Does a porn addict have to forsake porn BEFORE God will forgive them?

[Enow]

It is just rinse and repeat with you. I can answer your questions yet you just ignore the answers and repeat the same questions. You don't love Scripture or truth.

You are not rightly applying scripture when you do that, brother. You are all over the map and opposing yourself and you know it not.

You quote scripture referring to the righteousness of God which is by faith in Jesus Christ: that means believing in He that is just and that He is the justifier of those that believe in Him BUT you add to His words and jump from there to steps of faith and then doing righteousness as a connecting the dot to those steps of faith and pretty soon, that righteousness of God you referred to as scripture says as standing apart from the law is back to being of the righteousness of the law as something believers are to obtained that righteousness by... as you did in post #189.

I decry the saved IN sins message. I am in rebellion to your false theology as all the saints, throughout history, have been in rebellion to the false religious dogmas of men.

Were you perfect when you got saved? You never uncovered a sin or a transgression against God that you felt the need to repent and ask for forgiveness for as well as help to not do that again?

Why else would Jesus command His disciples to teach other believers in how to be His disciples by continuing in His words? How else could Jesus mean about how His disciples will be pruned so that they may bear more fruit to continue in His love and abide in Him?

How can they follow Him unless that foundation is laid in Christ Jesus and thereby having power in living the christina life?

How can we be held accountable to what we sow unless we had been bought with a price and sealed as His as our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit now?

How else can a believer be warned not to defile the temple of God unless they look to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin to run that race to be His disciple to be chosen for the Marriage Supper?

How else can that foundation be laid for any believer to be held acountable for what they build on that foundation unless salvation is a free gift and received simply by believing in Him?

What did Jesus promised here?

John 6:[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

How does that not relate to this promise below?

Matthew 5:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Until you answer these questions, then you will be responding in the same way that you accuse Zone of doing which is rinse and repeat.

Believers still sin, but that does not mean they are allowed to sin nor live in sin.

1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [SUP]2 [/SUP]And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Far from it. It means because they believe in Him and that they are saved, they will be held accountable to God and thus why they should be corrected or rebuked to be going before that throne of grace for help to depart from iniquity wherein sin shall have no more dominion over their lives.

1 John 1:[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. [SUP]5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. [SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: [SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So to be clear, I agree with you about believer needing to trust Jesus as their Good Shepherd to help them as the author and finsiher of our faith to lay aside every weight & sin to run that race to be that vessel unto honour in His House toattend the Marriage Supper, BUT I do not agree with you in how you twist the righteousness of God by faith in Jesus Christ which is standing apart from the righteousness of the law as a work of faith by obtaining that righteousness by keeping the law.

Romans 3:[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [SUP]22 [/SUP]Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Did you read that brother? That is not an endorsement to sin to your heart content. That is testifying how we are saved and made as His.

Romans 3:[SUP]26 [/SUP]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

That is why christianity is not a religion, but a reconciled relationship with God to be had by faith in Jesus Christ, trusting Him that you are saved and upon that foundation, trusting Him as yoru Good Shepherd to help you to follow Him by continuing in His words as covered by the New Covenant and not the Old Covenant which has waxed away. That means the keeping of the sabbath day is no longer "lord" over us and not part of the New Covenant at all. Loving one another is by His grace & by His help.

 

[Grandpa]

My notes in red.

Those who proclaim to be made pure and claim to have been redeemed from iniquity should be leading people to Christ. How does one lead people to Christ? This way...

Act_26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Luk_24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Yet in this day and age so many people consider it error to state that a sinner must forsake their sins before forgiveness is granted. The forsaking of rebellion prior to remission is the preaching of repentance for remission of sin. ActAaaaa


Acts 26:16-18
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.



You shouldn't be beating people about with their own failure and then tell them if they don't shape up they burn. You should be a WITNESS for what the Lord Jesus Christ has done in your life. You know, verse 16...

My wife has just informed me that my time is up on the internet... I will have to continue this later...

 

[BarlyGurl]

My wife has just informed me that my time is up on the internet... I will have to continue this later...

 

[Grandpa]

Well what would you do? It wasn't funny. She was serious...

 

[Grandpa]

My notes in red.

These people should know who did the work in making them pure and who redeemed them from iniquity. What a foolish statement. This statement denies this aspect...Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.


Foolish statement?? How come you don't understand?

John 15:4-5
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. [SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Its fine to be told to lay aside all filthiness and naughtiness but then a discussion of HOW it is done should be forthcoming. Otherwise you have fruitless law observance unto death. Don't you see that?

Is a person made pure because they have caused themselves to become sinless??A person is made pure by abiding in Jesus Christ by faith. One CANNOT abide in Jesus Christ UNLESS they YIELD to Him. One CANNOT yield to Him unless they forsake rebellion. Faith and obedience are the same thing. One cannot be faithful and disobedient at the same time. One cannot receive and reject God at the same time. Jesus taught that one CANNOT serve two masters, one is either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. That is what the Bible PLAINLY teaches. Yet many people do not believe the Bible and hold to doctrines where you CAN serve two masters, where you CAN sin and not surely die. Satan is a master theologian who has deceived so many people with this error.

NO. A person is made pure by Jesus Christ. After they have been made pure they then have the ability and desire to abide in Christ, all gifts given by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

A person is not cleansed because they think they departed from all filthiness and naughtiness. That is just the tip of the iceberg in being cleansed. You don't seem to understand what we are up against.

Is a person redeemed from iniquity because they follow the Law perfectly?? This is a classic example of a strawman and is usually an appeal to this particular verse...

Its not a strawman. Its the logical conclusion to all your "you have to, and you must" 's that you are attempting to place on people. Have to's and must's are what the Law does.

A person can't cause themselves to be born again of the spirit. They have to ask. And the asking is how the Lord cleanses us.

Faith isn't a work. Faith becomes stronger and bigger by our asking the Lord and His working in our lives.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


Do we become sons of God because God owes it to us for all the work we have done in forsaking our sin?? God does not owe us anything. It is purely by His grace and mercy that He redeems and forgives anyone. Yet that being so is no way negates the CONDITION of REPENTANCE. You folks CONSTANTLY decry true repentance as somehow a "demand for God to owe us." That is NONSENSE.

Did the Prodigal Son presume on his father restoring him? Well did he? Did the prodigal approach his father and say "look at me, I repented, you owe me." Why do you poeple constantly allude to such nonense.


There certainly was presumption going on in the mind of the prodigal son. He presumed his father would let him work for him as a servant. He figured it would be better than what he had before. But what does this have to do with repentance? The prodigal son didn't repent of his actions or the way he thought.

All the prodigal son did was come to his Father, JUST THE WAY HE WAS, and his Father fully restored him. He didn't fully cleanse himself or follow the Law perfectly. All he did was fall on the Grace and Mercy of His Father. That sounds familiar to me. How come it doesn't to you?

 

[cfultz3]

Just curious Skin, have you got an answer to your question yet

 

[zone]

..............

Re: Does a porn addict have to forsake porn BEFORE God will forgive them?

the OP's cistern:

Standing the Gap Ministry

"My Name is Michael DeSario, I live in Northern Ohio where I am self employed with my wife. I was born in 1949, grew up in Ohio and came to Repentance and Faith in the late seventies.My background had Nothing to do with Christianity, other than I wasn't Catholic....

....We teamed up with another independent ministry and combined our resources to broadcast on many AM and FM stations across the country, as well as Shortwave. It had a very limited effect on anything. The System was King and the LIE reigned supreme. We finally stopped wasting our money and put up a simple web site in the early days of the Web. From that we launched our War against the false Doctrines destroying the Church. First it was 'eternal security' (the rampant Lie, called the Sin Gospel!) We moved on to Imputed Righteousness or the so-called 'Moral' Transfer of Christ's Righteousness and Obedience to anyone who believes. Finally we hit the Pinnacle of all False Doctrines.....'IN BORN' Sin! or the Dual Nature of Man, resulting from the fall of Adam, by which Free Will (to do anything good) was forfeited leaving man to be born in a Wretched State, hating God, without ability to Stop Sinning. THIS as we came to see, was the source of ALL the Corruption in the System. It Necessitated the invention of every Doctrinal Fallacy taught by the Reformers since the 1500's....

Standing the Gap Ministry < click

DeSario claims he has debunked these "doctrines of devils" (his progressive revelation of lost "truths" above is reversed here):

the Pinnacle of all False Doctrines - 'IN BORN' Sin! or the Dual Nature of Man, resulting from the fall of Adam, by which Free Will (to do anything good) was forfeited leaving man to be born in a Wretched State, hating God, without ability to Stop Sinning.

[no original sin; all did not fall in Adam; no corrupted nature or will]

Imputed Righteousness or the so-called 'Moral' Transfer of Christ's Righteousness and Obedience to anyone who believes.

[Christ's Righteousness; Moral Perfection; Perfect Fulfillment of God's Law has nothing to do with the redeemed sinner]

'eternal security' (the rampant Lie, called the Sin Gospel!)

[there is no eternal security for those sealed by the Spirit until the Day of Redemption, the Spirit the Promise and Pledge/Guarantee that what God has purchased in Christ - the sinner - He will take full possession of exactly as He Wills to do ]


those assertions above are exactly what satan would say.

and here he makes clear:

"We teamed up with another independent ministry and combined our resources to broadcast on many AM and FM stations across the country, as well as Shortwave. It had a very limited effect on anything. The System was King and the LIE reigned supreme. We finally stopped wasting our money and put up a simple web site in the early days of the Web. From that we launched our War against the false Doctrines destroying the Church.

- we launched our War
- [and though]"We teamed up with another independent ministry and combined our resources to broadcast on many AM
and FM stations across the country, as well as Shortwave. It had a very limited effect on anything."

he took his rejection and impotence as a schismatic and heterodox-something-or-other (read: heretic) to mean:
"The System was King and the LIE reigned supreme"


his foundation is that since 'all men did not fall in Adam', the teaching that all men did fall in Adam:
"Necessitated the invention of every Doctrinal Fallacy taught by the Reformers since the 1500's"

it is logical, then, in this delusion, to never reach an understanding of The Atonement, which DeSario and his disciples admit they do not understand.

Romans 5:19
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[RickShafer]

Why the arguing?
It is clear what is right.
Now: is God's relationship to His followers dependent on their performance? NO!
Or is it dependent on Jesus' perfect live and obedient death? YES!
Is there a change in the spirit of the disciple? Yes!!!
Does God forgive to the utmost? Yes!!!

Some have a strange fascination with actual relation,...........it's like killing your grandchild for stealing cookies.
A hard and remorseless God that couldn't be any better than them on their best day.
Seams a waste for Jesus, the Lamb to live a perfect life and follow the Father's commands to an obedient death.
Unless your righteousness can match His. - - - I guess He was only so good.
Sanctification? YES!!! - - - - But it is the Lord's doing in the Life of the believer.

I tell you,.....more go to hell by doing "right" than those who rely on His grace - - (because the only people that can rely on His grace are those who know Him....and anyone can follow a few commandments(I know I'll get hell for that) - - - - (See Pharisee!!)

Skinski,.......I have one question for you,.......do actions seal redemption?

 

[cfultz3]

Why the arguing?
It is clear what is right.
Now: is God's relationship to His followers dependent on their performance? NO!
Or is it dependent on Jesus' perfect live and obedient death? YES!

I guess that would be the arugument.

 

[homwardbound]

The whole world was forgiven at the cross before anyone of us was ever born just not all have received this. So from Fathers vantage ;point and us looking back at the cross we are forgiven in advance, but not all are saved for it is by the life that one is saved and reception of the death that we are forgiven back at the cross when we are searching for life knowing we are dead in and of flesh from sin then receive new life and guess what you will foraske sin in growing in grace for God will make sure of it. It will not be you that does this it will be God that does it so there is no room for being proud or boastful

 

[nonicknametouse]

Jesus died on the cross because we can't fix ourselves. We can't wait till we are cleaned up to go to our Lord. He accepts you the way you are and will work with you and heal you in his perfect timing. Ya need to be willing to do what it takes to change your life. What if an alcolic came into a church and wanted to receive the Lord and be healed. Do you think that the pastor or the Lord would say come back when your cleaned up. imagine if the Lord told the Lepers to come back to him when they were healed or the blind etc.

 

[Skinski7]

Jesus died on the cross because we can't fix ourselves. We can't wait till we are cleaned up to go to our Lord. He accepts you the way you are and will work with you and heal you in his perfect timing. Ya need to be willing to do what it takes to change your life. What if an alcolic came into a church and wanted to receive the Lord and be healed. Do you think that the pastor or the Lord would say come back when your cleaned up. imagine if the Lord told the Lepers to come back to him when they were healed or the blind etc.

What does the Bible say about receiving???

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.


Some more Scriptures...

Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Skinski7]

Jesus died on the cross because we can't fix ourselves. We can't wait till we are cleaned up to go to our Lord. He accepts you the way you are and will work with you and heal you in his perfect timing. Ya need to be willing to do what it takes to change your life. What if an alcolic came into a church and wanted to receive the Lord and be healed. Do you think that the pastor or the Lord would say come back when your cleaned up. imagine if the Lord told the Lepers to come back to him when they were healed or the blind etc.

What does the Bible say about alcoholics...

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Does God want a drunkard to perish?

2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Therefore...

2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Which leads to this...

1Pe 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
1Pe 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

A drunk is...

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Yet Jesus can...

Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

The methodology of which is...

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Producing this...

Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Because...

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

A Christian has...

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

The master of a Christian is not the lusts of the flesh for...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

A Christian does this...

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

For...

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Praise God.

 

[mark54]

What does the Bible say about alcoholics...

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Does God want a drunkard to perish?

2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Therefore...

2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Which leads to this...

1Pe 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
1Pe 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

A drunk is...

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Yet Jesus can...

Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

The methodology of which is...

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Producing this...

Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Because...

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

A Christian has...

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

The master of a Christian is not the lusts of the flesh for...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

A Christian does this...

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

For...

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Praise God.

Skinsky
Couldn't you have a break from this subject? Even for a day?

There's Plenty of other subjects you could discuss

OSAS, Predestination, Is Jesus God, The Trinity, Filique, The noahide laws, Is water Baptism neccessary for salvation, the beast with ten horns etc.
Might do you good to have a change for a day or two, then you can come back refreshed to what burdens you the most

 

[Skinski7]

Skinsky
Couldn't you have a break from this subject? Even for a day?

There's Plenty of other subjects you could discuss

OSAS, Predestination, Is Jesus God, The Trinity, Filique, The noahide laws, Is water Baptism neccessary for salvation, the beast with ten horns etc.
Might do you good to have a change for a day or two, then you can come back refreshed to what burdens you the most

OSAS is a symptom of underlying error. It is a branch on a tree with a poisoned root. Cut out the root and OSAS falls like a house of cards.

The Reformed view of Predestination (Augustine's view) is a symptom of the underlying error of Total Depravity which is rooted in Augustine's teachings on "Original Sin." Again, lay the axe to the root and the entire tree collapses.

The Trinity as a doctrine is inconsequential in my mind as it pertains to salvation. My interest is in seeing people being truly redeemed from sin and being reconciled to God. People can be forever learning and NEVER come to a knowledge of the truth.

As far as water baptism is concerned, if one understands what truly being redeemed and reconciled to God is then the debate over water baptism is not an issue. Many of these things fall into place and are very easy to understand when the mind is freed from the modern day doctrinal fallacies which pervade the church system.

As far as prophecy I don't profess myself to understand it sufficiently to be overly assertive. I am willing to discuss it in the right time and place, but again, when many people believe that they are "already saved" and yet still "sin in thought, word and deed everyday and whose hearts a desperately wicked" (by their own admission) being RECONCILED TO GOD is THE ISSUE. Everything else will fall into place after that.

SEEK FIRST righteousness is what the Bible teaches.

Also who says I don't discuss other subjects just because I have not gone into detail about them on the internet, in particular on these forums?

Losing one's soul is a serious matter. It is an urgent matter. A State of Emergency exists in the church system and therefore it is not a time to be playing games.

 

[mark54]

The Trinity as a doctrine is inconsequential in my mind as it pertains to salvation. .

How can a doctrine that you believe pertains to salvation be inconsequential?

 

[Skinski7]

How can a doctrine that you believe pertains to salvation be inconsequential?

The early church did not debate the Trinity. They preached the doctrine of Christ which was a doctrine according to godliness. Thus they preached that one forsakes evil and turns to God. It is through abiding in Jesus Christ (dying with Him and being raised with Him) that one walks in the Spirit. They taught believers to remain steadfast in this walk to the end.

The term Trinity was not coined until Tertullian wrote on the subject.

I don't think one's view on the trinity is a salvation issue. It is an issue that can be examined once one comes to Christ through repentance and faith.

 

[mark54]

The early church did not debate the Trinity. They preached the doctrine of Christ which was a doctrine according to godliness. Thus they preached that one forsakes evil and turns to God. It is through abiding in Jesus Christ (dying with Him and being raised with Him) that one walks in the Spirit. They taught believers to remain steadfast in this walk to the end.

The term Trinity was not coined until Tertullian wrote on the subject.

Well I agree with you that the early church preached the Gospel, not Trinity, and we may agree that the most important thing to preach is the Gospel, though we obviously disagree as to what much of that Gospel is
BTW
Tertullian fell out with the church, and if I remeber correctly his view of Trinity was not that of what finally emerged at Nicea. He had a foot in two different camps, I think, though it was a while ago I read Against Praxeas

 

[homwardbound]

OSAS is a symptom of underlying error. It is a branch on a tree with a poisoned root. Cut out the root and OSAS falls like a house of cards.

The Reformed view of Predestination (Augustine's view) is a symptom of the underlying error of Total Depravity which is rooted in Augustine's teachings on "Original Sin." Again, lay the axe to the root and the entire tree collapses.

The Trinity as a doctrine is inconsequential in my mind as it pertains to salvation. My interest is in seeing people being truly redeemed from sin and being reconciled to God. People can be forever learning and NEVER come to a knowledge of the truth.

As far as water baptism is concerned, if one understands what truly being redeemed and reconciled to God is then the debate over water baptism is not an issue. Many of these things fall into place and are very easy to understand when the mind is freed from the modern day doctrinal fallacies which pervade the church system.

As far as prophecy I don't profess myself to understand it sufficiently to be overly assertive. I am willing to discuss it in the right time and place, but again, when many people believe that they are "already saved" and yet still "sin in thought, word and deed everyday and whose hearts a desperately wicked" (by their own admission) being RECONCILED TO GOD is THE ISSUE. Everything else will fall into place after that.

SEEK FIRST righteousness is what the Bible teaches.

Also who says I don't discuss other subjects just because I have not gone into detail about them on the internet, in particular on these forums?

Losing one's soul is a serious matter. It is an urgent matter. A State of Emergency exists in the church system and therefore it is not a time to be playing games.

Skinski all these things you quote are true and the Spirit manifests this life oin the believer, and the believer sees thier salvation in and of this amd have li98ve and thern from this point on yes to OSAS, this is not true at first for the believer must seek out truth and the scripture you point ouit is true, and in order to accomplish any of what you keep postingcomes from and through Faith in God the Son (Jesus Christ) God the reception the reception of through the Son and then relying on the teacher God The Holy Ghost to show you that you are made perfect from God the Father through God the Son, but this soes not take place until you first agree to die to self not here but back at the cross as the romans did this, thenthey were raised back in the flesh as new flesh in the Spirit of God read it again Romans 6:1-6
Skinski I am dead in the flesh are you? Alive in the Spirit of God are you?. I know that if you do believe that this is true with you already from God the Father's point of view because of his Son Jesus. this is the mystery of the Gospel of Christ laid out in front of you, and as a result of belief in this truth GOD the Father is manifested through the believer and love is is shjed abroad in ones heart the love of God described in 1 Cor 13 and the Law is filled complete, do you get brother? Hoping so.
This is where OSAS IS A FACT JACK, there is no turning back once you know you are dead in the flesh yet you have your flesh which one moves and has thier beiing in the Spirit of God, loving all unconditionally

 

[homwardbound]

OSAS is a symptom of underlying error. It is a branch on a tree with a poisoned root. Cut out the root and OSAS falls like a house of cards.

The Reformed view of Predestination (Augustine's view) is a symptom of the underlying error of Total Depravity which is rooted in Augustine's teachings on "Original Sin." Again, lay the axe to the root and the entire tree collapses.

The Trinity as a doctrine is inconsequential in my mind as it pertains to salvation. My interest is in seeing people being truly redeemed from sin and being reconciled to God. People can be forever learning and NEVER come to a knowledge of the truth.

As far as water baptism is concerned, if one understands what truly being redeemed and reconciled to God is then the debate over water baptism is not an issue. Many of these things fall into place and are very easy to understand when the mind is freed from the modern day doctrinal fallacies which pervade the church system.

As far as prophecy I don't profess myself to understand it sufficiently to be overly assertive. I am willing to discuss it in the right time and place, but again, when many people believe that they are "already saved" and yet still "sin in thought, word and deed everyday and whose hearts a desperately wicked" (by their own admission) being RECONCILED TO GOD is THE ISSUE. Everything else will fall into place after that.

SEEK FIRST righteousness is what the Bible teaches.

Also who says I don't discuss other subjects just because I have not gone into detail about them on the internet, in particular on these forums?

Losing one's soul is a serious matter. It is an urgent matter. A State of Emergency exists in the church system and therefore it is not a time to be playing games.

Another thing to see is OSAS is done once one comes to the full knowledge of grace and are reckoning themselves dead to the flesh and are with out doubt dead to it, and alive to God. Also God says after belief he will carry on the good work he began in the believer to the finish, therefore OSAS is true for God will not forsake the ones that believe and the ones that believe will reckon themselves dead to sin and alive to God as God has said through his Son. No need for the worry for all ones cares are casted on the Lord, no more stress, belief brother is total no doubt involved as is what happened in the begining with Adam and Eve doubt entered and they ate brother. I am dead to to the world and the world is dead to me and this is and has all been done by the operation of God the Father through God the Son, there is no turning back, the proof is the fruit that the believers bear. An orange tree cannot produce anything but oranges as the same for wahtever the tree is. Therefore an evil tree cannot produce good which was the tree of evil that was eaten from and passed to all mankind, then Christ went to cross hung on a tree and was cursed for us and condemned the tree of evil and trapped all sin in the flesh this is why we are to die to the flesh and then by trust in the operation of God to revive us in the newness of life Romans 6 explains this.
You are right we are not to sin any longer God Forbid, and I just explained how this is done
Is this ware trying to say as well? because once a person reaches this point in thier walk they are always saved right?