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It goes far far beyond that zone. Consider the case of judge Samuel B. Kent (U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Texas) who ruled that any student mentioning the name of Jesus in a graduation prayer would be sentenced to up to six months in the county jail. His own words taken directly from court papers dated May 5, 1995 are as follows:
"And make no mistake, the court is going to have a United States marshal in attendance at the graduation. If any student offends this court, that student will be summarily arrested and will face up to six months incarceration in the Galveston County Jail for contempt of court. Anyone who thinks I'm kidding about this order... [or] expressing any weakness or lack of resolve in that spirit of compromise would better think again. Anyone who violates these orders, no kidding, is going to wish that he or she had died as a child when this court gets through with it."
The judge's threats at Christians represent the "new tolerance" against Christians because we appeal to an objective and ultimate epistemology that is uncompromising and comes directly from none other than the living creator God.
And God is not pleased with the "new tolerance" nor those imposing it on His children. You want to know what happened to that judge?
On May 11, 2009, Judge Kent was impeached and sentenced to 33 months in prison in a sex abuse case for lying to investigators about sexually abusing two female employees. Judge Kent was the first Federal Judge to be impeached since Walter L. Nixon Jr was impeached in 1989.
But that's what we're dealing with. An entire cultural and legal slide toward Sodom. In fact, Sodom is at the front door.
Now, don't misunderstand. Humanity struggles with God's morality. All of us do. That is not the issue nor what this is about. I'm talking about a plan of the devil to first deceive and then wield people against God's revelation and plan for humanity and those people that refuse to be deceived and refuse to abdicate. You and I, for example.
"And make no mistake, the court is going to have a United States marshal in attendance at the graduation. If any student offends this court, that student will be summarily arrested and will face up to six months incarceration in the Galveston County Jail for contempt of court. Anyone who thinks I'm kidding about this order... [or] expressing any weakness or lack of resolve in that spirit of compromise would better think again. Anyone who violates these orders, no kidding, is going to wish that he or she had died as a child when this court gets through with it."
The judge's threats at Christians represent the "new tolerance" against Christians because we appeal to an objective and ultimate epistemology that is uncompromising and comes directly from none other than the living creator God.
And God is not pleased with the "new tolerance" nor those imposing it on His children. You want to know what happened to that judge?
On May 11, 2009, Judge Kent was impeached and sentenced to 33 months in prison in a sex abuse case for lying to investigators about sexually abusing two female employees. Judge Kent was the first Federal Judge to be impeached since Walter L. Nixon Jr was impeached in 1989.
But that's what we're dealing with. An entire cultural and legal slide toward Sodom. In fact, Sodom is at the front door.
Now, don't misunderstand. Humanity struggles with God's morality. All of us do. That is not the issue nor what this is about. I'm talking about a plan of the devil to first deceive and then wield people against God's revelation and plan for humanity and those people that refuse to be deceived and refuse to abdicate. You and I, for example.
AoK: So that's why, the last time I was in the States, two gay men who parked in front of me in a mall parking lot (you know, front bumper to front bumper) felt the need to do what even normal heterosexual married couples wouldn't do as a public display: make out right in my face (windshield to windshield). And they wouldn't stop -- all the passionate (perverted) french kissing. I was utterly disgusted.
And I should be disgusted. It's natural for me to be disgusted. But apparently they (and Obama) want to change that, just as you said.
(No I don't hate gays, and we even welcome them on our site if they want help. But nonetheless, the sight or even idea of a man making out with a man does bring out a natural reaction of disgust on my part.)
Oh, and I also saw a clip of "Britain's Got Talent" recently, where their host had his boyfriend with him, who felt the need to do the same thing, start kissing him, on camera, for the world to see. Seems that the agenda is everywhere -- and they're actually trying to make you approve of it, accept it, and like it.
And I should be disgusted. It's natural for me to be disgusted. But apparently they (and Obama) want to change that, just as you said.
(No I don't hate gays, and we even welcome them on our site if they want help. But nonetheless, the sight or even idea of a man making out with a man does bring out a natural reaction of disgust on my part.)
Oh, and I also saw a clip of "Britain's Got Talent" recently, where their host had his boyfriend with him, who felt the need to do the same thing, start kissing him, on camera, for the world to see. Seems that the agenda is everywhere -- and they're actually trying to make you approve of it, accept it, and like it.
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Robo, it's this disgust we are not allowed to have.
it's called hate...we're being PC'd and threatened into giving up the individual right as a spirit/soul created by God to respond to Him according to the convictions in us prompted by the very Spirit of God.
if you had said anything to or about those guys, and they felt it MIGHT hurt their feelings, or MIGHT resemble hate, you'd find yourself literally before a Tribunal up here in Kanada.
and we've already been told by the courts, the TRUTH of something is not the issue.
what if your kids were there???
arg....like....those kids' books you posted really provoke a negative reaction in me...i'm sorry, that's the way it is.
how come i don't have a right to be offended by that?
it's called hate...we're being PC'd and threatened into giving up the individual right as a spirit/soul created by God to respond to Him according to the convictions in us prompted by the very Spirit of God.
if you had said anything to or about those guys, and they felt it MIGHT hurt their feelings, or MIGHT resemble hate, you'd find yourself literally before a Tribunal up here in Kanada.
and we've already been told by the courts, the TRUTH of something is not the issue.
what if your kids were there???
arg....like....those kids' books you posted really provoke a negative reaction in me...i'm sorry, that's the way it is.
how come i don't have a right to be offended by that?
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it's the indoc for the kids this is about.
no question. this corruption goes so far into the halls of power, it's beyond just a small group clammering for approval.
remember when the internet first was introduced...what was the first thing any of us heard about it (even before we were online) - it's got a boatload of porn on it!
what does that tell ya?
but Still posted elsewhere some videos by Gary DeMar.
he made some really good points about that being their stuff.
that's all their own junk and they have to live with and accept it.
we don't. no matter how much indoc they throw at me over this and other stuff, they can not make me bow to it.
DeMar really helped remind me how tragic it is for the secularized society, seeing it grow ever more depraved.
this is complete proof that man is thoroughly depraved.
but i do not have to own any of that stuff.
no question. this corruption goes so far into the halls of power, it's beyond just a small group clammering for approval.
remember when the internet first was introduced...what was the first thing any of us heard about it (even before we were online) - it's got a boatload of porn on it!
what does that tell ya?
but Still posted elsewhere some videos by Gary DeMar.
he made some really good points about that being their stuff.
that's all their own junk and they have to live with and accept it.
we don't. no matter how much indoc they throw at me over this and other stuff, they can not make me bow to it.
DeMar really helped remind me how tragic it is for the secularized society, seeing it grow ever more depraved.
this is complete proof that man is thoroughly depraved.
but i do not have to own any of that stuff.
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According to the atheists of New Tolerance, porn is just an educational tool. Satan has deceived their minds and filled their hearts with demons to the point they now act as willing participants in culture wars against God's people and the world's children.
Revelations speaks of the four horsemen of the last judgement: Conquest, War, Famine, and Death... respectively.
They all better keep an eye out for these four. They don't play:
Revelations speaks of the four horsemen of the last judgement: Conquest, War, Famine, and Death... respectively.
They all better keep an eye out for these four. They don't play:
so did i jimjimmers. totally creepy....yet the guy was a judge!
and saw the bit shortly after about the guy being impeached due to perversion.
i guess when they say stuff like that right up front you know they got some serious issues going on.
again, Still vids (Postmil thread up of late) by DeMar covered this:
2 Timothy 3
Godlessness in the Last Days
1But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.
and saw the bit shortly after about the guy being impeached due to perversion.
i guess when they say stuff like that right up front you know they got some serious issues going on.
again, Still vids (Postmil thread up of late) by DeMar covered this:
2 Timothy 3
Godlessness in the Last Days
1But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.
Ok, you have made a good point here. I am not defending gay marriage, or homosexuality at all, but some Christians even look down on birth control and contreception. They say it is a sin and going against God's plan to procreate.
I've always looked a homosexuality being a sin because it does go against God's natural plan for humanity. Now heterosexual couples can prevent pregnancy with condoms and birth control. So... if homosexuality is wrong by the means I have explained then wouldnt birth control be wrong too?
I need to look in to this.
I've always looked a homosexuality being a sin because it does go against God's natural plan for humanity. Now heterosexual couples can prevent pregnancy with condoms and birth control. So... if homosexuality is wrong by the means I have explained then wouldnt birth control be wrong too?
I need to look in to this.
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Genital sexual expression as a right and a necessity for emotional health is a new view which ignores the fact that many who cannot function sexually (such as impotent males) can and do live full and meaningful lives. Unlike food and water and shelter, sexual expression is not a need nor a right. Many people, whatever their sexual inclinations, are deprived of opportunities for full sexual expression (think of Christian heterosexuals who want to be married but cannot find an appropriate spouse) and, while it may not be a desirable situation for them, it is not that they are being wronged.
Homosexuality has found increasing acceptance in our society; however, acceptance does not make something right. Nor does the claim that some MAY have an inborn propensity for homosexuality make it right. Some types of personality are apparently inborn, and we think of these varieties of personality types as equally good, but alcoholism, schizophrenia and a tendency to violence may also be linked to genes, and we look at these as genetic defects. We view them as bad and try to control their expression.
The standard is God's Word. In the Scriptures it is not homosexual temptation that is wrong, but the actual acts themselves. This is an important distinction, for it reminds us that the Scriptures honor people successfully struggling with temptation rather than condemning them for their temptations. The man who has never been tempted to commit adultery is not more virtuous than the man who has successfully resisted repeated significant temptations. The first man is only untested in that area.
Second, we recognize that while homosexual practice does not appear to have been common in Palestine, it was a significant feature of the Greek culture. It is not that Greeks were exclusively homosexual, for in fact the general practice was bisexuality, with wives being necessary for procreation, but the use of prostitutes and boys also being more or less accepted by many though not all as pederasty is recorded as being debated by Greek thinkers.
Third, we notice that the explicit rejection of homosexuality is found mostly in Paul’s letters, for he was the Christian writer most in contact with the Greek world. Romans was probably written from Corinth and 1 Corinthians was, of course, written to Corinth. Paul, living in the Greek world, needing an example of vice to use in his letter, used the vice that he found close at hand, homosexual practice, which included, but was not limited to, pederasty.
In other words, homosexual practice was not a major problem within the church. It was a problem in the Gentile world around the church just like today. The church taught fidelity to one’s wife. For example, look at the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 19. When in Matthew 19:9 Jesus prohibits divorce, the disciples respond in shock that it would be better not to marry than to be stuck forever with a single woman. Rather than softening his statement, Jesus comments that it might be good not to marry and distinguishes those who cannot marry due to sexual dysfunction from those who choose not to marry because of “the kingdom of heaven.” In other words, Jesus gave people only two alternatives: faithful marriage (and he has already made it clear in Mt 5:27–28 what he means by faithfulness) or celibacy. While Jesus does not appear to have been married, Simon Peter was. It would be Paul who would follow the route of celibacy.
Turning to Paul, we find the same alternatives offered. In 1 Corinthians 6:9–20 he rules out “sexual immorality” by which he means sexual intercourse with a person who is not one’s spouse, especially a prostitute. He makes the alternative clear in 1 Corinthians 7:9: if one does not have the gift of celibacy, then one should marry. For the same reason married couples should practice regular sexual intercourse (1 Cor 7:2–5). One can read through the whole of the rest of 1 Corinthians 7 and find only two options: celibacy or faithful marriage. These same two options are offered to the widow and to the never-married, to the old and to the young.
As noted above, in the Greek world as in the world today there were very few who were exclusively homosexual. Most men married out of duty to their family, if for no other reason. The church had only one instruction to such men and women: your wife or husband is to be your exclusive sexual focus. Satisfy one another. There is no option of a homosexual relationship on the side. For the few who were not married the church had two options: remain celibate or marry. Again homosexual sexual intercourse is not an option. By stressing these two positive options (rather than ranting against homosexuality) the early church appears to have had little problem with the practice of homosexuality, despite its being in the world around them.
Does the Bible really condemn homosexuality? The answer is yes, it does. In every place it mentions any homosexual practice it roundly condemns the practice. In no place does it speak positively of homosexuality. Does the Bible dwell on the issue, especially since parts of it were written in a world full of bisexuality? No, it does not. Instead the Bible focuses on its alternative. It encourages sexual expression in the context of a faithful marriage, and it exalts celibacy for those who cannot or choose not to marry. Both are honorable lifestyles. There is no third way.
Homosexuality has found increasing acceptance in our society; however, acceptance does not make something right. Nor does the claim that some MAY have an inborn propensity for homosexuality make it right. Some types of personality are apparently inborn, and we think of these varieties of personality types as equally good, but alcoholism, schizophrenia and a tendency to violence may also be linked to genes, and we look at these as genetic defects. We view them as bad and try to control their expression.
The standard is God's Word. In the Scriptures it is not homosexual temptation that is wrong, but the actual acts themselves. This is an important distinction, for it reminds us that the Scriptures honor people successfully struggling with temptation rather than condemning them for their temptations. The man who has never been tempted to commit adultery is not more virtuous than the man who has successfully resisted repeated significant temptations. The first man is only untested in that area.
Second, we recognize that while homosexual practice does not appear to have been common in Palestine, it was a significant feature of the Greek culture. It is not that Greeks were exclusively homosexual, for in fact the general practice was bisexuality, with wives being necessary for procreation, but the use of prostitutes and boys also being more or less accepted by many though not all as pederasty is recorded as being debated by Greek thinkers.
Third, we notice that the explicit rejection of homosexuality is found mostly in Paul’s letters, for he was the Christian writer most in contact with the Greek world. Romans was probably written from Corinth and 1 Corinthians was, of course, written to Corinth. Paul, living in the Greek world, needing an example of vice to use in his letter, used the vice that he found close at hand, homosexual practice, which included, but was not limited to, pederasty.
In other words, homosexual practice was not a major problem within the church. It was a problem in the Gentile world around the church just like today. The church taught fidelity to one’s wife. For example, look at the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 19. When in Matthew 19:9 Jesus prohibits divorce, the disciples respond in shock that it would be better not to marry than to be stuck forever with a single woman. Rather than softening his statement, Jesus comments that it might be good not to marry and distinguishes those who cannot marry due to sexual dysfunction from those who choose not to marry because of “the kingdom of heaven.” In other words, Jesus gave people only two alternatives: faithful marriage (and he has already made it clear in Mt 5:27–28 what he means by faithfulness) or celibacy. While Jesus does not appear to have been married, Simon Peter was. It would be Paul who would follow the route of celibacy.
Turning to Paul, we find the same alternatives offered. In 1 Corinthians 6:9–20 he rules out “sexual immorality” by which he means sexual intercourse with a person who is not one’s spouse, especially a prostitute. He makes the alternative clear in 1 Corinthians 7:9: if one does not have the gift of celibacy, then one should marry. For the same reason married couples should practice regular sexual intercourse (1 Cor 7:2–5). One can read through the whole of the rest of 1 Corinthians 7 and find only two options: celibacy or faithful marriage. These same two options are offered to the widow and to the never-married, to the old and to the young.
As noted above, in the Greek world as in the world today there were very few who were exclusively homosexual. Most men married out of duty to their family, if for no other reason. The church had only one instruction to such men and women: your wife or husband is to be your exclusive sexual focus. Satisfy one another. There is no option of a homosexual relationship on the side. For the few who were not married the church had two options: remain celibate or marry. Again homosexual sexual intercourse is not an option. By stressing these two positive options (rather than ranting against homosexuality) the early church appears to have had little problem with the practice of homosexuality, despite its being in the world around them.
Does the Bible really condemn homosexuality? The answer is yes, it does. In every place it mentions any homosexual practice it roundly condemns the practice. In no place does it speak positively of homosexuality. Does the Bible dwell on the issue, especially since parts of it were written in a world full of bisexuality? No, it does not. Instead the Bible focuses on its alternative. It encourages sexual expression in the context of a faithful marriage, and it exalts celibacy for those who cannot or choose not to marry. Both are honorable lifestyles. There is no third way.
no Beth....Naut's playin with ya.
if the bad guys would stop messing with Bisphenol A and sterilizing men and women (GMO and who knows what), procreating and multiplying will always go on....why? because God ordained it as the natural order. just like you said.
some ppl can't have kids, and some don't want them - but those who don't want them are generally of these latest generations who are a little more self involved if ya know what i mean.
man and woman have always had kids.
Nauty....knock if off with the PC mind game
if the bad guys would stop messing with Bisphenol A and sterilizing men and women (GMO and who knows what), procreating and multiplying will always go on....why? because God ordained it as the natural order. just like you said.
some ppl can't have kids, and some don't want them - but those who don't want them are generally of these latest generations who are a little more self involved if ya know what i mean.
man and woman have always had kids.
Nauty....knock if off with the PC mind game
no Beth....Naut's playin with ya.
if the bad guys would stop messing with Bisphenol A and sterilizing men and women (GMO and who knows what), procreating and multiplying will always go on....why? because God ordained it as the natural order. just like you said.
some ppl can't have kids, and some don't want them - but those who don't want them are generally of these latest generations who are a little more self involved if ya know what i mean.
man and woman have always had kids.
Nauty....knock if off with the PC mind game
if the bad guys would stop messing with Bisphenol A and sterilizing men and women (GMO and who knows what), procreating and multiplying will always go on....why? because God ordained it as the natural order. just like you said.
some ppl can't have kids, and some don't want them - but those who don't want them are generally of these latest generations who are a little more self involved if ya know what i mean.
man and woman have always had kids.
Nauty....knock if off with the PC mind game
Yet I do agree with you one everything you have said zone. The world today seems to be rather self absorbed and doing things that benefit THEM as a person, and not considering what benefits their spirituality. It's all about wants and desire. Little about God.
well youre right one thing elizabeth i wont argue that the bible does condemn homosexuality. It also condemns plenty of other things that people do daily. Is it right that they do them? no. But its part of the the free will that God gave us that we are able to do those things. The reason I have no issue with gay marriage is that its two consenting adults. If they choose to live that lifestyle even if its against the word of God, well thats their choice. I see no reason for anyone to interfere as long as they dont hurt others. The whole kid thing is debatable. I know plenty of kids who grew up with same sex parents and they are as equally well adjusted and successful as those with hetero parents so i dont the that as an issue currently. The marriage thing I agree also the churches should not have to be involved if they dont want to, but in the secular system these gay couples should at least have the same secular rights as non gay couples.
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For me it all comes down to love the sinner not the sin. I am surrounded by (mostly women) that are 50-65 yr old racist & closed minded. The level of anti-god-like things these ppl discuss on their lunch breaks is more disgusting at times than any conversation I've heard to gay ppl have. These ppl (many of them) claim to be of some sort of christian denomination as well.
Obviously men are supposed to be with women & women are supposed to be with men...to me that's kinda like DUH!!!! - but sometimes I do feel that the christian community is so obsessed with this whole gay marriage thing,as though this is going to be the thing that sends America off the rails as some decadent society...we've been off those rails & over that cliff a long long time ago. America is Sodom & Gomorrah & every other vile place all rolled into one. Should we sit by & accept it? No,of course not! I find I've had a lot more success in talking with any of my gay friends over the years about God & christianity,just by being a good witness to them & loving them. They all know where I stand. They are all blown away as well by the fact that I don't view them as lepers or horrible ppl on their way to hell because of their lifestyle. I joked with one friend & said..."yer' not going to hell 'cause yer' gay,I said yer' going to hell because you've rejected Jesus Christ." LOL Anyways,that's my 2 cents...sorry to ramble.
Obviously men are supposed to be with women & women are supposed to be with men...to me that's kinda like DUH!!!! - but sometimes I do feel that the christian community is so obsessed with this whole gay marriage thing,as though this is going to be the thing that sends America off the rails as some decadent society...we've been off those rails & over that cliff a long long time ago. America is Sodom & Gomorrah & every other vile place all rolled into one. Should we sit by & accept it? No,of course not! I find I've had a lot more success in talking with any of my gay friends over the years about God & christianity,just by being a good witness to them & loving them. They all know where I stand. They are all blown away as well by the fact that I don't view them as lepers or horrible ppl on their way to hell because of their lifestyle. I joked with one friend & said..."yer' not going to hell 'cause yer' gay,I said yer' going to hell because you've rejected Jesus Christ." LOL Anyways,that's my 2 cents...sorry to ramble.
Unfortunately, many people who do not support gay marriage are labeled as homophobic or they hate gays.
I don't hate anyone. I am not homophobic. I don't have a problem being around them. I have relatives who are gay, and I don't sit there and throw a bible at them. It's also really interesting that the people I do know personally who are gay understand and respect my views. They don't get all bent out of shape about how I feel.
I don't hate anyone. I am not homophobic. I don't have a problem being around them. I have relatives who are gay, and I don't sit there and throw a bible at them. It's also really interesting that the people I do know personally who are gay understand and respect my views. They don't get all bent out of shape about how I feel.