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As you are so insistent Elin, I will answer your question
As you know I am sure, there is no biblical statement that says
'Christ is God Himself.'
Which is probably why the ministers in the Trinitarian churches in Britain do not plainly state from the pulpit
'You must believe Christ is God Himself unto salvation'
However, on the internet you often here something else entirely
I guess some on the internet are wiser then than the ministers in the pulpits
As you know I am sure, there is no biblical statement that says
'Christ is God Himself.'
Which is probably why the ministers in the Trinitarian churches in Britain do not plainly state from the pulpit
'You must believe Christ is God Himself unto salvation'
However, on the internet you often here something else entirely
I guess some on the internet are wiser then than the ministers in the pulpits
Not according to the NT.
Two appearances of Jesus on the day he arose are recorded, one appearnce to two of them on the road to Damascus, and the other when the two had returned to Jerusalem to report the appearance to the others.
Jn 20:19 refers to the second appearance on the day of his resurrection, where Jesus shows them his wounds from the cross.
In the corresponding account in Lk 24:36-43, we learn that Jesus showed them his wounds to identify himself because they did not recognize him.
So Jesus was unrecognized both at the tomb and in the room that evening.
Same body, one body.
Two appearances of Jesus on the day he arose are recorded, one appearnce to two of them on the road to Damascus, and the other when the two had returned to Jerusalem to report the appearance to the others.
Jn 20:19 refers to the second appearance on the day of his resurrection, where Jesus shows them his wounds from the cross.
In the corresponding account in Lk 24:36-43, we learn that Jesus showed them his wounds to identify himself because they did not recognize him.
So Jesus was unrecognized both at the tomb and in the room that evening.
Same body, one body.
No more than you.
So without a plain simple statement,
but based in the meaning of other Scriptural testimony (forthcoming), you believe Jesus is God
(or do you?),
even though Scripture plainly states (not in a Hebraism) there is only one God.
Then why do you demand that others produce a plain simple statement
of what is believed based in the meaning of other Scriptural testimony,
even though Scripture plainly states (in a Hebraism) to the contrary?
Isn't that a double standard?
Or. . .the Scriptures (forthcoming) are wiser than the ministers. . .
Thanks, crossnote,
I couldn't have explained it better myself (no surprise there).
So without a plain simple statement,
but based in the meaning of other Scriptural testimony (forthcoming), you believe Jesus is God
(or do you?),
even though Scripture plainly states (not in a Hebraism) there is only one God.
Then why do you demand that others produce a plain simple statement
of what is believed based in the meaning of other Scriptural testimony,
even though Scripture plainly states (in a Hebraism) to the contrary?
Isn't that a double standard?
Which is probably why the ministers in the Trinitarian churches in Britain do not plainly state from the pulpit
'You must believe Christ is God Himself unto salvation'
However, on the internet you often here something else entirely
I guess some on the internet are wiser then than the ministers in the pulpits
'You must believe Christ is God Himself unto salvation'
However, on the internet you often here something else entirely
I guess some on the internet are wiser then than the ministers in the pulpits
Thanks, crossnote,
I couldn't have explained it better myself (no surprise there).
J
Rev 5:6 KJV - And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
This Lamb is Christ exactly as he was when taken from the cross.
This Lamb is Christ exactly as he was when taken from the cross.
J
These are two different beings. One is Christ. The other is the humanity.
Example:
Humanity!
Jhn 21:4 KJV - But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
Jhn 21:12 KJV - Jesus saith unto them, Come [and] dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.
Then comes Christ.
Jhn 21:13 KJV - Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.
Example:
Humanity!
Jhn 21:4 KJV - But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
Jhn 21:12 KJV - Jesus saith unto them, Come [and] dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.
Then comes Christ.
Jhn 21:13 KJV - Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.
The Son of God became incarnated as the Son of Man to dwell among us.
Philippians 2:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: [SUP]6 [/SUP]Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: [SUP]7 [/SUP]But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: [SUP]8 [/SUP]And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: [SUP]10 [/SUP]That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; [SUP]11 [/SUP]And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
If we look at what God requires of man to be a witness and to judge, then what does that say about our God as a witness and a judge?
John 8:17It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
Deuteronomy 17:6At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
Deuteronomy 19:15One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
Matthew 18:16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
2 Corinthans 13:1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
1 Timothy 5:19Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
Now look at this prophesy of God bearing witness of the Son that was to come.
Isaiah 48:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
Now look at how God had borne witness of Jesus being the Son of God at His water baptism to fulfill that prophesy.
Matthew 3:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? [SUP]15 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: [SUP]17 [/SUP]And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
May you see with His help that what God requires of man to establish a word as a witness and to judge testify of the Triune God, because as He requires of man, so does He do as the Triune God.
He did it to establish a word in creation:
Genesis 1:[SUP]26 [/SUP]And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. [SUP]27 [/SUP]So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
He did it whenever He intervenes in man's affairs in judging them.
Genesis 11:[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. [SUP]8[/SUP]So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
Even Jesus testified of the Triune God in regards to the promise of the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
John 14:[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him....[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
So the Good News because of Jesus Christ is...
Matthew 1:23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
And from the heralding of His birth.... comes to the new reality in Christ for all believers after His ascension to God the Father from which the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost was sent for God to be with us always.
Colossians 1:[SUP]27 [/SUP]To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: [SUP]28 [/SUP]Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
2 Corinthians 13:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
1 Corinthians 6:[SUP]19 [/SUP]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? [SUP]20 [/SUP]For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Romans 8:[SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. [SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: [SUP]17 [/SUP]And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
So for the Triune God to bear witness that we are the children of God, then there has to be at least two Witnesses for us.
1 John 5:[SUP]7 [/SUP]For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Philippians 2:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: [SUP]6 [/SUP]Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: [SUP]7 [/SUP]But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: [SUP]8 [/SUP]And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: [SUP]10 [/SUP]That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; [SUP]11 [/SUP]And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
If we look at what God requires of man to be a witness and to judge, then what does that say about our God as a witness and a judge?
John 8:17It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
Deuteronomy 17:6At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
Deuteronomy 19:15One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
Matthew 18:16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
2 Corinthans 13:1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
1 Timothy 5:19Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
Now look at this prophesy of God bearing witness of the Son that was to come.
Isaiah 48:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
Now look at how God had borne witness of Jesus being the Son of God at His water baptism to fulfill that prophesy.
Matthew 3:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? [SUP]15 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: [SUP]17 [/SUP]And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
May you see with His help that what God requires of man to establish a word as a witness and to judge testify of the Triune God, because as He requires of man, so does He do as the Triune God.
He did it to establish a word in creation:
Genesis 1:[SUP]26 [/SUP]And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. [SUP]27 [/SUP]So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
He did it whenever He intervenes in man's affairs in judging them.
Genesis 11:[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. [SUP]8[/SUP]So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
Even Jesus testified of the Triune God in regards to the promise of the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
John 14:[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him....[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
So the Good News because of Jesus Christ is...
Matthew 1:23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
And from the heralding of His birth.... comes to the new reality in Christ for all believers after His ascension to God the Father from which the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost was sent for God to be with us always.
Colossians 1:[SUP]27 [/SUP]To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: [SUP]28 [/SUP]Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
2 Corinthians 13:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
1 Corinthians 6:[SUP]19 [/SUP]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? [SUP]20 [/SUP]For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Romans 8:[SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. [SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: [SUP]17 [/SUP]And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
So for the Triune God to bear witness that we are the children of God, then there has to be at least two Witnesses for us.
1 John 5:[SUP]7 [/SUP]For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Actually, "annointed" (Heb: mashiach, Gr: chrio) means "to smear, to rub," and does not necssarily mean oil,
it also means with the Holy Spirit (Lk 4:18; Ac 10:38, 4:27; 2Co 1:21).
In the OT, the word is often synonymous with "king."
It refers to "Messiah," the anointed ruler/king who was to come (1Sa 2:10; Dan 9:25-26).
This king, coming from the tribe of Judah, was first prophesied by Jacob (Ge 49:10),
then further anticiapted in the oracles of Balaam (Nu 24:7, 17), and in Dt 17:14-20.
He's called Messiah, not because he is anointed with oil, but because he is the ruler/king anointed by the Holy Spirit (Mt 3:16-17).
If the name Jehovah requires anointing with oil, Jesus was not.
it also means with the Holy Spirit (Lk 4:18; Ac 10:38, 4:27; 2Co 1:21).
In the OT, the word is often synonymous with "king."
It refers to "Messiah," the anointed ruler/king who was to come (1Sa 2:10; Dan 9:25-26).
This king, coming from the tribe of Judah, was first prophesied by Jacob (Ge 49:10),
then further anticiapted in the oracles of Balaam (Nu 24:7, 17), and in Dt 17:14-20.
He's called Messiah, not because he is anointed with oil, but because he is the ruler/king anointed by the Holy Spirit (Mt 3:16-17).
If the name Jehovah requires anointing with oil, Jesus was not.
Likewise, the OT plainly states there is only one God.
And you cannot give me one plain verse of Scriptural that opposes that.
You are employing a double standard here.
Do you have difficulty following this?
Is Jesus God?
When you cease to require of me what you do not require of yourself (a plain verse),
we will be able to go forward.
And you cannot give me one plain verse of Scriptural that opposes that.
You are employing a double standard here.
Do you have difficulty following this?
Is Jesus God?
When you cease to require of me what you do not require of yourself (a plain verse),
we will be able to go forward.
J
The Holy Spirit is the water.
Eph 5:26 KJV - That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Jhn 14:26 KJV - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Jhn 15:26 KJV - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
And it is the Body that was anointed with oil, being the temple of Jehovah.
Eph 5:26 KJV - That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Jhn 14:26 KJV - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Jhn 15:26 KJV - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
And it is the Body that was anointed with oil, being the temple of Jehovah.