babylon.

Jer 38:28 So Jeremiah abode in the court of the prison until the day that Jerusalem was taken: and he was there when Jerusalem was taken.

Jer 40:1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, after that Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard had let him go from Ramah, when he had taken him being bound in chains among all that were carried away captive of Jerusalem and Judah, which were carried away captive unto Babylon.
2 And the captain of the guard took Jeremiah, and said unto him, The LORD thy God hath pronounced this evil upon this place.
3 Now the LORD hath brought it, and done according as he hath said: because ye have sinned against the LORD, and have not obeyed his voice, therefore this thing is come upon you.
4 And now, behold, I loose thee this day from the chains which were upon thine hand. If it seem good unto thee to come with me into Babylon, come; and I will look well unto thee: but if it seem ill unto thee to come with me into Babylon, forbear: behold, all the land is before thee: whither it seemeth good and convenient for thee to go, thither go.
5 Now while he was not yet gone back, he said, Go back also to Gedaliah the son of Ahikam the son of Shaphan, whom the king of Babylon hath made governor over the cities of Judah, and dwell with him among the people: or go wheresoever it seemeth convenient unto thee to go. So the captain of the guard gave him victuals and a reward, and let him go.
6 Then went Jeremiah unto Gedaliah the son of Ahikam to Mizpah; and dwelt with him among the people that were left in the land.

How about that? The very one called "the destroyer of nations" charged his own men to do no harm to Jeremiah, and to undo the things his own people had done to him; and set him at liberty when all the mockers were removed from the land.

Jer 15:11 The LORD said, Verily it shall be well with thy remnant; verily I will cause the enemy to entreat thee well in the time of evil and in the time of affliction.

 

[Kefa52]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

I guess the secrets out now! Its in my backyard, my shed actually. It can hold 2 Christians comfortably. Oh and it smells a little.

A little Febreze works wonders.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

If this is what you believe then sobeit! If you do not believe God will prepare a place of safety for His saints in the wilderness that is for you and your family to deal with. You will not get an argument out of me!

But as I said....as for me and my family...we will obey God and FLEE! And as I am reading....I see there are others on this forum that I will see in the wilderness!


.

1. He told those in judea to flee to the mountains. not anyone else.
2. You think you will be able to hide in the mountains? Good luck

better to get people saved so they do not have to worry about what happens. because they ill be future focused on eternity. not here on earth.. then let people think they will be safe if they flee.. and not have what they really need, which is eternal life

 

[tishri22]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

Readers.....does the following sound "spiritual"?

Of course to the carnal mind the words of God sound carnal; to the spiritual mind, they sound spiritual- this is nothing new. But far be it from me to stand in any man's way. If you want to put your carnal shoes next to the carnal door and get ready to do some carnal running, I certainly won't prevent it. Stock up on all the carnal food your heart desires. Stock up on carnal gold. Get all the carnal preparations you think you're going to need. All I can do is shake me head and say, "Friend, you're preparing for the wrong apocalypse- and not a carnal thing in this carnal world is going to help you." There's only one thing that is going to be anyone's shield and security: the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Dan.12
[1] And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:

There will be great tribulation, such as never was since there was a nation. True enough. Spiritual tribulation. Will you be deceived? Will you fall? Beliefs will be challenged. Crowns will be lost. Some will stand, many will fall.

2 Thes.2
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Do you not know that you are the temple of God? The temple will be measured.

Just how does this, "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.", sound "spiritual"?

2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Readers......Daniel, Jesus and the rest of the prophets were giving us a literal account of what IS going to happen one day here on earth.

Expecting to see a 10-horned creature rising from the Mediterranean? Or are you expecting to see multi-colored horses riding through the streets on channel666 news? Expecting to see a woman flying through the air with wings of an eagle? A creature that looks like a lamb speaking with a dragon's voice? Expecting to see winged men pouring out vials? Expecting to turn on the youtube.com and see video of a ram fighting with a goat?

And there WILL be a literal place of safety for you and your family to flee.

1Tim 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

I hope your sneakers are able to outrun foolish and hurtful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.

1Co 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

You claim that God does not protect the church. You claim that God gives Satan authority to make war with the saints and that Satan prevails against them. Let's read scripture to find if your claims line up with scripture;

First let us find who some of the players are that are mentioned throughout the bible;

Gen.37
[5] And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more.
[6] And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:
[7] For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
[8] And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
[9] And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
[10] And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

Above we find that Joseph, one of the 12 tribes of the nation of Israel, had dreams. And in one of his dreams he describes the entire nation of Israel as being made up of, the sun, the moon and eleven stars. This represented his father (the sun), his mother (the moon) and his eleven brothers (eleven stars) with Joseph being the 12th star.

Now let's find what the congregation that left Egypt was called while they were in the wilderness;

Acts 7
[37] This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
[38] This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

So all of those that were in the wilderness was considered to be 'the church'. Now let's find just who it was that left Egypt;

Exod.12
[37] And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
[38] And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

So it was NOT only the nation of Israel that left Egypt....there was a 'mixed multitude' of people that also left. And this entire congregation was called "the church". Now let's jump to a future time in the book of Rev.

Rev.12
[1] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Above we read of the nation of Israel once again described as the sun, the moon and twelve stars. Let's read what God did for her. But before reading, the reader must understand that sometimes within the same chapter of the book of Rev., you may be presented with both past AND future events. Let's read;

Rev.12
[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
[14] And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

So at some point the woman (the church) flees into the wilderness, a place prepared by God, and she is fed there for 3.5yrs. Does this not sound like God is protecting the church? Let's find if all were protected;

[15] And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
[16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

We find that even after Satan saw that those in the wilderness, he still tried to harm them. And again we find that God protects them.

So when Satan found that he could not destroy those that were protected, he turned toward those that were not being protected (the remnant of the woman). These are those that, for whatever reason, did NOT make it to God's place of safety, yet they know to keep His laws. It is these that Satan prevails over. Let's confirm;

Rev.13
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Again.....we already know that God has a place prepared for His church, those that obey. They are protected first because God prepared a place for them, and after Satan tries to attack, God has the earth to further help the church in the wilderness. Let's now go to Dan, to confirm further. But again....just as in the book of Rev., while reading the book of Dan., the reader may encounter both past and future events within the same chapter. Let's read;

Dan.7
[21] I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Now which saints could it be that Satan prevails over? Could it be those that are in the prepared place by God? No! For God's word tells us that even after Satan tried to attack them, God still helped and protected them. So which are these that Satan prevailed over?

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Those that, for whatever reason, did NOT make it to God's prepared place of safety. The remnant, the remaining saints that know to keep the laws of God.


Why would God's word tells us throughout the entire bible of a place of safety just to have Satan overcome and destroy the church? Why would God have Dan. and John tell us of a place that is prepared for the exact amount of time that the tribulation period would be if the saints were not going to be there?

Does that make sense?

Readers....if you have faith and believe in God's words and OBEY, you and your family WILL be protected. You will have nothing to fear. You will see death and destruction all around you, but you and your family will be protected by the angels that God will provide to those that trust His words and flee to the wilderness.

If you decide to stay put thinking that God will provide, when He has already given you fair warning on where and when to flee this is what you will have to look forward to;

Rev.13
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
[4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
[5] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
[6] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
[9] If any man have an ear, let him hear.
[10] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
[11] And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
[12] And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
[13] And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
[14] And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
[15] And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


You do have a choice. Stay and try to survive what God has already told us will be the worse time on earth there has ever been and ever will be......or;


Matt.24
[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


.

yes, lets do.

Dan 7: He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

rev 13: 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them

who do you think gives him power to make war with the saints and overcome them??

 

[Eccl12and13]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

Readers.....do not be mislead. The events spoken of in Rev.12 speaks of a future event. It speaks of a time coming when those that obey the word of God, flee into the wilderness and are taken care of in a place that God prepared for a period of 3.5yrs.

It will be a place where you, your family and all that trust God's words will be spared having to go through the tribulation period.



.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

Expecting to see a 10-horned creature rising from the Mediterranean? Or are you expecting to see multi-colored horses riding through the streets on channel666 news? Expecting to see a woman flying through the air with wings of an eagle? A creature that looks like a lamb speaking with a dragon's voice? Expecting to see winged men pouring out vials? Expecting to turn on the youtube.com and see video of a ram fighting with a goat?

No! What I expect is for one to pray for wisdom and understanding concerning God's word. If God's deems you worthy He will open your eyes and understanding to know the difference from those things He speaks of figurative verses literal.

If you are not aware that God tells us just what the above symbols represent....then some more praying is needed.

.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

Dan 7: He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

rev 13: 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them

who do you think gives him power to make war with the saints and overcome them??

So God prepares a place for the church, nourishes the church .....JUST so that Satan can overcome them?

Rev.12
[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
[14] And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


OR......could THESE be those that are overcome by Satan.......


Rev.12
[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Because if we read a few verses up we find that Satan TRIED to capture those that are protected but could not;

Rev.12
[15] And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
[16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

After he found that he could not get to those that were in the place prepared by God, Satan got mad and went after those that did not make it to the place of safety, but yet knew to keep God's commandments and not take the mark.




.

 

[tishri22]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

No!

So, not carnal? Half carnal, half figurative with a twist of lime?

What I expect is for one to pray for wisdom and understanding concerning God's word. If God's deems you worthy He will open your eyes and understanding to know the difference from those things He speaks of figurative verses literal.

If you are not aware that God tells us just what the above symbols represent....then some more praying is needed.

Oh I'm well aware of what these things mean. God didn't write such a large and exacting book filled with patterns and repeating symbols and covenant phrases for nothing. Everything that is occuring in the Revelation has been played out for you over and over and over again in exacting detail since Genesis 1:1. There's no possible way for anyone with knowledge of the word of God to misunderstand anything being said here.

But, by all means, I'll put your sneakers by your door; and the sneakers of anyone else who desires it. It's going to be ineresting watching the lot of you trying to outrun what's coming with your carnal legs. I won't lie- I may even laugh once or twice.

 

[layman316]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

Finding God’s Secret Place

God has a place for the church to live during the Great Tribulation. He calls it the “secret place”. We will be feed and taken care of for “a time, times and the dividing of time”, or “one-thousand, two hundred and three score days”, or “forty-two months”, all of which is equals to 3.5yrs. We will be kept from ALL harm. The wild beast we will not fear. We will be able to see the destruction and wrath of God on all sides, but no harm will become us. There will be plenty of water, fruit and herbs for us to enjoy. Those that are ill will become well. The desert will bring forth grass. The parched land will become a pool of water.

Does that sound great or what? To some it may even sound hard to believe, but it’s true! God has a secret place for the church during the Great Tribulation (GT) period and it is described just as I said above. The description can be found throughout the bible. And yes…this place is right here on earth. NO….we are NOT going to be taken from this earth off to heaven during the GT. We will be right here in the wilderness, if you are so blessed, where God told us to go.

I’m sure some are saying “Where in the bible does it say all of that?”. Well, if we follow God’s instructions for reading and studying His word it can be found everywhere.

Isa.28
[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Topic with topic. Line upon line. Searching the scriptures here and there.

With that said, let’s find God’s “Secret Place”!



Finding God’s Secret Place Throughout the Scripture

Let’s think about something before our search. Let’s count how many times God had to remove His children from this earth because of His pending wrath and judgments against the wicked;

He didn’t remove anyone for the flood.
He didn’t remove anybody for the (10) plagues of Egypt.
No one was taken for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Nor was anyone removed for ANY of the many wars fought.
He didn’t remove Mary, Joseph and Jesus from Herod’s terror.

Not one time did God EVER remove His children from this earth for ANYTHING! So why should He have to do it for the Great Tribulation? He doesn’t. And He will not. Now let’s find God’s “secret place”;

God has a secret place or a place of safety that He will prepare for His church and He will keep those that understand safe from ALL harm for the entire time of the Tribulation period, 3.5yrs.

2Pt 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

This “…hour of temptation…” that will come upon ALL the world is indeed the Great Tribulation period.

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 3.5 years. Rev 12:6.

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 3.5 years. Rev 12:14.

The woman above is God’s church; ALL those that believe and trust in the true and living God are they that make up this church.

But this is not the only place that we are told about a place of safety; there are MANY more scriptures to be found, yes FOUND! Because you truly must ask God for wisdom and understanding when searching His word to know and understand just what these scriptures are talking about.

Let’s read search God’s word and read some of them…..

Pss.91
[1] He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
[3] Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

By the mouth of David we are told the Lord will deliver us from the “snare of the fowler”.

[7] A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
[8] Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

There will be destruction on both sides but no harm will come to us. Why? He tells us…

[9] Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
[10] There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
[11] For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
[12] They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
[13] Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.

The angels of the Lord will be there to protect and to guide.

Isa.16
[1] Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.
[2] For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.
[3] Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
[4] Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.

Again God tells us He will protect us from the spoiler, and this protection is in the wilderness.

Isa.35
[1] The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.
[2] It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.
[3] Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.
[4] Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.
[7] And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.
[8] And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.
[9] No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:

We will be fully taken care of. Food, shelter, water….we will not even have to worry about the beast of the field.

Isa.41
[18] I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.
[19] I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together:
[20] That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.

Please note that ALL of these events are things that WILL happen, for the desert of the children of Israel are yet barren.

Not only is God's secret place hid from those with natural eyes, but His secret place is also hid from most spiritual eyes, for you truly MUST search the scriptures to find God's secret place.


Let’s review:

Who is this Woman that fled into the wilderness? The woman is the church.

Rv 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
14: And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Where is this wilderness and solitary place of God? The mountains of Jerusalem.

Psalm 91v1
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
Isaiah 35v1-10
1 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.

Why is the Lord(lamb) sent to the wilderness to the daughters of Zion? To help, protect, teach and guide those that arrive.

Isaiah 16v1-5
1 Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.

Isaiah 41v17-20
17 When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst, I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them.
18 I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.
19 I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together:
20 That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.

Why is this happening in the wilderness? To protect the church.

Isaiah 43v19-20
19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.

Please understand…..the wilderness is NOT now what it is yet to be! Why? Well…..what has man ALWAYS done to fertile ground? Build, pollute and destroy! But there will come a time when you will see a change near the mountains of Jerusalem. Water WILL start to spring forth! Flowers, fruits and trees WILL start to bloom! Beast will start to migrate! And those with wisdom and understanding WILL come! All that God’s word said will happen WILL happen! My question to those reading is this, What will YOU do when you see all of these changes taking place?

Its obvious that this place called the wilderness is not taught in many churches. It truly is a secret. God revealed this secret to his prophets, and to all with wisdom and understanding.

Now that you know…….What will YOU do when you see the signs in the wilderness and the man of sin placed in the temple? Will you do as your God instructs? Will you have FAITH in His words? Will you FLEE to His “secret place“?



.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.





We see the bride of Christ (the church) in heaven arrayed in fine linen, clean. The church is not on earth for the tribulation period.




Rev 3:10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.




The word "dwell" means "to house permanently,"

The church will not "dwell" permanently on earth, which means the church is not on the earth at this point.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

So God prepares a place for the church, nourishes the church .....JUST so that Satan can overcome them?

Rev.12
[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
[14] And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

The woman is not the church. The church did not give birth to Christ. why do you people keep demanding the one who birthed the church was bore by the very thing he gave life to? Without Christ, there would be no church. Comprende??

OR......could THESE be those that are overcome by Satan.......


Rev.12
[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The offspring of the woman would be who?

Well if Isreal through Abraham gave birth to Christ and is the woman. Then her offspring through Christ would be the church, who Christ gave life to. It is also these people who obey the commands of God. And as the passage said, He goes to make war with her. The two passages I quoted say the exact same thing. and they say HE OVERCOMES THEM. do you believe God? or mans interpretations?

Because if we read a few verses up we find that Satan TRIED to capture those that are protected but could not;

Rev.12
[15] And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
[16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

After he found that he could not get to those that were in the place prepared by God, Satan got mad and went after those that did not make it to the place of safety, but yet knew to keep God's commandments and not take the mark.

Not the same. The woman is not the offspring, is not the woman.

The woman is protected, her offspring is not. Your trying to make them the same when they are not.

This is the end of the rule of the gentiles. The beast is the final Gentile ruler. He will be destroyed by Christ himself returning. When Christ returns, and this "times of the gentile" are put to an end. As Paul said in romans 11. All Isreal will be saved. God has to protect them so there are some left to be saved, or his prophesy is useless. The church is already saved, they look to eternity, which comforts them. This is the word we need to get out. so everyone has a chance to get saved, or they will not have an eternity to comfort them. God never promised safety or security to any child of His. He only promised that we will suffer persecution and hate, because the enemy of his hates him, thus he will hate us.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE]We see the bride of Christ (the church) in heaven arrayed in fine linen, clean. The church is not on earth for the tribulation period.




Rev 3:10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.




The word "dwell" means "to house permanently,"

The church will not "dwell" permanently on earth, which means the church is not on the earth at this point.

Well....let's look at the scriptures and find if they line up with your claim. You claim that the word "dwell" means;...."...to house permanently." Now let's read some more scriptures;

Jer.7
[1] The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
[2] Stand in the gate of the LORD's house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the LORD, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the LORD.
[3] Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place.
[4] Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these.
[5] For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;
[6] If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:
[7] Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.

If we go with your definition of the word "dwell", the above would mean just what God's word's has said throughout the bible, that the nation of Israel will dwell in the land promised to their fathers forever. That also means that heaven will NOT be their final dwelling place. Let's read more;

Jer.23
[3] And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.
[4] And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD.
[5] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
[6] In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Again we find that God's word tells us of the dwelling place of the nation of Israel; Zion or Jerusalem. Again....you claim the the word dwell means, "...to house permanently.". Well...once again, the Lord did not lie when He promised the nation of Israel the land of Jerusalem. And again....that also means that heaven will NOT be their final dwelling place. Let's read more;

Ezek.37
[23] Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
[25] And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

Over and over and over God's word keeps telling us where the nation of Israel will dwell FOREVER!

Now.....let's read of the final dwelling place of God. But let's not forget your claim; You claim that the word dwell means, "...to house permanently."! So let's read to see if God will dwell PERMANENTLY in heaven.

Rev.21
[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

God's word tells us that even God will dwell here on earth with man. So if God is not in heaven...where will man's final dwelling place be? The same place that God has always desired to live;

Pss.132
[13] For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
[14] This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.


The church will be protected in the wilderness for 3.5yrs during the tribulation period. These are those that will be kept from, "...the hour of temptation..."!


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[Eccl12and13]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

The woman is not the church. The church did not give birth to Christ. why do you people keep demanding the one who birthed the church was bore by the very thing he gave life to? Without Christ, there would be no church. Comprende??

Let's do this one step at a time. Let's first find who God, not man, considers HIS church to be.

Acts 7
[37] This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
[38] This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

So who was the church? The entire congregation that left Egypt was the church. Now let's read who it was that left Egypt;

Exod.12
[37] And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
[38] And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

So the church did NOT consist only of the nation of Israel. The church that was in the wilderness was made up of ALL that believed in the true and living God.

And who is God's church today? The exact same as it was during Moses day; the nation of Israel and ALL that believe in the true and living God!

Now that we know who God considers His church to be let's find who the women is.


Gen.37
[5] And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more.
[6] And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:
[7] For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
[8] And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
[9] And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
[10] And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

Above we find that Joseph, one of the 12 tribes of the nation of Israel, had dreams. And in one of his dreams he describes the entire nation of Israel as being made up of, the sun, the moon and eleven stars. This represented his father (the sun), his mother (the moon) and his eleven brothers (eleven stars) with Joseph being the 12th star.

Now let's find this same woman in the book of Rev.;

Rev.12
[1] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Above we read of the nation of Israel once again described as the sun, the moon and twelve stars.

Now since we have proved that the church consist of the nation of Israel and that the woman IS the nation of Israel, who is it that is the church? The woman is the church. And out of the woman, which IS the nation of Israel, was born Christ.

So....is this wrong? Is there anything above that is not correct according to the word of God?



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[peterT]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.





We see the bride of Christ (the church) in heaven arrayed in fine linen, clean. The church is not on earth for the tribulation period.




Rev 3:10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.




The word "dwell" means "to house permanently,"

The church will not "dwell" permanently on earth, which means the church is not on the earth at this point.

Here we are, standing on the sea of glass in the heavens AFTER getting the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and BEFORE the seven angels having the seven last plagues pour out his wrath

Rv15:1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
8And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

The bride of Christ (the church) in heaven arrayed in fine linen, clean, AFTER the tribulation AFTER getting the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark

And he well keep you from the hour of temptation if you flee to the wilderness.

 

[peterT]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

The woman is not the church. The church did not give birth to Christ. why do you people keep demanding the one who birthed the church was bore by the very thing he gave life to? Without Christ, there would be no church. Comprende??



The offspring of the woman would be who?

Well if Isreal through Abraham gave birth to Christ and is the woman. Then her offspring through Christ would be the church, who Christ gave life to. It is also these people who obey the commands of God. And as the passage said, He goes to make war with her. The two passages I quoted say the exact same thing. and they say HE OVERCOMES THEM. do you believe God? or mans interpretations?




Not the same. The woman is not the offspring, is not the woman.

The woman is protected, her offspring is not. Your trying to make them the same when they are not.

This is the end of the rule of the gentiles. The beast is the final Gentile ruler. He will be destroyed by Christ himself returning. When Christ returns, and this "times of the gentile" are put to an end. As Paul said in romans 11. All Isreal will be saved. God has to protect them so there are some left to be saved, or his prophesy is useless. The church is already saved, they look to eternity, which comforts them. This is the word we need to get out. so everyone has a chance to get saved, or they will not have an eternity to comfort them. God never promised safety or security to any child of His. He only promised that we will suffer persecution and hate, because the enemy of his hates him, thus he will hate us. [/color][/size]

All this on this thread and all this scripture, and you still think it’s the Jews of the flesh that are protected and fed by God away from the tribulation why’ll Christians have to go through tribulation and Jews don’t
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Don’t be like most of our forefathers that were stiff neck and uncircumcised in heart and ears and harden their hearts when they heard the word of the lord .

Today if you hear the word of the lord harden not your hearts

Hebrews 3:15 While it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Hebrews 4:7 --Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

God never promised safety or security to any child of His. He only promised that we will suffer persecution and hate, because the enemy of his hates him, thus he will hate us.

Next....if we take your statement above, why would anyone want to serve God? But let's read what God's word tell us He WILL do for those that believe and obey Him;


Pss.91
[1] He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
[3] Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

By the mouth of David we are told the Lord will deliver us from the “snare of the fowler”.

[7] A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
[8] Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

There will be destruction on both sides but no harm will come to us. Why? He tells us…

[9] Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
[10] There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
[11] For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
[12] They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
[13] Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.

Is this not protection by God to those that believe?


Would it be wrong to think that at some point God is going to protect those that trust Him?




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[eternally-gratefull]

Re: God’s Secret Place for His Church during the Tribulation

Let's do this one step at a time. Let's first find who God, not man, considers HIS church to be.

Acts 7
[37] This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
[38] This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

So who was the church? The entire congregation that left Egypt was the church. Now let's read who it was that left Egypt;

So let me get this straight. You think everyone who left Egypt are saints of the most High God? That all of them.. you know. those people who rejected his provisions and followed the gods of Egypt are saved?

Because the "saints of the most high" are what we are told the beast Goes after.

As for acts 7. Luke was telling us who it was that was with the assembly, or congregation of Isreal who left Egypt. Your misinterpreting what he said. That church was not saved.

Exod.12
[37] And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
[38] And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

So the church did NOT consist only of the nation of Israel. The church that was in the wilderness was made up of ALL that believed in the true and living God.

And who is God's church today? The exact same as it was during Moses day; the nation of Israel and ALL that believe in the true and living God!

Now that we know who God considers His church to be let's find who the women is.


Gen.37
[5] And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more.
[6] And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:
[7] For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
[8] And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
[9] And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
[10] And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

Above we find that Joseph, one of the 12 tribes of the nation of Israel, had dreams. And in one of his dreams he describes the entire nation of Israel as being made up of, the sun, the moon and eleven stars. This represented his father (the sun), his mother (the moon) and his eleven brothers (eleven stars) with Joseph being the 12th star.

Wow, where do you get this crap? Josephs dream was fulfilled. He was placed in power in egypt. and saved his father and brothers from drout, God used him to keep the nation of Israel intact.. before it even got off the ground.

As for mother. there were a few mothers of the 12. not one. Secondly. Non of their children were promised salvation just by being a child.. Never has been this way.

And yes, The "saints of the most high" in the OT has ALWAYS been saved jew or gentile. But who paid the price for their sin, and gave life to their salvation? Christ. You see, Christ gave birth to their new life (spiritual)

The woman is physical (Isreal) her offspring is spiritual (Saints of the most High)

Now let's find this same woman in the book of Rev.;

Rev.12
[1] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Above we read of the nation of Israel once again described as the sun, the moon and twelve stars.

Now since we have proved that the church consist of the nation of Israel and that the woman IS the nation of Israel, who is it that is the church? The woman is the church. And out of the woman, which IS the nation of Israel, was born Christ.

The assembly of Isreal is the woman.. CHurch is just a name which comes from the greek word ekklesia which means assembly. There are many assemblies all throughout time. But their is only one true church (saints of the most High)

Try to figure this out. Unless your saying ALL Isreal was saved as the church, your argument fails.

So....is this wrong? Is there anything above that is not correct according to the word of God?

Yes, your misinterpretation.. You are saying all isreal is the church, and the church is the church. I guess all isreal is already saved according to you.. You need to rethink your argument