Can Someone Explain Rev. 12:1-6 to Me?

[Laodicea]

Exactly, except that 1260 prophetic days are actually 1260 years according to Exekiel 4:5-6.

1. The new of Israel was founded in 1948 - 1260 = 688 A.D., the exact year the Muslims began to build the Dome of the Rock on God's holy hill.

2. Meaningless by itself, but the 42 months of Revelation 11:2 are 1278 days and Jerusalem was freed of Gentile control in 1967 -1278 = 688 A.D., again the Dome of the Rock!

3. Also meaningless if it were it not that 1290 days of Daniel 12:11, is 1271 years (when converted into solar years to fit our historic record) and it was exactly 1271 years from the abolition of sacrifices in Daniel's time until 688 A.D., when the Muslims began to construct the Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount!

Now, one or two freakish historic hits I might accept as coincidence, but three exact hits at over 2300 years? Statistically impossible! So the Islamic Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount is the biblical "abomination thaat maketh desolate."

It is good the way you change the Bible to suit your own doctrine. The 1260 days stay 1260 days, 42 months which using 30 days for a month according to the Bible is now 1278 not 1260 as it should be. The 1290 has been changed to 1271. The 2300 years you have not given any time for? According to what you are saying the 2300 begins in 688 would end 2988? That means we have plenty of time before the end? That explains why you never put a time period down for that?

The 1260 days and time times and a half mentioned in:-
Revelation 12:6 KJV
(6) And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Revelation 12:14 KJV
(14) And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

They are the same time period. Why are they mentioned twice in the space of a few verses? Also it has nothing to do with Islam. When reading it it looks like Elijah who fled for 3.5 years into the wilderness and was fed by Ravens. Why does God use that imagery?

 

[zone]

If the Jewish people cannot trust the everlating covenant God made with the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, then God lied to His chosen people and we Christians have no basis for trusting the covenant God made with us.

this sounds familiar. i thought you said you weren't a dispensationalist.

what everlasting covenant is that?
the Land?

let's get specific.
what hasn't HE DONE AND FULFILLED, ellis?

if it isn't done for them, it isn't done for anyone else.

the Covenant He made with us is the SAME one He made with them. Justification By Grace through FAITH - that's the Covenant with Abraham.

those who believed were NOT CUT OFF BRANCHES from the Good Olive Tree - the Lord and His Covenant - Old became New.
those who didn't and don't believe are cut off.

gentiles who believe(d) are GRAFTED IN FROM THEIR OWN SEPARATE WILD TREE - brought over to the Good Tree and grafted in.

there is ONE Tree - One Covenant - One People - One LORD.

 

[zone]

That means we have plenty of time before the end? That explains why you never put a time period down for that?

he predicted the end once already.
that date came and went.

 

[SarahM777]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to zone again.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The majority of the Jewish people do not understand the covenant God made with their people, for if they did they would understand that it was temporary, preparatory, and prophetic of the New Covenant. Only a remnant of Jews have had enough faith to set aside their Rabbinic doctrines and accept the Gospel of Christ, and only a remnant have been saved, exactly as God showed throughout their history would be the case.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

while this is true.

Scripture also states there will come a day when they all repent and seek their messiah, and give up their rabbinic doctrines.

we must not count these prophesies out.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

From an archaeological perspective there isn't any definitive date for when the Dome of the Rock was built or even who built it. Some archaeologists contend that it was in fact originally built as a Jewish place of worship because of the architecture. In point of fact it is not now and has never been used as a mosque. The only mosque on the Temple Mount is the Al Aqsa Mosque, and that is the only place on the Temple Mount where Muslims worship.

So you may be tweaking your numbers to make them fit a basic premise that is faulty to begin with.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

He is doing much more than that. He is saying God will save people who reject his messiah. Not to mention, he is distorting prophesy to get to his false viewpoint.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

First of all, brother, I am a servant of Jesus so I don't "tweak" numbers.

if I had a nickle for every tom dick and harry that said this, I would be rich.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

he predicted the end once already.
that date came and went.

then why are we still here? and why is not all Isreal saved as was prophesied? Why is satan still decieving nations. Why is evil still prevelant in the world. Why are things getting worst. why for the first time in history, has things which Christ himself said woul dhappen. all of a sudden happening, which never happened before? I can go on and on and on. To many whys for me. .

 

[Therapon]

It is good the way you change the Bible to suit your own doctrine. The 1260 days stay 1260 days, 42 months which using 30 days for a month according to the Bible is now 1278 not 1260 as it should be. The 1290 has been changed to 1271. The 2300 years you have not given any time for? According to what you are saying the 2300 begins in 688 would end 2988? That means we have plenty of time before the end? That explains why you never put a time period down for that?

LOL, having trouble believing Ezekiel 4:5-6 are we? And you don't recognize the difference between the Hebrew 360 day prophetic year and the 365.24 day year our history is recorded in, which turns the 1290 days of Daniel 12:11 into 1271 years? And you don't see that it was 2373 years from Daniel's time until the new nation of Israel was established? We come from such different knowledge bases that I don't even know how to answer you, so please go in peace.

 

[zone]

Well, those numbers are impossible to deny! Some theologians have been trying ever since I wrote my first book on the subject bact in 1983, without much success I might add. As a result, Dispensationalism, Preterism and the rest are history! Those numbers absolutely destroy every popular end-time tradition currently in the church!

here's your paper:

http://www.ellisskolfield.com./pdf/19-70th week.pdf < click

it doesn't cut & paste well.
anyone who wants to examine your math should go here.

your thesis is something you got from another man, who decided he had proof in the hebrew that the 70th week was a different kind of week, and therefore could be magically expanding....and not be a period of seven years like each of the other 69 were:

"Daniel’s 70th Week stretches into the past and future from the construction of the Dome in 688AD."

"The Hebrew word for seven used inthis verse, [;Wb]v,shavua,is different**than the ~y [‘buv,*shavuim of the prior 69 weeks (and 69 carrots are not the same as one onion). In like manner, the 70th week is different in kind!"


no ellis, it isn't.

but, every false teacher in the world needs to do this to the 70th week:

"Daniel’s 70th Week stretches into the past and future from the construction of the Dome in 688AD."

 

[Therapon]

if I had a nickle for every tom dick and harry that said this, I would be rich.

Well, this isn't Dick or Harry, this is Ellis Skolfield. So are you saying I'm lying?

 

[Laodicea]

LOL, having trouble believing Ezekiel 4:5-6 are we? And you don't recognize the difference between the Hebrew 360 day prophetic year and the 365.24 day year our history is recorded in, which turns the 1290 days of Daniel 12:11 into 1271 years? And you don't see that it was 2373 years from Daniel's time until the new nation of Israel was established? We come from such different knowledge bases that I don't even know how to answer you, so please go in peace.

The time periods in the Bible are to be interpreted according to the Bible and you even mentioned the Hebrew 360 day prophetic year. Therefore according to the Bible. 1260=1260, 1290=1290 not 1271, 42 months=1260. Where is your start date for the 2300? All you have done is to fit your interpretation into it by twisting the Bible.

 

[Therapon]

he predicted the end once already. that date came and went.

That is untrue! In nothing I have ever written have I predicted the date of the Lord's return. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Therapon]

The time periods in the Bible are to be interpreted according to the Bible and you even mentioned the Hebrew 360 day prophetic year. Therefore according to the Bible. 1260=1260, 1290=1290 not 1271, 42 months=1260. Where is your start date for the 2300? All you have done is to fit your interpretation into it by twisting the Bible.

Well, it's your right to interpret Scripture anyway you like. But it is not your right to accuse an elder brother of "twisting Scripture," because he interprets it differently than you do.

 

[cfultz3]

Mr. Therapon,

I do not know if you missed my post asking if God will be returning His attention to the Jews were said or implied in Revelation?

 

[zone]

Well, this isn't Dick or Harry, this is Ellis Skolfield. So are you saying I'm lying?

you won't repent of your false teaching.
even after it's be shown to be cobbled together by fudging the numbers.
you decide what that means

 

[zone]

Well, it's your right to interpret Scripture anyway you like. But it is not your right to accuse an elder brother of "twisting Scripture," because he interprets it differently than you do.

i'll accuse you of it.
because i've ALREADY DONE ALL THIS WITH YOU.
and you won't repent.

book sales and accolades from rabbis is more important.

later i'll get the work of a theologian who spent a lot of time unraveling your stuff.
you'll just ignore it though....you claim no one has been able to do it...when it's been done several times, and can be done by ANYONE here.

if they took the time to do it.

 

[zone]

That is untrue! In nothing I have ever written have I predicted the date of the Lord's return. You should be ashamed of yourself.

i have the writing of a disciple of yours who claims you told her the date.
later on i'll get all that.
and you can tell me if you know her, or not.
she posted your email exchanges. years ago.
we've already DONE all this ellis.

 

[Pilgrimer]

First of all, brother, I am a servant of Jesus so I don't "tweak" numbers.

It's sister, and your numbers are certainly not the actual numbers given in Scripture.

First, Ezekiel 4 says 390 days and 40 days, each day for a year, which would be 390 years and 40 years. You came up with 1260.

Second, Ezekiel 4 says it would be 390 years and 40 years to the siege and destruction of Jerusalem. That did not occur in 688, nor was there a fort built against Jeusalem, or a mount cast against it, or a camp set against it, or battering rams arrayed against it round about nor an "iron" (Rome) wall set between God's prophet and the city, not was there famine and food and water measured out, nor did anyone eat their bread mixed with cow's dung during the famine so that the people consumed away for their iniquity. None of those many things Ezekiel prophesied in this passage happened in 688 A.D., but every single one of them happened in 70 A.D.

Third, 42 months in Revelation 11 is 1239 days, not .. whatever number it was you claimed.

Secondly, I don't know where you are getting your supposed facts about who and when the Dome of the Rock was built, the doccumentary evidence is voluminous! All agree on who, and on when to within a year or two. It was constructed by Abd el Malik ibn Marwan, the Muslim, between 688 until 691 A.D. Here is one quote that should be easy to find on line . . .

Declaration of the Bishop of Jerusalem

When Khalifah Omar entered Jerusalem in 639AD, he was met at the gates by Bishop Sophronius who ushered him through the city. Seeing the temple mount (then in ruins), Omar declared that he was going to build a memorial to Muhammad on the original site of the temple of God. Sophronius exclaimed in horror. . .

“Verily, this is the Abomination of Desolation as spoken of by Daniel the prophet, and it now stands in the holy place.”

Though Sophronius was an old man of 80 years, Khalifah Omar put him in prison and forced labor, the rigors of which killed him.

Excerpted from Jerry Landay’s, The Dome of the Rock, Newsweek, New York, NY, 1972, p. 18

Somehow, we have managed to forget the truth for which Sophronius gave his life. The Dome of the Rock being the Abomination that maketh Desolate is not new theology. This knowledge has been in the Church for over 1300 years!

If we don't agree on what the truth should be based on we have little chance of reconciling our views. My view is based on two things, first and foremost the Scriptures, the actual words, not some date deciphered from mathematical conversions, and secondarily on history, not newspaper articles from 1972, and certainly not Newsweek.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[zone]

Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

THIS WAS ALL FULFILLED EXACTLY as it was prophesied to happen.

it is ALL about JESUS who Therapon doesn't even mention in half his work.

Israelis (who aren't even israelites) become the focus of this 70th week magic sleight-of-hand...when it was ALL fulfilled already.

like many a dispy teacher, ellis makes the One who confirms the Covenant with many - JESUS - into SATAN.