Can Someone Explain Rev. 12:1-6 to Me?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A

Abiding

Guest
#221
#221
eternally-gratefull said:
World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history. Over 60 million people were killed, which was over 2.5% of the world population

wikepedia



if 2 million died in the 70 ad seige. that would be about 3 % of the people who died in WW2.. makes the "great tribulation such has never been seen before, nor shall ever be seen after" meaningless doesn't it
Click to expand...
He talking to Israel, noone else. Thats the only "world" Hes talking about.
It "was" The greatest tribulation they ever saw. The place was toast
Fits perfectly if you follow the text from chapter 23 and see and hear
with them and not a futurists view from our day....look at the context!!!
 
Last edited:
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#222
#222
zone said:


^ now folks, please deposit all magically-expanding-gap-70th-gap-silliness-week stuff here ^

thanks!

YAY - finally!
Click to expand...

wow.. sometimes you take things to far!! :(
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#224
#224
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

24And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#226
#226
Abiding said:
He talking to Israel, noone else. Thats the only "world" Hes talking about.
It "was" The greatest tribulation they ever saw. The place was toast
Fits perfectly if you follow the text from chapter 23 and see and hear
with them and not a futurists view from our day....look at the context!!!
Click to expand...
I disagree.

1. He said previously nation would rise and against nation and kingdom against kingdom,, - here we have a worldwide view.

2. He said there would be starvation and earthquakes in various places.. again a worldwide view

3. He said you would be hated by ALL nations.. again a worldwide view

4. He said for the sake of the elect. He would put a stop to it, because if he did not,, no flesh would survive.. (now think.. if he is protecting people in the wilderness.. and he says he has to put an end to this tribulation or no flesh would survive.. He is talking about a catachlismic war the likes of which this world has never seen before)'

so sorry my brother, I can not agree. It was not just written to them. He had Matt and Mark put it in writting for everyone, including us, to see.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#227
#227
zone said:
no, the gap theory is false doctrine.
its time to put it away.

way past time.
Click to expand...
well thanks for your opinion.

but it is not a theory

it is seen in dan 2, daniel 7 daniel 9, and many other places.. I already proved it.. but people who do not want to see it will never see it..

Again, if you want to agree to disagree, thats your right.. but to keep on saying what your saying is not very christian like,, not sister like. and other words I will chose not to say!

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#229
#229
Abiding said:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

24And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?
Click to expand...
why not quote it all??

[SUP]3 [/SUP]As He was sitting on [SUP](D)[/SUP]the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of [SUP](E)[/SUP]Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

This would include the destruction of jerusalem.. up until the time of the end,, when the lord will return.. which would mean it is still in effect even today.

 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#230
#230
I haven't heard him say that. Obviously one cannot hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, reject Christ, and never repent dying in that condition and go to heaven. BUT, for people that never heard of Christ but followed their conscience there are different schools of thought on this within Christendom. A number of orthodox Christian theologians have written books asking the following questions and providing some very interesting answers from both the Old and New Testaments:

Why has God allowed other religions? Can they serve any purpose? Can a person who never heard of Christ yet believes in right and seeks it with their conscience believing in God as they understand Him find forgiveness?


eternally-gratefull said:
So him saying people who outright reject Christ will be saved is not in violation of the essentials of faith?

Ok..................................................
Click to expand...
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#231
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#231
Abiding said:
He talking to Israel, noone else. Thats the only "world" Hes talking about.
Click to expand...
Ezekiel 5:5
“Thus says the Lord GOD: This is Jerusalem. I have set her in the center of the nations, with countries all around her.
 
P

Pilgrimer

Guest
#232
#232
eternally-gratefull said:
World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history. Over 60 million people were killed, which was over 2.5% of the world population

wikepedia


if 2 million died in the 70 ad seige. that would be about 3 % of the people who died in WW2.. makes the "great tribulation such has never been seen before, nor shall ever be seen after" meaningless doesn't it

to add to this, it is estimated 4 to 6 million jews were killed by the german army.. they killed 2 - 3 more times the amount that the romans did.
Click to expand...
I have a feeling you guys have hashed out this stuff before so I'm reading between the lines here, but eternally-gratefully, are you assuming that the great tribulation was unlike anything that had ever happened before in terms of the total number of people killed? Because I don't think that was what made the Roman/Jewish war so awful. It was the fact that even though the Roman general Titus offered the Jews terms of peace and even paraded wagon loads of food around the city walls to entice the starving Jews to surrender, it is the only time in recorded history that a people have been so dead set on rebellion that they chose starvation and cannibalizing of their own children over surrender. Certainly there have been incidents of cannibalism in the past, but only in situations where the only alternative was starvation. But never has a people ever proven so stiff-necked that they would wilfully choose starvation and cannibalism over surrender as the Jews did in that Godforsaken war.

That was what made that 7-year war unlike anything that has ever been heard of before, or since.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#233
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#233
eternally-gratefull said:
well thanks for your opinion.

but it is not a theory

it is seen in dan 2, daniel 7 daniel 9, and many other places.. I already proved it.. but people who do not want to see it will never see it..

Again, if you want to agree to disagree, thats your right.. but to keep on saying what your saying is not very christian like,, not sister like. and other words I will chose not to say!
Click to expand...
EG....i was saying the theory needs to be put away.
not people.

you haven't proved anything. you have a theory.
we've had this talk many times.

and you have said many things over the years brother:)
selah.
love you
z
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#234
#234
AgeofKnowledge said:
I haven't heard him say that. Obviously one cannot hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, reject Christ, and never repent dying in that condition and go to heaven. BUT, for people that never heard of Christ but followed their conscience there are different schools of thought on this within Christendom. A number of orthodox Christian theologians have written books asking the following questions and providing some very interesting answers from both the Old and New Testaments:

Why has God allowed other religions? Can they serve any purpose? Can a person who never heard of Christ yet believes in right and seeks it with their conscience believing in God as they understand Him find forgiveness?
Click to expand...
to this I will just answer with this

can man ever be good enough to earn salvation? if the answer is no.. then would it matter if people tried to be good or not?

The penalty of sin is death, not trying to be good. Christ died to redeem us,, so without Christ.. you are lost. no matter who you are

There are different religions because man made them up.. many with the help of satan, to keep people from truth.

God promised to send the HS to convict the whole world of sin righteousness and judgment. If someone does not hear the word it is because the HS did his job, and the person said no.. If anyone would say yes I want to know.. history has proven God has sent people to them and given them the gospel..

as for therepon,.. he said jews are saved, because their heart is right.. you must not be reading his posts.. thus you should not be defending him.. when you evidently do not even know what he is saying
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#235
#235
zone said:
EG....i was saying the theory needs to be put away.
not people.
Click to expand...
No the theory does not need put away, it is not effecting anyones salvation. it never has, it never will.. it is not in itself dangerous (although some have used it in a dangerous way) but people do this to all kinds of doctrines.. it does not make the doctrine in error.

you haven't proved anything. you have a theory.
we've had this talk many times.
Click to expand...
lol.. I can say the same to you. although you think you have proven it.. which is why this argument gets rediculous. You want me to admit you proved it.. and I am wrong.. but you refuse to do the same.. you know what they call this do you not?

And yes.. In my mind, I have proved it. Just like in your mind, you have proven your theory.

the thing is, they are both theories.. when will we find out who is right? when we enter eternity.. not hewre, Not today, not tomorrow..
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#236
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#236


some very cool stuff on these forums lately.
couple new sistahs kickin' it.
imma have a good sleep tonight.
 
A

Anonimous

Guest
#237
#237
Getting ready for bed. In the morning I'll get up...have a cup of coffee...feed the cats....then thank God for being in control of the here and now...and the future...after all He already knows WHAT He will do and WHEN He will do it.
 
A

Anonimous

Guest
#238
#238
zone said:


some very cool stuff on these forums lately.
couple new sistahs kickin' it.
imma have a good sleep tonight.
Click to expand...
This gives me an idea. I think I may just make my way up the church aisle doing this.
 
P

Pilgrimer

Guest
#239
#239
Pilgrimer said:
I have a feeling you guys have hashed out this stuff before so I'm reading between the lines here, but eternally-gratefully, are you assuming that the great tribulation was unlike anything that had ever happened before in terms of the total number of people killed? Because I don't think that was what made the Roman/Jewish war so awful. It was the fact that even though the Roman general Titus offered the Jews terms of peace and even paraded wagon loads of food around the city walls to entice the starving Jews to surrender, it is the only time in recorded history that a people have been so dead set on rebellion that they chose starvation and cannibalizing of their own children over surrender. Certainly there have been incidents of cannibalism in the past, but only in situations where the only alternative was starvation. But never has a people ever proven so stiff-necked that they would wilfully choose starvation and cannibalism over surrender as the Jews did in that Godforsaken war.

That was what made that 7-year war unlike anything that has ever been heard of before, or since.
Click to expand...
P.S. And this was foretold: "And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the Lord thy God hath given thee, in the siege and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee."

"Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps that never gave suck."

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#240
#240
Pilgrimer said:
I have a feeling you guys have hashed out this stuff before so I'm reading between the lines here, but eternally-gratefully, are you assuming that the great tribulation was unlike anything that had ever happened before in terms of the total number of people killed? Because I don't think that was what made the Roman/Jewish war so awful. It was the fact that even though the Roman general Titus offered the Jews terms of peace and even paraded wagon loads of food around the city walls to entice the starving Jews to surrender, it is the only time in recorded history that a people have been so dead set on rebellion that they chose starvation and cannibalizing of their own children over surrender. Certainly there have been incidents of cannibalism in the past, but only in situations where the only alternative was starvation. But never has a people ever proven so stiff-necked that they would wilfully choose starvation and cannibalism over surrender as the Jews did in that Godforsaken war.

That was what made that 7-year war unlike anything that has ever been heard of before, or since.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
Click to expand...
what I think, is we take the OT prophesies,, like Jacobs trouble

We take what Jesus said would happen before.

Nation rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom (did not happen in the time between jesus speach and 70 AD, and rome was the only kingdom in that time period)

Then the natural disasters increasing in ferosity,, hunger increasing, Disease increasing etc etc.

we take what jesus said (they will deliver you up to tribulation)

We take what we are shown in revelations. all the seals being opened, and all the catastrophic events..

the mere fact jesus said if he did not return no flesh (libing thing.. not just human flesh, but no flesh) would survive.

what happened in ww2 made what happened in 70ad look like a school picnic.

what will happen in this 'great tribulation" will make ww2 look like a picnic.

I just can not with a straight face and clear conscience put these events in 70 ad.. sorry

Yes, what happened was horrible.. But jesus predicted it would happen. Even daniel did.. so it would have been no suprise to them..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.