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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Yes it does and you too need to study the word elect.
Romans 9
God’s Sovereign Choice

1I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit— 2that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers,a my kinsmen according to the flesh. 4They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. 5To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! 15For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion,b but on God, who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25As indeed he says in Hosea,

“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”

27And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israelc be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, 28for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” 29And as Isaiah predicted,

“If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring,
we would have been like Sodom
and become like Gomorrah.”

Israel’s Unbelief
30What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; 31but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousnessd did not succeed in reaching that law. 32Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33as it is written,

“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”




what's Paul talking about?

For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers,a my kinsmen according to the flesh.

doesn't he know the Old Testament Wine Skins weren't given the New Wine - SO THEY COULD BE SAVED?

why does he wish he was cut off for their sake?
whose sake?

"For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh."



1 Corinthians 1:24
but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Paul needs a doctrinal update apparently - he says Jews and Greeks were and are and will be called.

what's wrong with Paul?
doesn't he understand the 2000 year blinding?
doesn't he know this is salvation by FLESH?
 
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Therapon

Guest
Romans 11:28 "As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake."
And I tell brother, I am sick of the stupid agrument against scriptural truth. The word of God is truth, if they don't like it, they can take it up with Jesus.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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And I tell brother, I am sick of the stupid agrument against scriptural truth. The word of God is truth, if they don't like it, they can take it up with Jesus.
Romans 11:28 "As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake."

who doesn't know this verse?
who said it isn't the truth?

only problem is you are building some other building < hint: not helpful to jews AT ALL.
but the Rabbis like it....they get to hold on to their captives.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You need to study the word "elect."
You need to study the word Gospel. And you need to study galations 1 where paul is condemning those trying to add the gospel of law to the gospel of Christ. JEWS! There is no toerh gospel according to him, did he lie? oh, and Hebrews? if they will not be saved, how can those who outright reject Christ be saved?

They are our enemies because they are the enemy of the gospel. anyone who follows them will die eternally with them.

Their election NEVER guaranteed their salvation. if it did, every child of abraham Issac and Jacob would be saved according to their bloodline. Romans 9 destroys this theory.

All romans 11 says is that one day, Isreal will repent. THEN they will all be saved. Until then there is only a remnant which is saved.

Your a scary dude, You have unbelieving jews who reject Christ openly going to heaven. How can one go to heaven if they do not believe the one who purchased their salvation. They can't and wont
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Romans 11:28

"As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake."
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

They are your enemy as far as the gospel goes, because they reject it, and following them will lead you to hell with them

They are beloved because of the election. Not saved. your twisting the passage..

They WILL be saved when the repent. which will happen one day, but right now. they are in sin and will die in sin.

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
And I tell brother, I am sick of the stupid agrument against scriptural truth. The word of God is truth, if they don't like it, they can take it up with Jesus.
If you don;t like it, You can take it up with Jesus, He is the one who said the only way to heaven is to believe in him, Trust hi, and anyone who does not is condemned already, because they have not believed in the only name of the son of God. And Jesus told a JEW THIS!
 
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Abiding

Guest
Whats weird is that so many like to use those verses in Hebrews
they dont understand to scare everyone and here or when they do
apply they are not even known.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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Whats weird is that so many like to use those verses in Hebrews
they dont understand to scare everyone and here or when they do
apply they are not even known.
 
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peterT

Guest
And I tell brother, I am sick of the stupid agrument against scriptural truth. .
Are you finding his yoke to hard, that’s because it’s not his yoke?

MATT 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light

PROVERBS 13:15 but the way of transgressors is hard.

. The word of God is truth, if they don't like it, they can take it up with Jesus.
Yes the word of God is truth but sadly you ain’t preaching it
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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Peter...Please keep in mind you are engaged in a discussion with a man who has told others, me in particular, that they are ignorant and need to study the Word. Now I admit, I am very ignorant of all of the Word, but I do really know some, although I have only been reading it 40 years and in four languages. I am aware the only Master of the Word is our Lord, while many components of His glorious Body on earth are gifted to teach certain aspects of it when He knows it is necessary. This I believe, if someone is gifted to teach, the believing hearers will recognize the Good Shepherd's Voice. This makes an ongoing dispute kind of unnecessary I believe, but it does serve a purpose. I thank you and all who have the stamina to continue in the name of Jesus, Yeshua. Keep up the good and difficult work and task...
Are you finding his yoke to hard, that’s because it’s not his yoke?

MATT 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light

PROVERBS 13:15 but the way of transgressors is hard.



Yes the word of God is truth but sadly you ain’t preaching it
 
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Therapon

Guest
Your a scary dude, You have unbelieving jews who reject Christ openly going to heaven. How can one go to heaven if they do not believe the one who purchased their salvation. They can't and wont
Rpmans 4:15 states . . . "for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression."

So the Jew blinded to the New Testament by sovereign God is not guilty for not believing in a Gospel he is sovereignly prevented from seeing.

I do not believe all Jews are going to heaven just because they are Jews in the flesh any more than I believe every Gentile who goes to church is born again. Romans 2:28-29 tells who the saved Jews are:

"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

You do not have a clue about what I believe, so tell you what, go to ellisskolfield.com and free download the Bible prophecy Study Guide on the home page. If you can disprove any of it's major tenets from Scriprure or history, I'll start a new thread on here and openly repent of my heresy. How does that sound? <grin>
 
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Therapon

Guest
Yes the word of God is truth but sadly you ain’t preaching it
Unlikely as it might seem, has it occured to anyone on this thread that their cherished traditions might be wrong? I am 85 years old with weak heart, soon to stand before the Lord for what I teach and have written. Do you think I am not fully aware of the dire penalties for leading Jesus' precious sheep astray?

So let me suggest that you guys get off your traditional high-horses and look with open hearts at the possibility that the Lord might have opened His prophetic word after the Jews founded the new nation of Israel. Because, like it or not, the events of 1948 and 1967 in the Holy Land do indeed give us a new way to look at His beloved word.
 
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Therapon

Guest
[QUOTE=JaumeJ;913786]Peter...Please keep in mind you are engaged in a discussion with a man who has told others, me in particular, that they are ignorant and need to study the Word[/QUOTE]

To my knowledge, I have never in my whole life called anyone ignorant, you included. I apologize for whatever I said that made you believe otherwise. Unlike some by others, I like your posts. <smile>
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Rpmans 4:15 states . . . "for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression."

So the Jew blinded to the New Testament by sovereign God is not guilty for not believing in a Gospel he is sovereignly prevented from seeing.
Where do you get this crap? They are not forced to not believe, if this was true, no jew would be saved, but that is nto the truth, They blinded themselves, because they thought the law saved them.



I do not believe all Jews are going to heaven just because they are Jews in the flesh any more than I believe every Gentile who goes to church is born again. Romans 2:28-29 tells who the saved Jews are:
Rom 2 is speaking of jews trying to be saved by law. He told them immediately before this that if they were going to be saved by circumcision, they must obey the whole law perfectly or their circumcision avails them nothing.

Taking a passage out of context does not support your theory, He is saying those spiritually circumcised will get in. The law will get you nothing. Thus it destroys your point, because they are trying to get in by law. which will never save anyone.


"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

You do not have a clue about what I believe, so tell you what, go to ellisskolfield.com and free download the Bible prophecy Study Guide on the home page. If you can disprove any of it's major tenets from Scriprure or history, I'll start a new thread on here and openly repent of my heresy. How does that sound? <grin>
I know exactly what you believe, that jews who do not believe in Christ will be saved, Well jesus tells them they will not.

John 3, He who DOES NOT BELIEVE IS CONDEMNED ALREADY.

Jesus trumps you!!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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Rpmans 4:15 states . . . "for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression."

So the Jew blinded to the New Testament by sovereign God is not guilty for not believing in a Gospel he is sovereignly prevented from seeing.
LOL! the jews (think they) live by the Law.
so what on earth are you talking about?

the saved Old Testament Wine Skins (you invented) who refuse the New Covenant Wine (you say wasn't given to them) WANT the Law...NOT The New Covenant.

so, in reality, by your own definition in Romans 4....they are STILL in transgression.

I do not believe all Jews are going to heaven just because they are Jews in the flesh any more than I believe every Gentile who goes to church is born again. Romans 2:28-29 tells who the saved Jews are:

"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
uh...ellis:
those are Christians - jew and gentile.
unbelieving jews (or unbelieving anyone else) do NOT have a circumcised heart.
like...??

You do not have a clue about what I believe, so tell you what, go to ellisskolfield.com and free download the Bible prophecy Study Guide on the home page. If you can disprove any of it's major tenets from Scriprure or history, I'll start a new thread on here and openly repent of my heresy. How does that sound? <grin>
i'll do it (again).
when i get around to it.

your 70th week is easy to refute.
s'already been done. but you didn't repent and acknowledge it last time, ellis.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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ellis, i know you think you're being persecuted by the Church for your message.

but if you want to know what being persecuted for the REAL message (for those Old Testament Wine Skins) looks like, read and preach this to them (even though it's unlikely they are even related to the people in this Book) and see what happens:

Acts 7
Stephen’s Speech
1And the high priest said, “Are these things so?” 2And Stephen said:

“Brothers and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran, 3and said to him, ‘Go out from your land and from your kindred and go into the land that I will show you.’ 4Then he went out from the land of the Chaldeans and lived in Haran. And after his father died, God removed him from there into this land in which you are now living. 5Yet he gave him no inheritance in it, not even a foot’s length, but promised to give it to him as a possession and to his offspring after him, though he had no child. 6And God spoke to this effect—that his offspring would be sojourners in a land belonging to others, who would enslave them and afflict them four hundred years. 7‘But I will judge the nation that they serve,’ said God, ‘and after that they shall come out and worship me in this place.’ 8And he gave him the covenant of circumcision. And so Abraham became the father of Isaac, and circumcised him on the eighth day, and Isaac became the father of Jacob, and Jacob of the twelve patriarchs.

9“And the patriarchs, jealous of Joseph, sold him into Egypt; but God was with him 10and rescued him out of all his afflictions and gave him favor and wisdom before Pharaoh, king of Egypt, who made him ruler over Egypt and over all his household. 11Now there came a famine throughout all Egypt and Canaan, and great affliction, and our fathers could find no food. 12But when Jacob heard that there was grain in Egypt, he sent out our fathers on their first visit. 13And on the second visit Joseph made himself known to his brothers, and Joseph’s family became known to Pharaoh. 14And Joseph sent and summoned Jacob his father and all his kindred, seventy-five persons in all. 15And Jacob went down into Egypt, and he died, he and our fathers, 16and they were carried back to Shechem and laid in the tomb that Abraham had bought for a sum of silver from the sons of Hamor in Shechem.

17“But as the time of the promise drew near, which God had granted to Abraham, the people increased and multiplied in Egypt 18until there arose over Egypt another king who did not know Joseph. 19He dealt shrewdly with our race and forced our fathers to expose their infants, so that they would not be kept alive. 20At this time Moses was born; and he was beautiful in God’s sight. And he was brought up for three months in his father’s house, 21and when he was exposed, Pharaoh’s daughter adopted him and brought him up as her own son. 22And Moses was instructed in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and he was mighty in his words and deeds.

23“When he was forty years old, it came into his heart to visit his brothers, the children of Israel. 24And seeing one of them being wronged, he defended the oppressed man and avenged him by striking down the Egyptian. 25He supposed that his brothers would understand that God was giving them salvation by his hand, but they did not understand. 26And on the following day he appeared to them as they were quarreling and tried to reconcile them, saying, ‘Men, you are brothers. Why do you wrong each other?’ 27But the man who was wronging his neighbor thrust him aside, saying, ‘Who made you a ruler and a judge over us? 28Do you want to kill me as you killed the Egyptian yesterday?’ 29At this retort Moses fled and became an exile in the land of Midian, where he became the father of two sons.

30“Now when forty years had passed, an angel appeared to him in the wilderness of Mount Sinai, in a flame of fire in a bush. 31When Moses saw it, he was amazed at the sight, and as he drew near to look, there came the voice of the Lord: 32‘I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob.’ And Moses trembled and did not dare to look. 33Then the Lord said to him, ‘Take off the sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy ground. 34I have surely seen the affliction of my people who are in Egypt, and have heard their groaning, and I have come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send you to Egypt.’

35“This Moses, whom they rejected, saying, ‘Who made you a ruler and a judge?’—this man God sent as both ruler and redeemer by the hand of the angel who appeared to him in the bush. 36This man led them out, performing wonders and signs in Egypt and at the Red Sea and in the wilderness for forty years. 37This is the Moses who said to the Israelites, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers.’ 38This is the one who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the angel who spoke to him at Mount Sinai, and with our fathers. He received living oracles to give to us. 39Our fathers refused to obey him, but thrust him aside, and in their hearts they turned to Egypt, 40saying to Aaron, ‘Make for us gods who will go before us. As for this Moses who led us out from the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.’ 41And they made a calf in those days, and offered a sacrifice to the idol and were rejoicing in the works of their hands. 42But God turned away and gave them over to worship the host of heaven, as it is written in the book of the prophets:

“‘Did you bring to me slain beasts and sacrifices,
during the forty years in the wilderness, O house of Israel?
43 You took up the tent of Moloch
and the star of your god Rephan,
the images that you made to worship;
and I will send you into exile beyond Babylon.’

44“Our fathers had the tent of witness in the wilderness, just as he who spoke to Moses directed him to make it, according to the pattern that he had seen. 45Our fathers in turn brought it in with Joshua when they dispossessed the nations that God drove out before our fathers. So it was until the days of David, 46who found favor in the sight of God and asked to find a dwelling place for the God of Jacob.a 47But it was Solomon who built a house for him. 48Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made by hands, as the prophet says,

49 “‘Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
What kind of house will you build for me, says the Lord,
or what is the place of my rest?
50 Did not my hand make all these things?’

51“You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you. 52Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered, 53you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it.”

The Stoning of Stephen
54Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth at him. 55But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56And he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” 57But they cried out with a loud voice and stopped their ears and rushed togetherb at him. 58Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.




that's what happens when that New Wine gets poured.
those Old Skins just explode.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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The following quote from Romans bears some study, prayer and meditation. I believe it explains in part what is being debated in this thread. I pray in Yeshua's name it will bring peace, amen.Rom 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29


For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30
For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31
Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34
For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
 
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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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If I understand, we are given the privilege to show mercy to all believing Jews who do not yet know Yeshua came as Messiah. Please let me know if this is understood by you as such.
 
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Therapon

Guest
your 70th week is easy to refute.s'already been done. but you didn't repent and acknowledge it last time, ellis.
That is not true. Go to Amazon.com and read every review on all my books. You guys on this thread are the only negative in my life right now.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Your book 'Islam in the End Times' has garnered many favorable reviews and I agree with those favorable reviews for that book as I think they are warranted.

I haven't read the other books on prophecy you've written, however.

Also, the SOZO I am acquainted with is an inner-healing/deliverance ministry. This makes sense as SOZO means salvation but also means making one whole and complete (e.g. spiritually, mentally, and physically) as per Romans 10:9, Matthew 9:22, Luke 8:36, etc.... I never even heard the word in relation to end times prophecy as I see you use it in one of your prophecy books.


That is not true. Go to Amazon.com and read every review on all my books. You guys on this thread are the only negative in my life right now.