What does "limited atonement" mean?
- Thread starter Elin
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jesus, through regeneration, frees those who believe in him from that hostility, insubordination and inability to obey God.
But believers still have the fallen nature, although they have been freed from the power of sin.
And their fallen nature limits their moral power.
For example, does the believer have the moral power to choose to live a completely sinless life?
He does not. But Adam had that power before the fall, and he lost it when he disobeyed God.
So slavery to sin speaks of our fallen nature and the limitations it places on our ability to make all moral choices.
I am having problems with the above Elin. For clearly the emboldened according to what you write refers to the Christian, the person accepted by God. Now if the above is true, the convert must remain a slave to sin, but Paul says this cannot happen:
Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey – whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
The point being, that when Christ and Paul spoke of being slaves to sin, they both said the Christian would be set free of being a slave to sin. As you have said, Christ's context was concerning rebirth into God's family(and therefore a salvation issue) Paul used the term to say if we are slaves to sin it leads to death,(a salvation issue) so with respect I don't see your context of the term, used by Christ or Paul, for your context makes it a non salvation issue, that is my point
But believers still have the fallen nature, although they have been freed from the power of sin.
And their fallen nature limits their moral power.
For example, does the believer have the moral power to choose to live a completely sinless life?
He does not. But Adam had that power before the fall, and he lost it when he disobeyed God.
So slavery to sin speaks of our fallen nature and the limitations it places on our ability to make all moral choices.
I am having problems with the above Elin. For clearly the emboldened according to what you write refers to the Christian, the person accepted by God. Now if the above is true, the convert must remain a slave to sin, but Paul says this cannot happen:
Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey – whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
The point being, that when Christ and Paul spoke of being slaves to sin, they both said the Christian would be set free of being a slave to sin. As you have said, Christ's context was concerning rebirth into God's family(and therefore a salvation issue) Paul used the term to say if we are slaves to sin it leads to death,(a salvation issue) so with respect I don't see your context of the term, used by Christ or Paul, for your context makes it a non salvation issue, that is my point
C'mon E.G.; you know better than that, don't you?
Satan plays peoples, ethnicities, and creeds off against each other like a pool room shark knocks balls into corner pockets.
His specialty is playing one race against another. Infact that is what he is doing now in the middle east.
It was a Rothschild that bought the land that was seeded to become the "modern day Israel" in 1917 .
They called it the Balfour declaration.
Call it fate,.....but most living there are not sephardic(mideastern) but ashkenazi(northern european).
So all the promises of God are relavent only to some who might be of the tribe of Judah? What of the other 12? - (and there are 12 others) - Joseph had two.
Satan plays peoples, ethnicities, and creeds off against each other like a pool room shark knocks balls into corner pockets.
His specialty is playing one race against another. Infact that is what he is doing now in the middle east.
It was a Rothschild that bought the land that was seeded to become the "modern day Israel" in 1917 .
They called it the Balfour declaration.
Call it fate,.....but most living there are not sephardic(mideastern) but ashkenazi(northern european).
So all the promises of God are relavent only to some who might be of the tribe of Judah? What of the other 12? - (and there are 12 others) - Joseph had two.
abiding: i don't know what you are saying, or who you are talking to, so i'll have to post this again here:
Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull
they like to live on symbols
Moses held the serpent up high, and said if you look at it, you will live, do not you will die
Many died.. why? if it was so easy that all we had to do is look.. Who forced them to not look at the serpant? better yet, who forced them to look at it?
this is called faith..
Originally Posted by zone
where were all the gentiles getting saved in the surrounding nations?
were they there looking at the serpent also?
could you clarify?
ty dear.
Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull
they like to live on symbols
Moses held the serpent up high, and said if you look at it, you will live, do not you will die
Many died.. why? if it was so easy that all we had to do is look.. Who forced them to not look at the serpant? better yet, who forced them to look at it?
this is called faith..
Originally Posted by zone
where were all the gentiles getting saved in the surrounding nations?
were they there looking at the serpent also?
could you clarify?
ty dear.
A
okay...what about this though mike - go to the calling (which yesterday you said you had the scoop on, so i should be patient until i see that - because that can shut this whole thing down for me...if i see that calling part...that the calling is not of God also, or is man's part in it.....i dunno
):
Acts 3:9
New International Version (©1984)
The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."
English Standard Version (©2001)
For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
For the promise is for you and for your children, and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
International Standard Version (©2012)
For this promise belongs to you and your children, as well as to all those who are distant, whom the Lord our God may call to himself."
i'll try not to ask you many more questions, because i really only have a few
this would be one of them.
and how to discuss it without using terms from some denoms that sidetrack everything before it gets going.
anyways....mebee i go to News and Poetry for a spell.
):Acts 3:9
New International Version (©1984)
The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."
English Standard Version (©2001)
For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
For the promise is for you and for your children, and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
International Standard Version (©2012)
For this promise belongs to you and your children, as well as to all those who are distant, whom the Lord our God may call to himself."
i'll try not to ask you many more questions, because i really only have a few
this would be one of them.
and how to discuss it without using terms from some denoms that sidetrack everything before it gets going.
anyways....mebee i go to News and Poetry for a spell.
So now we gots a problem huh? whos calling who? And there is alot more text in that same order.
That was not acts 3:9 but look at it in context and you will see who the called are.
Acts 2:[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were cut to the hear(HolySpirits conviction,grace), and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive(hadnt been regenerated yet)the gift of the Holy Spirit. [SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call. the promise here isnt saying only those called but as many(which is all) the promise is to. In otherwords it is saying the promise is for everyone.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved(most versions say "save yourself) from this perverse generation.” [SUP]41Then they who gladly received His word [/SUP]were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.
All are called John 1:[SUP]9 [/SUP]That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
Last edited: