-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Contained within the Lord's prayer are all that we need wish.
Our Father, who dwells in heaven - God dwells not on Earth, but in 'heaven'. In 'the Kingdom of God'. In purity. Without flaw. Sinless.
Hallowed be thy name - May your name not be desecrated.
Thy Kingdom come - Bring your way, your kingdom, your will upon us.
Thy WILL be done - Do your will, God. For it is righteous.
Be it on Earth as it is in heaven - Bring us to you. Let all things be renewed. Be it on Earth as it is where you are. Be all as it is you wish.
Give us this day our daily bread - Give us what we need, God.
And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us - Let us forgive as you have forgiven. and let us be then dealt to the measure we have dealt out, even so we be humbled more!
Lead us not into temptation - Do not forsake us into sinful desires. We want YOUR way!!
But deliver us from evil - Do not let us neither possess nor give evil, so then we mightn't receive it while we are here.
For yours is the Kingdom, power and glory - For it is your way that is right. You are powerful. It is for you we stem away from evil.
For ever and ever - Always.
Amen.
Our Father, who dwells in heaven - God dwells not on Earth, but in 'heaven'. In 'the Kingdom of God'. In purity. Without flaw. Sinless.
Hallowed be thy name - May your name not be desecrated.
Thy Kingdom come - Bring your way, your kingdom, your will upon us.
Thy WILL be done - Do your will, God. For it is righteous.
Be it on Earth as it is in heaven - Bring us to you. Let all things be renewed. Be it on Earth as it is where you are. Be all as it is you wish.
Give us this day our daily bread - Give us what we need, God.
And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us - Let us forgive as you have forgiven. and let us be then dealt to the measure we have dealt out, even so we be humbled more!
Lead us not into temptation - Do not forsake us into sinful desires. We want YOUR way!!
But deliver us from evil - Do not let us neither possess nor give evil, so then we mightn't receive it while we are here.
For yours is the Kingdom, power and glory - For it is your way that is right. You are powerful. It is for you we stem away from evil.
For ever and ever - Always.
Amen.
Also, I am believing in Christ, as it is intended. For Christ came to do the will of the father!
'He who believes upon me shall be saved'.
I am saved. Because I am now free of fear. I am free of want. God is giving me everything that I wish. However, I never knew that I wished as God wished, until I knew what it was that God wished!! My mind has been renewed. My sight, restored, even if only partially. And I can safely say, that I am glad to see God has wrought with me for his name's sake.
God IS righteous. And God's anger DOES NOT harbour forever. God is long-suffering. God DOES love us all.
God has given me, in these past few years, less and less reason for hate. For spite. For anger. For not forgiving.
What is the point of such hateful things? Why be tempted anymore?
The forbidden fruit is gone. Jesus truly did make things anew.
'A testimony to be proven in due time'.
It has been proven to me. And my faith sees that it happens, in my mind.
'He who believes upon me shall be saved'.
I am saved. Because I am now free of fear. I am free of want. God is giving me everything that I wish. However, I never knew that I wished as God wished, until I knew what it was that God wished!! My mind has been renewed. My sight, restored, even if only partially. And I can safely say, that I am glad to see God has wrought with me for his name's sake.
God IS righteous. And God's anger DOES NOT harbour forever. God is long-suffering. God DOES love us all.
God has given me, in these past few years, less and less reason for hate. For spite. For anger. For not forgiving.
What is the point of such hateful things? Why be tempted anymore?
The forbidden fruit is gone. Jesus truly did make things anew.
'A testimony to be proven in due time'.
It has been proven to me. And my faith sees that it happens, in my mind.
Last edited:
God loves those who believe adn do as he wishes, because who wouldn't?
If I had many sons and daughters, and one does all that I ask, will I not love him?
And if I have one who strays away, and is lost, and then is found again, won't I 'slay a lamb' for him and have a feast?
And won't my 'son in the middle' (Christians in general) be jealous and say 'but Father, look at all I have done for you, yet you give him a feast' ...
And won't the father explain to the sons that it brings him joy to have his lost son back. Won't he tell his sons not to be angry, and that they have been good sons ....
Jesus told this story for a reason!
If I had many sons and daughters, and one does all that I ask, will I not love him?
And if I have one who strays away, and is lost, and then is found again, won't I 'slay a lamb' for him and have a feast?
And won't my 'son in the middle' (Christians in general) be jealous and say 'but Father, look at all I have done for you, yet you give him a feast' ...
And won't the father explain to the sons that it brings him joy to have his lost son back. Won't he tell his sons not to be angry, and that they have been good sons ....
Jesus told this story for a reason!
Here is a question for the hearts of those reading.
Did Jesus wish that all be forgiven and saved, as God wishes? Does Jesus wish the same as God? And if so, who is judgement handed to? When he got up onto that cross and nails were driven through his gentle hands, did He forgive his persecutors, along with many other 'unsaved' persons? Did Jesus die for more than just the few who believe in him fully, as men put 'belief'? Do we not put conditions and clauses, and re-crucify Christ by saying both equally; that we must do all these things to 'get into heaven', and also equally, that 'lots will go to hell', when Jesus has explicitly (as John the Elijah says ) 'has died not only for our sins, but the sins of the whole world'? Do we not shame ourselves whenever we say that 'no, in fact, that was a lie, there are conditions?'
I believe that the benefit of good living, is a better reason for abstinence from that 'which is not beneficial', than 'fear of eternal torment'. And it is proven to me. It was also proven to Paul. The law was as forbidden fruit, full of shame and guilt. Yet the grace of Christ makes a heart softer than a sunset.
One that God can mould as he sees fit.
My personal struggle, in hindsight, was never with others or with myself, but rather it was with God. I angered at him, always asking 'why should we, God? Why should we, when all I feel is pain? Look at the world! It is horrible!!' And the answer I got from others was 'because God says so, and if you don't you're going to hell!
What a burden!!
And in true 'mysterious ways', God showed me that I need not. And when I asked why, He said 'because I love you, that much'.
And you know what? That made me want to.
My anger left. My fear, was gone. My angst, no longer existent. All I had was this 'I want to love, because God has really, really, loved me'.
People think that having faith in God's wil as I havel, means there is just 'some sort of reason to wildly sin'. That is not the case. Believing and saying 'Your will be done', is like a weight off the shoulders for me. It's like when Jesus said 'My yoke is easy. My burden, is light'. I understand it now.
It is no longer 'effort' and temptation. Because I actually WANT to live a good life now. For the right reasons. Not for my reward. Nor for fear. But because God loves me.
Did Jesus wish that all be forgiven and saved, as God wishes? Does Jesus wish the same as God? And if so, who is judgement handed to? When he got up onto that cross and nails were driven through his gentle hands, did He forgive his persecutors, along with many other 'unsaved' persons? Did Jesus die for more than just the few who believe in him fully, as men put 'belief'? Do we not put conditions and clauses, and re-crucify Christ by saying both equally; that we must do all these things to 'get into heaven', and also equally, that 'lots will go to hell', when Jesus has explicitly (as John the Elijah says ) 'has died not only for our sins, but the sins of the whole world'? Do we not shame ourselves whenever we say that 'no, in fact, that was a lie, there are conditions?'
I believe that the benefit of good living, is a better reason for abstinence from that 'which is not beneficial', than 'fear of eternal torment'. And it is proven to me. It was also proven to Paul. The law was as forbidden fruit, full of shame and guilt. Yet the grace of Christ makes a heart softer than a sunset.
One that God can mould as he sees fit.
My personal struggle, in hindsight, was never with others or with myself, but rather it was with God. I angered at him, always asking 'why should we, God? Why should we, when all I feel is pain? Look at the world! It is horrible!!' And the answer I got from others was 'because God says so, and if you don't you're going to hell!
What a burden!!
And in true 'mysterious ways', God showed me that I need not. And when I asked why, He said 'because I love you, that much'.
And you know what? That made me want to.
My anger left. My fear, was gone. My angst, no longer existent. All I had was this 'I want to love, because God has really, really, loved me'.
People think that having faith in God's wil as I havel, means there is just 'some sort of reason to wildly sin'. That is not the case. Believing and saying 'Your will be done', is like a weight off the shoulders for me. It's like when Jesus said 'My yoke is easy. My burden, is light'. I understand it now.
It is no longer 'effort' and temptation. Because I actually WANT to live a good life now. For the right reasons. Not for my reward. Nor for fear. But because God loves me.
Last edited:
My faith is still young, and my life hasn't come to much, as of yet. I know that. And people are saying 'You're too young to understand, stick around a few more years'. and that's okay. Life does harden one's heart to desire hard justice and the like.
Many translators of the bible lived during the times of the crusades. Words were lost. People were hard hearted. The slightest mistranslations make for huge gaps in understanding.
So all I ask, even if you listen to nothing I have said, is to ask yourself this;
What is mercy in Jesus' life? What is power, and what is the will and restraint not to use it? What is forgiveness? What is love?
What is Jesus' will, if different than God's?
and by what power does Jesus have to make God's will happen?
And finally, the true question for all your hearts;
if Jesus has the power handed to Him by God, in order to make God's will happen, would he make it happen?
Would Jesus 'do the will of my Father who sent me?'
Many translators of the bible lived during the times of the crusades. Words were lost. People were hard hearted. The slightest mistranslations make for huge gaps in understanding.
So all I ask, even if you listen to nothing I have said, is to ask yourself this;
What is mercy in Jesus' life? What is power, and what is the will and restraint not to use it? What is forgiveness? What is love?
What is Jesus' will, if different than God's?
and by what power does Jesus have to make God's will happen?
And finally, the true question for all your hearts;
if Jesus has the power handed to Him by God, in order to make God's will happen, would he make it happen?
Would Jesus 'do the will of my Father who sent me?'
Last edited:
Indeed, I am. And thank you Loveme1.
You have shown more spirit to create peace here, in these words, than within the entire breadth of this thread. Something I forget sometimes.
'For the Kingdom of God is not something we will look at and say 'Behold, there it is', it is of peace, love and joy in the Holy Spirit.
And the reason that I reach out through my own experience in this thread, is because such peace has been brought on me through what I have learnt. The kind I want to share.
You have shown more spirit to create peace here, in these words, than within the entire breadth of this thread. Something I forget sometimes.
'For the Kingdom of God is not something we will look at and say 'Behold, there it is', it is of peace, love and joy in the Holy Spirit.
And the reason that I reach out through my own experience in this thread, is because such peace has been brought on me through what I have learnt. The kind I want to share.
K
Jesus is God. Jesus will is Gods will.
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been among you all this time without your knowing Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I speak to you I do not speak on My own. The Father who lives in Me does His works.
Let me just say one more thing here:
I used to fear hell. Fear punishment. And fear of that made me do good things. But they were never compassionate acts. They were through fear or for want of reward (being NOT a place in 'hell').
And when I realised all that I have shared here, I still sinned quite a lot more than I do now.
and what I felt, instead of fear, was shame.
It's like, when a father hits his child for doing wrongs (sends him to hell). The child no longer does these wrongs. But only for fear of being hit (fear of hell).
But instead if the father says 'i still love you, so much. And gives the son a gift (Jesus, and life). And explains why it is wrong to do what he has done, and shows disappointment. The son feels real tears. Real 'I am such a bad son. Why would I do that to my father? Look how much he loves me. I am disgusted with myself'.
And what the son does, is gives his gift away. 'i don't deserve this, someone else could use this'.
And the son says 'right, my father deserves better from me'. (adonai, you deserve better)
And the son does things for his father. He stops doing bad things. He gains his father's trust. He gains his father's approval. The father looks at his son and smiles and the son knows then. The son says' It's really worth it'.
The son doesn't desire gifts (eternal life), or fear being hit (fear hell). He simply does what he does, for his father, and for those whom he does the good things to. No more, no less. (I love God for he has loved me)
The son learns 'love'.
I used to fear hell. Fear punishment. And fear of that made me do good things. But they were never compassionate acts. They were through fear or for want of reward (being NOT a place in 'hell').
And when I realised all that I have shared here, I still sinned quite a lot more than I do now.
and what I felt, instead of fear, was shame.
It's like, when a father hits his child for doing wrongs (sends him to hell). The child no longer does these wrongs. But only for fear of being hit (fear of hell).
But instead if the father says 'i still love you, so much. And gives the son a gift (Jesus, and life). And explains why it is wrong to do what he has done, and shows disappointment. The son feels real tears. Real 'I am such a bad son. Why would I do that to my father? Look how much he loves me. I am disgusted with myself'.
And what the son does, is gives his gift away. 'i don't deserve this, someone else could use this'.
And the son says 'right, my father deserves better from me'. (adonai, you deserve better)
And the son does things for his father. He stops doing bad things. He gains his father's trust. He gains his father's approval. The father looks at his son and smiles and the son knows then. The son says' It's really worth it'.
The son doesn't desire gifts (eternal life), or fear being hit (fear hell). He simply does what he does, for his father, and for those whom he does the good things to. No more, no less. (I love God for he has loved me)
The son learns 'love'.
Last edited:
Although, on Jesus being God, as in, the very same entity, rather than 'One in spirit', this may help;
Therefore, I beg of you that before anything else, that you will offer supplications to God, and prayers for the sake of Kings and rulers, and intercessions and thanksgiving for the sake of all people, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil way of life in complete reverence to God and purity. For this is pleasing and acceptable before God, our Lifegiver; He who wills that all people shall have Life, and that all shall be converted to the knowledge of the truth. For God is One, and The Mediator of God and of the sons of men is One: The Son of Man, Yeshua The Messiah, Who gave himself as a ransom in the place of every person; a testimony to be proven in good time.
Therefore, I beg of you that before anything else, that you will offer supplications to God, and prayers for the sake of Kings and rulers, and intercessions and thanksgiving for the sake of all people, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil way of life in complete reverence to God and purity. For this is pleasing and acceptable before God, our Lifegiver; He who wills that all people shall have Life, and that all shall be converted to the knowledge of the truth. For God is One, and The Mediator of God and of the sons of men is One: The Son of Man, Yeshua The Messiah, Who gave himself as a ransom in the place of every person; a testimony to be proven in good time.
K
The Bible tells us:
However, here are many more verses showing that Jesus allowed Himself to be worshipped, simply because He was God "manifest in the flesh":
As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
—Acts 10:25,26
Peter refused worship in light of the Law that said,—Acts 10:25,26
You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.
In Revelation 19:10, when the apostle John saw an angel, he said,
I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said to me, See you do it not: I am your fellow-servant, and of your brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God.
Even the angel of the Lord refused to be worshipped.
However, here are many more verses showing that Jesus allowed Himself to be worshipped, simply because He was God "manifest in the flesh":
While he spoke these things to them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay your hand upon her, and she shall live
—Matthew 9:18
Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth you are the Son of God
—Matthew 14:33
Then she came and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me
—Matthew 15:25
And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him
—Matthew 28:9
When they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted
—Matthew 28:17
He received their worship because He was…—Matthew 9:18
Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth you are the Son of God
—Matthew 14:33
Then she came and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me
—Matthew 15:25
And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him
—Matthew 28:9
When they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted
—Matthew 28:17
…the image of the invisible God…
—Colossians 1:15) …God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory…
—1 Timothy 3:16, (emphasis added)
—Colossians 1:15) …God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory…
—1 Timothy 3:16, (emphasis added)
Yet, read correctly, the bible says that every knee will bow and every mouth will confess.
That means both knees will bow. To confess that Jesus Christ is Lord is to accept Him, by our own modern christian definition.
Thereafter, eternal torment follows for any of those?
And, that a great deception will come upon the earth, so that if the days aren't shortened, even the elect would be deceived. What is the deception? The sinless and glorifying concept that everyone is reconciled?
Or the concept that not only were some created with a concept of hope, yet in vain against their will, but that God has iniquity and even takes pleasure in it?
Think of the people that actually thrive on the idea of their enemies burning in hell forever.
The ones who smack the bible upon the pulpit and tell you that if you don't simply say uncle, God will exact unfair retribution. Not the ones that simply follow it, but add to the concoction by describing the torment to scare you. It changes few hearts as evidenced by 2000 years worth of it. This results in a mark on the scoreboard of the false messenger, but the one who made the altar call goes home thinking only one thing "I got out of hell today!", and still doesn't learn anything except what the man tells him next week, which is to go and do likewise, send them through the fire, without actually emulating Jesus. Vain means pointless - Is this not the pointless thing that the heathen imagine and rage about in Psalm 2?
The guns are hard to lay down. Because everyone will be against you, just as the bible promised.
You certainly get kicked out of the club, and have all manner of evil spoken against you.
"Wills all" in vain? or omnipotent and capable of executing will?
Here are some references, too much scripture to post: (whole chapters - books for that matter)
Ezekiel 39
Isaiah 48
Ezekiel 20
Peace.
That means both knees will bow. To confess that Jesus Christ is Lord is to accept Him, by our own modern christian definition.
Thereafter, eternal torment follows for any of those?
And, that a great deception will come upon the earth, so that if the days aren't shortened, even the elect would be deceived. What is the deception? The sinless and glorifying concept that everyone is reconciled?
Or the concept that not only were some created with a concept of hope, yet in vain against their will, but that God has iniquity and even takes pleasure in it?
Think of the people that actually thrive on the idea of their enemies burning in hell forever.
The ones who smack the bible upon the pulpit and tell you that if you don't simply say uncle, God will exact unfair retribution. Not the ones that simply follow it, but add to the concoction by describing the torment to scare you. It changes few hearts as evidenced by 2000 years worth of it. This results in a mark on the scoreboard of the false messenger, but the one who made the altar call goes home thinking only one thing "I got out of hell today!", and still doesn't learn anything except what the man tells him next week, which is to go and do likewise, send them through the fire, without actually emulating Jesus. Vain means pointless - Is this not the pointless thing that the heathen imagine and rage about in Psalm 2?
The guns are hard to lay down. Because everyone will be against you, just as the bible promised.
You certainly get kicked out of the club, and have all manner of evil spoken against you.
"Wills all" in vain? or omnipotent and capable of executing will?
Here are some references, too much scripture to post: (whole chapters - books for that matter)
Ezekiel 39
Isaiah 48
Ezekiel 20
Peace.
T
If being in the lake of fire is temporary, then heaven is temporary also. If a person is saved forever,
then the lost are lost forever. If people can be removed from the lake of fire at some point, then
anyone in heaven can lose their place there also. If there is no lake of fire, then there is no heaven.
If there is no place to save someone "from", then there isn't a place to saved anyone "to."
And if there is no hell and heaven, God doesn't exist and all this debating over it all is a waste of time.
then the lost are lost forever. If people can be removed from the lake of fire at some point, then
anyone in heaven can lose their place there also. If there is no lake of fire, then there is no heaven.
If there is no place to save someone "from", then there isn't a place to saved anyone "to."
And if there is no hell and heaven, God doesn't exist and all this debating over it all is a waste of time.