Is once saved always saved true? Or is it only giving false security?

[Brother_Don]

If one is truly saved, they would see how great our God is. I kinda put God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit on the back burner of my life before. Then i started drifting away, God didn't let me go far. Things happened, that showed me God still cared. God never left me or forsaked me, i was drifting away from Him, but He didn't allow me to get lost. Now today i stick by His side, and don't want to drift from Him.

 

[Cobus]

Ok, I had NO experience with God in me, but if it is as awesome as it was for all those that I read in the Bible, I would NEVER go back an inch! I hate this life of sin on earth, absolutely HATE it! I would LOVE to be as caring and good-willing as Jesus. I would LOVE to be punished for the GOOD in me, not the BAD! I would LOVE to be ONE with God and He with me.

I would LOVE to be like Paul, John, James, and any of the apostles, evangelists, prophets, pastors or teachers, God appoints for HIS CHURCH. I would just love to be a member of the Body of Christ Jesus. I KNOW I will not return. I will NOT be a dog that returns to his vomit. I was stupid all my life, if God makes me wise, I will NEVER prefer stupid again.

May I also have grace Lord, please come share You with me! AMEN!

 

[Stephen63]

2 Thessalonians 2:3 [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Note the statements in The Preacher's Outline and Sermon Bible:
1. The first event that will launch the day of the Lord will be a great falling away of believers from God. The phrase "falling away" is much too weak for what the Greek says. The Greek is forceful: "falling away" means apostasy, revolt, rebellion. The picture is that of multitudes—millions from all over the world—rebelling and revolting against God. As the eminent scholar Leon Morris says: "In the last times there will be an outstanding manifestation of the powers of evil arrayed against God" (The Epistles of Paul to the Thessalonians. "Tyndale New Testament Commentaries," p.126). The point is this: before the day of the Lord—before the terrible judgment of God can come upon the earth, there will be a great apostasy, a tragic turning away from God by millions. Note a most significant point: apostasy is one of the causes for the day of the Lord. The revolt and rebellion against God will be so massive that it will necessitate the return of Christ in judgment. Man and his world will be so evil and sinful and so immoral and unjust—so much in rebellion against God—that Christ has to return and judge the world. Most of the people in the world will have gone so far that they will be beyond ever repenting.
No personal comments needed.

 

[loveme1]

Ok, I had NO experience with God in me, but if it is as awesome as it was for all those that I read in the Bible, I would NEVER go back an inch! I hate this life of sin on earth, absolutely HATE it! I would LOVE to be as caring and good-willing as Jesus. I would LOVE to be punished for the GOOD in me, not the BAD! I would LOVE to be ONE with God and He with me.

I would LOVE to be like Paul, John, James, and any of the apostles, evangelists, prophets, pastors or teachers, God appoints for HIS CHURCH. I would just love to be a member of the Body of Christ Jesus. I KNOW I will not return. I will NOT be a dog that returns to his vomit. I was stupid all my life, if God makes me wise, I will NEVER prefer stupid again.

May I also have grace Lord, please come share You with me! AMEN!

John 3

1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.22After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23And John also was baptizing in AEnon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. 24For John was not yet cast into prison.25Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. 26And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. 27John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. 28Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30He must increase, but I must decrease.31He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Read the Messiah's testimony.

 

[Stephen63]

2 Thessalonians 2:3 [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Note the statements in The Bible Knowledge Commentary:
One major event is the rebellion (lit., “the falling away,” hē apostasia, from whence comes the English word “apostasy”). This is a revolt, a departure, an abandoning of a position once held. This rebellion, which will take place within the professing church, will be a departure from the truth that God has revealed in His Word. True, apostasy has characterized the church almost from its inception, but Paul referred to a specific distinguishable apostasy that will come in the future (cf. 1 Tim. 4:1-3; 2 Tim. 3:1-5; 4:3-4; James 5:1-8; 2 Peter 2; 3:3-6; Jude). He had already told his readers about it (2 Thes. 2:5).
​

No personal comments needed.

 

[homwardbound]

I am curious now. If a person who for years claim others are not saved and bring people to the church talks about a person can never become "un-saved" claims other people who left were not saved did not have faith enough and did not received God's grace, then just like that the person leaves the church. Now every one else says the same thing about him and are doing the same things he did when he was in the church.

I mean, how do you know if you are really saved or not? Many OSAS people have left the church. Then what? They are stil saved?

Please understand I am not being sarcastic at all. This is a genuine question I have because I have seen friends and family who have done this but live too far from me. I can't find the courage to ask them in such a sensitive issue.

No one knows for sure about the other person, yet we all make judgements about others whether or not they are saved but truly it is God the Father of Christ where one in themselves the Holy Ghost that testifies to your Spirit and Father, and your Spirit testifies back. Each person knows within themselves whether they are God's or not, no matter how well anyone seems to perform, Judge not and ye will not be judged. A little food forthought below
Lesson your judgment of others. You never see the whole picture Never
There are 1,000 reasons a person can behave a particular way. You don't know what is going on in their movie that motivates them to act in that way. You never know how you'd behave if you were in their shoes. Today little by little, learn to be more forgiving. Learn to where you can come from a place of help, rather than Judgment

 

[Stephen63]

From The International Bible Standard Encyclopedia:

APOSTASY; APOSTATE

(ἡ ἀποστασία, hē apostasía, "a standing away from"): I.e. a falling away, a withdrawal, a defection. Not found in the English Versions of the Bible, but used twice in the New Testament, in the Greek original, to express abandonment of the faith. Paul was falsely accused of teaching the Jews apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21); he predicted the great apostasy from Christianity, foretold by Jesus (Matthew 24:10-12) which would precede "the day of the Lord" (2 Thes. 2:2). Apostasy, not in name but in fact, meets scathing rebuke in the Epistle of Jude, e.g. the apostasy of angels (Jude 1:6). Foretold, with warnings, as sure to abound in the latter days (1 Tim. 4:1-3; 2 Thes. 2:3; 2 Peter 3:17). Causes of: persecution (Matthew 24:9-10); false teachers (Matthew 24:11); temptation (Luke 8:13); worldliness (2 Tim. 4:4); defective knowledge of Christ (1 John 2:19); moral lapse (Hebrews 6:4-6); forsaking worship and spiritual living (Hebrews 10:25-31); unbelief (Hebrews 3:12). Biblical examples: Saul (1 Samuel 15:11); Amaziah (2 Chron. 25:14, 27); many disciples (John 6:66); Hymeneus and Alexander (1 Tim. 1:19-20); Demas (2 Tim. 4:10). For further illustration see Deut. 13:13; Zeph. 1:4-6; Galatians 5:4; 2 Peter 2:20-21.

No personal comment needed.

 

[homwardbound]

Peter denied Christ three times. Is he an antichrist?

No, even though his old flesh kept tripping him up until he came to the point of understanding the differance between flesh and Spirit of God living in him, thus the old flesh had less and less control over him as he grew in understanding
Wow! great point, if one believes they are eternally secure as long as that belief is to know God. If it is to know God Then God's Spirit the Holy Spirit will testify to your Spirit and it will not matter the judgement of others for you know in yourself that God has accepted you in the beloved

 

[Stephen63]

Galatians 1:8-9 [SUP]Nas [/SUP]But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! [SUP]9 [/SUP]As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

I believe statements for/against OSAS speak directly to the plan of salvation. Please make sure your statements are correct, for your own soul's sake.

 

[homwardbound]

So if someone gets divorced it means they never loved their other half?

It is because of the flesh wanting our own ways a battle for control

 

[Stephen63]

It would seem that incorrect teaching concerning the gospel would make someone accursed. That would prove them as apostates. From what I have seen as a whole in some of these threads, there must indeed be an apostasy of the church even as we speak. This in itself defeats OSAS theology. We have all the false teachers' witness to this. Thank you for your help in establishing this truth.

 

[homwardbound]

Peter always loved his Lord and never forsook him. That was an instinctive reaction and he regretted it.

Again that was flesh and flesh is the problem

 

[homwardbound]

If we are to talk Gramps, then lets start with the scriptures i mentioned, please stick with what ic said, i never said works save, but theyre necessary confirmation that youre a true convert.

Yes they are but not of the flesh
I see works as a by-product of Faith in Christ, like an apple tree the branch on the tree has an apple hanging off of it. Now did that branch produce that apple, or can it only bear it? And are we all nothing but branches? In order for that apple to be hanging on that branch what does the branch have to do,yes abide in the tree? So for works to be produced in and through the abider (believer) to bear fruit we are to have faith in Christ Jesus, the Father of Christ and the coupler the Holy Ghost that came to live in you the first day of belief to teach you the truth the truth that sets one free

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen

The problem to me seems to be in understanding the new covenant. God has softened our hearts, we want to obey.
The moment you become a Christian you are convicted of your sin/wrongdoing, this is because the Holy Spirit lives in you, you have been reborn of the Spirit. You feel acutely all of your shortcommings. Your hearts desire is to obey God.

Now think of the person you love the most in this world?
Do you have to spend each and every day striving to obey the following literal commands where they are concerned?

Thou shalt not murder
Thou shalt not bear false witness
Thou shalt not steal etc

Of course you don't, for in your heart you want to please that person, not hurt or destroy them

In our hearts we want to please God, but we have the flesh to contend with
The battle is not flesh against flesh but Spirit against flesh

So we look to Christ for what is our hearts desire and rely on the Spiorit to sanctify us, that is very different (to me) from looking to the law/literal commands/ourselves, which can only make the sincere convert painfully aware/conscious of their sin.(Rom3:20)

It seems to me the old covenant is being constantly preached by many, not the new

Amen. I look at it like this. The more mature in Christ you are. the more sinful you see yourself. The more humble you become. and the less judgmental you will be. If you see how depraved you are in sin, how are you going to judge others as not being saved because they sin.

At the same time. it helps you be more of a brother. as you help others who are struggling in sin, knowing your own struggles. You thus help each other. and not in a judgmental attitude.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It would seem that incorrect teaching concerning the gospel would make someone accursed. That would prove them as apostates. From what I have seen as a whole in some of these threads, there must indeed be an apostasy of the church even as we speak. This in itself defeats OSAS theology. We have all the false teachers' witness to this. Thank you for your help in establishing this truth.

If OSAS is false. then we are under law not under grace..


The apostates you spoke of in the end were not saved individuals turning from God, it is the churches themselves. The light of the new believers in Christ growing strong fades, as the lack of new believers due to the signs of the times forces the true church to fade away.

 

[homwardbound]

So, how much can one sin and still be considered a Christian?

From God's vantage point tihs would depend on the motive ofthe one that claims belief in him. Threrfore a true believer in himself God will cause for him to stand from wahtever sin he is or was doing. So it is between God and that person yet I tell you truth GOD is Faithful and will carryon the goodwork God began in the one the from first they believed
Lets look at the apple tree again. When an apple is produced by the tree in and through the branch,it is green right not mature? but is it a perfect apple? Yes just not mature and by abiding in the tree it becomes mature,the same is God in you. So where sin abounds grace abounds much more but that does notmean that we go on sinning God forbid!!!!

 

[tribesman]

If you think of "eternal security" as something that a man does, usually once in his life, like confessing that Jesus is Lord in front of some preacher or going up to an "altar call" or reaching his hand up in the air during a call to "receive Jesus", and then yet never had any godly sorrow of sin, no fruit meet for repentance or any sign of taking the words of Jesus seriously in his own life or even denying Christ at a later point, then you'd be off base. Think of it as God's work in preserving His possession, His children, something that will last beyond time and earth.

 

[homwardbound]

I am sure all would agree with the above emboldened.
But I become exasperated as to the huge amount of focus that is placed on focusing on, and striving to obey all of the literal commands of scripture. Can I ask you? What is your understanding of the following?

This is the covenant I will make with them after this time declares the Lord
I will put my laws in their hearts and write them on their minds
Then he adds
Their sinss and lawless deeds I will remember no more

This is where one comes to terms with God either one responds to God the initiator accepts this as truth, and is so thankful knowing they deserve death and want to know God personally that God reveals himself to that person or persons.
Or a person can be deceived and take advantage of this not caring as the Corinthians had done and iswhy Paul wrote 1 Cor. to them
Or a person can say in response now watch what I do for you God, and end up in a mess for they are still working in their flesh trying to produce fruit, and we all are only the branches, we cannot produce any fruit whatsoever, we can only bear it

 

[homwardbound]

Amen

The problem to me seems to be in understanding the new covenant. God has softened our hearts, we want to obey.
The moment you become a Christian you are convicted of your sin/wrongdoing, this is because the Holy Spirit lives in you, you have been reborn of the Spirit. You feel acutely all of your shortcommings. Your hearts desire is to obey God.

Now think of the person you love the most in this world?
Do you have to spend each and every day striving to obey the following literal commands where they are concerned?

Thou shalt not murder
Thou shalt not bear false witness
Thou shalt not steal etc

Of course you don't, for in your heart you want to please that person, not hurt or destroy them

In our hearts we want to please God, but we have the flesh to contend with
The battle is not flesh against flesh but Spirit against flesh

So we look to Christ for what is our hearts desire and rely on the Spiorit to sanctify us, that is very different (to me) from looking to the law/literal commands/ourselves, which can only make the sincere convert painfully aware/conscious of their sin.(Rom3:20)

It seems to me the old covenant is being constantly preached by many, not the new

AMEN brother for it is in a many a ways and is masquerading as being good when it only leads to death. The Flesh that is

 

[Elin]

While that may be possible for some, only God knows..and I would think saying they left church because they never were of the faith(meaning every single one of those who left,this pertains to them) is a bit of a broad blanket statement. Having said all this..I will appeal that there are scriptures in romans 11:16-22,1 timothy 4:1,Hebrews 10:26-30,hebrews6:4-8,hebrews3:14,2 timothy4:4..are several scriptures that prove that apostasy is possible. My issue with an adherance to what many call here OSAS aka eternal security is that it creates a spiritual sluggard, lazy sunday christians who are more interested in being confessional then actually repenting and changing their lives. Why not go the extreme of OSAS and keep on sinning? I say this because i have met many who adhere to OSAS and do not have any fruit in their lives,and downplay the importance of repentance. Sin is made not a big deal too according to OSAS.

Those are not the fault of the doctrine, but of the teachers.

The remedy is not throwing out a doctrine because it is misrepresented.

The remedy is teaching it correctly.