Do you understand what the fulness of the gentiles means?
Apparently not
Apparently not
What’s your interpretation of the fulness of the Gentiles Abiding?
1Christianwarrior316
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The fulness of the Gentiles will be when the very last Gentile comes to the Lord. Knowing that there are still people today coming to the Lord means the fulness is not complete yet.
What’s your interpretation of the fulness of the Gentiles Abiding?
1Christianwarrior316
What’s your interpretation of the fulness of the Gentiles Abiding?
1Christianwarrior316
A
Who told you the fullness of the gentiles meant all the number of the gentiles that would be saved
through the church period?
Thats your assumption but thats not what fullness means. So like i said learn what "fullness" means.
Your slumber text doesnt not apply today.
You dont understand what sovereign(judicial) blindness is either. That goes on with all who are in unbelief.
ref: 2 thess 2.
So you cramming wrong texts togather with bad understanding and what kind of understanding do
you expect to come out of that?
Oh i see you in other threads yacking about credibility. You sure dont have much...at least with the bible.
Go back to romans...they will be grafted back in when they believe. No other way. To say there is is a heresy. k?
The Old Covenant is done finished. Read Hebrews with your idea theres another way for them.
through the church period?
Thats your assumption but thats not what fullness means. So like i said learn what "fullness" means.
Your slumber text doesnt not apply today.
You dont understand what sovereign(judicial) blindness is either. That goes on with all who are in unbelief.
ref: 2 thess 2.
So you cramming wrong texts togather with bad understanding and what kind of understanding do
you expect to come out of that?
Oh i see you in other threads yacking about credibility. You sure dont have much...at least with the bible.
Go back to romans...they will be grafted back in when they believe. No other way. To say there is is a heresy. k?
The Old Covenant is done finished. Read Hebrews with your idea theres another way for them.
A
While the shift over from the Old Covenant to the new. Gentiles were hated by jews.
Between pentecost and 70ad the gentiles came in. Got established and came to a fullness
of both blessing and position as the church got established. The fullness was not in number
but status. Jew and gentile became twain one new man...no difference.
In the meantime they(Israel) were ticked and jealous and as they believed were grafted back in.
"fullness" doest refer to number. Different word and phrase would have been used had that
been the Holyspirits intent.
The promise of salvation is now to the world. When Paul said all Israel will be saved he
meant all who believe. Remember he already described who a real jew was(believer)Rom 2:28-29
and who a real Israelite was(believer)Rom 9:4-8. The rest have no promise. Unbelievers have no right
to any of the promises. Nothing for just children of the flesh, remember Jesus told them that.
With that way of seeing Romans you dont have 2000 years of people going to hell mostly
for no reason, then everyone going to heaven for no reason. It was a turnover of covenants.
A temp thing. He cut them all off for unbelief so that He could have mercy on all(through the cross)Rom 11:32
If you see what Paul was getting at he is answering a question everyone was asking:
Whats up with Israel we were cut off from our position which they were...is He done with us?
Paul said noway. And explains things. And shows them the spiritual side of the church.
Thayers Definition of fulness
G4138
πλήρωμα
plērōma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is (has been) filled
1a) a ship inasmuch as it is filled (i.e. manned) with sailors, rowers, and soldiers
1b) in the NT, the body of believers, as that which is filled with the presence, power, agency, riches of God and of Christ
2) that which fills or with which a thing is filled
2a) of those things which a ship is filled, freight and merchandise, sailors, oarsmen, soldiers
2b) completeness or fulness of time3) fulness, abundance
4) a fulfilling, keeping
Part of Speech:
noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number:
from G4137
Citing in TDNT:
6:298, 867
Strong's Definition of fulness
G4138
πλήρωμα
plērōma
play'-ro-mah
From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.
Seems pretty clear what fulness means. And I believe it means through the church period, till the last Gentile comes to the Lord.
1Christianwarrior316
G4138
πλήρωμα
plērōma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is (has been) filled
1a) a ship inasmuch as it is filled (i.e. manned) with sailors, rowers, and soldiers
1b) in the NT, the body of believers, as that which is filled with the presence, power, agency, riches of God and of Christ
2) that which fills or with which a thing is filled
2a) of those things which a ship is filled, freight and merchandise, sailors, oarsmen, soldiers
2b) completeness or fulness of time3) fulness, abundance
4) a fulfilling, keeping
Part of Speech:
noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number:
from G4137
Citing in TDNT:
6:298, 867
Strong's Definition of fulness
G4138
πλήρωμα
plērōma
play'-ro-mah
From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.
Seems pretty clear what fulness means. And I believe it means through the church period, till the last Gentile comes to the Lord.
1Christianwarrior316
D
G4138
πλήρωμα
plērōma
play'-ro-mah
From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.
There are still Gentiles coming to the Lord daily so the completion or fulness of the Gentiles has not occurred.
Let’s not try comparing apples to oranges it just doesn’t work.
2Th speaks of those given a spirit of delusion, Romans talks about those given a spirit of slumber. The spirit of delusion is not the spirit of slumber. If Paul meant the same spirit why give it a different name?
Then use Scripture to prove the view espoused to be in error.
In your unproven opinion maybe my views on the bible aren't deemed credible, but until you prove your vew correct it s nothing more then an irrelevant unproven opinion.On the other hand when one misrepresents (i.E. Lis) about what soeone else is saying they have already proven their own lack of credibility. So do you believe that those who are willing to misrepresent(I.E. LIE about) what others are saying are credible?
The only way to see the kingdom of God is to be born again, the branches broken out come to know Christ through the New Testament or perish. But for the sovereignly blinded Jew that is not allowed to see the truth of the first advent of Christ and the gospel, they can only come to know Christ through the Scriptures they are allowed to see, the Old Testament. It is all about which ones God chose to use to keep His everlasting covenant alive. After all if God did not keep some of the Jews under the Old Covenant it would not be an everlasting covenant.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
While it may be ready to vanish and wax away it hasn’t or it would not be an everlasting covenant. For it to be an everlasting covenant there must be a remanant of the Jews still observing it. Those Jews are the enemies of the gospel that are elect.
I see you chose not to address the questions I asked. Shall I assume from your silence you have no Scripturally sound explanation of how one can be an enemy of the gospel and elect at the same time?
πλήρωμα
plērōma
play'-ro-mah
From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.
There are still Gentiles coming to the Lord daily so the completion or fulness of the Gentiles has not occurred.
Let’s not try comparing apples to oranges it just doesn’t work.
2Th speaks of those given a spirit of delusion, Romans talks about those given a spirit of slumber. The spirit of delusion is not the spirit of slumber. If Paul meant the same spirit why give it a different name?
Then use Scripture to prove the view espoused to be in error.
In your unproven opinion maybe my views on the bible aren't deemed credible, but until you prove your vew correct it s nothing more then an irrelevant unproven opinion.On the other hand when one misrepresents (i.E. Lis) about what soeone else is saying they have already proven their own lack of credibility. So do you believe that those who are willing to misrepresent(I.E. LIE about) what others are saying are credible?
The only way to see the kingdom of God is to be born again, the branches broken out come to know Christ through the New Testament or perish. But for the sovereignly blinded Jew that is not allowed to see the truth of the first advent of Christ and the gospel, they can only come to know Christ through the Scriptures they are allowed to see, the Old Testament. It is all about which ones God chose to use to keep His everlasting covenant alive. After all if God did not keep some of the Jews under the Old Covenant it would not be an everlasting covenant.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
While it may be ready to vanish and wax away it hasn’t or it would not be an everlasting covenant. For it to be an everlasting covenant there must be a remanant of the Jews still observing it. Those Jews are the enemies of the gospel that are elect.
I see you chose not to address the questions I asked. Shall I assume from your silence you have no Scripturally sound explanation of how one can be an enemy of the gospel and elect at the same time?
To understand God’s Word one must first remove our doctrinal understanding from our thinking, have ears to hear, and a heart that understands to see the truth of what God’s Word reveals.
It is because of your man made doctrine that you refuse to understand even what scripture verifies. You and zone have a tendency of placing all the Jews in one basket and condemning them all. There is only one who knows the hearts and minds of man. There is only one who will judge.
In Christ, 1Christianwarrior316
It is because of your man made doctrine that you refuse to understand even what scripture verifies. You and zone have a tendency of placing all the Jews in one basket and condemning them all. There is only one who knows the hearts and minds of man. There is only one who will judge.
In Christ, 1Christianwarrior316
A
Ya im sure you do just like most folks say but look at the difference between plaroma and pleroo
If one wanted to say what you believe they would have used plaroma to give the idea of complete
Pleroo is used to say that a fulness of blessing and status spiritually in the church. which in the light
of what was going on makes sense. as far as how this word is used not talking about a number or a finishing
as your saying which is the other word pleroo
Check out its uses elsewhere in the new testament theres only 13 usages.
If one wanted to say what you believe they would have used plaroma to give the idea of complete
Pleroo is used to say that a fulness of blessing and status spiritually in the church. which in the light
of what was going on makes sense. as far as how this word is used not talking about a number or a finishing
as your saying which is the other word pleroo
Check out its uses elsewhere in the new testament theres only 13 usages.
A
Ya you have the right word but it surely doest mean what your saying it means.
And of coarse gentiles are getting saved just as well as jews are getting saved.
Maybe you missed the point God hardens unbelief Jew or gentile. They can still believe and have their eyes open
I never seen you asked me a question. But the answer to the question i see now is they are not the same.
Unbelieving jews have always been enemies of the cross if they believe they are elect and beloved.
overall context which is chapters long helps with the idea.
And of coarse gentiles are getting saved just as well as jews are getting saved.
Maybe you missed the point God hardens unbelief Jew or gentile. They can still believe and have their eyes open
I never seen you asked me a question. But the answer to the question i see now is they are not the same.
Unbelieving jews have always been enemies of the cross if they believe they are elect and beloved.
overall context which is chapters long helps with the idea.
T
With all due respect, sir, nobody is saying there is a way to be saved apart from the shed blood of Jesus. So please stop implying that doulos believes otherwise, because that is untrue. It just appears that doulos is not allowing man's doctrine to interpret Scripture for him, but instead, is allowing Scripture to determine his doctrine. Nice plan and I like it. <smile>
Speaking for myself, I wish that attitude was seen more around here because I, too, accept the Bible at face value, which incidentally states:
Romans 4:15 "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."
Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day."
It appears you might not believe the above verses as stated, and I suspect you might not believe the following verses as stated either, without putting a doctrinal spin on them anyway . . .
Romans 11: 28-29 "As concerning the gospel, they (the Jews) are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable."
I once asked a theologian what the above verses meant. He said, "I don't know, but they don't mean what they say." Our fellowship ended right then. You see, I'm just a foolish old man who trusts God's Word, regardless of what it may do to the doctrines I learned in Bible College. Hasn't gotten me a lot of friends around here, but it has allowed me to keep the only Friend who matters. <smile>
Speaking for myself, I wish that attitude was seen more around here because I, too, accept the Bible at face value, which incidentally states:
Romans 4:15 "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."
Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day."
It appears you might not believe the above verses as stated, and I suspect you might not believe the following verses as stated either, without putting a doctrinal spin on them anyway . . .
Romans 11: 28-29 "As concerning the gospel, they (the Jews) are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable."
I once asked a theologian what the above verses meant. He said, "I don't know, but they don't mean what they say." Our fellowship ended right then. You see, I'm just a foolish old man who trusts God's Word, regardless of what it may do to the doctrines I learned in Bible College. Hasn't gotten me a lot of friends around here, but it has allowed me to keep the only Friend who matters. <smile>
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Actually the word pleroma is used in the verse and in my opinion verifies what I believe.
Rom 11:25
For[SUP]1063 I would2309 not,3756 brethren,80 that ye5209 should be ignorant50 of this5124 mystery,3466 lest3363 ye should be5600 wise5429 in3844 your own conceits;1438 that3754 blindness4457 in575 part3313 is happened1096 to Israel,2474 until891, 3757 the3588 fullness4138 of the3588 Gentiles1484 be come in.1525[/SUP]
Thayers Definition of fullness
G4138
πλήρωμα
plērōma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is (has been) filled
1a) a ship inasmuch as it is filled (i.e. manned) with sailors, rowers, and soldiers
1b) in the NT, the body of believers, as that which is filled with the presence, power, agency, riches of God and of Christ
2) that which fills or with which a thing is filled
2a) of those things which a ship is filled, freight and merchandise, sailors, oarsmen, soldiers
2b) completeness or fulness of time3) fulness, abundance
4) a fulfilling, keeping
Part of Speech:
noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number:
from G4137
Citing in TDNT:
6:298, 867
Strong's Definition of fullness
G4138
πλήρωμα
plērōma
play'-ro-mah
From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.
How can the church be filled up if the fullness of the Gentiles has not yet come in.
In Christ, 1Christianwarrior316
Rom 11:25
For[SUP]1063 I would2309 not,3756 brethren,80 that ye5209 should be ignorant50 of this5124 mystery,3466 lest3363 ye should be5600 wise5429 in3844 your own conceits;1438 that3754 blindness4457 in575 part3313 is happened1096 to Israel,2474 until891, 3757 the3588 fullness4138 of the3588 Gentiles1484 be come in.1525[/SUP]
Thayers Definition of fullness
G4138
πλήρωμα
plērōma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is (has been) filled
1a) a ship inasmuch as it is filled (i.e. manned) with sailors, rowers, and soldiers
1b) in the NT, the body of believers, as that which is filled with the presence, power, agency, riches of God and of Christ
2) that which fills or with which a thing is filled
2a) of those things which a ship is filled, freight and merchandise, sailors, oarsmen, soldiers
2b) completeness or fulness of time3) fulness, abundance
4) a fulfilling, keeping
Part of Speech:
noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number:
from G4137
Citing in TDNT:
6:298, 867
Strong's Definition of fullness
G4138
πλήρωμα
plērōma
play'-ro-mah
From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.
How can the church be filled up if the fullness of the Gentiles has not yet come in.
In Christ, 1Christianwarrior316
D
Really weren't you the one that just told 1Christianwarrior316 that the word plemora supports the view that he and I hold concerning the meaning of fulness concrning the term fulness of the Gentiles? Here read your own words allow me to quote you from post 127:
Well then if what you are saying is correct, why did Paul use pleroma instead of plerooo? That Is correct and the word used is:
G4138
πλήρωμα
plērōma
play'-ro-mah
From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.
Had the completeness of the Gentiles comes in during the first century? I don’t think so as you just pointed out the word pleroma supports my view. Not sure you intended to lend support to my view but thanks anyway!
Now back to your post 128
It's a start
Many Jews and Gentiles can have their eyes opened but those who God blinded will not see. Believe as your led.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
As for me I believe there are some Jews to this day that are still blind.
I asked you to provide a Scripturally sound explanation of how a Jew can be elect while being an enemy of the gospel. Once again you have failed to demonstrate how one can be an enemy of the gospel while being elect.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Well then if what you are saying is correct, why did Paul use pleroma instead of plerooo? That Is correct and the word used is:
G4138
πλήρωμα
plērōma
play'-ro-mah
From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.
Had the completeness of the Gentiles comes in during the first century? I don’t think so as you just pointed out the word pleroma supports my view. Not sure you intended to lend support to my view but thanks anyway!
Now back to your post 128
It's a start
Many Jews and Gentiles can have their eyes opened but those who God blinded will not see. Believe as your led.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
As for me I believe there are some Jews to this day that are still blind.
I asked you to provide a Scripturally sound explanation of how a Jew can be elect while being an enemy of the gospel. Once again you have failed to demonstrate how one can be an enemy of the gospel while being elect.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
P
As usual, you do error not knowing the scripture or the powerof God
And I think there are two baskets NOT one, light and darkness, righteousness and unrighteousness, God and the devil, truth and the lies, and unbelief and them that believe.
If God be God then serve him, if Baal be God then serve him.
And all Jews are not in the same basket, some are for the lord Jesus and some are for Baal.
John 3 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemnthe world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name ofthe only begotten Son of God.
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness,and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
And I know you and your mate "doulos" have a tendency to re-wright scripture and teach it as truth but we are on to your nonsenses “we can see you”
And I think there are two baskets NOT one, light and darkness, righteousness and unrighteousness, God and the devil, truth and the lies, and unbelief and them that believe.
If God be God then serve him, if Baal be God then serve him.
And all Jews are not in the same basket, some are for the lord Jesus and some are for Baal.
John 3 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemnthe world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name ofthe only begotten Son of God.
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness,and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
And I know you and your mate "doulos" have a tendency to re-wright scripture and teach it as truth but we are on to your nonsenses “we can see you”
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So you believe that bearing witness to the truth is rewriting scripture. Again it seems you have nothing productive to add to this discussion. Scripture supports the view I hold without any twisting of Scripture. I will not comment any further to your post for you hold the traditions of man over the Word of God.
1Christianwarrior316
1Christianwarrior316
Does your church teach Christian Zionism and dual covenant theology—a separate plan of redemption for Jews and Gentiles?
Is it truly Scriptural?
C.I. Scofield: Father of the Heresy of Christian Zionism: | CatchKevin.com < click
for those who haven't yet "Connected the Dots", but want to, it's really very simple.
but you have to have a mustard-seed size level of guts. and a pea-sized portion of reason.
for those who don't want to connect the dots (because they are thoroughly deluded) they will never consider the fact that they are deluded. they can't. that's how it works.
they left Christianity a long time ago. if they ever were part of it.
they belong to some other religion.
Revelation 18:24
"And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth."
brainwashing works - that's why people use it.
fear is a powerful thing.
the herd is a strong force.
they're welcome to it.
i'll never submit to it.
Is it truly Scriptural?
C.I. Scofield: Father of the Heresy of Christian Zionism: | CatchKevin.com < click
for those who haven't yet "Connected the Dots", but want to, it's really very simple.
but you have to have a mustard-seed size level of guts. and a pea-sized portion of reason.
for those who don't want to connect the dots (because they are thoroughly deluded) they will never consider the fact that they are deluded. they can't. that's how it works.
they left Christianity a long time ago. if they ever were part of it.
they belong to some other religion.
Revelation 18:24
"And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth."
brainwashing works - that's why people use it.
fear is a powerful thing.
the herd is a strong force.
they're welcome to it.
i'll never submit to it.
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The Mishnah is an authoritative codification of Pharisaic law, edited by Judah haNasi around 200 CE. Most of the authorities quoted in the Mishnah lived after the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE; it thus marks the beginning of the transition from Pharisaic to Rabbinic (i.e. modern normative) Judaism.
The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple.
All mainstream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.
Pharisees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
fill ye up yourselves with the measure of them if you want to.
there is Christ Crucified, and nothing else.
except idolatry and treason.
The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple.
All mainstream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.
Pharisees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
fill ye up yourselves with the measure of them if you want to.
there is Christ Crucified, and nothing else.
except idolatry and treason.
D
As you have been shown many times before from Adam on into our future the only method of salvation has been through the sherd blood of Christ. After all, we all drink from the same Rock and that Rock is Christ.
1Co 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea: And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Your continued refusal to honestly and objectively examine the view being espoused and your willingness to misrepresent (I.E. LIE) and say that we are saying there is another way only serves to demonstrate that you are not capable of providing a fair and honest evaluation of the view being espoused.
No one is asking you to submit to the heretical viiews C.I. Scofield included in his bible's notes. As for me I agree with the two revisionist that were on his revision committee that resigned because they refused to be a part of the heretical futurist teachings he chose to include in his bible’s notes. So it is obvious your implication that we follow the futurist propoganda as included in the Scofield bible is nothing more then another blatant fallcy that you continue to promote. Futurists do not like my views (see peterT’s replies to me if you would like examples)..Now you can either be intellectually honest and start searching for the truth or you can continue to misrepresnt (I.E. LIE) about the view I hold so you can continue demonstrating your prejudice against the Jews. The choice is yours as you are led!
I do agree that fear is a powerful tool and that some can be brainwashed. Sadly your continued refusal to accept what the Scriptures you have been shown say, coupled with your continued use of wikipedia rather then Scripture in an effort to villanize all Jews only demonstrates just how much you have been brainwashed on this matter.
As you are led friend, as you are led!
PS
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
I am still waiting for your Scripturally sound explanation of how one can be elect while being an enemy of the gospel. I guess you haven’t found that article in wikipedia yet, maybe it’s time to turn to the Scriptures instead of wikipedia. I doubt if you will find much truth in wikipedia as anyone can edit there articles.
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