Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man
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E
Has nothing to do with this thread.
But it is easy to answer.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
Now what is our answer to it? What does God tell us to do for our enemies? Love them..Not hate them. Not give them tons of money or land, Not kill other people for them. but to love them and GIVE THEM THE GOSPEL.
I have quite a few jews in my church, who used to follow one of those things.. Now they follow Christ. That is what we are supposed to do!
But it is easy to answer.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
Now what is our answer to it? What does God tell us to do for our enemies? Love them..Not hate them. Not give them tons of money or land, Not kill other people for them. but to love them and GIVE THEM THE GOSPEL.
I have quite a few jews in my church, who used to follow one of those things.. Now they follow Christ. That is what we are supposed to do!
C
Re: Sover"eignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man
zone - black
and you are pretending to be a loving mediator? --Did not say I was being a mediator here. My love is to show that one's faith is not nullified by limited atonement. My love is to show them that their hope in a coming Savior is not a dead hope. My love is to tell them not to give up, all is not lost in their walk.
but willing to post such an absurdity? --No, just a logical fact of logical deduction.
purleeze.
the politiking and such is folly and evidence of not knowing what's being said.
more precisely, not caring. --Oh, but I do care when faith and hope is said to be folly.
zone - black
and you are pretending to be a loving mediator? --Did not say I was being a mediator here. My love is to show that one's faith is not nullified by limited atonement. My love is to show them that their hope in a coming Savior is not a dead hope. My love is to tell them not to give up, all is not lost in their walk.
but willing to post such an absurdity? --No, just a logical fact of logical deduction.
purleeze.
the politiking and such is folly and evidence of not knowing what's being said.
more precisely, not caring. --Oh, but I do care when faith and hope is said to be folly.
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E
Re: Sover"eignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man
Elin, if you are going to twist my words. then do not bother responding to me. I never stated this.. I stated it happened. i did not state I gave them an excuse. Your the one who did that.. when you stated they killed us (infering why not kill them)
non responsive
whats going on? I have someone saying it was ok for us to kill them, then condemn me because they THINK I believe it is alright to kill gentiles.
Thats what is going on..
Interesting that not once has she (or anyone else) acknowledged that those things went on.
I admit,, people who claim to te the church are killing gentiles now, And I condemn their actions as not from God.
It would be nice if SOMEONE would admit for hundreds of years. the same exact thing happened to the Jews.
Elin, if you are going to twist my words. then do not bother responding to me. I never stated this.. I stated it happened. i did not state I gave them an excuse. Your the one who did that.. when you stated they killed us (infering why not kill them)
non responsive
whats going on? I have someone saying it was ok for us to kill them, then condemn me because they THINK I believe it is alright to kill gentiles.
Thats what is going on..
Interesting that not once has she (or anyone else) acknowledged that those things went on.
I admit,, people who claim to te the church are killing gentiles now, And I condemn their actions as not from God.
It would be nice if SOMEONE would admit for hundreds of years. the same exact thing happened to the Jews.
C
Quote:
I think he is being cryptic about the logic.
I think he is saying that if one is born again, he doesn't think in those terms after his rebirth
because his heart has been so dramatically changed,
and that kind of thinking seems reasonable only to the unregenerate.
To those who are born again, that kind of thinking is contradictory to what is in their hearts.
That thinking seems reasonable only to those who want to justify their unbelief.
So he is asking if that is what is in your heart, which is why you think that way.
I think he is being cryptic about the logic.
I think he is saying that if one is born again, he doesn't think in those terms after his rebirth
because his heart has been so dramatically changed,
and that kind of thinking seems reasonable only to the unregenerate.
To those who are born again, that kind of thinking is contradictory to what is in their hearts.
That thinking seems reasonable only to those who want to justify their unbelief.
So he is asking if that is what is in your heart, which is why you think that way.
Some wonderful people come on the internet to websites such as these. But at the same time some come on who see themselves as teachers/guiding lights/they believe they know much. They are here to guide others with the wisdom/learning they have achieved. If you accept what they want to teach you, you are fine, but if you don't........
Prepare to meet thy doom
Prepare to meet thy doom
Re: Sover"eignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man
Nor did I state it was an excuse.
Ah, now we're down to it.
I didn't state it, you inferred it.
And you are upset because although I also didn't state it, you think I inferred it about you.
So you get to infer about me, but I don't get to infer about you (which I did not do anyway).
Looks like a double standard to me.
Why are you harboring centuries-old grievances?
Do you believe in the forgiveness Jesus taught, or not?
And by the same ridiculous standard, do you acknowledge all the grievances zone listed here?
I'm thinkin' Mt 7:3-5, 6:12 here.
Nor did I state it was an excuse.
Ah, now we're down to it.
I didn't state it, you inferred it.
And you are upset because although I also didn't state it, you think I inferred it about you.
So you get to infer about me, but I don't get to infer about you (which I did not do anyway).
Looks like a double standard to me.
Why are you harboring centuries-old grievances?
Do you believe in the forgiveness Jesus taught, or not?
And by the same ridiculous standard, do you acknowledge all the grievances zone listed here?
I'm thinkin' Mt 7:3-5, 6:12 here.
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Some wonderful people come on the internet to websites such as these. But at the same time some come on who see themselves as teachers/guiding lights/they believe they know much. They are here to guide others with the wisdom/learning they have achieved. If you accept what they want to teach you, you are fine, but if you don't........
Prepare to meet thy doom
Prepare to meet thy doom
go start a thread on the plain reading of scripture which says Jesus is not God.
you have some followers.
they'll join you.
some of us are benefiting from Elin's work.
Re: Sover"eignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man
she corrected what YOU insist she said.
but you missed it, and are not looking for the post.
you're making clanging noises and wanting to discredit her, for no reason other than you don't like her studies.
go find the post where she responded to your first alarmed misunderstanding of what she said.
she corrected what YOU insist she said.
but you missed it, and are not looking for the post.
you're making clanging noises and wanting to discredit her, for no reason other than you don't like her studies.
go find the post where she responded to your first alarmed misunderstanding of what she said.
Re: Sover"eignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man
find a single post where ANYONE EVER said the jews can not be saved.
either pay attention, or stop with the very false accusations you are whining about elsewhere, ok chris?
awww.....that's good.
but show where anyone has said there is no hope for people and that faith doesn't matter...OR IS FOLLY.
no one has said that. that's BLASPHEMY
if they have - FIND IT....show me someone saying no hope no faith...that it's folly. GO GET IT.
but you guys are undermining a thread that you don't care about and don't believe.
so why are you here?
you don't even understand what's being said.
evidenced by what i just responded to.
find a single post where ANYONE EVER said the jews can not be saved.
either pay attention, or stop with the very false accusations you are whining about elsewhere, ok chris?
awww.....that's good.
but show where anyone has said there is no hope for people and that faith doesn't matter...OR IS FOLLY.
no one has said that. that's BLASPHEMY
if they have - FIND IT....show me someone saying no hope no faith...that it's folly. GO GET IT.
but you guys are undermining a thread that you don't care about and don't believe.
so why are you here?
you don't even understand what's being said.
evidenced by what i just responded to.
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Who is the author of jimmydiggs comments that I was trying to explain?
And I corrected my poor choice of words in interpreting someone else's meaning HERE.
So why are you still harping on it?
Okay, I'm just gonna' lay it out there. . .sermon time:
Do I detect a polluted fountainn of self-pity from which some are drinking?
There is way too much grudging and bitterness over long-past grievances.
I don't see the same standard being applied to the past grievances committed by the aggrieved,
as I do to the past grievances committed to the aggrieved.
That kind of self-focus, self-pity, grudge and bitterness have the same root--the disobedience of unforgiveness.
That's why Christians are commanded to forgive 70 X 7 times, to weed out the roots of ungodliness.
It's long past time to give us this self-focus, self-pity, grudge and bitterness over long-past grievances.
It's long past time to stop trying to guilt those of today for events of the past.
It's long past time to give up the attitude of entitlement to special status because of the past.
None of that is Christian.
It's long past time to let go of this wrong-headed cultural thinking, and come into NT thinking.
And frankly, that stuff is really gettin' old.
And I corrected my poor choice of words in interpreting someone else's meaning HERE.
So why are you still harping on it?
Okay, I'm just gonna' lay it out there. . .sermon time:
Do I detect a polluted fountainn of self-pity from which some are drinking?
There is way too much grudging and bitterness over long-past grievances.
I don't see the same standard being applied to the past grievances committed by the aggrieved,
as I do to the past grievances committed to the aggrieved.
That kind of self-focus, self-pity, grudge and bitterness have the same root--the disobedience of unforgiveness.
That's why Christians are commanded to forgive 70 X 7 times, to weed out the roots of ungodliness.
It's long past time to give us this self-focus, self-pity, grudge and bitterness over long-past grievances.
It's long past time to stop trying to guilt those of today for events of the past.
It's long past time to give up the attitude of entitlement to special status because of the past.
None of that is Christian.
It's long past time to let go of this wrong-headed cultural thinking, and come into NT thinking.
And frankly, that stuff is really gettin' old.
C
Elin - black
Who is the author of jimmydiggs comments that I was trying to explain? Your explanation is in question, not Jimmy's words.
And I corrected my poor choice of words in interpreting someone else's meaning HERE.
In place of 'regenerated' in that post, you said, "do not believe in God's word regarding election". Then that would be saying I do not agree with you because I understand that Scripture says that those who are in Christ are God's elect, as oppose to the Hebrews having been God's chosen. I agree with Scripture when it says that: I will call those who were not my people, my people. We are elected as God's people because we come to Him through Christ, not because He has chosen a select few to receive salvation and a vast amount to damnation. So, yes!!! I believe God's word regarding election. What I do not accept is 'limited atonement' and how it makes God the cause of wickedness in order to have those He did not chose to be damned. Yet more, how that God said the wickedness of the wicked will be judged and how the only logical conclusion to that matter of 'limited atonement' will have God judging Himself for having people commit wickedness so that they can damned.
I believe 'whosoever shall believe' will be given everlasting life. It saddens the heart to know that faith and hope is considered vanity when all-in-all one will be damned no matter what, just because He was preordained to be such. It saddens still more to know that one who is considered destined to Heaven under 'limit atonement' can be even a Hitler and still make it to Heaven if he was preordained to be such. Where is the purpose of faith in this theology?
So why are you still harping on it? --For the simply fact that in your explanation you said that I was un-regenerated and went as far as saying, when explaining what you were explaining, I did not believe what Scripture says based on your theology.
Okay, I'm just gonna' lay it out there. . .sermon time:
Do I detect a polluted fountainn of self-pity from which some are drinking? --What does one feeling sorry for themselves have to do with 'limited atonement'? Why would I feel sorry for myself?
There is way too much grudging and bitterness over long-past grievances. --Seeking to find out why you would condemn me is considered 'grudging and bitterness'? You grieved me in saying I was un-regenerated, but yet I stand at fault for seeking why I was doomed?
I don't see the same standard being applied to the past grievances committed by the aggrieved,
as I do to the past grievances committed to the aggrieved. --I have cursed you?
That kind of self-focus, self-pity, grudge and bitterness have the same root--the disobedience of unforgiveness. --Forgiveness is given to those who ask for it. Still waiting for that request. And I assume that taking Jesus' place on His throne of judgment that He will be in a need for such a request also.
That's why Christians are commanded to forgive 70 X 7 times, to weed out the roots of ungodliness. --Still waiting.
Sermon by Chris:
It's long past time to give us this self-focus, self-pity, grudge and bitterness over long-past grievances.
It's long past time to stop trying to guilt those of today for events of the past.
It's long past time to give up the attitude of entitlement to special status because of the past.
None of that is Christian.
It's long past time to let go of this wrong-headed cultural thinking, and come into NT thinking.
And frankly, that stuff is really gettin' old.
Who is the author of jimmydiggs comments that I was trying to explain? Your explanation is in question, not Jimmy's words.
And I corrected my poor choice of words in interpreting someone else's meaning HERE.
In place of 'regenerated' in that post, you said, "do not believe in God's word regarding election". Then that would be saying I do not agree with you because I understand that Scripture says that those who are in Christ are God's elect, as oppose to the Hebrews having been God's chosen. I agree with Scripture when it says that: I will call those who were not my people, my people. We are elected as God's people because we come to Him through Christ, not because He has chosen a select few to receive salvation and a vast amount to damnation. So, yes!!! I believe God's word regarding election. What I do not accept is 'limited atonement' and how it makes God the cause of wickedness in order to have those He did not chose to be damned. Yet more, how that God said the wickedness of the wicked will be judged and how the only logical conclusion to that matter of 'limited atonement' will have God judging Himself for having people commit wickedness so that they can damned.
I believe 'whosoever shall believe' will be given everlasting life. It saddens the heart to know that faith and hope is considered vanity when all-in-all one will be damned no matter what, just because He was preordained to be such. It saddens still more to know that one who is considered destined to Heaven under 'limit atonement' can be even a Hitler and still make it to Heaven if he was preordained to be such. Where is the purpose of faith in this theology?
So why are you still harping on it? --For the simply fact that in your explanation you said that I was un-regenerated and went as far as saying, when explaining what you were explaining, I did not believe what Scripture says based on your theology.
Okay, I'm just gonna' lay it out there. . .sermon time:
Do I detect a polluted fountainn of self-pity from which some are drinking? --What does one feeling sorry for themselves have to do with 'limited atonement'? Why would I feel sorry for myself?
There is way too much grudging and bitterness over long-past grievances. --Seeking to find out why you would condemn me is considered 'grudging and bitterness'? You grieved me in saying I was un-regenerated, but yet I stand at fault for seeking why I was doomed?
I don't see the same standard being applied to the past grievances committed by the aggrieved,
as I do to the past grievances committed to the aggrieved. --I have cursed you?
That kind of self-focus, self-pity, grudge and bitterness have the same root--the disobedience of unforgiveness. --Forgiveness is given to those who ask for it. Still waiting for that request. And I assume that taking Jesus' place on His throne of judgment that He will be in a need for such a request also.
That's why Christians are commanded to forgive 70 X 7 times, to weed out the roots of ungodliness. --Still waiting.
Sermon by Chris:
It's long past time to give us this self-focus, self-pity, grudge and bitterness over long-past grievances.
It's long past time to stop trying to guilt those of today for events of the past.
It's long past time to give up the attitude of entitlement to special status because of the past.
None of that is Christian.
It's long past time to let go of this wrong-headed cultural thinking, and come into NT thinking.
And frankly, that stuff is really gettin' old.
C
Re: Sover"eignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man
zone - black
find a single post where ANYONE EVER said the jews can not be saved.
either pay attention, or stop with the very false accusations you are whining about elsewhere, ok chris?
--I am not talking about a Jew or Gentile, I am talking about 'limited atonement' which says that one's faith and hope is useless because if you are doomed you are doomed. What is false is to say that God is the reason and cause of wickedness because He wanted you to be doomed. This would have God judging Himself, seeing that people will be judged by their works (dos). I would understand that as false. However, Truth is, 'whosoever shall believe will be given everlasting live'. He who comes after me, I will never cast aside.
awww.....that's good.
but show where anyone has said there is no hope for people and that faith doesn't matter...OR IS FOLLY.
no one has said that. that's BLASPHEMY
--God has selected the elect for salvation, so says the 'limited atonement'. But, we are told the elect are those who in Christ. We Christians are the ones given to Jesus by God, and therefore are the elect. But to say 'limited atonement' then one has to conclude that no matter your heart desires and how you come to God with a contrite heart and did what was commanded by Jesus, namely: love, if you are destined to hell, then to hell you shall go. That is the only conclusion one can come to when you say God has pre-ordained every one to their final destination. Where then is there any hope in faith?
if they have - FIND IT....show me someone saying no hope no faith...that it's folly. GO GET IT. --'limited atonement'
but you guys are undermining a thread that you don't care about and don't believe. --Of course I do not believe. But I will let others know that their faith and hope is not lost on a theory which says your eternity is already decided.
so why are you here? --But I will let others know that their faith and hope is not lost on a theory which says your eternity is already decided when it says come to me and I will be your Shepherd to led you Home.
you don't even understand what's being said. --Oh contrarily, I do.
evidenced by what i just responded to.
zone - black
find a single post where ANYONE EVER said the jews can not be saved.
either pay attention, or stop with the very false accusations you are whining about elsewhere, ok chris?
--I am not talking about a Jew or Gentile, I am talking about 'limited atonement' which says that one's faith and hope is useless because if you are doomed you are doomed. What is false is to say that God is the reason and cause of wickedness because He wanted you to be doomed. This would have God judging Himself, seeing that people will be judged by their works (dos). I would understand that as false. However, Truth is, 'whosoever shall believe will be given everlasting live'. He who comes after me, I will never cast aside.
awww.....that's good.
but show where anyone has said there is no hope for people and that faith doesn't matter...OR IS FOLLY.
no one has said that. that's BLASPHEMY
--God has selected the elect for salvation, so says the 'limited atonement'. But, we are told the elect are those who in Christ. We Christians are the ones given to Jesus by God, and therefore are the elect. But to say 'limited atonement' then one has to conclude that no matter your heart desires and how you come to God with a contrite heart and did what was commanded by Jesus, namely: love, if you are destined to hell, then to hell you shall go. That is the only conclusion one can come to when you say God has pre-ordained every one to their final destination. Where then is there any hope in faith?
if they have - FIND IT....show me someone saying no hope no faith...that it's folly. GO GET IT. --'limited atonement'
but you guys are undermining a thread that you don't care about and don't believe. --Of course I do not believe. But I will let others know that their faith and hope is not lost on a theory which says your eternity is already decided.
so why are you here? --But I will let others know that their faith and hope is not lost on a theory which says your eternity is already decided when it says come to me and I will be your Shepherd to led you Home.
you don't even understand what's being said. --Oh contrarily, I do.
evidenced by what i just responded to.
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