-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
If you read my latest coment to Crossfire, I wrote that scripture does not state Christ entered Heaven in the same state/form he was in when he left this earth, so I have no definitive knowledge as to exactly how he entered Heavern. If others have first hand knowledge of this, they are able to share it in this thread.
I stick to what I know according to scripture
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God
I stick to what I know according to scripture
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God
Luke 9
The Transfiguration
28Now about eight days after these sayings he took with him Peter and John and James and went up on the mountain to pray. 29And as he was praying, the appearance of his face was altered, and his clothing became dazzling white. 30And behold, two men were talking with him, Moses and Elijah, 31who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure,b which he was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. 32Now Peter and those who were with him were heavy with sleep, but when they became fully awake they saw his glory and the two men who stood with him. 33And as the men were parting from him, Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is good that we are here. Let us make three tents, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah”—not knowing what he said. 34As he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. 35And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen One;c listen to him!” 36And when the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone. And they kept silent and told no one in those days anything of what they had seen.
and:
Acts 1
The Promise of the Holy Spirit
1In the first book, O Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach, 2 until the day when he was taken up, after he had given commands through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen. 3He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.
4And while stayinga with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me; 5for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized withb the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
The Ascension
6So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” 9And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, 11and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”
~
1In the first book, O Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach, 2 until the day when he was taken up, after he had given commands through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen. 3 He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.
so....did He eat and stuff with them during those 40 days?
ttyl.
Doesn't the Bible state that 'flesh' cannot inherit the Kingdom of God?
Flesh in almost all Paul's writings (and perhaps others) refers to sinfulness.
Sin cannot be in heaven. And cannot be in the Kingdom of God to come (they are not the same place).
When Jesus ascended he was a solid body - but that is not, perhaps, how he ended up entering Heaven to sit at God's right hand. All that we know is that two angels (messengers of God) said Jesus would return in the same way he had ascended.
Surely the most important thing in this thread is that Jesus sits at the right hand of God.
That is neither 'one' or 'equal' - which are basic statements about the trinity aren't they?
Flesh in almost all Paul's writings (and perhaps others) refers to sinfulness.
Sin cannot be in heaven. And cannot be in the Kingdom of God to come (they are not the same place).
When Jesus ascended he was a solid body - but that is not, perhaps, how he ended up entering Heaven to sit at God's right hand. All that we know is that two angels (messengers of God) said Jesus would return in the same way he had ascended.
Surely the most important thing in this thread is that Jesus sits at the right hand of God.
That is neither 'one' or 'equal' - which are basic statements about the trinity aren't they?
ALL of this is immaterial Zone
As Bookreader has just written, Scripture does not state Christ entered Heaven in the form/state he left this earth. I repeat, if anyone has first hand knowledge as to exactly how Christ entered Heaven they are welcome to share it in this thread
What I do know according to scripture is flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God
As Bookreader has just written, Scripture does not state Christ entered Heaven in the form/state he left this earth. I repeat, if anyone has first hand knowledge as to exactly how Christ entered Heaven they are welcome to share it in this thread
What I do know according to scripture is flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God
btw - I've always though the 'transfiguration' to be a vision.
My reasoning is simple.
Without photography or even paintings of people, how did those watching know the two other people were Elijah and Moses? Knowledge like that happens in dreams and visions or, in the Bible, it is explained that God makes people know things.
Here though they saw three figures and know who the other two are instantly. How would an apostle know how to recognise Moses? Robes and a staff? Big beard and grey hair?
It's a vision surely - with the purpose to show that Jesus combines the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah).
My reasoning is simple.
Without photography or even paintings of people, how did those watching know the two other people were Elijah and Moses? Knowledge like that happens in dreams and visions or, in the Bible, it is explained that God makes people know things.
Here though they saw three figures and know who the other two are instantly. How would an apostle know how to recognise Moses? Robes and a staff? Big beard and grey hair?
It's a vision surely - with the purpose to show that Jesus combines the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah).
T
And again, my post from page 7 for those people who asked a question, haven't bothered to read people's replies and then get upset about people supposedly not answering their question:
Flesh and blood (sinful humanity) can't enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Flesh and blood (physical humanity - renewed creations) can enter the Kingdom of God. Jesus was and is 100% God and 100% Man but never fell to sin. He ascended into Heaven in a physical body but was both Spirit and Man and will remain this way forever.
Simple as that.
Flesh and blood (sinful humanity) can't enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Flesh and blood (physical humanity - renewed creations) can enter the Kingdom of God. Jesus was and is 100% God and 100% Man but never fell to sin. He ascended into Heaven in a physical body but was both Spirit and Man and will remain this way forever.
Simple as that.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
We know that the angels are spirit messengers(spirits) Heb1:14
We know that Christ is higher than the angels and reigns now in Heaven and on earth for the Father has put everything under his feet
However, we are to believe that Christ reigns as such in a human body of flesh and blood, while the angels he is over are purely Spirit.
Doesn't sound right to me
But then I'm no theologian or scholar
We know that the angels are spirit messengers(spirits) Heb1:14
We know that Christ is higher than the angels and reigns now in Heaven and on earth for the Father has put everything under his feet
However, we are to believe that Christ reigns as such in a human body of flesh and blood, while the angels he is over are purely Spirit.
Doesn't sound right to me
But then I'm no theologian or scholar
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
We do know that when Jesus was raised, he was "flesh and bone" and that "flesh and bone" was different because he could vanish, he could appear, and his appearance could change. But I do believe that when he ascended into heaven that his "flesh and bone" body was changed to a "spiritual body".
We do know that when Jesus was raised, he was "flesh and bone" and that "flesh and bone" was different because he could vanish, he could appear, and his appearance could change. But I do believe that when he ascended into heaven that his "flesh and bone" body was changed to a "spiritual body".
So once again you cannot respond to the question, despite the fact I have responded to yours. You only seem able to deflect away from it.
I am bewildered you seem unable to even give an opinion as to whether you believe Christ dwells in Heaven now in a body of flesh and blood. What does your above post say in relation to you voicing your personal opinion on a subject?
I am afraid it is simply pure deflection. So according to your logic, if scripture plainly states something, we cannot rely on it as being the truth even if it is not opoposed
As to what you have written
If scripture plainly stated
Christ is not God Himself, and there was none to plainly state he is, we have definitive proof acording to scripture.
Likewise we do have scripture that plainly states flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, but none that states otherwise
However, rather than face this obviouis truth, you are left with having to constantly deflect away from the simple question put to you
It is sad to see, so I guess I will leave you with your evasion, nothing to be gained when this is all you can do.
However, such evasion shows plainly the weakness of your position, and lack of confidence in your convictions(Mark)
I have above reposted the whole of the post you have in part alluded to Elin. It more fully explains what was written
I am bewildered you seem unable to even give an opinion as to whether you believe Christ dwells in Heaven now in a body of flesh and blood. What does your above post say in relation to you voicing your personal opinion on a subject?
I am afraid it is simply pure deflection. So according to your logic, if scripture plainly states something, we cannot rely on it as being the truth even if it is not opoposed
As to what you have written
If scripture plainly stated
Christ is not God Himself, and there was none to plainly state he is, we have definitive proof acording to scripture.
Likewise we do have scripture that plainly states flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, but none that states otherwise
However, rather than face this obviouis truth, you are left with having to constantly deflect away from the simple question put to you
It is sad to see, so I guess I will leave you with your evasion, nothing to be gained when this is all you can do.
However, such evasion shows plainly the weakness of your position, and lack of confidence in your convictions(Mark)
I have above reposted the whole of the post you have in part alluded to Elin. It more fully explains what was written
S
- Bellow is the Nicene Creed. Notice the bold text... Jesus is "of one substance [essence] with the Father." This is how we can try to understand the Trinity. All three, though separate, are ONE IN ESSENCE. It is dangerous, though, when we try to rationalize God. If we cannot comprehend the things God does (Job 37:5), then how can we possibly fully understand Him in this life?
- I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
- And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.
- Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.
- And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.
- And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
Love in Christ,
SoliDeo
Can you please give a simple straightforward exegesis of Mark 2:5-11 which states, [SUP]5 [/SUP]And Jesus seeing their faith *said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” [SUP]6 [/SUP]But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, [SUP]7 [/SUP]“Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?” [SUP]8 [/SUP]Immediately Jesus, aware in His spirit that they were reasoning that way within themselves, *said to them, “Why are you reasoning about these things in your hearts? [SUP]9 [/SUP]Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven’; or to say, ‘Get up, and pick up your pallet and walk’? [SUP]10 [/SUP]But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—He *said to the paralytic, [SUP]11 [/SUP]“I say to you, get up, pick up your pallet and go home.” This passage appears simple and easy to understand. They proclaim only God has the authority to forgive sins and Jesus continues their thoughts. The Son of Man, who was Jesus, forgave sins which is only something God can do. Can you please exegete this text and help us understand what Jesus is saying?