What does "limited atonement" mean?
- Thread starter Elin
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C
jimmydiggs
"Whosever will" does not tell you who will. It just says, if you believe... not, who will believe. --So, how does that nullify = anyone who will
Exegesis sometimes is handy.
That, and basic vocabulary. -- Jimmy, a wee-bit sly, don't you think? I am 44 years old and my mentality is not that of a 5 year old. Could we perhaps, move away from this sort of communication?
So, you're just looking to justify what is in your heart? --Ok, apparently not. I do not have time for this....
Talk to me when you grow up.....
"Whosever will" does not tell you who will. It just says, if you believe... not, who will believe. --So, how does that nullify = anyone who will
Exegesis sometimes is handy.
That, and basic vocabulary. -- Jimmy, a wee-bit sly, don't you think? I am 44 years old and my mentality is not that of a 5 year old. Could we perhaps, move away from this sort of communication?
So, you're just looking to justify what is in your heart? --Ok, apparently not. I do not have time for this....
Talk to me when you grow up.....
J
Yes, a person must believe that he exists. That is the only way we can come to him. Why do we come, and why do we believe? Faith comes with regeneration.
When I say: "That is the only way we can come to him." I am not speaking of a John 6:44 "can come". That should be evident. What I am speaking of, is the condition of the one coming. We will not come lest we have faith, and that faith is produced within us by God.
C
This is what I said:
If God saves a person, they will have faith. --If God does not save a person, then they will not have faith? So then, the question remains: why even bother with anything if we are destined then we are destined? What then is the purpose of God's Judgment? Will He then therefore judge Himself for what He has caused to be, seeing that we have to account for the wickedness we have performed?
If God saves a person, they will have faith. --If God does not save a person, then they will not have faith? So then, the question remains: why even bother with anything if we are destined then we are destined? What then is the purpose of God's Judgment? Will He then therefore judge Himself for what He has caused to be, seeing that we have to account for the wickedness we have performed?
J
You have misunderstood what I said, it seems.
"whosever will" says, "if you will, this will be", it does not tell you who will do that. You have a moot point, when using this against a biblical regeneration, and especially any view that respects God's sovereignty.
Does God grand permission to all men to repent and believe, and be saved? Yes. Is it going to happen? No. Not everyone will be born of God.
What sort of communication?
You're the one arguing we don't have to obey. Don't get snooty with me when it backfires and turns into a meritorious salvation.
I am broken pottery, that will be a continual thing. It's called sanctification.
A
I'm sure you have been around the mulberry bush a few times debating this, so I'll just smile n nod. 
Elin asked me here so this actually is the first formal mulberry dealy for me on this subject.
Im losing friends like crazy...so it must be good
Oh you mean the rom 9? yes did my doctorate on that
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see, i'm hearing about God's Love (and He is Love), and how He gave everyone a chance to believe (in eternity past?), but some refused to in spite of His clear offer so they are going into the lake of fire.
what i don't quite get with this, is:
WHY wouldn't the God Who is All Powerful and All Knowing Who knows the ignorance and hardness of men, their foolishness in loving sin more than Him OVER-RIDE all that and make certain they all understood without equivocation, without any doubt whatsoever where they were going for rejecting His clear and open offer? eternal fire?
why wouldn't the God Who is Love some are saying can not be basing His decisons on anything other than His absolute respect for man's free will OVER-RIDE their BAD free will choices?
let's face some reality - i know that IF the people i know who refuse to hear the Gospel REALLY understood what will happen they would absolutely repent!
but....they don't believe. they don't appear to be able to!
i don't know what that means.
what i don't quite get with this, is:
WHY wouldn't the God Who is All Powerful and All Knowing Who knows the ignorance and hardness of men, their foolishness in loving sin more than Him OVER-RIDE all that and make certain they all understood without equivocation, without any doubt whatsoever where they were going for rejecting His clear and open offer? eternal fire?
why wouldn't the God Who is Love some are saying can not be basing His decisons on anything other than His absolute respect for man's free will OVER-RIDE their BAD free will choices?
let's face some reality - i know that IF the people i know who refuse to hear the Gospel REALLY understood what will happen they would absolutely repent!
but....they don't believe. they don't appear to be able to!
i don't know what that means.
A
the suspense .....God cannot stop loving. He can refuse to give His love.
I in a way i quit loving my daughter. Im still am crazy about her but some of its
manifestation had to cease. I hated her sinful deeds and to reward them would
not be possible. Do you understand what im saying?
I pray for her unceasingly.
I in a way i quit loving my daughter. Im still am crazy about her but some of its
manifestation had to cease. I hated her sinful deeds and to reward them would
not be possible. Do you understand what im saying?
I pray for her unceasingly.
I agree. . .
Can't an unregenerate person hear the written word or read the written word and gain faith or as you say receive the gospel and receive faith. After all isn't faith belief and doesn't one hear the word of God and believe. . .
for, Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. How then can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? . . . .Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. Romans 10:13-15a, 17
Can't an unregenerate person hear the written word or read the written word and gain faith or as you say receive the gospel and receive faith. After all isn't faith belief and doesn't one hear the word of God and believe. . .
for, Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. How then can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? . . . .Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. Romans 10:13-15a, 17